When I want to read fantasy I just read Trumps tweets....ok I'll just show my self out....

CMON are so light on when it comes to rules for their games, not a fan of Zombieside though Blood Rage is good. http://resources.cmon.com/SIF-RULEBOOK-WIP.pdf I think it is a backward step in game design, fistfuls of dice and then an armour save. Not very progressive rule making there. The move mechanic is a bit simple so there isn't any setting up charges or blocking, you can just pivot and go around stuff. Random charge length, wierd they picked that up.

I used this on the weekend to kill Hawthorn from a distance. Got the first 3 wounds off him before he engaged. The used a backwards shift to take off his last wound. I used trumpets. Doing a banked charge gets you more fowards range. Very effective as Maro was embedded in a 2x2 (Ardus List) so was constantly bumping the unit up.so it then countercharged a big block of spear men for the win.

They have different roles and that's why it is hard to compare. They will do fundamentally things in your games so a one-for-one comparison whilst an interesting intellectual idea sometimes doesn't yield the results you might be looking for. I'd find value on like-for-like comparisons such as Crossbows v Reanimate Archers v Deepwood Archers.

Failed post.

Back to solo Ardus. As with so much in the Waiqar army synergy is everything. So far Ancient Technique has appeared to be the default option for the reroll but have people been trying Ardus Fury and then dialing up a surge. Near a unit with Front Line Carrion Lancer attacking a unit with a blight token that is a guaranteed 2 mortal wounds. With the white dice there's a good chance of 3 mortal wounds. Add either reaping blade for the blank results or Fortuna's Dice for a precise or extra mortal wounds and all of a suddenly Ardus takes out Hawthorn in 2 turns (without worrying about that defense 5 Hawthorn can dial up). He can remove any model upgrade in big blocks. 42-44pts.

This how I've been running him. He usually gets at least 6 trays up in a game. Acts as a good flank protector or counter charger. I add trumpets and blighted vellum. 51 pts.

All good choices, I might give them a go. But FLCL looks cool. Also Ardus can tap its surge ability of nearby.

I agree totally. Maro is much better as a unit upgrade. In a 2x2 reanimates block he shines.

Well yes there are some up points. Wind rune reanimate archers here I come.

From a card upgrade perspective was anyone else disappointed that we didn't get a third new card? We already knew that the support and frontline unit upgrades were coming but I would have liked to see something only Rune Goleme and Carrion Lancers could use.

I'm thinking that a build of 6 2x1 archer units might be viable. The shiftyness of them may be a hard counter for that goddamned Spearstar. Simply never let it hit you. I'm leaning towards getting two army boxes and then one of each of the expansions. I had thought I'd get away with only one army box.

I can very much see the theory behind the use of overgrown and think it's a cool mechanic. But the practice is going to take, excuse me, practice. The elves are certainly not going to be a beginner army if you want full use out of the overgrown mechanic.

Absolutely will be interesting. Just to check, to make a terrain piece overgrown the army needs upgrade cards which say "Overgrow X"? So the Verdant Sorceress will enable two Overgrown tokens? Not to be too contrary as I am actually excited to play this army but I'm not too sure how much you'll be able to utilise the terrain. Many times you'll be wanting to pick the scenario card which will often mean you'll only be placing 1 piece of terrain. Canny opponents will place their 2 pieces at extreme ends of the board to try an negate the use of overgrown terrain.

Is it just me or does the elven army have a weird dichotomy at the core of its construction? On the one hand there's a whole lot of shifts which seem to encourage you to stay disengaged and therefore being out in the open to be able to achieve this seems like a solid plan. But on the other hand the use of overgrown encourages the army to stay close to the terrain and use its ability to enhance your units. This would seem to encourage play which would see your units being engaged as they aren't as nimble due to being anchored to within range 1-2 of the overgrown terrain. Any thoughts on that?

As always the local meta, i.e. what your friends take, impacts on the effectiveness of unit choices.

Has anyone tried a 2x1 unit of archers with Wind Runes and Combat Ingenuity? Waiqar have so few units with equipment upgrades I haven't really seen how this might play out? Can it get your archers into play earlier yet without being threatened?

There's a few armies in there. Chaos of two flavours - Nurgle and Khorne Imperial Guard A Battle Company of Blood Angels A Great Company of Space Wolves Inquisition with Henchmen, Grey Knights and Arbites Sisters of Battle Orks Imperial Knights Tau Dark Eldar WHFB WHFB High Elves Tomb Kings Napoleonic 1812 Prussians 300 or so mageknights re-based with clear bases, used in rpgs Xwing - Imperial Mordheim - Shadow Warriors, Reiklanders, Chaos Beastmen Waiqar RWM Who knows how much money but I can state with great confidence that the enjoyment quotient is high.

I just wanted to echo the sentiments above. Miniature table top games are not the same beast as board games. It's a costly beast if you let it take over but so much of this hobby is about 25% painting, 25% modeling, 25% list building and about 25% playing. Also every game is absolute different from the last. This is what a serious gamer has in his basement, this is with my Mordheim, half my 40k Orks and my Runewars packed up ready for gaming on the weekend.

Yes the Spearstar and Maro are hard counters for one another. IMHO the Spearstar comes off better in a straight match though, especially with dispatch runner. 30 damage>12 regen.

You trying to cheat again Rob? Here's Maro, cause I wouldnt mind it being added as well.

American business trips? How come your fries costs so much?

Well the Maro part of the list worked great. He raised 7 trays rarely was down a model. A great unit I think. I sadly let myself down by not generating enough blight to slow down the spearstar. I had one unit of archers to wide on the flank and the other was backing up from Hawthorn all game. Basically I gave away the initiative.

I think Waiqar players are suffering from not having either a couple of cheap fast redirectors, such as the Carrion Crawler or something which can hit hard and fast like the death knights. I'm struggling to stop the death star particularly as it gets a second swing from a support unit nearby with dispatch runner. If you can redirect the deathstar and hit the support unit the list starts to struggle but I have yet to get on top it.

This came up in a game we played today. I'm leaning towards taking points off from the original size at army deployment. It can make a properly played Maro list very strong but then you need this against the spearstar which is often putting out 12-16 points of damage a round.