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Derrault

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  1. If you can teach me how, I’d be game. Hmm: 2x T-47 airspeeder w/Groundbuzzer + Comm Jammer, one with Wedge Chewbacca w/Tenacity + Hunter Leia w/Esteemed Leader + Environmental Gear + Improvised Orders 2x Rebel Troopers (one w/Z-6) 1x Fleet Trooper Command cards: 1) Coordinated Bombardment + Sabotaged Communications 2) Brains and Brawn + Turning the Tide 3) Somebody Has to Save Our Skins + Covering Fire 4) Standing Orders
  2. You do keep just assuming the worst case scenario, it’s hard to see how this is a good faith argument.
  3. You don’t have to “run down their throat” to get a target on turn one, just deploy properly and two speed three moves is sufficient to reach out and touch the desired portion of the map, no problem. Effectively ignoring terrain at less than height 2 means you can take a direct line towards most enemies that infantry can’t, and deprive them of cover. For an infantry unit to succeed at a ranged 1 attack would require the Speeder at just inside range 2 of the Troopers. Now, tactically, why would you choose to do that against a trooper unit with impact grenades, instead of maintaining range 3 until that unit was gone? That’s just bad play. Lastly, I explained the actual capacity because you claimed it did not have the capacity to disable an enemy unit. Which was wrong.
  4. 2 wounds against red defense dice, just with the main gun; throw in the rear gun and that’s 18 wounds over 6 rounds. Average. The middle of the road. It has the capacity to deal up to 60 wounds.
  5. Spreading your firepower over multiple activations is a negative unless you can bring them to bear (it’s easier to ensure that fewer, tougher, units get their licks in). Where more activations is a positive is in being able to cover more zones or the map, for objective purposes, but that doesn’t have a bearing on winning unit match ups. Also, a speed 3 unit with compulsory is just about the opposite of clumsy, it’s fast and agile, able to cover large distances across line of sight blocking terrain to strike. @thepopemobile100 Your stormtrooper dlts are probably better off ignoring the t-47 in favor of softer targets; that doesn’t mean you should ignore the t-47. Hardly, it has the capacity to disable key units in different parts of the battlefield because of its speed.
  6. Derrault

    4xZ6 or 1xAT-RT

    @arnoldrew "The real question I have is if 4 Z6s is better or worse than an AT-RT with a rotary cannon." They're just different. AT-RT brings 6 wounds and armor (so it's going to survive more incoming fire, in general, and it masses hits into one pool (3.125 average) Whereas the 4x Z-6 give you more pools (allowing you to spread damage more), but average less per attack (1.5 each), making them less useful against a hard target in cover (because the cover would apply to every attack, effectively negating all 6 average damage provided).
  7. @DarkTrooperZero "Dude do you even maths? it's been Very clear for a long time the T47 doesn't kill many storm troopers for its points and in comparison isn't that hard to shoot down." Of course I do, that's why I recognize the value the 47 brings. You seem to not be following the discussion. It was already stipulated that the T-47's offense is lower than an equivalent number of points of Troopers (Which, for the record, is actually just under 4 units of Stormtroopers without DLT-19s). The difference is that the T-47 damage output does not degrade with damage, whereas the Stormtrooper damage output does. To compound this, the corps units have worse defense, across the board, than the T-47. It's useful not because it has the best possible damage dice (although its dice are quite good), but because it's harder to kill than those corps units, and it gets its damage all in one activation, instead of spreading it out amongst several and risking not activating at all, or only activating at a severe handicap from incoming damage. @thepopmobile100 "You're assuming that all rebel troops are in range to fire as well despite their low speed in comparision to the 47 and same attack range. You're also assuming that all the stormtroopers are in range to fire at the 47. The most likely case is that you can't bring much of either to bear down on the speeder and the only way the rebel player is able to keep his corp up with the speeder is if the speeder has been flying around a couple of turns doing nothing." It's likely that the units will be engagable for the sake of objectives, if they aren't (and are effectively pinned in place in their deployment zones in the hope of fighting the 47), then they aren't scoring points, which is valuable in its own right because they're losing ground. Most likely, there will not be a mass of 6 corps units able to all target the 47, this was just looking at the "worst case scenario", and it turns out that it's not bad. "Even if you are taking two troops off of each stormtrooper squad in a volley, 3+dlt with no aim still does at least one damage after defense the 72% of the time or two damage 17% of the time. Great odds to do one damage and a more than insignificant chance to do 2 damage after defense. Your rebel troops who have been shooting haven't done much to keep the 47 alive. God forbid full units with an aim take shots against it as it won't last the end of the round." It's only 1.08 wounds on average, the full unit average is 1.25. So, yeah, if there were 6 full units in range, there's only a small chance (yes 50% is small) that they can kill the 47 by concentrating firepower. You know what else they could hypothetically kill by concentrating fire? Luke. (The same fire would inflict 10.875 wounds). Although the T-47 can frustrate all these efforts by taking a single dodge token, reducing the output from 7.5 average across 6 units to only 6.5 average. (That's before those units suffer incoming fire of course, realistically they just won't even come close to that much on average). Remember, for most Objective scenarios it simply won't be feasible to mass and fire on a single target with more than 1-3 squads because concentrating that many units means being overwhelmed at the other objectives, and losing the game outright. With those low levels (1-3 units) they basically do nothing more than scratch the 47 each round, if they waste their time focusing on it. HH-12s are another matter, although the 47 is still better equipped to survive them than, for example, the AT-RT, which fills a similar role, providing support for infantry units.
  8. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    @Caimheul1313 "You can't assume anything outside of the context of the question. Nothing requires me to take the Armament upgrade if I take Pathfinders, just as nothing requires me to take more than one Pathfinder unit. If I don't plan to use the Pathfinders as an aggressive deployment, or as an early sacrificial unit, then I don't HAVE to take more than one. I also don't HAVE to fill the heavy slot. Z-6 Trooper + 1 body on a rebel trooper unit would be better since it can be used every turn without requiring a recovery and is the same range as the default weapon on the unit, so no "hidden tax" to allow the rest of the unit to engage the same target. Plus it adds two wounds to the unit instead of just one. Or any number of other combination of upgrades that can be purchased for other units using those same 32 points. There's lots of better ways to invest 32 points than in a single model with an exhausting weapon." Z-6 + Trooper adds 2 wounds (so, +1 wound is good...but those wounds are less effective than a Pathfinders because they have white surge dice without Danger Sense, but they do have access to Nimble...but that requires an action before someone fires on the unit...so definitely not as good compared to say, Pathfinders with Duck and Cover which grants the same effect on demand AND the extra white die). Total damage increase is only +2 (1.125 hit, .875 crit) at ranges 1-3 vs the 2.125 from Bistan (1.5 hit, .625 crit) at ranges 1-4. Given that the entire Pathfinder squad can engage at range 4, this increases the survivability compared to the Rebel tooper squad, and Bistan can engage sooner than the Z-6 and extra trooper while suffering less overall danger. Summary: Bistan is a better upgrade. I agree, there are plenty of possible combinations, I just don't see a lot of upgrades 'for other units' (important caveat apparently) that are providing more than Bistan does, exhaust or not. (again, exhaust for a range 4 weapon just means the unit is unlikely to move and fire, but at that range it also probably doesn't have to). @MasterShake2 "Reminder, the whole unit, including Pao shoots at range 4. I'd also say Pao is better at 22 than Bistan is at 32. To each his own." Right, it's not like Pao or Bistan's dice are forced to fire separately (unlike say, the HH-12 or DLT-19) from the rest of the unit. I'd still prioritize Bistan before Pao for the extra firepower, but I also think I'd deploy them using the long range config as fire support for the 3rd pathfinder unit and Jyn (since they all have to be deployed at range 4, it's very very likely I'd only put the scout 1 upgrade on the non-Pao/Bistan unit so it can move into position somewhere at range 3 of the nearest Imperial unit, and the short range config.
  9. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    If we are taking Pathfinders it’s safe to assume they have the config Upgrade already. And if we take multiple pathfinder units, then it’s safe to assume we have Pao already. Since it must not have been clear: What non-Pathfinder upgrade for 32 points is better?
  10. That’s assuming 6 totally fresh stormtrooper units fired; it’s safe to assume the Rebel player fires the T-47 at one that hasn’t fired (so, extremely likely there’s a suppression token there, and wounds), then the Rebel gets to activate a unit after/before every stormtrooper squad. If the Stormtroopers are firing on the 47 they’re expending the most possible dice they have for the game, only to inflict ~1 wound. In return, they’re suffering fire from, let’s say Rebel troopers, taking an average of 2 wounds per Rebel attack (which of course reduces their output by .75 each) That’s what I mean by them having hardly any effect. The Stormtroopers deal some damage to the 47, sure, but they haven’t reduced the output of the Rebels by doing so. Conversely, the Rebel damage is directly attriting Imperial firepower for this and future remaining rounds.
  11. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    I mean, if you happen to know of a better upgrade for 32 points, I’d love to see it. Reminder, he’s 5 dice at range 4.
  12. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    .75 for two white dice is right, but it’s only 2 white dice if Pao’s red die doesn’t miss, because then you’d choose to reroll the red die. So 1/8 (the number of misses on a red die) you’d choose the red die and a white die, which raises the value slightly above the .75 of 2 white dice). Pao is nice, for sure, but Bistan is absolutely worth taking for only 10 points more. The exhaust isn’t problematic
  13. ‘Semi reliably’ is my new favorite phrase for sometimes. Again, doing massed fire on a T-47 takes those 6 actions, at least one of which is going to suffer significant damage from the 47 itself, and the rest of which are subject to damage from all the fresh units. The chances of actually firing full force (which again, on average will not kill the 47!) are nil. If they hit the target is suppressed, with just white dice it’s likely they didn’t even get a hit result for most situations, and even if they did, rally (or if these are units with a higher courage, Pathfinders for example look like they pair great with the 47) negates the value for the round. It also ignores that both sides would target fresh units first, in part to supply suppression, making it unlikely that either side can effectuate both an aim and a fire.
  14. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    I mean, the aim only rerolls 2 dice, so it, at most, converts 2 misses to hits; if one of those misses is Pao’s red die (1/8 chance of a miss, 7/8 of a hit) and the other is a white die (5/8 miss, 3/8 hit); it’s an average of +1.25 damage (1 hit, .25 crit) but that only holds in the 1/8 times the red die didn’t already hit/crit; in the other 7/8 cases, it’s two white dice: only .75 damage (.5 hit, .25 crit) Normalized that’s worth: +.8125 total The difference between Pao (1.25) and Bistan (2.125) is 1.3125, still greater than the aim token value for Pao’s unit (at ranges other than close). Edit: .5 greater actually.
  15. Derrault

    Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

    With the surge to hit you’re probably getting a hit on the red or the black dice, and slightly under half the time getting one on each white die. Having 4x the white dice is the difference maker there. Edit: just to be clear, I think you should take both; but Bistan’s average output is higher (1.5 hit/.625 crit vs Pao’s 1 hit, .25 crit)
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