Khazadune
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Posts posted by Khazadune
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18 minutes ago, HorusArisen said:Yes...entire book just to explain a moment of weakness...essential
Like an entire plot about how Anakin wins a podrace just to explain how Old Ben told Luke that his father was a great pilot when he met him? Yeah, doesn’t sound like something Star Wars would do.
Notice i I didn’t say it was essential. I said it will likely happen. Like an exploration of how Darth Vader fell, its an important life character making a fateful choice that affects the galaxy.
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Just now, Cifer said:Well, we already know that Snoke influenced Ben in the exact same circumstances. Of course, Luke should be more resistant to that, but "more resistant" might still mean "gets an impulse and almost acts on it".
I just don’t see Snoke’s influence going by way of a lingering influence on Ben. If Snook was gonna influence Luke I think it would be directly. Most likely as others have stated, it’s meant to be as portrayed, and we will probably get some filler content to create an exposition to explain the lapse, as it truly is a big development in his character, and arguably a point upon which the universes fate hinges.
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The movie does go to some length to show hubris/failure and the probable route they will follow for Luke may be the “he came to believe in his own legend.” He surely sets this up fairly well throughout the film. At some point, (CGI Luke?) we may see the New Jedi temple and this failing explored in its own context, and I would line up to see it.
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2 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:Sure, one way is that he was scared and in a reflex he drew his sabre. He then immediately decided against it but was too late. Just as it happened in the movie.
Jedi even those surrounded by a large number of others are just as fallible as everyone else and if there is one thing the pt did well it was to show that.
I do think this is likely to be what we are left with for some time, but in a universe where casual comments have spawned the understanding of entire cultures (Never Tell Me the Odds! - All Corellians hate odds...) I expect they will elaborate at some point on the why of this weakness.
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5 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:Gandhi boy? Luke didn't swear off violence in Return of the Jedi.
He saw that it wasn't the path to reaching his father, but that doesn't mean he's over killing or lacks any dark impulses.Besides, not all change sticks. Just look at The Sopranos. Arguably the greatest TV show of all time and it's all about a guy failing to change. Or The Sandman, if you want a more mythic example.
How we fail to uphold our ideals is a worthwhile theme to explore.
Yeah, Gandhi boy as tongue in cheek humour based upon him being sometimes referred to as the Golden Boy, just my sense of humour, not meant to be an actual reflection on the guy we see zipping around Jabba’s Barge, tossing people into the pit of Carkoon! Lol
Thats an intriguing point about the power of such a story element! I’d love to see this as his canon reasoning with some novel detailing his time between ROTJ and Force Awakens, as his own inability to change/grow could be a great plot point!
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3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:There is some deep irony here, Snoke has been created as an entity from the unknown region which surpasses Palpatine's own power by magnitudes. Now you just assume that Palpatine's dark influence must be the reason why Luke lost his temper (which btw is imho silly), while rejecting the same to be true in case of the events 20 years later when Snoke plays the exact same game. It is highly likely that Snoke did not care one bit if he turns a Skywalker or a Solo, he just cared for having his dragon ready to be used in his plans.
Force influence is well documented, but it appears one need be present for it to work. The “temptation of the dark side” is often presented as influencing ones thoughts.
Presumably they could change this in Snook’s case and have some influence from afar be the catalyst for Luke’s momentary lapse, but I do think there are probably better ways to explain it IMHO.
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One of the other early groups are the Wookiee’s. They and the Corellians etc etc (the ones already mentioned) form the Alliance from their planetary cells.
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1 minute ago, HorusArisen said:Where the arc left our hero? That was over twenty years ago. And I’d argue shame over his father might well lead to a lapse in judgement.
True! As I said, I expect exposition to be brought forth to enuciate exactly how our Moisture Farmer turned Gandhi boy (golden boy?) got to that point. I think that’s the interesting discussion take away. In truth I expected more of that to be the focus of people’s attention after the movie finished playing.
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Just now, DanteRotterdam said:The problem in a nutshell.
“If A then he would B.”
Sorry the movie was different than what you expected but your expectations are not the basis a movie should be made by.
Maybe this is true, but I was talking about character arcs and dramatic progression to the storyline. While this is subjective to a degree, most of the basis of western storytelling is derived from Aristotle’s Poetics which give a basis to how character progression exists.
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2 hours ago, Desslok said:Did you not notice that moments before your "There's still good in him" photo that Luke totally flipped out and was doing his very best to kill Vader, that even after having Vader on his knees and completely helpless before him that Luke was thinking about finishing the act? That it took him a moment or two to come to his senses, back off and get to the "No, this is wrong" place?
It's amazing that critical thinking seems to be a lost art.
He is faced with Palpatine who is a known manipulator and massively powerful force user who was clearly using the force to influence Luke’s thoughts and feelings, trying to tempt him. This is probably the hardest moment anyone in any Star Wars film is faced with.
The problem people have with the “I murder my own nephew” is that a Jedi who faces down that kind of a threat, manages to find his calm and balance would be a changed man. He would be someone who like Anakin’s fall in the prequels, has committed himself to one side of the force. That’s not to say he need be a Gary Stu with no flaws, just that what we see of his character between then and that moment isn’t enough to justify the falling back. His character arc then feels as though it is somehow lessened because he has lost that peace and tranquility he found to defeat the confrontation with the greatest threat the galaxy had ever seen.
Can they get his character to that point through further elaboration? Sure, but for the audience that just finished seeing his Redemption of Vader and his firm commitment to sacrifice himself rather than strike an evil man down in anger, it’s a bit of a leap. I have faith that at some point they will include more exposition to flesh out the momentary lapse, but you can’t fault someone for thinking it out of character based on where that character arc has left our hero.
You may notice that I also wrote all of this without questioning your own ability’s or intelligence. Please try and offer the same courtesy to others, this is not the sort of forum that need be a toxic place.
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As several of the commenters here are no doubt aware, I’m not entirely sold on some elements of this movie but I guess I am completely unaware of the problem with flicking on the lightsaber and having it slice through him. I mean, we see this happen when Han dies. This is what I would expect a weapon made of plasma to do when it meets with anything short of cortosis, xilo hide or another lightsaber. To me, it’s not a problem. And it’s really not a problem in a game where I shoot someone half a dozen times with what would have really been lethal blows because there are RPG elements at work. If I can’t point blank execute the Mandalorian with a blaster, I can’t with a lightsaber.
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3 hours ago, Yaccarus said:The Agility 3 portion is now complete!
Thanks for the link!
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Guys, it don’t matter. For our purposes in the RPG do whatever you as GM (or your GM) thinks is best. You might like or not like the movie and what it does or doesn’t do to canon, but you aren’t convincing one another, so it’s better just to let the past die.
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There are already a few threads dealing with this topic but it usually devolves from game mechanics into a discussion of whether the movie is good or not and why. I’d say do as 2P51 suggested and allow yourself to disclude elements that might break the game/make it not fun etc.
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On 2017-12-30 at 11:30 AM, DanteRotterdam said:I am running into a problem with my party... and believe it or not I think it is a semantics issue.
They are on their way to a khiber mine crossing a century long storm as slaves on a specially designed train called “Stormpiercer” (I know... a bit on the nose). However, during the first session one of my players got sort of pissy stating this “railroading was extreme” while I have left literally everything open for them. Sure, I have some premade battles and set pieces but everything else can be dealt with in any which way they want.
Yet somehow the metaphor of it being a train journey is literally ruining the game.
“It makes no difference what I do.”
“The train will go where it is supposed to anyway.”
”So? What happens next?”
I have tried to pull them back in the game by having astrogation checks trigger memories of lost settlements in the eye of the storm. I have had speeders flank the train. I had robbers attack the carriages of the overseer under their eyes. Nothing works. And this is an experienced party with 3 years of play beneath their belts. Somehow the word “train” has broken the fourth wall and I have no idea how to built it back up without abandoning the current plot, which, ironically enough, would involve actually railroading the session.
Derail it. If they don’t like the train, lose it for some reason and have them have to decide how they deal with being in the heart of this massive storm. Maybe there are tunnels underground, maybe they see a long abandoned settlement over the next rise, maybe they want to utilize scraps of the train wreck to signal someone to come brave the storm and try and save them. If they feel that the train is the problem, remove it from play and let them respond as they see fit. Do it near the end of the session and that way you have time to adjust to whatever their solution will be.
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On 2016-04-12 at 9:47 AM, Kyla said:I tend to think it of it more abstract terms, which helped me align the appearance of troopers in the movies.
The temptation is to compare the Imperial Military to a modern military - which (while logical) is inaccurate. Soldiers are generally numerous, and perform a wide variety of functions from base guards, to Military Police, to firefighters and emergency responders. Then you have the elite special forces units which are few in number and only do crazy hard-core stuff. I see the Imperial Military as the opposite. For the most part, The Imperial Army has guard duty, filling duty stations, guarding doors, piloting ground vehicles, maintaining and outfitting the mess/chow halls. The only time we actually see the gray uniforms of the ground troops, was in the AT-AT on Hoth (Major Veers), the Maintenance crews (on the Death Star) and the AT-STs on Endor. The rest of the time we saw the black uniforms of the Imperial Navy Trooper (all over the Death Star and on the bridges of Star Destroyers). In the totalitarian world of the Empire, they are the police forces, firefighting brigades, and security guards of the Empire, fulfilling these roles in the pacified cities of the Empire. Aboard bases and starships, they are the cooks, maintenance crews, janitorial staff, and clerical workers. They are combat ready, but their duties rarely see them in positions where it was necessary. The AT-AT drivers, Imperial Gunners on the Death Star (the beakie helmeted ones), TIE Pilots and Maintenance crew were all Imperial Military Troopers.
The Stormtroopers are the combat personnel - their primary responsibility is the pacification of threats to the Empire. Anytime an organized assault is staged against the Empire, the shock troops of the Imperial war machine are unleashed. They are elite, with gear and training far above the average mercenary or security force. Most of all though, they are countless. When pacifying an entire galaxy, the Empire would want as many elite combat troops as possible. In our modern military, we consider "elite" to mean "expensive and rare." This is perfectly logical based on our world, but in terms of Star Wars, money really means nothing to the Emperor. Through power and subjugation, what he needs he gets. That means if he wants elite soldiers to be his rank and file enforcers, then he has them.
Wow, great summary. As I saw your perspective it made me think of the Roman Legions. They were elite fighting forces but for the most part they built roads, walls, forts or did garrison duty. But when called upon Legions of trained, well equipped deadly armies were there.
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On 2016-04-10 at 11:25 AM, MrMxyzptlk said:Well I've said this before but I see the Stormtrooper Armor as something they break out for situations when heavy combat is expected. Why would a soldier wear that kind of armor while inside the walls of a garrison performing maintenance duties? Certainly when out among a not yet totally cowed population they would suit up for the protection as well as the faceless enemy quality mentioned in the book.
Now, the fact that often a group of troopers will be used as a minion group, which by the rules means not that much of a challenge for PCs, what I figure is the men inside are local police that were given the armor to perpetuate the idea that the Emperor's minions are everywhere. When I want a real fight I run them as Rivals with skills and such. Those are the REAL Imperial Army soldiers in their heavy armor spoiling for a good fight. Thus the players are never sure if they are going to fight the lesser goons or the real deal unless they succeed at a Hard Knowledge Warfare check to notice differences in the tactics and style.
Behold my evil!
“Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?”
In the EU when Ysard is on Thyferra she places local troops in stormtrooper armour to give the impression they are elite troopers. They turn out to be much less effective. That kind of twist makes it fun and interesting too, I applaud your approach.
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On 2017-12-11 at 5:01 PM, Kakita Shijin said:@Absol197 Thank you. Are you aware of any available books with good rules for slicers? (Besides Special Modifications; I've got that one.)
It’s not official content or anything but it is a great read if you are inclined towards slicing;
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Can’t wait to see these shipbuilding rules. It’s supposed to be expensive, but ****, it probably should be... lol. We should have named this thread what are you gonna make?
Well, what are you all thinking?
I want to make a Firespray inspired craft. With overlapping chitinious plates (reinforced hull upgrade) and some upgraded comms and computer upgrades to reflect the my engineers Verpine background.
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Can’t wait! I like the surprise element! Thanks for doing this.
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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:I'm pointing out that you're arguing for the movie to be stupider and use more clichés.
While the device is cliche its application need not be, in fact, it’s used in nearly every scene of the movie already. For example, terming the bombs as magbombs conveys that there is some force other than gravity at work. I fail to see how that is stupid.
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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:An excellent reason not to do it.
Are you just trying to be argumentative?
Clearly devices can be overused, like Deus Ex style FTL ship’s as missiles. Sometimes they are used for expediency, sometimes because a writer has went too far down a bad path, is lazy or too stupid to write their way out of it. Sometimes the devices offer simplicity or avoid pointless bickering among fans that otherwise share the same interests.
If you can’t see the spirit of my posts and instead want to continue in anger then I hope you find redemption from your dark path. ?
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I like it, I didn’t realize this was merely the Brawn 3 listing so far, excited to see which ones you feature that aren’t in the Unofficial Species Menagerie.
How is your group handling the canon-breaking aspects of Episode 8?
in Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG
Posted
Not to take sides in this debate but you start with an assumption, that you must be close to do this, that is never made explicit either so I don’t believe we can assume it to be the case.