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reedhackman

Pyre of the False Gods & Supported by the Smith

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If I have Pyre of the False Gods in my discard pile and I used the event Supported by the Smith to put it (and probably some 0 cost location but that is beside the point), would the Supported by the Smith then be placed on the bottom of my deck or does it stay on my discard pile?

 

Also if I have Pyre of the False Gods in play and I play a Deathbound event card like the Prince's Plans or Forever Burning, would the deathbound card go to the dead pile or the bottom of my deck?

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Here's my stab at the first one:

 

From the FAQ:

 

Moribund State For Events
When an event card is played during steps 1, 2, or 5 of an action window, unless it enters play as part of the resolution of its effect (e.g. Risen from the Sea), it enters a Moribund state after its resolution and is only actually moved to the discard or dead pile in step 6 of the action window in which it was played. A Moribund event is not considered "in play" and is not "under the command" of the person who played it.

 

Supported by the Smith would go to the bottom of your deck, since the Pyre of the False God enters play during the resolution of the event before it goes moribound and it's effect is a constant passive one that goes into effect immediatly.

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For the second one I think it's a case of conflicting passive effects in which the first player would resolve:

 

 

(4.7) Deathbound Cards with the "deathbound" keyword are only placed in the dead pile when they would otherwise be placed in the discard pile from play.
Event cards that have the deathbound keyword are placed in the dead pile only after being played from hand.

 

Passive Effects Conflict
If two conflicting passive effects would resolve at the same time, the first player always chooses the order in which these effects are resolved.

 

So I guess the first player would resolve it but I'm not sure on the order he should make it. I can see it working out different ways depending on how the moribund rules work. I think it would be the first one because it would start out moribund:discard then the first effect would replace that with moribund:bottom of deck or moribund:dead pile after the first effect took hold then the second effect wouldn't do it's repacement because it's no longer moribund:discard.

 

With that reasoning the first player can decide to trigger the Pyre first resulting in the card at the bottom of your deck or the deathbound first resulting in the card in your dead pile.

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I forget how Deathbound works. Does it change Moribund:Discard to Moribund:Dead or does it just replace the mechanic that puts the card in the discard pile?

 

If it doesn't change the moribund state, then it doesn't conflict with Pyre of the False gods as Pyre does change the Moribund state. ("After you play an event card from your hand, put it on the bottom of your deck instead of discarding it.")

 

I'm pretty sure that Deathbound doesn't replace the Moribund state, but only the destination. Assuming that's the case, it won't conflict with Pyre and the event would go to the bottom of your deck.

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I'm pretty sure that Deathbound doesn't replace the Moribund state, but only the destination. Assuming that's the case, it won't conflict with Pyre and the event would go to the bottom of your deck.

 

I'm not sure what this means? What does it mean to change the destination without changing the Moribund state?

 

All (non-triggered) replacement effects are applied before the card enters moribund in the first place. So, for example, if Doubting Septa ("If Doubting Septa would be killed, instead put it on the bottom of your deck and draw 1 card") is killed, she does not go "moribund:dead pile" before her own ability is factored in to make her "moribund:bottom of deck". Rather, her ability makes the killing effect push her directly into the "moribund:bottom of deck" state instead of the default "moribund:dead pile" state of kill effect.

 

After an event's effects are resolved, it enters the "moribund:discard pile" state y default. Deathbound changes that to "moribund:dead pile" instead, while Pyre simultaneously changes it to "moribund:bottom of deck." So they do conflict and the First Player does indeed get to choose which moribund state it enters (dead pile or bottom of deck).

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I just found the FAQ entry I needed to properly answer the second question:

 

 

(2.5) Simultaneous but Conflicting Entry into the Moribund State
If a character is killed, discarded, and/or returned to a player's hand or deck at exactly the same time, the first player decides which of the destinations applies for the card's Moribund state. (See "What is Moribund?" in section III (page 15) for more information on "Moribund.")

 

In the spirit of clear and concise answers here's my take on the questions:

 

[Q] If I have Pyre of the False Gods in my discard pile and I used the event Supported by the Smith to put it into play, would the Supported by the Smith then be placed on the bottom of my deck or does it go to my discard pile?

[A] Supported by the Smith would go to the bottom of your deck, since the Pyre of the False God enters play during the resolution of the event before it goes moribound and its effect is a constant passive one that goes into effect immediately.

 

[Q] If I have Pyre of the False Gods in play and I play a deathbound event card like the Prince's Plans or Forever Burning, would the deathbound card go to the dead pile or the bottom of my deck?

[A] The first player would decide, the two passive effects conflict and the first player is anointed to resolve them.

[Pyre of the False Gods]: After you play an event card from your hand, put it on the bottom of your deck instead of discarding it.

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I'm pretty sure that Deathbound doesn't replace the Moribund state, but only the destination. Assuming that's the case, it won't conflict with Pyre and the event would go to the bottom of your deck.

 

I'm not sure what this means? What does it mean to change the destination without changing the Moribund state?

 

All (non-triggered) replacement effects are applied before the card enters moribund in the first place. So, for example, if Doubting Septa ("If Doubting Septa would be killed, instead put it on the bottom of your deck and draw 1 card") is killed, she does not go "moribund:dead pile" before her own ability is factored in to make her "moribund:bottom of deck". Rather, her ability makes the killing effect push her directly into the "moribund:bottom of deck" state instead of the default "moribund:dead pile" state of kill effect.

 

After an event's effects are resolved, it enters the "moribund:discard pile" state y default. Deathbound changes that to "moribund:dead pile" instead, while Pyre simultaneously changes it to "moribund:bottom of deck." So they do conflict and the First Player does indeed get to choose which moribund state it enters (dead pile or bottom of deck).

 

 

Eh. It's what happens when the Moribund state isn't really well fleshed out in the FAQ. There's an example of something that needs some more details. We have so much more nuanced an explanation of Moribund on the boards than it does in the FAQ. It's weird.

 

 

I just found the FAQ entry I needed to properly answer the second question:

 

 

(2.5) Simultaneous but Conflicting Entry into the Moribund State

If a character is killed, discarded, and/or returned to a player's hand or deck at exactly the same time, the first player decides which of the destinations applies for the card's Moribund state. (See "What is Moribund?" in section III (page 15) for more information on "Moribund.")

 

In the spirit of clear and concise answers here's my take on the questions:

 

[Q] If I have Pyre of the False Gods in my discard pile and I used the event Supported by the Smith to put it into play, would the Supported by the Smith then be placed on the bottom of my deck or does it go to my discard pile?

[A] Supported by the Smith would go to the bottom of your deck, since the Pyre of the False God enters play during the resolution of the event before it goes moribound and its effect is a constant passive one that goes into effect immediately.

 

[Q] If I have Pyre of the False Gods in play and I play a deathbound event card like the Prince's Plans or Forever Burning, would the deathbound card go to the dead pile or the bottom of my deck?

[A] The first player would decide, the two passive effects conflict and the first player is anointed to resolve them.

[Pyre of the False Gods]: After you play an event card from your hand, put it on the bottom of your deck instead of discarding it.

 

Yea. Looks right.

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