kyo55082
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Everything posted by kyo55082
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Exactly, currently top tier damage dealers (Onar, Drokkotta, Wildfire) can deal roughly 16 damage with an all out attack turn (and no starting strain). Shyla with Electrostaff will dish out 16 damage every turn and can bump it up to 21 damage in an all out attack. an alternative may be to just bump it down to cleave 1 from cleave 2 which will still make it a great weapon and not demoralize the shyla player.
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The Electrostaff is a brokenly Overpowered weapons. Personal I would house rule it to remove the option for cleave 2 and it just always has reach. The base Electrostaff deals 5 damage vs a standard black dice. with the auto cleave 2 this goes up to 7 total damage which is 50% more damage than the best T3 weapons for the same cost.
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well ****... I only read the 2017 FAQ... I will need to take another look at Loku build and see if there is some way to make him on par with the latest released heroes...
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Do not be mistaken that I am ONLY considering averages.... but you are neglecting the dozens of combination of hero class cards to break that 3 damage threshold (Damage tokens from Ko-Tun or Drokkata, Onar's Mutual destruction, Shyla's full sweep, one shot from JAX in combination, loku's recon token, etc...). Many of which can be achieved with the combination of vibroknife or DH-17 on mission 2 rather than waiting until mission 4 and wasting 200-300 credits. you are correct that DH-17 and vibroknife is not better than modded starter except that you can now run 4 heroes with good weapons early game because 2 can have the DH-17 and vibroknife and 2 can have modded starters.... I believe this makes it better, not worse.... especially when you are already advocate for inefficient cost weapons like the A280... Concerning Loku, there are only three possible weapons to even consider. 1. any typical T3 weapon which he gain no synergy over and does not break the important 7-8 damage thresholds, making such a weapon better used elsewhere 2. DDC with plasma cell which I have playing with on 2 occasions on Loku and Vinto who can achieve great synergy with the weapon. Except I still found that at the end it only brought the weapon up to average at best because you cannot ALWAYS/CONSISTANTLY use the triple attack. 3. Loku with a stun weapon, which means he can deny enemy shot entirely (i.e. Jyn 2.0) and still lends added damage for the rest of his team because he does not need to greed the recon tokens for his DDC. Personally, I see options 3 as the far better than option 2 or option 1. my spreadsheet is a wall of numbers but it is a 10 times easier to compare all the weapons together on one sheet rather than trying to compare them between 30 internet tabs of "imperial assault calculator". it also allows you to compare all tiers, ranged weapons, and melee weapons together, rather than dividing it up between 6 different categories. please also remember that my spreadsheet is just the starting point from which situational effects are added and removed. The starting point just reminds you that if something is roughly 30% worse, than you need a lot of situational bonus to make it average let alone better. and if something is 5-10% worse than that could just be my margin or error...
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Damage is vs a single black dice (most average defense) DL-17 has 2.42 average damage, with 2.67 range, 200 credits (assuming guaranteed surge) 2.25 natural damage E-11 has 2.51 average damage, with 4.83 range, 400 credits (assuming guaranteed surge) 2.15 natural damage A280 has 2.75 average damage, with 5.83 range, 600 credits (assume 1 guaranteed surge) 2.4 natural damage Your first 200 credits increase your starting weapons damage from ~1.5ish to 2.4, your next 200 gains you comfortable range on the attack, your last 200 credits gains you +.2 more damage and 1 extra useless range.... from my perspective, DL-17 is a must, E-11 may be worth it going to a none combat oriented hero end game, and A280 is useless. T1 and T2 weapons only have 2 purposes 1. to temporarily increase your damage until you get access to T3 weapons (of which the DL-17 and Vibroknife are king) 2. to get ONE mid tier gun that will eventually go to a less combat oriented hero at the end. (of which the E-11, 434 deathhammer, and others fit) Both of the points above lend all T1 and T2 weapons to be the most cost efficient so you can buy MORE T3 weapons. (there is also a special case of T2 weapons that can become T3 with the right mods like the polarm with vibro generator)
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I think you are woefully undervaluing cost efficient which changes a lot of your ranking. Hero starting weapons only do something like 1.5 average damage against a black dice opponent. The DL-17 and Vibroknife will do 2.5 average damage against black dice for a measly ~100 credit cost since you sell them back at some point. At least to me, increasing my damage by a full point for 100 credits allows me to skip the horrible cost efficiency weapons in T2 and supply all my heroes with T3 weapons by endgame. Additionally, how is the A280 an "A" tier weapon... it has garbage damage (2.75 damage against a black dice) and accuracy counts for very little in a campaign. only with guaranteed surges can you get up to 3.16 average damage against a black dice enemy which can only ON AVERAGE kill 1 regular storm trooper. lastly, you messed up all of Loku's weapon recommendations. He should only use weapons with stun surge options (T-21 or sporting pistol). this allows him to utilize the stun on the weapon in combination with overwatch to interrupt an enemy attack to deny the shot entirely. I have also made my own spreadsheet that includes average damages of all weapons with their cost efficiency. In the link below. You need to scroll down on the left to find the weapons section. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing
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I have extended my analysis to include imperial deployment efficiencies. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing Complete number can be found in the spreadsheet. I think I am reasonably happy with the numbers but again, efficiency only tell one part of the story. The only current issue I have is combining the defense and damage EF which is just a straight addition right now but personally I value defense better on imperials because it delays the rebels more and allows more attacks because your units survived longer. let me know what you think... Notable items: Nexu are amazing because they have autobleed and cunning to help survive. Jet Troopers Elites are your best all around unit with the gold standard toughness plus solid single target damage that does not rely on bleed or stun AT-DP are amazing. they are the toughest imperial and I am currently only counting 1 attack in their damage EF because of the 3 movement. if they can double attack, then they become the best single unit in the game. 0-0-0 is the only great villian because of an auto 1 damage, 1 strain, and bleed with the gold standard toughness. rebels overall have very good defense EF but very low damage EF. overall, I still do not think rebel allies are not worth much because it extends the rounds by adding more activation which reduces the rebel first activation advantage. Deployment Defense EF Damage EF IEF Deployment Defense EF Damage EF IEF Deployment Defense EF Damage EF REF Nexu 4.29 4.06 8.35 0-0-0 5.00 3.80 8.80 Wookie Warrior 6.88 1.94 8.81 Jet Trooper E 5.00 2.85 7.85 Jabba the Hutt 4.17 2.92 7.08 Echo Trooper E 6.67 1.56 8.23 Royal Guard 5.00 2.77 7.77 Maul 4.29 2.77 7.05 C-3PO 5.71 1.91 7.62 Tusken Raider E 5.00 2.50 7.50 Captain Terro 4.64 2.26 6.90 Wookie Warrior E 5.91 1.41 7.32 Royal Guard E 5.56 1.85 7.40 BT-1 4.17 2.57 6.74 R2-D2 6.00 1.25 7.25 AT-DP 5.93 1.34 7.27 Darth Vader 4.85 1.57 6.42 Hera Syndulla 4.38 2.71 7.08 Gamorrean E 5.08 2.19 7.27 Emperor Palp 4.06 2.19 6.25 C1-10P 4.17 2.50 6.67 Tran Hunter E 4.00 3.00 7.00 Bossk 4.17 1.93 6.09 Rebel Saboteur 4.00 2.33 6.33 Riot Troopers E 5.00 2.20 7.20 Royal Champion 3.71 2.28 5.99 Rebel Saboteur E 4.29 2.02 6.31 Riot Troopers 5.00 2.17 7.17 Agent Blaise 3.33 2.50 5.83 Echo Trooper 4.17 2.08 6.25 Sentry Droid E 4.00 3.17 7.17 Greedo 1.88 3.75 5.63 Rebel Trooper 3.75 2.50 6.25 Tran Hunter 4.29 2.86 7.14 Grand Inquisitor 4.17 1.44 5.60 Rebel Trooper E 4.17 2.08 6.25 Jawa Scavenger 3.75 3.33 7.08 Dengar 2.86 2.74 5.60 Alliance Ranger E 4.38 1.80 6.18 Jet Trooper 5.00 1.87 6.87 Boba Fett 4.62 0.83 5.45 Ally Smuggler 3.75 2.29 6.04 Jawa Scavenger E 4.17 2.64 6.81 General Weiss 4.02 0.76 4.77 Alliance Ranger 4.17 1.57 5.74 Heavy Trooper 5.00 1.81 6.81 IG-88 2.78 1.54 4.32 Ahsoka Tano 3.75 1.72 5.47 Storm Troopers E 4.17 2.61 6.78 Kayn Somos 3.00 1.29 4.29 Obi-Wan Kenobi 4.00 1.29 5.29 Gamorrean 5.10 1.67 6.77 General Sorin 2.19 1.22 3.41 Lando 3.81 1.39 5.20 Sentry Droid 4.17 2.50 6.67 Chewbacca 4.00 0.81 4.81 Heavy Trooper E 5.00 1.63 6.63 Luke Skywalker 3.56 1.11 4.67 Nexu E 3.81 2.85 6.66 Leia Organa 2.67 1.93 4.59 Hired Gun 3.21 3.44 6.65 Ally Smuggler E 3.13 1.15 4.27 Probe Droid 4.17 2.48 6.64 Han Solo 2.86 0.94 3.79 Weequay E 4.29 2.32 6.61 Wampa 4.50 2.00 6.50 Tusken Raider 4.00 2.50 6.50 Rancor 5.00 1.48 6.48 Wing Guard E 4.17 2.22 6.38 ISB Infiltrator E 4.29 2.08 6.37 Weequay 4.00 2.25 6.25 ISB Infiltrator 4.00 2.08 6.08 Dewback Rider 4.17 1.92 6.08 Storm Troopers 3.75 2.29 6.04 Probe Droid E 3.50 2.49 5.99 Hired Gun E 3.64 2.29 5.93 Snow Trooper 4.29 1.60 5.89 Snow Trooper E 4.50 1.23 5.73 HK Droid 3.13 2.43 5.56 AT-ST 4.59 0.86 5.45 Imperial Officer 4.06 1.36 5.43 Ugnaught 3.33 2.08 5.42 Wing Guard 3.75 1.87 5.62 Wampa E 3.75 1.56 5.31 Bantha Rider 4.12 0.88 5.00 E-Web Engineer 2.08 2.79 4.88 SC2-M Tank 3.33 1.44 4.77 Ugnaught E 3.50 1.25 4.75 E-Web Engineer E 1.88 2.72 4.60 HK Droid E 2.73 1.82 4.55 Imperial Officer E 2.63 0.75 3.38 Next project will be adding agendas and imperial class decks.
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the damage average is based on a normal attack with no imperial class cards against a single defense dice. it is based on the entire squad attacking (not just a single unit) I am currently factoring in rolling too much surge (a common imperial problem) Additionally, I am factoring in their own surge abilities which I am making some assumptions on. stun = 4 damage, bleed = 3.66 damage, pierce 2 = 1.5 damage. keep in mind my math is not perfect and I am making a lot of assumptions but I think it gives a decent idea for what units are more efficient. I need to work on it some more because a few units are funny like hired guns...
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I did make a simplistic damage analysis of imperial troops on the spreadsheet in the link. This is not 100% accurate, only considers average, and has a lot of other assumptions. its primary purpose was to create an imperial deployment efficiency list to help quantify which units are more effective. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing The imperial efficiency analysis is still in a draft state and is not polished.
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Imperial Assault Campaign Efficiency Analysis
kyo55082 replied to kyo55082's topic in Imperial Assault Campaign
the question I struggle with is the word "often" blocks 2 damage... 1. what percentage of imperial units have +2 surge abilities and/or will an imperial pick units that don't rely on +2 surge (specifically if he is looking to wound jerrod) 2. the majority of +2 surges are pierce 2 is not always useful because the enemy only rolls 1 block. (although, Jerrod specifically could be an exception) 3. how often does an imperial roll extra surge (a common issue in imperial efficiency because they cannot recover a strain with extra surge) I think I will count the number of times an evade would have blocked an extra damage next game to see if I can quantify the number. -
Imperial Assault Campaign Efficiency Analysis
kyo55082 replied to kyo55082's topic in Imperial Assault Campaign
Droid master was 1.5EF and now is 1.19EF: (J4X-7 normal attacks - defenders dice +1 pierce [supporting fire] ) * (6rounds - 1)/6rounds [assume he will not help or attack 1 round] - 2 strain / 6rounds [cost to summon the first time] I am not factoring in J4x-7 health because I am assuming 4 health 0 block = 2 strain (a net zero, and possibly a gain for the rebels). mechanical master is currently: (J4x-7 new focused attack - defenders dice + extra green dice for droid master) * (6rounds - 1)/6rounds [assuming he will not attack 1 round per game] The extra 2 health on Jerrod is added directly into his health pool EF. I am also not taking a 2nd +1 pierce from supporting fire which I probably should add with a (rounds - 2)/rounds modifier. Parry or Mutual progression is currently: 6 blocks / 6rounds [assuming 2 attacks on Jerrod per round over a 3 round period] I am assuming a smart imperial will focus Jerrod hard with high damage attacks and wound him as quickly as possible. This is especially true because Jerrod's rests are extremely efficient at 6 endurance. Leaping slash was 1.51EF and is now 2.08EF: ( 2 yellow dice - 1 black dice + pierce 2 - surge - strain + 2 movement * 0.8 (melee modifier) * (6rounds - 1) / 6rounds [assuming movement is not useful in one attack] ) Multiply everything by (6rounds - 1) / 6rounds assuming he will not attack 1 round per game. I originally calculated based off just getting the strain and +1 damage token but the math is better if I just perform a normal attack. I have not thought about using explosive reflexes to make the imperial miss... I only calculated it with red dice - blue dice. I think I will just keep this for calculations sake. Jerrod is still 2-3EF points above everyone else... -
Imperial Assault Campaign Efficiency Analysis
kyo55082 replied to kyo55082's topic in Imperial Assault Campaign
Golan, exactly, EF tells one part of the story... it by all means does not tell the full picture. synergy, and flexibility are currently neglected which is also why Diala is so low, but that does not mean she is not a great hero. Jyn has a number a very harsh weaknesses, 1. 10 health, 4 endurance with only quickdraw to help defend means she will easily get wounded and suffer from the 3 endurance while wounded 2. nearly every ability only gives her movement or strain back with only a single +1 damage on quickdraw. her source of damage is almost exclusively from her weapon which must be a pistol I believe that these two items stated above makes Jyn a mediocre to under powered hero. EDIT: I have added a lot of minor effects mostly a 0.87 modifier on abilities that an average will not be used 1 round per game. This has definitely evened out most of the efficiency calculations with only a few outlier. the big ones are Jerrod at 10.85 and Saska at 3.67, both calculations look accurate... -
Imperial Assault Campaign Efficiency Analysis
kyo55082 replied to kyo55082's topic in Imperial Assault Campaign
A1bert, you are right, this is one of the potential tipping points because he can get an average of 3.666 blocks per attack. this will make him nearly impossible to be wounded with average units and even difficulty to stun/bleed. Although, if I was imperial I would specifically take units just to kill jerrod OR have abilities that help negate that monster of blocking potential. i.e. I am currently playing as imperials with the mercenary deck and can guarantee a minimum 9 damage single shot (10.6 damage average) from a single hired gun parting shot... this means that I can still wound jerrod in 2 turns simply from parting shots on hired guns... (although I am also thinking that the mercenary deck is stupidly OP) Although, I am still split because most imperial decks cannot pull off what I mentioned above. Would this build then be an extremely good deterrent? Or should I extend the round to kill to 3 with an average usage of defense rolls of 2 per round of being attacked? -
Imperial Assault Campaign Efficiency Analysis
kyo55082 replied to kyo55082's topic in Imperial Assault Campaign
Golan, you are correct, very similar, I just take it a farther and calculate it for all heroes. Gideon is by far the most straight forward and probably the king of efficiency. I should also mentions that your 2.25 equivalent heroes is actually 2.25 baseline heroes (not equivalent hero with 10xp of abilities). I have two current issues with the analysis. Currently, all melee heroes tend to have higher efficiency because they have extra movement abilities. all melee heroes should get a reach weapon to help optimize movement although I am also considering apply a 0.8 movement point modifier specifically for them. All defensive abilities are mostly garbage (efficiency wise) because smart imperials will focus fire or attack heroes with no defensive abilities... I believe this to be a valid statement but I could be convinced otherwise. -
I created a good doc to analyse efficient of characters and their abilities in the game. Specifically, I wanted a way mathematically solve for how efficient character are to each other. Please note that I am completely neglecting two big items which is balance/redistribution, and spike/burst damage. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing The big thing I would like help on is some of the assumptions, particularly the round action assumptions (anyone can create comments in the spreadsheet). i.e. I am assuming that a hero will rest once (1) every two (2) rounds, or move every 3 rounds, and attack once (1) every round. Below is the current output (assuming most attacking abilities are not used 1 time per game) (additionally, movement gained after attacks modified to not be useful 2 time per game) Jerrod Kelvin 10.55 Gideon 9.00 Murne Rin 8.67 Jyn Odan 8.67 Shyla Varad 8.43 Verena Talos 8.33 Davith Elso 8.10 Mak 7.44 Ko-Tun 7.33 MHD-19 7.25 Vinto 7.22 Drokkatta 7.22 Fenn Signis 7.22 Gaarkhan 6.61 Diala Passil 6.62 Biv Bodhrik 6.28 Onar Koma 5.36 Loku 5.30 Saska Teft 3.67 from what I can see, Saska is the worst because she only converts one thing for another. little is ever generated from her abilities. Additionally, Jerrod is look extremely efficient with his droid getting 2 attacks of Blue green dice with +1 auto pierce. I am uncertain if this is true or if I am missing something.
