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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Changes from Beta to look for
I see this whole argument as pointless, since the approach/skill system is just a symptom of the larger problem with this edition.
The attempted fusion of two totally different game system into one is the main issue.
I have been saying from the beginning that 5th should have either been a Genesys system expansion or a R&K update.
They tried IMHO to appease both camps and ended up with a hybrid mess of both.
That said there are many issues with 5th beyond just the approach/skill system.
Like how the Character creation system is nothing more then a fill in the blanks pre-generated character system.
How the advantages and disadvantage have lost all their flavor and become a forced +1/-1 system.
How Void has been reduced to a reward for failing to overcoming your disadvantage or for making your advantages into disadvantage.
How the system rewards you for power gaming the approach/skill system.
How thinking outside the box or trying to have a more diverse character is punished by the advancement system.
How the writers have forced their view of what a character should be on the GM/players with the Character creation system and advancement system.
How the game forces unwanted drama on the group with systems like Strife, forced disadvantage, and Ninjō /Giri. All things that should be created from role-playing between the GM and the players not the game.
Before it is brought up, you will notice I did not attack the custom dice here. That is because outside of my feelings that the current system is to hit and miss and doesn't have the flexibility that a numbered dice system has.
I think it worked here to an extent.
Now just to be clear these are IMHO, If you want to know ways I would fix these issues I am more then happy to discuss it, but if you are just out to tell me I'm wrong then don't bother or expect a response.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Changes from Beta to look for
While these statements are true most of the time, they are not universally true for all situations.
While the Samurai of Rokugan are for the most part honorable and traditional, there is an underling current of practicality in their daily life.
For example:
The truth is that contrary to popular belief, the majority of duels are going to be spur of the moment battlefield duels. You would not take the time to strip out of your armor for this, and then take the time to put it back on during the fighting.
Formal duels are much rarer, because of the time it take to organizes and gain the permissions needed for them.
So, duels in medium and heavy armor will not be as rare as you would think.
This again is highly subjective in Rokugan Culture depending on the current situation.
If the players are currently acting as a garrison force in the town or castle, then it would be appropriate for them to be in armor as they are acting in a military capacity that make the wearing of armor proper.
The point is that while it is true that there are times that it is not appropriate to wear armor in public the opposite is also true.
The limiting of spell casting per day is a balancing factor in most games.
This is normal put i place due to the exponential growth of the power of spell-casters in most systems.
Where, if you limit the upper power of the spells they can cast, you can wined up limiting their overall usefulness with weaker spells.
limiting their casting and granting them high powered spells gives them the punch to keep up with other schools, but keeps them from becoming overpowered spell machine-guns if done right.
So the question is not if its unfair, but if the Devs balanced it correctly.
If the trend of L5R continues, it will probably be latter down the line that you see rules for Taryu-jiai as they are very uncommon.
I would have to say that IMHO the Trait(Approach)/Skill system is the weakest part of this whole edition after the character generation (The reason I am giving this edition a hard pass).
I found the Approaches to be way to generic as to become almost meaningless at some points.
And the skills as presented seem to go back and forth from specific to general depending on the will of the writers.
Example: Martial: Melee/Unarmed/Ranged and Fitness.
Having training with a pike is not the same as having training with a sword but they are lumped together under Martial: Melee.
And being acrobatic in no way is the same as being stealthy yet they are lumped together under Fitness.
IMHO Trait(Approach) need to be more narrowly defined, because as it was presented in the Beta you could make a case for any approach on most skills
Example:
Martial: Melee
Air: I am attacking with Precision
Earth: I am attacking with Patience
Fire: I am attacking with Ferocity
Water: I am attacking with Power
All this is doing is diluting the pool and giving the players the chance to always pick their highest Ring to accomplish their goal.
And the skills need to be expanded to as to be less generalized as a core rule and not an option.
As it currently stands IMHO the system allows for powergaming buy actually rewards players for power-loading and using one or two rings for everything.
Add to this the over generalization of skills and you have a powergamers dream come true.
But again this is IMHO.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to AtoMaki in Changes from Beta to look for
I'm gonna comment on this too because my final opinion for the 5R5 Skill mechanics is shaping up lately.
Overall, I think the system, as intended, does not allow a whole lot of gaming the system. Emphasis is on 'as intended'. As of now, the Beta misses one key explanation: namely, that using different Approaches will not net you the same outcome and the GM must practice quite a leeway for interpreting success and failure in regard of the Approach being used. It must be entirely possible to "pick the wrong Approach" and have your character mess up or whiff their intent despite succeeding on the Skill Check. Like, they succeed, just not the right way because they approached the problem all wrong. Examples include using Recall to remember where another character put the damning evidence - the check is a success, the character remembers the exact place, but the evidence has been dislocated since then and is no longer there (should have used Survey or Sense); or using Charm to slip past a guard, where you might do the slipping but the guard will surely remember the guy who charmed her to get through.
Sadly, this isn't explained too well despite being mentioned and even having crunch (the rule for changing the TN depending on the Ring being used). It also doesn't help that as of now, Approaches manage a little too much and there can be quite a lot of confusion about how Skills and Approaches interact. It really needs you to "set your mind for it", so to speak, that in turn looks like the running design philosophy behind most of the 5R5 rules .
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to AtoMaki in Changes from Beta to look for
To be acutely honest here the Beta advantages/disadvantages were also mechanically imbalanced like all ****, in my opinion, a lot more than the previous ones. Things like Sixth Sense and Playfulness were straight-out game breaking. Yeah, I want flavorful and balanced (balanced for flavor, no less!) Advantages and Disadvantages, and not settle for a shallow compromise.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to llamaman88 in Changes from Beta to look for
I like that they're a little boring because it means you can take what you want, and not be forced into Strength of the Earth and Large yadda yadda because you're a bushi. I don't feel those added anything flavorful to the game because some were so mechanically superior that you couldn't afford to not take them. And then you were encouraged to take the easiest disadvantages to cope with rather than the most fun to play out.
As for limits on spells, I just don't see what that brings to the game. Casting comes with the risk of strife, so there's a small risk to spamming them. But if players sit there casually spamming spell after spell to abuse the rules, tell them no.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to MOONOVERRUNE in Changes from Beta to look for
I agree that I enjoy the advantage disadvantage style that encourages players and GMs to work them into the game. But I also all them having the same effect with different triggers was a little boring. Maybe they're just not the min/max system people are used too. Anyway if they nail strife economy, which at its core i think is a neat system, I think they'll be fine.
Spells don't need to be Vancian, I don't think anyone wants that, but some penalties for slinging too many spells doesn't seem unreasonable.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to llamaman88 in Changes from Beta to look for
Strongly disagree about advantages and disadvantages. I've played a few games that take this approach and think it's a lot better than the old WoD style merits/flaws. I also don't think spells per day should be brought back. To any RP. Ever. Please let this archaic thing die.
As for the Wargear it's supposed to note what is culturally unacceptable to wear in public. You shouldn't be letting your players just saunter around the bonsai garden in full armor and a spiked club over the shoulder, but if they do it has a mechanic to represent the tension and dirty looks they will receive.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to Hida Jitenno in Changes from Beta to look for
A lot of feedback, thanks for sharing!
The one thing I think I would address is regarding armor in duels, and the honor loss you would happily take for the advantage it provides: if the GM even allows it. It's not like you're going to be sneaky enough to hide lacquered armor underneath your kimono going into the duel. You show up in armor, you've essentially forfeited the duel.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to AtoMaki in Changes from Beta to look for
It kinda is. If the character has an "Earth Ring personality" then he is going to use Earth Approaches. It wouldn't make much sense for him to use anything else much. Heck, if I had more trust in the writers, then I would say that they made a mind-blowing allegory with Rokugani Bushido because as far as the tenet of Honor goes: the decisions you make and how those decisions are carried out (Approaches!) are a reflection of who you truly are.
I also disagree with mono-Approaching being difficult for the GM because it makes the character super predictable and thus easier to manage. From my personal experience, it also makes for more interesting games because a high Ring translates into more kept Opportunities and thus more colorful play.
As of now, the problem seems to be twofold:
Approaches doing a bit too much because the other half - the Skill system - is a mess. The rest of the rules do not really acknowledge the existence of Approaches and just let them hang out to dry. -
M4S-_-T3R reacted to KveldUlfr in Changes from Beta to look for
I have been GMing Fate for years. Having run fate accelerated, which is a version that plenty of people have the worry of spamming your best trait, I can say that it does none of those things.
If the fiery, brash guy always uses his fire approach to get the best dice... great. Maybe he is dealing with a polite person who responds well to a water approach (1 sux), moderately to earth and air (2 sux), and badly to fire.
Maybe that brash guy has less dice if he is calm, and takes the correct approach, but it gives him opportunity to swallow his temper IC. Or not, and risk failure. Or makes him lean on someone else. Someone better at that approach.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to KveldUlfr in Changes from Beta to look for
While that could happen... Perhaps the Bushi will do a chant, or ring a bell to the Shugenja's specifications. Perhaps the Courtier will swing a censor of fine smoke or play a song on a shamisen as a gift. Perhaps a hundred little things. The Samurai are full of rituals, and there are plenty of lay priests, and personal appeals to the kami done every day. While they cannot see the Kami, they can interact or please them or anger them... there is a basic level of theological knowledge among many of them.
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M4S-_-T3R got a reaction from Hida Jitenno in Snippets from your L5R roleplay!
The group was participating in the Topaz Championship(I converted 1E to beta). The Hida bushi was enjoying some sake in a Scorpion owned Sake house in Tsuma with a fellow Hida. As they were leaving, he noticed one of the serving girls left a note under the bottle. It had the word "help!" scrawled on it. The Hida left but vowed to return, as his personal desire was that to punish those who abuse their power.
The Hida returned after the tournament and requested a meeting with the owner of the Sake house. He then asked the Bayushi what he wanted for the serving girls release. The Bayushi's 10 koku offer was a bit high, so the Hida began intimidating the man. He settled on 5 koku and a small favor. A somewhat well established gang of bandits in Scorpion Clan territory had caused him some trouble a while back and needed to be punished.
In a village south of Beiden, with the group located, the players began asking around about these bandits. A man in a sake house offered information for a price. Again, the Hida intimidated, warning him of the consequences for refusing. The man ran but was caught buy the rest of the players waiting outside. The Hida bearhugged the man, breaking bones, and was eventually given information of the whereabouts of 3 gambling dens belonging to the bandits known as the Forest Killers, a well known and particularly problematic Juzimai(gang) in the Unicorn, Scorpion, Crab, and Shinomen Forest areas.
They decided to crash the party of one of the dens, ultimately killing 4 gang members and hanging a badly beaten gang leader from a tree by his foot. They left notes basically a calling card for those who knew they crossed the Sake House owner in Tsuma.
They returned and freed the geisha, who asked for an escort back to her home in Beiden. Turns out she was a spy, who would later claim her family had disappeared and ask to serve the Hida as a personal assistant. During the Topaz Championship, the players had became too savvy about the plots of Bayushi Sugai and were identified as persons of interest. When the Hida was spotted in the Sake house the plan was set into motion to spy on them. This would later develop further when the players became involved in a Lion/Scorpion/Hare Clan struggle that developed out of a "fake kolat" cell led by a former member of the kolat and was being contained by the Akodo family by using the players because of their distance(nobody was Lion Clan) and unaffiliated status.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to Titanium Mage in Changes from Beta to look for
No character is able to call forth the powers of the Kami except shugenja. Other samurai can pray until they pass out but the Kami will never answer. Shugenjas don’t just simply pray, they have specific techniques and secrets that they jealously guard. If a samurai doesn’t know how to make the proper offerings to the Kami, the Kami could get offended and retaliate which isn’t much assistance.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to Mirumoto Seiichiro in How are Critical Strikes handled?
I love this so much, you couldn't possible understand how much so.
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M4S-_-T3R got a reaction from AtoMaki in Changes from Beta to look for
Great point, keeping dice isn't affected by skilled/unskilled. Yeah, some of my players caught on to this really quickly and began abusing assist. Also when goblins attack in packs of 5 with 4 assisting it can get messy but actually makes sense(although the crab bushi was complaining that they were able to injure him as it was impossible for a goblin to wound him solo). Something to look at when the rules are released. Could be that it is intended to be this way. In my beta testing it seemed very good but became one of those things where anytime someone rolled there was an assist.
If it was my design, only skilled assists allow a keep and maybe even only skilled are allowed to assist. This is something that should have been on my original list, because it comes up constantly.
Or just nova everything and do whatever it takes to recharge(if possible). This is my main complaint DnD 5e as coupled with it is designed for X encounters per long rest, it really begins to force the DM into building content that is time sensitive or somehow limits the ability to recharge limited use abilities. This is another reason why I like "once per scene" type abilities. There is no way to game the system, you simply get to use the power once per scene, unlike in DnD 5e, and even other systems with spells per day or similar limiting mechanisms.
Excellent point. So FFG got this one right, we just need to hope for good balance in spells and assist!
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to nameless ronin in Armor Restrictions
That’s not always socially acceptable. In fact, it usually isn’t. Dressing for combat means you expect combat. It’s rather disrespectful to imply to the local daimyo he can’t keep the peace in his own lands by wearing armor. It’s downright foolish to imply you intend to break the peace by wearing armor.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Armor Restrictions
No problem.
Not sure about your game, but I have found that unless there is a war on or they are in the wilds or shadowlands most combat that PC will get into is out of their armor anyway.
As Nameless had said, your PCs should not be in their armor all the time as it shows a lack of respect to the lord of the lands. It's seen as making the statement that he is not capable of defending his lands.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to nameless ronin in Armor Restrictions
I wil agree that whenever armor is appropriate, there’s little or no reason not to go for the best stuff. However, I don’t see that as problematic. If you’re playing a samurai in Rokugan, it’s appropriate to have (or at least have access to) high quality equipment. You’re part of the ruling caste. Exceptions notwithstanding (and I’m rather curious about what FFG is going to do with ronin and monks, for instance), money and material possessions don’t have to be a big concern. And it’s not like the GM’s enemy NPCs will automatically get trumped by your awesome armor, they’ll just get a little upgrade here and there and they’ll be good to go.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to WHW in Armor Restrictions
With how powerful translating hits to Crits with Void is in practice, a character with steady supply of Void can easily survive without armor - and actually excel against high damage, low lethality weapons.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Armor Restrictions
So are these players monks?
The reason I ask is that unlike in D&D, armor and weapons are not available in the local market.
War-gear is normal provided by ones lord or through a commissioned blacksmith.
Where a samurai can go to a blacksmith and have a new suit of armor made fairly easy.
A monk would have some explaining to do, and it better be good.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to WHW in Armor Restrictions
From my personal experience playing and GMing:
Armor is very useful when you are expecting a situation where a lot of combat might happen - either because it will be a lot of fighting in a row (multiple combat scenes tightly packed), or because there will be many enemy participants who will potentially get a lot of shots at you (so a group fight scenario). Both, narratively, make a lot of sense - if you are planning on busting a yakuza gang with your magistrate buddy, you are going to go in armored. If you go to a battle, you go armored.
Armor, however, isn't really necessary for survival outside of these situations - sure, it might be nice to shove off 2 or 3 more Fatigue points per hit, but chances are you will go down in the same number of turns anyway. Armor is best at "extending" your Fatigue bar, and stopping weak attacks entirely, but against Crits, armor is surprisingly irrelevant. There are three broad types of skirmish dangers: swarms of opponents (these get actually pretty well neutered by armor, due to low individual damage per opponent), skilled crit based opponents, and high damage based opponents. Armor doesn't help that much against crit people - if you can make their damage go to 0, its great, but chances are you wont, and for their purposes, 1 damage is often as good as 3 or 4. High damage foes theoretically are what armor is for, however, high damage almost always comes at expense of low Deadliness - and agains these types of foes, you can reduce damage to 0 by spending a Void point and soaking their naturally low Crit with your Fitness roll. Note though that this damages the armor and is vulnerable to two-handed katanas (and pretty much only them); so unless you are expecting to actually go into a situation where armor is logically and narratively a strong choice, armor isn't necessary at all. It is NICE to have, sure, but a skilled fighter with 2 Void Points can often turn 2 hits into non consequential Crits.
So for majority of my players, the "armor of choice" is (reinforced with +1 using Design) Durable Traveling Clothes - 3 points of physical Resistance make it somewhat knife proof, durable makes them not go naked when Hit-to-Critting heavy hits away, and only social consequence they might face from it is some Crane cranetalking them about not following the latest trends of fashion.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to AtoMaki in Armor Restrictions
Going sohei is good enough I reckon. Though armor for a monk is just about courtesy and aesthetics. If you are decked out with kiho rated for non-consensual intimate approach then wearing armor won't make much difference either way.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Armor Restrictions
Was speaking from more of a 3rd/4th ed point of view but ok.
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M4S-_-T3R got a reaction from AK_Aramis in My AP notes
My 3 player group did as well, the general was saved but incapacitated. Was actually 1 round away from TPK as they finished it with no casualties.
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M4S-_-T3R reacted to tenchi2a in Armor Restrictions
This has been the case since the beginning of L5R.
Since the magic use calls on the spirits to preform the spell armor has no effect on it.
So yes a shugenja can wear armor freely.
Now for a monk it depends on which types of Kihos he is using.
And the restriction would be more about the armor restricting his movement with physical Kihos.
Now in truth armor is not all that important to most shugenjas due to them having a bodyguard, so most don't use it.
And for Monks, they can normally get more protection out of their Kihos then armor would provide with no cost to agility.
