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    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    That's OK, what they show on-screen is totally irrelevant to me because my games aren't about them. I'll take the backdrop and explore it a bit more and make it what I want. Canon is meaningless to me, and all of the source material is just a starting point for my gaming needs. I have no reverence for Star Wars other than I can turn it into a fun gaming setting. Note that "turn it into" part because, as is, it's mostly trash.
  2. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Vondy in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    Sure. And that is a part of Lucas' evolving interpretation of his own work that renders him an unreliable creator. He injected a weird dissonance into his creation that was at odds with what he'd created before. People can play all the disingenuous moral equivalency games they want to make an argument that the Empire (or separatists) can be seen as good guys "from a certain point of view" and that the republic was so deeply flawed that it could be taken as "the real bad guys." Not all "points of view" are equally valid. There were "Good Germans" fighting for the Nazis in WWII. So what?
    Sophomoric "look how smart I am because I twisted the source material out of historical and meaningful context" tom-foolery and the result of a radically altered narrative from what the original trilogy suggested is not profound. Yes, that "point of view" is given some weak contextual support by Lucas in this "heroes on both sides" throw-away platitude, but does that line hold water when we actually watch the movies? Not really. The Jedi are clearly hidebound and make some flawed moral choices, but Dooku, Palpatine, and Grevious, et all are clear cut villains seeking evil ends through evil means. That there are off-screen heroes fighting on both sides is utterly irrelevant because the movies aren't about them.
    The Clone Wars are the public face of an ancient struggle between the Jedi and Sith. That's a struggle between light and dark, peace and suffering, good and evil. That's what Star Wars has always been about. That Lucas and a morass of expanded universe writers muddied those waters can produce interesting stories, but it can also be problematic in that it drives the incessant and banal "certain point of view" arguments that recast villains as heroes. Yes, politically, the clone wars were fought between a deeply flawed republic at war with a bunch of plutocratic corporate overlords. Yes, there were good people fighting on both sides. But, in the end, who cares? Star Wars has never been about galactic politics.
    I saw the original star wars in the theaters. I grew up with that trilogy. Star Wars was a story with clear heroes and clear villains that served as a morality play about good, evil, and redemption. Luke is our Hero. Vader is our villain. Luke, in the end, redeems Vader despite all the evil he did for Palpatine. Star Wars has always boiled down to morality. If you are arguing galactic politics and not basic morality you have lost sight of the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter if the old republic was flawed, or that the trade federation and separatists were, respectively, cynical and useful idiots for the Sith. WThe Sith are the bad guys.
    Let's be really clear about this: Our heroes are Anakin (for a while), Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Padme. Our villains are Dooku, Palpatine, Maul, and Grevious. Ironically, while Obi-Wan tells us that only Sith deal in black and white, its Anakin's insistence on his twisted point of view that makes it impossible for him to turn away from the dark side when Obi-Wan is trying to redeem him. He employs weak-sauce  justifications for mass murder, terror, despotism, and hatred. I find most of the arguments in favor of the separatists and, worse, the Empire, that fans make echo Vader beat for beat.  hen you enslave entire species, destroy entire planets, and seek "peace, justice, and freedom" through mass murder, terrorism, and despotism, you aren't the good guys, no matter what you tell yourself.
    Obi-Wan said it all: "You have let this dark lord twist your mind until you have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
    Or, to quote the Maharal of Prague: "If you want to sharpen your mind play chess; don't distort the truth."
    Star Wars I-III are a morality play about the fall of Anakin Skywalker. Star Wars IV-VI are morality play about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Star Wars VII-IX are... honestly, I have no idea what they are about. Everything else is just commentary.
    And, with that, I am not commenting on this thread again.
  3. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Vondy in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    Lucas has explained Star Wars from his own "evolving" and self-contradictory points of view over the past 40 years. 
    As a result, anything Lucas says is only true "from a certain point of view" and "at a certain point in time."
    This is without working a mob of Expanded Universe writers with their own points of view and contradictory additions int the mix.
    For this reason, I generally only reference primary sources (on-screen canon) and take Lucas with a liberal dose of salt.
    I'm sure you've heard of the unreliable narrator in literature? Lucas is an unreliable creator.
  4. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Galakk Fyyar in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    This is how I see it. I feel like the folks saying that something like this shouldn't be done because of politics are seriously simplifying what in actuality is a pretty complex, dense conflict. If you think every Imperial is a moustache-twisting supervillain and every Rebel is a shining virtuous superhero, that's just not how it is. There are heroes and villains on both sides.
    With that said I do understand the people saying Disney wouldn't let it fly given the possibility of a bad reaction in a knee-jerk climate. When there are people who will genuinely call you an evil monster for having political disagreements and become vocally outraged over it for example, as a company it's an unfortunate necessity to be careful with what you do. It isn't right, but it's reality.
  5. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Ni Fang in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    Well, whats funny, the Empire saw the Rebels as the bad guy, and the rebels saw the Empire as the bac guy, with hte common folk who were caught in the cross fire simply living each day hoping they'd not get blown to bits. Some of whom worked in Empire owned factories as well, just common every day folks.
    The Common folk simply wanted am eans to live, the Empire gave it to them making their stuff, and then so did the rebellion. But some would say the Empire paid better
  6. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    Don't fool yourself. It's always been only the very rich and powerful in charge, and it likely will always be that way. The public never had any great sway over the Republic, and how could they when the size of the Republic is so vast that even billions of oppressed voices barely register as a murmur. The Republic (and their Jedi) wanted to maintain peace, but it was not a universally benevolent peace. Sometimes those oppressed minorities were willing to break that peace for their own betterment, and then the Republic was quick to label them as "bad guys" for trying to better themselves.
  7. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    The Dooku and the Separatist Council were bad guys, but many of the members of the Separatist Senate and the common people that wanted freedom from the Republic were quite different.
  8. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Zrob314 in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    If you think about it, most of the people we see in the moves don't really remember the republic.  Han was a Corellian street rat and probably doesn't remember much of anything before the Clone Wars...even then he probably had no understanding of the galaxy.  Same with Lando.  
    Luke And Leia were born after the end of the war (hours after, but still after).  As for anyone older...there's probably a lot of divergent opinion about what the New Republic would look like.  You've probably got a LOT of old separatists saying "I told you so."  Mothma and Organa probably telling a lot of people to work past their differences and all these things will be addressed once Palpatine is overthrown.  There's also probably a lot of profiteers, aspiring profiteers and corporate interests that are planning to wrest as much control from the new government as possible.  Other than that you've got people fighting in the name of a dream and a thing they never experienced and so they put their own imprint on that idea.  
    You could have an old Munn family that's biding their time and supplying the Alliance with their ancestral fortune in order to regain control of the banks and finance system when the Empire is deposed.....Hutts lending support in exchange for promises that their territorial integrity and independence will be restored.  Plenty of stuff for diplomats to do.
  9. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    The source for the Republic making villains of separatists is Episode II, Episode III, The Clone Wars (both series), and numerous others. The main source citing Mothma against the inclusion of former Separatists in the Alliance are The Essential Guide to Warfare and The Rebel Files. As to how it ends, what future version do you want? In all cases, the New Republic falls apart after a few decades because it's hopelessly flawed. In the EU, the New Republic eventually has to team up with the Imperial Remnant and the Chiss just to get their trains running on time.
  10. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Ni Fang in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    Possibly the best explination of the New Republic I have ever seen
    Personally speaking, I'd love to play some Imperials, maybe some good proper rules for being a Chiss or Stormtrooper or even Imperial Navy Officer. Some proper ship specs and classes. Even different trooper types would be nice too.
    But I can also understand why there is more stuff AGAINST the empire instead of FOR it. As many have pointed out, the meritds and flaws ofd both sides really do indeed depend on certain points of view. 
    Disney did allow some books to be published, This is those books published under the Legends banner
    The Jedi Path The Way of the Sith The Imperial Handbook The Rebel Handbook Bounty Hunter Code Now persaonally I have only Jedi Path, I'd love to get my hands on a copy of Imperial Handbook and Way of the Sith as well as Bounty Hunter Code, and Rebel Handbook. Each one of these sheds light on vastly different topics, and Bounty Hunter Code actually really details how Bonty Hunters really work {they're not heartless monsters, they really actually have a code of conduct!}
  11. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    The Republic that the Alliance is fighting to restore didn't want its members to be able to decide their own fates; they fought against separatism and made villains of those that wanted freedom from their ineffective and flawed government. Even after the Clone Wars are over, Mothma refuses to let former Separatists into her Alliance. The Republic she wants to restore will be the same as the Republic that died, only with Mothma and her crew in charge instead of Palpatine.
  12. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    No, there are much worse things out there than the Empire (for example, the Hutt kajidics).
    As for the average Rebel abdicating the responsibility of mission to their leaders, that's exactly how the Republic fell: too much advocating the voice of the many to the decision-making of the few. The exact Republic that those leaders are trying to rebuild (note that it's The Alliance to Restore the Republic, not The Alliance to Restore a Republic) will eventually become the enemy of the malcontents that form the unthinking masses of the Alliance.
  13. Like
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    The Rebellion wants to restore the Republic. The Republic was a horribly corrupt and ineffective form of government that led to much chaos and suffering in the galaxy. This wansn't all Palapatine's doing either--the Republic was rotten to the core long before he came around. The Republic really shouldn't be considered a "good thing" except in comparison to the Empire; it's the South Park choice between a ****** and a turd sandwich. Restoring the Republic is just going for the lesser evil rather than trying to do something new and (hopefully better), but the Rebellion eats up all of that revisionist history.
  14. Like
    Kam01 reacted to Demon4x4 in Imperial Navy Core Rulebook?   
    The 501st seems to be doing just fine despite these view points, and is well respected and supported by Disney. 
  15. Haha
    Kam01 reacted to kmanweiss in Funny Age of Rebellion Stories   
    Instead of going back to confront a backstabbing Hutt crime lord face to face by fighting through his palace...they packed a freighter full of explosives and auto-piloted it into the palace while they watched from the escape pod.  This has become a theme now.  Speeder bikes, freighters, etc.  They've blown up a fortune in vehicles but are constantly complaining about how poor they are.
    They set up their own little rebel cell.  They recruited a few ne'er-do-wells from a nearby village.  They weren't recruited to be rebels, just to occupy the base, keep things running, kill any varmints, etc.  In exchange they'd have shelter, food, and pay.  They were reluctant, but agreed as it was an upgrade to their lifestyle.  First time the party returns to the base, they are sitting in the mess playing cards.  The party flips out and threatens to kill them for being lazy (they'd been doing their job, but the party assumed they'd be on duty 24/7 or something).  After threatening to kill them, and being reminded that wasn't their job, the party then apologized and sought counseling for rage issues.
    They were delivering goods as part of a job.  They had no skin in the game so to speak, they were just middlemen.  When they show up, one of the party members asks the crime boss they were selling stuff to if anything odd has happened recently.  Like, had they been attacked or anything.  The crime boss took it as a threat, and almost attacked them.  The party talked them down and explained that when they show up, stuff just happens, fights break out, people attack, he was just trying to warn them.  Before the conversation could wrap up, mandalorians with jetpacks descended from the sky to attack the gangster.
    They attacked an occupied a small Imperial Base.  The Imperial in charge of that sector was mounting a small military force to covertly reacquire the base (didn't want the Empire to know about his weakness and his failure in holding the base).  Before he attacked, he sent a small scout team to investigate.  The players captured one of the scouts, dressed up as Imperials, convinced the spy that they were Imperial intelligence, and that they had occupied the base for their purposes, then escorted the prisoner to the spaceport to head back to his commanding officer.  They had people in stormtrooper armor, imperial officer uniforms, they painted droids to appear to be Imperial...they really sold the whole thing.  They not only convinced the guy to tell this story, but they also convinced him to act as a spy for Imperial Intelligence by sending them info on their boss.
  16. Haha
    Kam01 reacted to HappyDaze in Collapse of the Republic Spoilers   
    So the planet profile for Mandalore, under the pacifistic New Mandalorian government, lists the primary exports as "mercenaries, starships." I'm sure that goes over well in-universe, similar to saying that Iran's chief exports are "terrorists, oil" yeah...
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