Aite so its based on the amount of ls points you convert. Let's go....per session...starting at 3) ls pips converted (assuming you've crossed the threshold as a ds char) Trigger a setback die on discipline checks until the end of the encounter? (Unsure if too harsh) After a further 3 (6 total) trigger a trauma check 9 something worse mebe

I came back to this late. I like the trauma @emsquared. I'm just gonna need to test it first before I can comment if it fits what I'm aiming for. @P-47 Thunderbolt (why are there like 8 of your name when I try to tag?) What if it was when converting ls to DS it triggered. That way the more powerful you are the better you are at doing so? But I still like your idea when I re read it. The consequences I'm almost nowhere on. Strain is already factored in morality and trauma and I'm trying to conceptualise something that isn't too punishing. A hindrance, or something that can be worked around I think. I'm still wary like I said to erik of crippling players.

Someone, I think Absol but it was a while ago, mentioned something similar. That you face a sort of check at certain amount of usage and it's sort of like a gate? Once you've passed that gate you're mostly fine but you could have cost. When Ems linked the trauma mechanic I was thinking something like Using xamount of DS pips at one time prompts trauma roll of X difficulty. DS areas of a certain strength would similarly trigger a check/challenge. What do you mean roll against it?

@P-47 Thunderbolt 'They don't have to watch their actions, because they aren't worried about slipping. In a campaign focused on dark side characters, this is lackluster.' Yes. 'You want a mechanic to make them concerned about going too dark side?' No. I see the usage of the darkside itself as inherently dangerous. (I put this in bold because I feel this has been wildly missed despite numerous posts and i'm unsure how to be clearer. Not to be a ****.) As in every time you use it that it costs you, changes and alters you in ways beyond simple morality. I am aware @Daeglan of the redemption mechanics. That's not at all what i'm discussing or seeking. Nor am I trying to 'force' anything. I am also aware, as @emsquared laboured with, about the morality system. I do not feel that it comes close to covering what I highlighted in bold. If i did I wouldn't be here. what you said in your first post was describing a secondary morality system with aesthetic or intangiable differences. Which have no actual mechanical cost and end up at the same conclusion of the Morality system of you becoming an NPC. That's not cutting it for me. And whilst the Trauma mechanic introduced in the Genesys core is a good start i've not tried it to say that it does work but on paper that's more what I want. It strikes me, based on this conversation, that most of you are perfectly happy with the set up as is. That the current format works perfectly fine, even in the setting i'm using, so there is no deficiency to speak of. So it could just be that I have a fundamental disagreement upon the way in which the Darkside works. Mr @ErikModi I don't see it that way, or at least I don't set up things nor do I RP in a setting where that is the case. You go on to say...and perhaps most PRECISELY..lie in the disagreement with your intriguing philosophy again where we diverge (and i'm happy to do so btw I've no problem with being the other side of the fence) 'It's their galaxy, everyone else is just living in it.' I get this sentiment. I seriously do. But this is..the hero of tython's galaxy...or THeron shan's. We often RP as characters significantly below the "Heroric" level. But with the potential to get there. Certainly when I set the table that's what I am for my players to RP in whenever we use this setting. ESPECIALLY as darksiders. They are special, as force users its easy to say they have high potential or something, but they're not Luke's party special yet. Back toThunderbolt (not that I don't appreciate all responses but he and I have had other chats a lot of times before) I've tried for years to handle this through roleplay. It has had varying degrees of success and failure. The reason I use this system, or any for that matter, is consistency and objectivity. I imagine many here have come from forum or text based RP where dice are not used...I prefer them because of what options it lends to me. I've tested a few home rules before that I wasn't satisfied with because they were too punishing (as I think Erik said) or actually did the reverse and made it even less of consequence to use darkside characters. I'm hoping to figure out something that lends that consistency whilst remaining in that narrative crux.

Long short yes you're right. Which is part and parcel the problem. In an unfettered society, which even encourages that attitude, the only consequence should be your ability to pursue that. It's my belief that some people should be able to better endure that pursuit than others (Sidious or more narratively appropriate a Dark COuncil member would be examples). That some people will have minds and bodies simply capable of better enduring that journey and I think there should be some mechanical aspect to help better demonstrate that. I also get the Punishing aspect of what you said and am wary/cautious of it. However ultimately in a 'lightside' campaign there is a strong reason not to take from the pool. I want something that would replicate that. The trauma mechanic that Genesys uses is a good start for that IMO but i'm unsure it's enough on it's own. I'd have to actually test it before I could comment for sure. The debate on the whole Sidious Corruption thing is...difficult for me...i've changed my mind on it several times in the past and I think it's a debate that I haven't settled with myself as various different things I read have interpreted that struggle (as it relates to him) differently.

I mean to call someone obtuse...when it took you 5 posts to land at an answer..only to immediately make another two posts after I said you'd landed at it... Mindblown Irony is like.....in this thread well demonstrated. I looked up the mechanic. I am satisfied it will help and will make an additional one to accompany it to satisfy what I intended. Thanks again.

I'm unsure how you think this is helping? shrug

I have. A corruption mechanic is not the morality mechanic. I spoke about people losing their minds and becoming slaves to the darkside rather than bending it to their will. Something that works alongside the storytelling losing their characters Sanity...is not in any way becoming an NPC. I'm not ...at all...asking for lightside. Notice the heading of the whole thread? The morality mechanic, on its own, is sufficent for lightside playthroughs. It is not -needed- for competent RPers/storytelling but is a good measurement and cost to using the darkside pips for a jedi character. In some campaigns i've seen it used as a way for players to litterally sense something is different in someone rather than just recognising their action someone -feels- wrong. I am not...at all...asking for a jedi but for a sith and a sith in the Old Republic's Sith Empire and thus, I feel, it alone is not sufficient. I feel that..narratively..there should be more cost for using the darkside especially when you're just chugging the juice. You can, should, still play a character who has lost their mind. You could RP now as the person who is enslaved to the item etc without becoming an NPC. You can accomplish this -without- a system. But I would like one..anyway. Much like we have the morality one. A sanity/Trauma mechanic is a potential answer that i'd eluded to! No I do not have the Gen core rulebook. But I can look it up.

Yet we have a morality system in place that most folks use alongside storytelling and rp. I thank you for your input @emsquared but it's not what i'm looking for at all.

Palp is, in canon, the culmination of generations of sith working to invest in a single plan. His workings and result as the investiture of a gigantic plan result in the pay off unlike anything else in history. He is not the average sith. The darkside consumes, in setting, and corrupts and costs its users extensively. Many and more outright go mad in the pursuit of its greater use or become servants to sites where it is strong. If you play a darkside campaign, aside from the strain cost, using the force and the darkside has little threat of consequence to you in that regard. You can extensively use it absent real concern. A jedi markedly avoids that due to the conflict youre acquiring and the fear of the morality drop. That is both narrative and mechanical. In the setting that I'm using there are scores of high level sith who have been crippled in one way or another by a lifetime or less of using the force via the darkside. I wondered if people had come up with something that mechanically represents that. To give people who are rping as darksiders more to consider when plunging their hand back into the pool.

Yup. I've played several in it and been DM in a few. THis reccurs. An agency change...is different to -becoming an NPC- like...Obviously. I can encourage character change and am blessed with tables of players who try to push this themselves. THe point is the base game (for a lightside/regular campaign) has a neat mechanic to help measure..prompt..and track this change/difference that fits the narrative. Once you're playing a Sith...as in someone RAISED to follow the darkside...the 'consequences' for doing evil stuff are minimal. The Sith Empire lauds its darksiders as demi-gods they're not at all shunned. Why would Law enforcement pursue them? In fighting sure...but that's not at all what i'm asking for. I'm asking for, in a setting in which the above listed factors are not relevant, how do you add consequence? Does anyone use a system or have some sort of table..or guide to consequences of using lightside pips.

The game seems to take the same attitude towards it of the whole 'becoming an NPC' but I just feel thats a cop out. If you're running a darkside campaign set in the Sith Empire as Darkside wielding force users.....how can that work? I say corruption in the sense that Yuuthura ban and Adjunta pall -clearly- loose themselves to the darkside completly losing sight of their original goals and aims and becoming something else. Bane, sort of, does the same where he becomes singularly focused. If you're playing Jedi (Which I think the game intends for you) then there is a clear consequence for using the DS pips and I think the whole morality system serves its purpose perfectly there. Once you flip it and you're the 'baddies' I feel it's not sufficent. I suppose...I want rules to make it FEEL sufficent *shrug* sorry if i'm not making sense.

I know this has come up before but as I stopped to re-read the rules upon Darkside play I found myself underwhelmed and dissapointed. Does anyone have rules for Darkside campaigns? A corruption system maybe?

Do you have other pages for other rules like this?

I found this very useful. Thank you.

I'd agree otherwise it sort of gimps the aspect of getting the drop on someone that others eluded to and there are skills that exist specifically to help with the initiative in order to stop that.

Aahhhhhhhhh. OK yeah that makes WAY more sense.

Falling avalanche i believe you're referring to

Thanks for eber for your responses and engaging conversation however on this occasion I, being the sad person I am, actually found the talent toy endlessly scouring. 'Bring it down' from the explorers big game hunter actually does this and isn't even, in the talented description, limited to type of weapon which is stupid imo. I do agree that deathblow I struggle to narratively justify. I don't sort of get it..are you so determined to push through or something?

Hello folks! I am looking around ... trying to see if there is a talent that applies your Brawn* to damage on Hit for a destiny point. Seems there are others that do the same with intellect etc but I can't find one. Am I being dense as usual? <Insert help me Obi wan gif> Thanks

An Old Republic era book appears to me to be a no brainer.

I echo your sentiment of concern to be honest.

No one has ever used this tree at a table i've played in and I think its because it reads poorly. Especially as you can't friend/foe it. I'd probably have it affect the user too. There's a couple talents in mystic which seem sub-optimal in a similar fashion, forewarning comes to mind.

I initially presumed this was a mechanical question, in which case you're unlikely to do better than Niman, if it's a narrative question then my knee-jerk response is just to say 'Base it on the RP at your table and speak with your GM'. But you asked it here which makes me assume you've already tried the above. I need some more narrative information before I can make any real recommendation.

I do get that its just lacking in enough stuff versus other tree. It feels quite bland as a tree to me versus many others. I'll definitely run forewarning as said above in the future.