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TwitchyBait

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  1. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to dbmeboy in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    Generally?  By placing damage tokens on creatures.  And a creature can both have 0 tokens on it and have no tokens on it.  One is referencing a binary state (damaged vs undamaged) one is referencing the amount of damage (0,1,2,3,...).
  2. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to dbmeboy in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    Ok, I'll bite:
    No, Save the Pack does not destroy creatures with 0 damage.
    I think we all can agree that a creature with 0 damage on it is undamaged/not damaged (if there's anyone out there who doesn't agree, sorry for speaking for you, but I don't think this is actually a controversial definition).
    However, there is no conflict between the statements:
    -This creature is undamaged.
    and
    -This creature has 0 damage.
     
    A creature can both be undamaged and have an amount of damage (0) equal to its power (0).  Those statements do not conflict.
  3. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to RobertK in Cards that start with ready (e.g: gauntlet of command)   
    The answer is correct, but let’s be careful about saying why itbis right.
    The “do as much as you can” rule would mean that this effect would ready the exhausted creature, but if there are no enemy creatures to fight it can do no more. The effect of the original card is now complete.  Since the newly-readied creature is of the active house and it is now ready, it could subsequently be used (fight, reap, or action). 
  4. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to twinstarbmc in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    If my living or not solely depends on whether or not I have suffered as much damage as I have guns, yes.
  5. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from dperello in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    There are two sides here,
    -one says 0 damage and no damage mean exactly the same thing, that a creature with 0 power dies since it's damage is 0 which is the same as having no damage.
    -the other says they're separate that 0 damage and no damage are not the same thing and as such a creature with no damage would survive if brought to 0 power.
    This second scenario is the only one that allows for the creature to fight as obviously it would die with the former position.
    If we look at the fight rules it says a creature deals damage equal to it's power, it's power in this instance would be 0 and thus it would deal 0 damage. If you hold that a creature with 0 power would deal no damage then you are maintaining the first position where it would be dead because you are now switching to the position of 0 and no damage being the same thing. You can't swip swap back and forth and have a consistent position, either 0 and no damage are the same and the creature dies or they aren't it can fight thus dealing 0 damage.

    What you're doing here is going
    "0 damage and no damage aren't the same thing thus the creatures damage is not equal to or greater than it's power meaning it lives."
    Then you switch gears and go "when it deals damage equal to it's power of 0 it deals no damage because 0 damage is no damage"
    That's contradicting the first position directly because you're saying 0 damage and no damage aren't and are the same thing.

    " The damage never happens because 0 is 0, its nothing. "
    Fighting says a creature deals damage equal to it's power, period. Thus if a creature has 0 power and attacks it has, by the fight rules, dealt 0 damage (since 0 is equal to it's power) and if you claim that 0 damage IS nothing, then the creature is dead because it's power (0) is equal to it's damage (nothing) which you've already established nothing and 0 are the same when you said, and I quote a gain "because 0 is 0, it's nothing".
    I don't get how this could be any clearer.
  6. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from dperello in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    You can’t say the creature with 0 power would fight and not deal damage because it not only flies in the face of the fight rules but because you’ve already proposed the premise that 0 damage and undamaged are different because if they where the same the creature would be dead (ie those of us saying 0 damage is undamaged).
    Ok we’re getting somewhere. So we have a 0 power creature that’s alive. This is only possible if 0 damage and undamaged are different things because if they’re the same then an undamaged creature with 0 power would have 0 damage killing it. 
    So now that we’ve established the basis of what the “undamaged and 0 damage are different” side is saying let’s go look at the fight rules:
    “Each of the two creatues deals an amount of damage equal to its power”
    Uh oh, so if a 0 power creature fights another creature it deals 0 damage. Since we’ve established the only way for it to be alive is to say undamaged and 0 damage are separate then the creature it fought is now damaged for 0.
    Thus if this creature had poison what it Fought is dead, if you used a board wipe that effected damage creatues? It would also die. This means every time a 0 power creature engaged in a fight you’d have to differentiate all the creatures it or another 0 power creature fought from those they hadn’t as the entire basis for their argument is that the two are now have intrinsically different damage states.
    Or you could say 0 damage is undamaged and thus those fights would never occur, the tracking wouldn’t need to be done, and the effects differentiating those that fought a 0 power over those that didn’t would also be gone because no 0 power creature would be able to attack as they would die once hitting 0.
    In short holding to the basis that 0 damage and undamaged are somehow different oppens up a big can of worms.
  7. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to dbmeboy in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    All these answers can simultaneously be true. 
    Q - What is the amount of damage on this creature? 
    A - 0
    Q - Does the creature have damage tokens? 
    A - No
    Q - Is the creature damaged? 
    A - No
    Q - Is the amount of damage tokens equal or greater than the power of 0?
    A - Yes
     
    Being damaged or not is a binary condition. A creature either has 1 or more damage or it doesn't. Whether damage was dealt is binary. 1 or more damage tokens were placed, or they weren't. The amount of damage is a numerical value that is compared to the numerical value of the creature's power. 0 damage is equal or greater than 0 toughness *and* 0 damage is not damaged. These are not conflicting statements. 
  8. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to dperello in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    Well, this conversation has gone a little off the deep end, but I can contribute here.  The tokens do have different numbers on them.  There are 1, 3, and 5 value tokens.  Also, while it is true a lack of tokens does mean zero damage, as I stated before zero is precisely the number needed to kill a zero power creature.
  9. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to twinstarbmc in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    Of course it is. It's just not the one you want.
    True, the rules do not define "damaged." Can we reasonable assume that "damaged" means "has damage tokens on it"? I believe so. So, will Save the Pack be the 0-chain board wipe you are suggesting it to be? No.
    Now, as far as being destroyed, it does not say that the creature needs damage tokens on it to be destroyed, only that the amount of damage on it be greater than or equal to its power. All creatures without damage tokens have zero damage. And thus, if a creature also has zero power, it is destroyed.
  10. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    because you're making this a philosophical discussion about the definition of zero.
    I have zero chickens on my head right now.
  11. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    that's correct, but, forget zero power, the thing in the RAW is that "if a creature has as much or more damage on it as it has power, the creature is destroyed".
  12. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    this is you writing things that simply aren't there.
  13. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    I genuinely cannot understand how you could exercise such elaborate mental gymnastics without trying to be purposefully obtuse. At some point during this reasoning you had to ask yourself "Maybe I am just trying to be difficult for the sake of being different?", right?
  14. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to dbmeboy in Is Keyforge available as advertised?   
    Ah, can't say I've played Armada.  X-Wing had issues at launch, as did Netrunner, Destiny, and L5R.  I was being a bit hyperbolic, but stock issues are at least not uncommon for FFG (apply more to launch than subsequent expansions).
  15. Haha
    TwitchyBait reacted to BigBadAndy in What is coming?   
    People play games for different reasons.  So the answers to these questions may be more or less important to you.  I bought four KeyForge decks.  Three of them feel playable but unlikely to be competetive. One feels a bit nasty for anyone not prepared for a couple of the card combinations but also probably not likely to win a tournament.  But the game is fun.  I’m happy to just play it.  I will likely buy a few more decks here and there to see what they are like because why not?  I’m not really concerned with the value of my investment over time and whether I will be rewarded with tournament success.  
    As far as long term competetive play and the cost to buy in I do think it will clearly never achieve an even playing field regardless of investment level.  If they are aggressive with chains (which people will howl about) it will encourage the kind of hoarding @Ishi Tonu is hinting at where people buy a bunch of decks, analyze them without opening them and hold onto the “good ones” to win a tournament then dump them as soon as they get chained.  If there’s anything the CCG world has taught me it’s that there is always some maniac willing to spend way more than you to win a free alt art card and a box of expansions at a tournament (seriously, the guy in last place is the one that needs all those cards...).
    Where I think KeyForge will really shine is in sealed deck formats.  This will be inherently unfair (like any sealed deck where you get random cards) but the design of KeyForge means all the decks will be playable and the tournament should tend to reward people who have played with a variety of KeyForge decks and strategies and can correctly identify and implement the best strategy for their new deck.  If they keep the buy in for a sealed deck tournament at $10-15 and you walk away with a new $10 deck that sounds like a fun afternoon to me.  And again, you should expect st least some amount of competetive consistency from players who know and understand the game and all the cards.
    I will be interested to see what happens as the release new cards and factions.  Whether this will come all at once (KeyForge Season 2) or if they just start sneaking new cards into the decks.  Similarly I see plenty of potential for new factions down the line.  But again, this is all gravy.  So far, the game seems like a fun thing to play - certainly more fun to my mind than spending $1000 on random card packs then breaking down and purchasing $1000 of individual cards to netdeck and then going to a local tournament to get stomped by guys who have spent $10,000 over 20 years to netdeck the most unfun decks imaginable that warp and pervert the game to the edge of insanity. (Maybe I have some baggage here)
  16. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    So you don't think that this excerpt from the rules would cover this scenario? if not, why?
     
  17. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    if you're gonna wait for an official ruling on every single little nitpick you have with FFG games, you will be waiting for a very long time.
  18. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from Brekekekiwi in Multiple Elusive Creatures   
    You are though, it was already clarified that your rules lawyering was wrong with the posting of a card with elusive. To support that’s the correct interpretation take this scenario
    You have two creatures with elusive, we’ll call them (A) and (B), your opponent attacks (A), it is “a creature with elusive” and “is being attacked for the first time”. Thus Elusive kicks in.
    Now your opponent attacks creature (B) it is “a creature with elusive” and “is being attacked for the first time”.
    While reminder text is not the rules, it can be used to clarify words used in a rule you find ambiguous. If you want to ignore it and waste some poor TO or Marshall’s time so be it, prepare to be dissapointed.
  19. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from Brekekekiwi in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    A lack of damage is still equivalent to 0 damage. This feels like the most extreme version of twisting words to manipulate the game. 
    So I must respectfully disagree this is anything other than people trying to split hairs to over complicate a very obvious answer. I’m not trying to be underhanded just trying to demonstrate a lack of power is represented as a 0 just like a lack of damage is 0. Out of all the questions we can get answered by the Devs this feels like such a massive waste of their time.
  20. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from Brekekekiwi in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    It is in the rules though, I quoted them. If a creature has 0 power and hasn’t been damaged it has damage on it equal to its power. No damage is 0 damage, this fits the requirements for destruction.
    If I ask you how much damage has been done to a creature with 0 damage then you would say 0. That’s equal to its power, I don’t get where the confusion is here no damage on it is equivalent to saying it has 0 damage on it.
  21. Like
    TwitchyBait got a reaction from Brekekekiwi in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    It’s needs damage equal to or greater than 0. If a creature has zero power and hasn’t been damaged then it has 0 damage on it which is equal to its power. This is not even a language issue it’s basic grade school math.
  22. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Poposhka in Will lowering power of creature to 0 kill this creature?   
    don't compare this game to other cardgames, that way leads madness.
    there is no "health" in this game, there's power and damage. If a creature has an amount of damage on it greater or equal to its power, it is destroyed.
  23. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to 10Ten in Multiple Elusive Creatures   
    You are 100% correct. 👍
    Why this is even an issue is baffling to 99.9% of us. 
  24. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to Mushra93 in Multiple Elusive Creatures   
    Do you realize you are ignoring the "it" that everybody is pointing out? You created an exemple without that "it". The elusive rule has the element you are missing: the creature with elusive must be attacked, "it" registerd the attacks, not the active player. You might be attacking for the 5th time in that turn, but that creature with elusive won't take damage if "it" is being attacked for the first time.
     
    Look at my example 
    You basically created that "WOOT!" ability this way. I think the problem is you read the elusive rule for the first time and got that conclusion. Now you are having a hard time deconstructing it. 
  25. Like
    TwitchyBait reacted to kingbobb in Multiple Elusive Creatures   
    While I'm always ready to accept rules ambiguities and point them out...and call for clarification when it's needed...I really don't see it here.
    I DO see the issue, but I don't think a clarification is necessary.  For reference, here's the language:
    “The first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn, it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight.”
    So there really ARE two ways to look at this:  There's a first time a creature with elusive is attacked, and then there's a second time (and third, fourth, etc.).  So here's the first approach:
    Attack Elusive Creature A:  Check language...is this the first time a creature with elusive has been attacked this turn? Yes, then no damage is dealt to either creature in fight.
    Attack Elusive Creature A (again):  Check language...this is NOT the first time a creature with Elusive has been attacked.  Stop, no ability is applied, creatures deal damage to each other.
    Now here's the second approach (Scenario B):
    Attack Elusive Creature A:  Check language...is this the first time a creature with Elusive has been attacked this turn? Yes, then no damage is dealt to either creature in fight.
    Attack Elusive Creature B:  Check language...is this the first time a creature with Elusive has been attacked this turn?  Yes...AND No.  No, in that this is the second time A creature with Elusive has been attacked, but ALSO yes, this is the first time THIS creature with Elusive has been attacked this turn.  So which outcome controls?  Well, there's only one trigger requirement for Elusive to activate, and that if it's the first time a creature with Elusive has been attacked this turn.  The proper trigger has been met in Scenario B, so Elusive will trigger.  
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