The things I'd want to test against it (not had the chance yet) would be:
Separately of course, and in that general order.
I think the Avenger, in conjunction with the boarding troops (as long as you have the right isd variant) could produce high enough burst damage to give the ssd a really bad day, as could the gladiator (as long as you can first/last, which shouldn't be terribly difficult against an ssd list)
Sloane concerns me a bit more because of how proficient the ssd's flak is. But the theory is fairly sound: strip the defence tokens. Those 6 defence tokens are scary, but without them the ssd can only sponge up so much damage before it pops.
Vader double cymoon might work, but I think that's completely dependent on the ssd not closing. The cymoon's will have a slight edge at long to medium range, but it's not much of an advantage since we can safely assume gunnery teams, and if it gets to close range it will just tear them up
I know this is a mostly imperial perspective, but since I don't fly rebel scum it's probably not a good idea for me to start theory crafting for them.
Working on a paint scheme for my Imperials. The front of the ship is what the end result for the entire base of the hull will be. The metallic is actually a bit darker in person. Most of the raised bits are going to be either a lighter silver or a copper color like the falcon at the bottom.
Bought it at the UKGE, played it a few times, excellent game, always a different game and very thematic. So easy my missus picked up how to play it. My last game vs @Kendraam had Han Solo, Chewbacca and the Falcon and kicked ***, how much more Star Wars can it get. I can see the expansion for it already.
This is being discussed in the warlord list builder thread....
As I said there this (IP Policy) reads more of a legal position paper which can enable them to defend their IP if required. Its publishment might be due to (as I understand it) American Law (demonstrate you can defend your IP) OR clauses with other IP holders, such as the mouse.
It is no more than what has been around for years put in to writing in a single place.
So as Ginkapo says.... nothing to see here, move along now
What do you all think of this 800 point list? It’s primary (and rather obvious) goal is to lock down the enemy fleet while the Cymoons unload on anything and everything. The two grav wells either start the lock down early or force the opponent to deploy into a narrow space, in front of which one can put several obstacles (thanks to placement and grav shift), hopefully getting some first round crits in. The defenders are just a speed bump, mostly, with the Gozers acting as activation padding and TIE pushers.
Bonus points if you get the joke of the list name.
Why putting upgrades on a lifeboat? A lifeboat want to carry the commander, and stay out of all combat. Putting this much Upgrades on a ship, that really does not want to go into combat, is just burning points for nothing. And if you are going into combat with a cheap lifeboat and full Upgrades, you can be damm sure that it will be focused down 😁.
The CR90 with Jaina's Light and TRC is fine. But a Raider I for 78+ Points (78 if you choose the cheapest commander) is way to much.
Brunson is most likely the best upgrade for a lifeboat. Or Tua+ECM.
There was a reason that Flottilas were used as lifeboat untill they changed it.
Naked Raider 1.
(optionally add External Racks to provide it with lifeboat-hunting capability)
If you want a more expensive ship that can either be a lifeboat or contribute to a fleet firepower based on the matchup:
Command Arquittens with Engine Tech (and extra loadout based on points available/rest of the fleet) - it is very slippery even as a second player. The ability to start at speed 2 and with nav command round 1 be anywhere from 90 to the left or right (speed 1 + ET) to speed 4 forward or angled (speed 3 + ET) makes it very hard to catch even if significantly outdeployed.
As mentioned in the article, the delays are due to the model. So the rules are ready yes? Please give us a full rules preview that will last us to Q3! There are still several unrevealed things such as the huge ship ramming rules and how certain commanders/upgrades apply to huge ships. Would like a full rundown so we can listbuild more accurately in anticipation of it!
Xposted from Reddit. Saturday Mar 30, 2019, saw the final Worlds matchup at Adepticon. The final match was Rebel v. Imperial, with Nathan Coda flying General Rieekan against Dennis Raschke's (@tokra) Admiral Sloane. Both fleets, including objectives, can be seen at this link. All errors here are my own, please pm or comment and I'll fix what I can.
**Note:** After learning FFG did not plan on recording, filming and commentators were assembled on-site within hours of the 2019 World Finals match by volunteer community members from people and equipment available. The recorded livestream can be watched in full at this link. Please bear this in mind and communicate your displeasure about quality directly to FFG. I think the volunteers did very well, certainly better than nothing, and I'm hoping this post might be useful for clarifying events and jumping around the recording to interesting points. I also hope it will be useful for the visually impaired or for listening without visual aids, so please forgive me for writing details which are visually obvious. I did not, however, watch with the commentary on, so please let me know if they had good comments I should cite in this play-by-play.
**Terms:** The left edge of the Imperial setup zone from the perspective of the Imperial player will be called 'Imperial Left,' and we will use Imperial Right, Rebel Left, and so on as appropriate, as well as *port* for left relative to the direction of travel of a specifically mentioned ship (only if that's the least confusing frame of reference) and *starboard* for right in the same context, as in 'Maarek is bumped, and is placed on *Admonition's* port side.'
For new players or those confused about the fleets, you might want to check the end of game commentary section on fleet composition to understand how these lists consistently beat the popular two-ship and other favorite lists during regionals and worlds.
**Setup** (00:08:16 - 00:24:25) saw Rebels win the initiative bid 395-397, and they choose to go 2nd. Imperials choose the objective Most Wanted. Rebels choose the *Quantum Storm* GR75 and *Centicore* Arquitiens-class command cruiser, making *Quantum Storm* worth 44 pts (+18) and *Centicore* worth 134 pts (+59), a differential of up to 41 pts, and granting advantages to attacks on each per the card.
Obstacles are scattered by the players through the central play area at approx. distance 5 from each other, except one debris field and asteroid at distance 1 from each other near Imperial Left.
**Imperial Fleet Setup**: The Imperials place 3 close-packed ships on the Imperial Right. *Centicore* (Command Arquitiens carrying Captain Brunson, Engine Techs, and title) and *Squall* (Quasar-Fire-I carrier, with flight controllers, boosted comms, skilled first officer, and title), are facing the rebels but *Squall* is aimed toward Imperial Right 3' edge at an approx. 45 degree angle. A supporting Gozanti flotilla (carrying comms net, no title) is located on the edge of the setup zone nearest to the opponent, facing directly parallel to the long edge of the play area, and is pointed away from the 3' edge on the Imperial Right. The other Gozanti flotilla (also carrying comms net, no title) is facing directly toward the first Gozanti and the Imperial Right along the setup zone edge nearest the opponent, and they are approx. distance 5 from each other. The Raider corvette (Raider-I flagship carrying Admiral Sloane and Hondo Ohnaka) is in lifeboat position in the corner of the Imperial Left farthest from their opponent facing directly toward the Imperial Right. The Imperial Squadrons are at nearest possible deployment to opponent in two rows out past *Centicore* and Gozanti, 5 in row nearest opponent and 3 in row behind. The details are difficult to discern but Ciena Ree is farthest from *Squall* in the front row of 5, on the far Imperial Left, Dengar is in the back row nearest *Squall/Centicore* on the Imperial Right, Jendon looks to be in center of front row, Maarek/Valen/Mauler/Howl/Saber filling out ranks.
**Rebel Fleet Setup**: The Rebel Positioning of 2x GR75 flotillas mirrors the Imperial flotilla positioning, with *Quantum Storm* (GR75 Transports carrying Slicer Tools and title) farthest from Centicore/Squall on the Rebel Right and *Bright Hope* ( GR75 Transports carrying Toryn Farr and title) facing away from the Rebel Left. Rebel corvette *Jaina's Light*, (CR90A Corellian Corvette carrying Turbolaser Reroute Circuits and title), CR90B corvette (CR90B Corellian Corvette carrying Heavy Ion Emplacements and Engine Techs, no title), and *Admonition* (MC30 Torpedo frigate flagship carrying General Rieekan, Lando Calrissian, Ordnance Experts, External Racks, title Admonition), are in line abreast facing directly toward their opponent in the middle of their setup zone. The *Admonition* is on Rebel Right, the CR90B is in the center of the line, the *Jaina's Light* is on the Rebel Left nearest Bright Hope. Rebel squadrons (Hera, Dash, Wedge, Dutch, Gold) arrayed near *Bright Hope* on Rebel Left with one squadron (Ketsu?) nearer center of setup zone.
**Round 1** (00:24:25 - 00:44:55) sees repositioning maneuvers and token storage, no attacks, jump to 00:44:55 to view the end of turn 1. Offensive elements of both fleets are headed toward 3' edge nearest *Squall* carrier and *Centicore* light cruiser. Rebel corvettes and *Admonition* frigate have accelerated and veered in this direction. *Centicore* has turned in this direction and maintains speed 1, *Squall* likewise with *Centicore* between it and Rebels. Flotillas on both sides facing this 3' edge (Rebel Left/Imperial Right) have continued forward, with the Gozanti accelerating and yawing to starboard past its doppelganger to catch up to *Squall* and *Centicore*. The *Bright Hope,* Rebel flotilla nearest *Centicore,* sharply turned to face the Imperial setup zone while the Imperial Gozanti nearest *Centicore* continues straight to Imperial Left at low speed. Rebels have spread their squadrons in the direction of the engagement on the Rebel Left, distanced between one full range ruler and an additional distance 3 from their 6' edge. Imperials have kept squadrons close-packed near *Squall*, to the rear of *Centicore*, and claimed a nearby asteroid. The Imperial lifeboat has turned away from all engagement and is headed toward the Imperial Left.
**Round 2** (44:55-1:13:30) sees *Centicore* activate first with reposition at speed 1, then CR90B activates and repositions past the *Bright Hope* on the Rebel Left. *Squall* activates, uses its title to move forward Dengar, Saber, and Howl, and attacks with 5 squadrons using token. Dash is dropped and removed from the board by flight controlled, Howl, Saber, and Dengar, and Wedge is attacked by flight controlled Ciena and Valen. Rebels activate nearby transports, Bright Hope. Imperials activate off-screen transports (or possibly raider) and activate Mauler via *Centicore*, finishing Wedge who is retained by Rieekan and damaging all remaining rebel squadrons. Rebels activate *Admonition*, no shots. Imps activate off-screen Gozanti to activate Maarek and Jendon for two shots on *Bright Hope*- removing/using its scatter and damaging its rear shields. Rebels activate *Quantum Storm*, Imps activate other Gozanti and give sq token to *Squall* w/comms net. **Squadron phase** (@1hr:08) sees Mauler and Ciena drop but their counter, thanks to Dengar/Howl/Swarm, deals significant damage back. Wedge is removed at the end of the turn when Rieekan ends.
**Round 3** (1:13:30 - 1:38:13 in video) begins with *Squall* activation with token from comms net last round, boosted comms/flight controllers/sloane allowing it to push Saber Squadron to attack and kill Gold squadron, Valen and Howlrunner kill Hera, Jendon gives his attack to Maarek to hit the rear of the *Bright Hope* (kill, Rieekan sustains). *Squall* moves forward at speed 1. Rebels activate CR90B, single side arc on *Centicore* and no joy with [Heavy Ion Emplacements](https://starwars-armada.fandom.com/wiki/Heavy_Ion_Emplacements) (possibly brunson'd), possibly uses flak, and moves in to block directly in front of *Squall* using engine techs. Imperials activate on-screen Gozanti, comms net a sq token onto the *Squall*, advance gozanti at speed 3 near rear of *Squall*. Rebels activate *Jaina's Light*, attack *Centicore*, no damage, advance into front of *Centicore* at speed 4. Imperials activate Raider(uncertain), Dengar misses atk on *Jaina's Light* and retreats near *Centicore*, Maarek moves in to attack side arc of *Jaina's Light*. Rebels activate *Quantum Storm*, speed 3. Imperials activate off-screen Gozanti (uncertain). Rebels activate *Bright Hope* and advance on *Centicore* at speed 3. Imperials activate *Centicore* and Ackbar Slash out both sides, 2+ damage on CR90B nose and no visible impact on other side (Firing on *Admonition* through obstruction from *Bright Hope*?). *Centicore* advances at speed 2 + 1 (Engine Techs). Rebels activate the *Admonition* and advance into the fray at flank speed (speed 4), bump maarek who stays off Admonition's port side. Cameraperson zooms in on the action. **Squadron Phase**: Ketsu attacks nose of *Centicore*, *Bright Hope* comes off the board (Rieekan).
**Round 4** (1:47:00 - 2:18:54)
Pause/Discussion/offscreen events till *Centicore* activates, damages front of *Jaina's Light*, nav/engine techs to safety off-screen. Rebels activate the CR90B, attack *Squall* front arc with HIE dual-arc and get both, nav+ET to safety off-screen. The *Squall* activates, kills Ketsu with Maarek + Howl + Saber, Saber moves off-screen in front of *Jaina's Light*, Jendon->Maarek attacks *Jaina's Light* (confirmation at 2:17:36, *Jaina's Light* is dead and sustained by Rieekan) *Squall* side arc attacks *Admonition*, there is a question about dual arc on *Admonition*, [with a classic resolution via range ruler](https://youtu.be/BeVxAFouQg8?t=7299). *Squall* moves forward at speed 2. Rebel player activates (now on-screen) *Quantum Storm*, activates Dutch and damages port side arc shield of *Centicore*, advances at speed 4 (using *Quantum Storm* title). Imps activate ??? (off-screen, either transport or raider), activate Dengar via *Centicore* who misses and moves to make Dutch heavy. Rebels activate *Jaina's Light* and dual-arc *Squall*, yea, unto death, then move around behind *Centicore* very near the 3' edge of the board (Rebel Left/Imperial Right). Imperials activate off-screen. Rebels activate *Admonition*, no shots, very careful maneuver ending to the rear of *Centicore* in close range. **Squadron Phase:** Jaina's light comes off the board (Rieekan).
**Round 5** (2:18:54), the commentators are worth hearing at this moment. Prior to resolving turn 5, the referee notes that during turn 4 the Imperial player had forgotten to move a Gozanti and the rebel player had forgotten to replace Maarek on the board after moving *Admonition*. Neither contestant has issues with immediate resolution of these, after which they continue on to turn 5.
The first activation is a critical moment- can the *Centicore*, Imperial Most Wanted, kill or avoid the Rebel Most Wanted *Quantum Storm* blocking easy movement, and/or escape its current position dual-arc'd by *Admonition's* front and side. *Admonition's* combination of expanded racks and ordnance experts make a close range attack near certain death for the shield-damaged *Centicore*. *Centicore* has low/no shields but an intact hull, has Captain Brunson with Engine Techs, but has had a concentrate fire command sliced onto it by *Quantum Storm*.
The *Centicore* fires on the *Admonition*, inflicting 2 damage at close range on 3 red shots w/crit, and a clutch concentrate fire addition rolls a 2 damage face on red. Lando is discarded to force a reroll on all four, the reroll is 4 damage incl 2 visible crits, *an identical result*. The *Centicore* opts for a rear arc shot on the *Admonition* as well, putting 2 addl damage on side arc shields. Maneuvering *Centicore* begins at 2:22:27- with the critical goal of escaping its position relative to *Admonition*. The *Centicore* is currently at speed 1 and has a nav token for engine techs or a speed change, but *Quantum Storm* is in a good blocking position.
2:26:08, *Centicore* locks in movement tool at 1 click to starboard (right, relative to the long axis of the *Centicore*). Dennis, the Imperial player, accidentally moves the *Quantum* a very small amount when moving *Centicore*, neither player contests the completed speed 1 movement or Nathan, the Rebel player, nudging the *Quantum Storm* back into position (the video evidence suggests the tiny accidental movement was too small to impact the conclusion of *Centicore's* speed 1 movement, Nathan nudged the transport back into position, it's all on video and these are the two top players in the world.). *Centicore* attempts to engine techs around *Quantum*, successfully completes a *very close* movement.
The players agree to call the game at this point.
**Dennis Raschke and Imperial Admiral Sloane are victorious over Nathan Coda and Rebel General Rieekan.**
***End of game commentary:***
**Why the game ended now, early in turn 5:** In early turn 5, the Imperials are up by only 28, but they are close to gaining 112 additional points, maybe more. *Centicore* has escaped the *Admonition* close-range threat in round 5, and it won't come again because the Imperials have the first activation in round 6. The *Centicore* title allows the fleet to activate squadrons through it, so the Imperial squadron superiority translates into significant further damage throughout rounds 5 and 6, particularly through Maarek/Jendon. There's no possibility of *Centicore* dying in normal play, while Imperials may gain additional points by finishing *Admonition*, Dutch, and/or *Quantum Storm*. The Rebel CR90B is safe but damaged and not placed to factor meaningfully in turns 5 and 6. The Imperial Raider and Gozantis are safe enough and can push squadron commands through Centicore. The Rebels had a chance of preserving *Admonition* and killing *Centicore* for 134 points, which could have swung the game, but the successful engine techs movement in particular does away with that. You can see the players going through some of the hypotheticals after calling the game, like 'what if Imperials hadn't successfully completed the ET move, did *Admonition* have *Centicore* in close range,' if you're interested in those scenarios, but believe me they would've kept at it if the conclusion were unclear.
**Fleet Composition Notes:** For new players trying to understand how these strange but similar fleets could make the finals, these two fleets are capable of countering the common fleets in mid to high level play throughout the regionals season and past year since [a major rules update in April of 2018](https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/4/6/new-fleet-orders/), right before Worlds 2018 but . A common fleet variant in the past year among competitive players has been the 'Imperial two-ship,' which uses Governor Pryce to enable a powerful last activation in one turn early activation in the next turn attack, with [a thorough write-up here on steel command](http://www.steelstrategy.com/2018/10/armada-meta-deep-dive-imperial-two-ship.html?showComment=1541072213719). Both of these fleets are made to do well against the two-ship (source: [ Raschke, aka Tokra, here](https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/292839-two-ship-dominates-final-regionals-2018-2019-data-analysis/?do=findComment&comment=3664284) and [here](https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/292839-two-ship-dominates-final-regionals-2018-2019-data-analysis/?do=findComment&comment=3664041), those threads have more commentary as well)) by virtue of
* being very difficult to completely kill, an event called being 'tabled,' worth a full 400 points to the winner,
* having enough squadrons who are excellent at killing other squadrons to counter *Squall*-based two-ship fleets,
* having enough defensive dice mitigation and maneuver capacity to mitigate powerful attacks from ISD-II GT variants,
* having enough bombing capacity to kill a heavy ISD in 3 turns if in possession of squadron superiority, and
* through highly beneficial objectives.
They also both have a lot of activations and some ability to command squadrons without the rest of the fleet present- Centicore on the imperial side and Hera on the rebel side.
Finally, avoiding the favored archetype is less of a risk because they are flown by commanders good enough to deal with other types of fleet than just the ones popular in 2019. Nathan is the 2018 World Champion, and Dennis is a multiple-time champion of Germany, and both have won multiple regional tournaments this year, so both are very skilled at things like [inside turns](http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/11/tips-and-tricks-inside-turns.html), using fragile-but-deadly Saber without losing them, choosing Wedge over Dash with Rieekan before knowing Wedge would die, and using deployment to win before round 1 starts.
Yes, this is a very similar problem. On the one had, I see the appeal of something like "set your tool to a legal move on your edge of the table, THEN commit to it, take the tool to your ship, plug it in, and execute the move." Takes it more to like X-Wing where you dial in a move (even without knowing how the rest of the board state will be changing before your ship finally moves), which I'm not sure is a good or bad thing.
I'm probably a bit biased because my last two big tourney experiences each had multiple opponents that had something ranging from Analysis Paralysis to Precision Indecision to Meticulousness Fickleness. They were nice, good players certainly playing without any ill intent or any desire to "game" the clock by stalling, but uggggghhh. Those sorts of games feel more like I'm part of a team taking survey data measurements for the city manager's office and less like I'm a geek spending my rare me-time vacation time playing a fun game. And I say this as someone who adores Chess and Blood Bowl, which are certainly slow, complex, meticulous games in their own ways. But they both benefit by having discreet spaces on the board for pieces to exist in, and sidestep the mind-numbing endless measuring and range-checking that has come to define, in my experience, competitive Armada.
But you know, I'm fulling willing to admit that maybe it's NOT YOU, IT'S ME, ARMADA. Maybe my own subjective gaming preferences have evolved in a way such that the slow fiddiliness of Armada, squadron play especially, is just not the sort of gaming experience that brings me the sort of joy it once did anymore. Maybe Armada hasn't gotten slower and fiddlier, maybe I've just gotten less patient. And that's okay too.
Initially I put this into a response on the speculative 2.0 thread, but the more I think about it the more I think it warrants its own space.
So, two common areas of Armada that players often point to as spaces with room for improvement: (1) Squadron Play is Fiddily and (2) The Game Takes a Long Time
I think a way to positively address both of those is to eliminate the opportunity for pre-measuring anything and everything except for ship movement tools.
The worst sort of drudgery is when two squad-heavy lists square off and both players are painstakingly meticulous with them. We all want players who are careful and precise, of course, as sloppiness leads to ruined game states. But I don't think we want players who spend 1-2 minutes on each squadron's move as they pre-measure to two or three possible destinations, then pre-measure from each of those to all the relevant range-related things (engagements, flak fire, support abilities, friendly ship command range, etc.), then finally commit to one location and spend time sliding and nudging their squadron as they check all those ranges more precisely. But you cannot fault a player for doing this, as millimeters matter, especially in the squadron game since so many things are range-relevant from the squadron's location.
Frankly, the best way to speed this up would be to just deny the opportunity for the ultra-anal analysis paralysis. If Armada got rid of its default "premeasure anything, anytime, except maneuvers" the game would speed up exponentially. If you could only measure ranges from a ship when it is activating and is about to declare something range-relevant (like attacks or resolve a squadron command or check for Toryn after rolling blue dice, etc.) that would cut out so many minutes of time spent checking that stuff at all points of the game and before and after each decision opportunity. If the only thing you could measure when you picked up and moved a squad was (1) whether or not engagement prevents it from moving AND then (2) the distance it was moving (to make sure it moved within it's legal range), I mean Lord Have Mercy we'd probably cut almost an hour from the playtime of squadron-heavy games between two meticulous and thorough players. There would also be a much higher element for "skill" (or, at least, experience) to play a role, as players would have to judge a lot of the distances as they were committing their squadron to its new spot. Come up just 1mm short of being able to attack that enemy squadron because you were too conservatively trying to avoid a counterattack from the other enemy squadron behind it? Well, tough cookies. Then there would be a lot more risk/reward decision to make in placing a squadron with how aggressive you wanted to be in an optimized spot balanced against how conservatively you wanted to be with making sure you were satisfying certain range considerations. But that seems drastically preferable to me over watching my opponent spend 3 Minutes checking to see if there's any possible spot he can slide his squadron that would give him Engagement on Squad X and Y, avoid Engagement with Squads A, B, and C, be at Range 1 of Friendly Squads I and III, be in command range of Friendly Ship Alpha and be just out of flak range of Enemy Ship S while being only in a single flak arc of Enemy Ship T. <-- This crap right here needs to go if the speed and enjoyability of squad-heavy Armada games is ever going to improve, ESPECIALLY SO before we start putting 600pts of collective squadrons onto the board... lol.
Ugh, even just thinking of all this fiddly minutia measuring of squadrons as I type it all out and remember the worst of my slowest tournament opponents I just want to throw my collection up on the Swap and Sell. In my opinion, the only real fix to the Armada Squadron Fiddiliness (which is a huge part of it's time length problem often times) is to radically speed it up, and the way to do that is to eliminate the free-pass to measuring that the game allows for and force players to make eyeball judgments as they commit their pieces to the board (which is something X-Wing 2.0 has moved toward, since now if you misjudge ranges/locations and fail an action you lose your action entirely, rather than being able to just try something else like in 1.0). This is better than just lowering the squadron cap, I think, because it doesn't invalidate anyone's collection, still allows for thematic squadron-heavy builds, and would speed and tighten the game up in other non-squadron areas as well.