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Blindfight

voidmaster in need of fellowship fixing

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We are completely new to RT and intended to play a few sessions to get an idea. It turns out to be fun. :) Instead of starting a new campaign, we are continuing the current one.

 

I got fellowship 23 AND -10 in formal situations... Hindsight, it was a bad idea. We are doing a lot of social and formal situations, and that's actually what I prefer too, but we seemed to need a combat guy

 

How to improve though? I don't have to be THE most social around, I just want to be useful in social gatherings and with investigating information trails and the like.

 

Boosting fellowship with XP is obvious, though I'm not sure if I can do my role well enough if I pay too much XP on fellowship. What other options do I have? what kind of Gear?

I intend to do a lot of favors for people, so they might be more understanding towards my unsocial way of talking :P

 

I could use some help with any way to get this guy fit in, be it (in part) through gear, or RP advice.

 

The other players are a missionary, navigator, explorator. The rogue trader is an NPC who is never around. He gave us a ship and directs us through missions. So far these missions have shown that he is a lazy guy and we are the ones to clean up his mess.
 

Short background:

Deathworld -> Scapegrace -> Criminal -> Pressganged -> Endurance

 

He enrolled into the Imperial Navy as an ace pilot. He never was much of a talker, and never needed to on his home planet. Although he is good at the required skills for the job, he fails to see the hidden agenda's around him. Hidden messages and subtle threats were never part of his life before. Unsurprisingly, people take notice and take advantage. At the direction of someone else, his captain send him on "classified" personal missions. He recognized too late that they were illegal. Only after confronting his captain with this he learned how only he would pay for the crimes, and none would blow back on him. After that it only got worse and it ended in him being convicted for extrajudicial killing and theft. When he finally got free, they had no longer power over him though he was out of grace and in the lowest part of society.

He learned there that he needs strong friends he can trust to survive. He hopes to find this among his current collegues, and will help to build their strengths too. He also intends to repair the damage to his name.

To this day he does not know who ordered/paid his superior for these missions. He intends to find out by following the lead of "who had the most to gain?"

 

 

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The GM shouldn't be doing straight Fellowship, Charm and other social tests vs. flat/unmodified target numbers.  While a character's fellowship may be low, he/she should be getting boosts when dealing with persons and in situations that are better suited to the character's background/concept.  Hence, the VM with 25 Fel should have his/her command/charm tests at +20-30 when dealing with members of the crew and/or other void born.

 

For me, RP > everything

 

So, even low fellowship PC's can shine in social situations when they RP it properly.  

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Social combat is a big part of Rogue Trader, but sometimes the guy you count on in order to steer your kilometers-long voidship through a clearance of fifteen meters sometimes just cannot talk to people. What I do with low Fellowship based PCs is similar to what Traejun proposed, but I also allow them in appropriate circumstances to use a Knowledge skill to draw upon their knowledge of famous victories, which can represent their knowledge of famous campaigns or other pieces of information that can impress people with the uncouth but seasoned campaigner.

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but I also allow them in appropriate circumstances to use a Knowledge skill to draw upon their knowledge of famous victories, which can represent their knowledge of famous campaigns or other pieces of information that can impress people with the uncouth but seasoned campaigner.

 

Brilliant.  I'm stealing this idea.

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but I also allow them in appropriate circumstances to use a Knowledge skill to draw upon their knowledge of famous victories, which can represent their knowledge of famous campaigns or other pieces of information that can impress people with the uncouth but seasoned campaigner.

 

Brilliant.  I'm stealing this idea.

 

That idea is actually straight from the books. Into the Storm section on social interactions, if I am not mistaken.

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While giving RP bonuses to social skills may work in some cases, it does devalue the investment of those characters that actually spent XP to be good at social skills (unless you give them the same bonuses, in effect making all tests easier by a few degrees).

 

Would you give RP bonuses to combat stats to somebody who tanked his combat abilities if a particular combat is suited to his concept/background?

 

The way I see it: you ahve low fellowhip, and further options that lower it, you made a conscious choice play a character that's not good at social interaction and it should be RPed as such, or rebuilt.

Edited by LordBlades

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Thanks for the advice! I didn't think circumstantial bonusses for commanding my own crew could give me that much bonus, we never had that situation this far because we havent been in a ship fight yet and did everything else ourselves.

I think its a great idea to use his knowledge and skills to offset his social awkwardness. That's how real life often works too: If you are really good at what you do, people tend to be a bit more forgiving towards your otherwise socially unacceptable behaviour. Being a convicted criminal still is a difficult thing to ignore though, even though I have paid for my transgressions already :P Regardless if I find a way to clear my name eventually, it obviously still puts me at the disadvantage of having to prove my worth to each new highly social crowd, but that comes with playing such a character.

 

The basic thing I take away from this is this: I still can be of value in such situations, I just might not be the best person for it obviously :)

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Depends on the "social situation". Walk into a bar on Foothold an announce you were jailed by the Imperium and the response is likely to be "Yes? And?".

 

Ultimately, the comments above are correct; your fellowship is your ability to be 'charming' or 'charismatic' in a non-specific situation. However, any situation that matters has a context, where you can use your knowledge skills, or gain benefits from appropriate trappings (I think there are some items you can scatter about your apparel which gives you bonuses to fellowship when dealing with specific factions, like the ecclesiarchy).

 

Peer and Good Reputation talents are very useful too; I make a point of allowing thse talents quite readily as elite talents, and I will quite often throw in Peer/Good Reputation/Rival talents as "rewards" (Less so for Rival!) as a result of endeavours, in addition to XP or Profit.

 

For that matter, if worst comes to worst, use the Dynasty's profit factor and socially beat the other side into compliance!

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I'm also of the opinion that you shouldn't be able to just RP well and ignore a downside you chose to have on your character. As was mentioned, you wouldn't give a combat bonus for good RP to a rogue trader or seneschal who is inept at fighting, so why give a social bonus to a combat character who is gruff and not very likable?

Ways to off-set your Fellowship:

  • Purchase Peer and Good Reputation talents. These could be purchased as Elite Advances if unavailable on your chosen career and alternate ranks.
  • Spend XP on Fellowship.
  • Purchase a Pheromone Generator implant (stats in BC, so porting the rarity is really all you need).
  • Spend XP on social skills - even if your base is low you can add on bonuses from high ranks of Charm, Command etc.

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Yeah, I wanted to build my "Ultimate Hot Navigator" character, just to say that I could, and for story bits, and Asteira Volaris does have great Fellowship + Social Skills, but I had to pay out my ass for that Fellowship. Navigators are in the same boat as Void Masters, and while I can argue both how Fellowship is and isn't an Appearance stat, and I use it as thus, while telling others it's wrong, paying her Fellowship up to 51 (I "penalized" myself by forcing a good stat (43) into Fellowship) was not cheap. I justified it by saying that she was raised among "nobility" in order to associate with nobility, and her low mutation count allows her to not throw up flags. So yeah, while it fit the plot of the character, it cost a lot, and it could've gone to other stuff, maybe more useful stuff, as she is lacking in combat-useful traits. The "Brad Pitt as Wedge Antilles" should likewise cost what my "Kate Upton as Nav Scion" did.

 

I'm not trying to say that's specifically what you are trying to do, and you could alleviate some pain just by working on the skills (+20 can be a lot). Otherwise, it might just not be what your character does. Joker doesn't do social functions; he pilots the Normandy like no one else can, and wise-cracks over the radio to the schmoes who can't hit him, which is good when you are made out of glass and puns. :lol:

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I think there just comes a point where you have to admit a character isn't a face, I mean lets face it at fellowship 23 the best your guy is ever going to do from pure characteristics is 43 which is still mediocre as hell for a face character. How much xp do you want to bury in being mediocre at something instead of awful? If the party already has a face leave the social **** to him.

 

What I'm saying is play to your strengths don't struggle to be average at one thing when you can easily be awesome at something else.

 

Yeah, I wanted to build my "Ultimate Hot Navigator" character, just to say that I could, and for story bits, and Asteira Volaris does have great Fellowship + Social Skills, but I had to pay out my ass for that Fellowship. Navigators are in the same boat as Void Masters, and while I can argue both how Fellowship is and isn't an Appearance stat, and I use it as thus, while telling others it's wrong, paying her Fellowship up to 51 (I "penalized" myself by forcing a good stat (43) into Fellowship) was not cheap.

 

Really going down that road with a Navigator is even worse because even when you build them up it can still all be taken away from you with the wrong mutation. One roll of the dice and over a thousand XP circles the toilet.

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Yep, it's true, but her Toughness is pretty good, so it shouldn't roll in often. Mostly, she's a story-character, before she's a game character (i wrote her stats just to see if I could, doing it fairly; worked rather well), so she won't mutate further if I don't want her too, which helps my weak case. So far, the mutations are few; one good, and one cosmetic she efforts to hide (even the romance interest she is sleeping with hasn't seen her without her gloves on). It goes well with a story of her father and the AdMech genetors associated with him trying to "clean up" the genetic material, as degradation and debilitation were becoming a problem. Her father, Novator Daedalus Volaris, looks like Edric the Guild Navigator in Sci-Fi Channels very good remake of Dune Messiah + Children of Dune, so he's VERY mutated, though not crippled. Others of House Volaris have been worse off, and it's a problem all Navigators fear, as the strength of the Nav gene depends on such rampant inbreeding. She is the beta subject of an experiment to "reset" the gene code, more to what it must have been like before the Imperium. Will it work? Will it hold? I don't know. She has a child now, and they are waiting to see if her "cleaned up genes" programming passed on, or if she was a fluke (hopefully not a short-term fluke, herself, as she's only late 20s'). Lots of pressure, but fun to write about, in the little snippets I can make myself do.

 

It could all flop, but the House is small, so they can, sort of, afford to try this, hoping it isn't heresy. If it doesn't work, then the House is out a lot, but the NN, as a whole, isn't hurt, and Lord-Captain Korvallus COULD get new Navigators, if he were silly enough to allow it to divest him of their aide.

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Heya,

 

My Navigator has poor fellowship, because he's a Navigator.

 

I still push hard in social situations though. I use Intimidate a lot (based on Intelligence/Willpower per GM's discretion for roleplay purposes, strictly social intimidation). Peer talents come in handy. Talented (insert name) comes in handy. You don't need a bunch of them. Just a few that are obvious to you. Plus, roleplay should count--for me, a Navigator, my fellowship is not bad when talking with people of the Imperium who obviously know what a Navigator is, and they are beyond peers of typical administration, government bodies, etc. Some situations are not even really fellowship situations, sometimes, it's all about a display of strength, willpower, or cunning. Use that stat instead of fellowship. For example, I use intelligence skills like lore skills, knowledge stuff, and roll that instead of just rolling a fellowship score.

 

So an example, if your Void Master is talking with a crew from another ship, don't roll Fellowship for certain checks, talk with your GM, and rather, use something more suitable, like your Willpower or Intelligence, based on a skill that is relevant (pilot, etc).

 

If your Void Master is talking with imperial nobility, he has nothing really to do with Fellowship, Willpoewr, or Intelligence really. But he could speak with strength and willpower, if your GM approves the use of it. Maybe your words are a little more impactful if spoken with force, which is like intimidation, using strength as the skill check.

 

Very best,

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Fel 23 is really really bad. Its a human with the manners of an ork, in this case. And sadly not a character that any sane Rogue Trader or some such would bring to a gathering of nobles or to any other place which requires "civilized" behavior. But there are social situations which are not based on social niceties after all, Intimidate is a good skill for such occasions.

And like others mentioned, Peer and Good Rep talents can provide a certain boost with certain groups where your character is more at home.

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Fel 23 is really really bad. Its a human with the manners of an ork, in this case.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but at 23 he's inordinately the kind of cross eyed ugly stammering chud who probably has a hard time picking up chicks in the bar despite the fact he's a billionaire. You know in alot of rpgs when you're a GM and you've got your party of dirt faced murder hobos and one of them wants to get laid at the local tavern you're probably just going to throw a succubus at them if anything? Well normally in RT I actually make it a pretty easy proposition because of the social and economic status of the party, but if I had a player with a 23 Fel I'd actually make him roll because that's just an awful awful characteristic score I'll admit.

 

To put it in perspective the typical **** kicking colonial pig farmer has a higher Fel than that if I recall going by the NPC profiles in the core rulebook.

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(...)

 

To put it in perspective the typical **** kicking colonial pig farmer has a higher Fel than that if I recall going by the NPC profiles in the core rulebook.

 

 

Checked: 23 Fel is precisly the level of Warp Witch, and 1 higher than Renegade :) (run-the-mill colonist got 30)

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Fel 23 is really really bad.

It really isn't.

The average imperial citizen has Fel 30. Fel 23 is not exceptionally bad, any more than Fel 37 is exceptionally good.

Also worth keeping in mind is that a rules-wise, a character with Fel 23 and training in the relevant social skill is as likely to succeed as someone with Fel 46 and no training. And most people aren't trained.

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Personally, I have people play to their strengths. If you don't dedicate yourself to Fellowship, you're basically not going to be able to out-talk the real talkers - you may be able to win an argument against some backwards redneck, but you shouldn't even try to go up against trained negotiators, diplomats and so on. Likewise, if you're not a trained swordsman, you shouldn't go around challenging space marines to duels.

 

Therefore, in a social situation, as a socially retarded character, I would either spend my time talking to NPCs that are even worse off than I am, who would be impressed by other thing I have to offer, or who respond well to intimidation. Otherwise, I would simply hover around the more social characters, watch out for danger as a bodyguard, advise them with my lore skills, spy on the enemy with my high perception, or otherwise try to further the overall goals of the party. This isn't always possible, but you can't win every time.

 

That's my 0.2 thrones, anyway.

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Fel 23 is really really bad.

It really isn't.

The average imperial citizen has Fel 30. Fel 23 is not exceptionally bad, any more than Fel 37 is exceptionally good.

Also worth keeping in mind is that a rules-wise, a character with Fel 23 and training in the relevant social skill is as likely to succeed as someone with Fel 46 and no training. And most people aren't trained.

 

Yes... The Imperial average is generally between 25-30, as per Dark Heresy descriptions of various levels of characteristics. Scores above 35 is actually exceptional in the Imperium. And you have to remember that that 25-30 is for an average factorum worker or some hive scum.

To put it in perspective, the average Ork Boy has 21 Fel... So 23 Fel is really really bad, especially in RT where the standard bonus to each Characteristic is +25, which signifies the exceptional characters one plays in RT.

23 Fel is bad, just as having say 23 Int would describe a character who is exceptionally dumb even by Imperium standards.

 

But playing a char like that can also be rewarding. Roleplay trumps rollplay... Unless people feel like cheesing away their weaknesses that is.

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Uhm...Just a question: How did you even get a fellowship of 23? Stat guidelines call for character to roll 2d10+25 for every stat!

Even with a -5 fel thrown in somewhere you would have really had to have rolled awful! The reason I ask is; Any character serving on the command crew of a Rogue Trader vessel is NOT average! That's why they start out as 5000xp (Equivalent) characters! Most Navigators are Noble born so they actually get an initial +5 bonus to fellowship. So an average roll would net you (6+5[actual roll]+5[homeworld]+25) = 41. This is well into the exceptional range. Couple that with average/descent physical characteristics (S + A) (Because what many people think of as "Good looking" is actually more a matter of fitness than charisma) and your "Kate Upton, Hot Navigator" seems perfectly Viable to me! Throw in some charm and Contortionist to help with your promiscuity and, well, you get the Idea

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It's totally possible he rolled a 2 and then had origin path options that made him even worse, I have a character who rolled really badly for Int and then took an additional penalty for being from a frontier world and he ended up with a 27.

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Uhm...Just a question: How did you even get a fellowship of 23? Stat guidelines call for character to roll 2d10+25 for every stat!

Some of us use point buy - hell, I'd never play Rogue Trader with rolled stats. With a -5 penalty from your homeworld and the right mutation, hitting 15 ain't that hard.

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Fel 23 is really really bad.

It really isn't.

The average imperial citizen has Fel 30. Fel 23 is not exceptionally bad, any more than Fel 37 is exceptionally good.

Yes... The Imperial average is generally between 25-30, as per Dark Heresy descriptions of various levels of characteristics. Scores above 35 is actually exceptional in the Imperium.
"Somewhat above average" is not "exceptional".

 

And you have to remember that that 25-30 is for an average factorum worker or some hive scum.

Yes. An average, normal person. Around half the people in the Imperium will have lower Fellowship scores. Most of them aren't grunting, poo-flinging barbarians.

 

To put it in perspective, the average Ork Boy has 21 Fel... So 23 Fel is really really bad,

By what standard? Orks work together surprisingly well. They are not all complete social retards with regards to other orks. Obviously racial and cultural differences will make an ork boy nearly incapable of interacting well socially with your typical human, but in game terms that's due to big penalties, not just base ability.

 

especially in RT where the standard bonus to each Characteristic is +25, which signifies the exceptional characters one plays in RT.

Exactly. Player characters are exceptional. Fel 23 is bad for a player character. That's a given. But it's not what we're talking about. The claim in this thread is that a Fel 23 character is pretty much hopless in a social situation compared to a normal person. Which doesn't make sense.

 

23 Fel is bad, just as having say 23 Int would describe a character who is exceptionally dumb even by Imperium standards.

The average imperial citizen in Dark Heresy has Int 20...

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Yeah, the whole thing with anything below 40+ Characteristics being unacceptable is really the result of power creep. +0 Tests are meant to be Challenging, but somewhere along the way, the +0 Test is the test that judges whether you're useless or not.

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Use Intimidate. That's all you can do to contribute to social combat.

 

Or invest in Elite Advances. Do NOT go the route of expensive stat increases. With Charm+20, you can contribute. It's not great but you can. Specialize in one social skill besides intimidation.

 

Alex

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