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Watercolour Dragon

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  1. Watercolour Dragon

    Enfid's Miniature Collection for Terrinoth

    True, beastmen should by nature look a little unkempt (a bit like me when burnt out mid-working-week!)
  2. Watercolour Dragon

    The Land Endures

    Me too, sometimes FFG things don't hang around for long enough for people to actually save up for them, which may be another weakness in their strategy (I was going to complete my 1st edition Descent, then it got scrapped for 2e, RWM seems to be vanishing from UK shops, when I purchased Runewars you couldn't get the 'Banners of War' expansion anymore.... Completing RWM (even based on only getting what one would like) is pricey so I can't just go out and get it all in one go (hence the fact breathers between new releases are sometimes a good thing) but there is that worry will it be like first edition Descent again- hard to get hold of.
  3. Watercolour Dragon

    The 3rd Edition probably will not happen

    Uniting discussions around this, other recent developments and past discussions, FFG could actually do something really awesome with Terrinoth if they're brave and creative enough, and the things that DO work in the new game may inspire some of it, so maybe a bit of a Terrinoth hiatus could be a good thing, if they step back from it and really look at what they could do with the game world.... https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/289043-the-land-endures/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-3595324 So come on FFG, make Terrinoth THE go to fantasy game setting *keeps hoping*
  4. Watercolour Dragon

    The Land Endures

    @Viktus106 This is similar to my thoughts- if FFG continued to build up the world - that they own - and made it what it could be then I don't see why it couldn't be as alluring as the IP worlds they seem to be a bit over-focused on at the moment, yet somehow there's a constant niggling thought that they're not quite selling it as well as they could. I do sometimes wonder about FFG's promotional skills mainly on the excitement/following building front- there are brand new games on KS that generate lots of hype, established rivals that have big followings- yet FFG seem to have something that doesn't quite cut it, they somehow seem to run out of steam, only an impression from the conversations other people in my gaming community don't start about FFG games vs those they do start about other games, but there's just that subtle hint that somehow FFG aren't quite generating the excitement about their games (even the IP ones). Maybe not quite exactly as per your ideas but if they were very clever - they'd have to get this just right so people got on board with it - why not be really brave and ditch the standalone games (not exactly, I'll come back to this) - put everything under a new game line entity 'Legends of Terrinoth' or something like that. Use the overlaps. I know some forum posters have said how things like overlapping figures haven't worked in the past (although I don't know how true this is) but if FFG got it right there's no reason why it wouldn't work- I know several people who have crossed over the different Terrinoth games or even if they've not mixed them in that way have got into more than one of the games, and there have been some things that could have been better this way- instead of having x different versions of a piece in different games (or even sometimes the same piece in different games- I think I now own three Zylas!) there is a way you could bring Terrinoth under one umbrella, with common pieces such as quality sculpts, alongside separate modules for different gameplay environments (RWM, Descent.....). You could even do really clever stuff with terrain tiles that work across different games, if you think of the evolution of tiles for LOTR Journeys why not expand on that varied type idea- starting with landscape mapsheets, then larger area possibly hex tile maptiles down to close up maptiles (the sort you have now in Descent 2) and expansions that have new options for not just one game format. I'm sure if done really well this could be one way to tick that how do we make our fantasy world THE fantasy world. Battlelore ending doesn't matter as there's a Battlelore-like way to play the 'Legends of Terrinoth' offering Runewars could still exist within this. Runewars Miniatures could still exist within this (with a high quality benchmark standard of figures, although this is the only difficult choice from a dev angle- some like me would want paintable, others may want prepainted, some may want cheap instead or even card tokens, so deciding what to offer that worked for all games and preferences could be tricky as my idea would be that there's one set of figures/equivalent that cover all the game types), perhaps there are card tokens and figure alternatives, not sure what would be best but common figures help on sales risk to a degree- each game along with tabletop RPG'ers is a market. Descent could be part of this and finally 'complete', however it evolves keeping the best of 1 and 2 (some of which- even 2 as the quest vault's out of date- is still lacking) Maybe there's an amazing suite of apps too, ideally optional although it may be essential for certain types of gameplay, even better it has built in workshop ability- players can not only create their own adventures but make the app work with them. One game world brand could offer many types of gameplay options from card to app driven adventure to miniatures battle, in some cases solo to multiplayer, fully co op or with overlord (it's a way Descents overlord could be kept for those who like it or replaced through the app or other means for those who don't) Being really clever (although you'd have to work through a few headscratching how-do-we-do-thises to get there) you could even find a way to make one set of core hero/ adversary cards work for all games, each game would need I'm thinking some unique cards too, or something that made such a system work, possibly pairing a game-specific card with the generic character/entity card - you could still have a card only game in the setting. Over time you can build up the range to get more sales - scenery, terrain tiles etc, if it grows, or just keep releasing the lines if they just level out. So so many possibilities if you just thought outside the (yes I am going to do this and yes you'll hate me for it) game box Terrinoth is currently NOT used as much- or as well- as it could be which seems crazy for something FFG own, it's not going to be lost as an IP isn't renewed or becomes too expensive (which could easily happen with IP things- a certain digital pinball company has just taken a massive hit from losing a major IP- and a rival company now has that IP) so it surprises me that FFG don't make more of that which is their own, especially when it's fantasy and people LOVE fantasy (even the generic staples of fantasy like dragons, wizards, undead are familiar things people love to latch onto). FFG seem to underestimate the potential value of something they seeded and own. Doing something clever like this and messing it up, it's worth mentioning, could be a disaster. But imagine doing something clever like this and getting it REALLY right. That could be seriously awesome. And it CAN work as I'm already getting some epic fanmade ideas from mashing up content and kit from different Terrinoth games. FFG have fallen behind a bit versus some of their rivals whose product output has moved on in leaps and bounds so FFG need to catch up and retake the lead their already awesome games deserve. They COULD do something that really innovates and amazes. FFG I lay down the Gauntlet (sorry wrong game, watch out for all them ghosts)
  5. Watercolour Dragon

    Can it be played without the app?

    Would agree on these points, and Asmodee are doing a lot in the digital realm, even for those of us who prefer apps to be an optional thing for a game rather than an essential (which is my standpoint) it's worth also realizing that it can be a good way for board games to continue to hold their own against digital rivals, plus it gets them extra exposure (such as Descent having a visibility on Steam and so on). Also if the app's really good then it becomes worth us oldskoolers adapting to the change! Descent's app showed what apps can bring to games. There remains that frustration though which is a potential barrier to sales- for those of us that don't own a tablet there's the extra expense of having to buy a tablet or laptop to take the game to game meets (it's not too practical to take the desktop and you really want a bigger screen than a phone), so, potential extra cost- tablets / laptops aren't cheap. So yes, the app does need to be really good if it's essential for the game, but with FFG/Asmodee's digital teams I think it will be, which might be another thing that starts to win us tech-escapers over. So still mixed feelings as I use lots of tech but still have some fors/againsts with tech plus games, not all of them unjustified- social interaction's already being damaged by people looking at phones (which does happen a lot, think some people have more phonescreen contact than eye contact these days!), and even the irony that a lot of the discussions like we have on here used to happen in vocal conversation, so I guess we can't escape tech. Me: moan apps moan *observes fact comment being typed in digital forum* Computer says Gotcha *adds tablet to gamer shopping list*
  6. Watercolour Dragon

    The 3rd Edition probably will not happen

    ... and also (following on from subtrendy2) if it delays the next Terrinoth 'stuffs' a little my wallet will be happy - I still have a Terrinoth shopping list I'm gradually ticking off! (Times you wish you were better paid for your job lol)
  7. Watercolour Dragon

    Can it be played without the app?

    Another pro of apps of course is it's also another way to get the tech generation board gaming and to venture out of the digital realm a bit, which is good for board games generally!
  8. Watercolour Dragon

    The Land Endures

    I think Terrinoth will evolve as a setting- FFG have only recently started growing it in terms of bringing together and building on the lore with Realms of Terrinoth and some aspects of RWM, the realm does seem slightly in wind-down at the moment but it's still getting sales and a following, especially Descent-wise. If RWM does drop down it will be a missed opportunity for some amazing legendary figures and creatures (I was hoping for dragons and a pegasus). The wind-down may be as some sort of Terrinoth 'refresh' is in the wings, and FFG have claimed to be working on 'stuff' for Descent (unless that ended up as LOTR Journeys of course). Games do go through dormant periods then suddenly come back- even some of the Terrinoth games vanished historically but then there was a surprise new edition. It can be the nature of games- they hit critical mass then slow down sales wise (or fail to hit the needed peak), then get eclipsed by the currently peaking games, perhaps going out of print, but often if the game was very popular it may eventually return when it's had enough of a breather to potentially hit critical mass again (or if it didn't quite work sales-wise to try a new strategy). And the biggest games can have quite length development and playtesting and production periods even if they're based on an earlier version. It's not a 'fast' industry due to its heavily creative nature (you know that creating fan stuff such as campaigns and adventures- it's a lot of slog even though it's worth it for the finished creation, which many might see as akin to an artwork, if you've hopefully created something good!) I like that Terrinoth's partly generic (which is especially useful for RPG'ing and other areas where familiarity with something is helpful) and that it also has some unique ideas like Skarn. I still really love it as a setting and there's also enough lore to pick the bits of interest. I think it's undervaluing it somewhat to say it's not a great and well developed fantasy setting, however... I do think they need to get more creative with it now and come up with some new ideas, new approaches and new aspects that make it feel like they've built on the world creatively, perhaps part of the reason it may feel a little stale is how much the competition's ramped up recently from other games alongside the fact it has now been around for a while and perhaps evolved a little less than some of these rival games- the new RPG launched with Eliza Farrow, Heroes of Terrinoth with Splig which isn't a bad thing as such - one of the things I love with the fan projects I'm working on is using such 'expected' established characters (sometimes with a twist), but using them in the first of a new release may have the downside that a lot of people might think it's a bit 'nothing much new', it's a hard circle to square as ditching stuff, especially favoured characters, can go down badly too, I miss some of the things that never made it over from first edition Descent to second edition Descent, but some of the abandoned things were the more unique things, so maybe sometimes generic has more appeal, if that's why they never made it to second edition. Generic stuff isn't an entirely bad thing for a fantasy setting- many of the things like dragons are much-loved staples of the genre, and generic didn't harm the popularity of a certain boy wizard too much because it had that wow / draw you in factor. Yeah, not much new, but it was done well enough to be a winner, especially for a certain author! My view on Terrinoth is similar, there's a lot to work with with the lore and it's broader than some people realise. People have mentioned Warhammer and the like which do have lots of unique units, some of these are great but others are just too weird as they've tried too hard to be different, likewise there are great units but they're still inspired by fantasy generics, they've just got really good at adding their own little details, but these other big names are largely rooted in generic fantasy too (dragons, vampires, undead, trees, monsters....), so sometimes new and innovative does/doesn't work, sometimes generic likewise. Now they've seeded some new interest in Terrinoth the positive way forward for FFG is how can we fine-tune it and build it and get the best out of it as our own IP? What do we do with it to make the most of it? The 'oh, fantasy's too generic thing' is no excuse- lots of things built from fairly generic start points do really well because they're developed and built up in a way that makes that particular take on them really alluring- it's unfair to say FFG haven't done this with Terrinoth- I really love a lot of what they've put into that world, but I think it's evolved in a rather haphazard way as it was I feel previously on a game by game basis rather than a holistic view of the realm as a whole, I think this will change going forward.. Post- Realms of Terrinoth there's a really strong opportunity for FFG to say OK, this is our IP, it's good, sometimes great, but how do we make it really shine for the next stage of its evolution as a game world. From a business and PR angle I'd be asking 'fantasy worlds are so common how do we make our fantasy world THE best fantasy world? Ours is very good but what does it need to be brilliant? Inspiring? Exciting? Impactful?..... What would make its games a 'must have' rather than a 'might buy' or 'not sure' for fantasy game fans?' Would love some thought on this from any of you who are fantasy fans as it could drive the quality of my fan-made projects and hopefully FFG will read it and get ideas for their commercial ones- what would make a fantasy setting the best and stand out from the rest yet have that familiarity and the things people love in fantasy?, how would you evolve the Terrinoth setting if you were thinking about it in such overall terms? what great creative sparks has it got and what's it maybe lacking currently? (maybe answer that in one of my Genesys Terrinoth threads as it fits better there)
  9. Watercolour Dragon

    Terrinoth Bestiary

    Carrion Drakes are a dragon (albeit the type of dragon that may be referred to as a wyrm as they have the snakelike body, drake's an oldy-worldy word for dragon often used for weaker or lesser or less mythical dragons in fantasy), a different creature, http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Carrion_Drake Carrion Worms are a kind of giant slug-caterpillar-thing-like entity - these lovely beasties (the ones I've made the final stage of the post-broodwalker etc parasitic cycle, for me corpse bugs lead to carrion worms!) https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/13/deadly-lancers/ Ooh, second bit of this below is new to me, see- even I miss good nuggets of info (mine will not always have riders, and as a parasite will target some types): " Few in the realm of Terrinoth had seen them before Waiqar’s onslaught, but carrion worms have been often spotted following Waiqar’s armies, feeding on the scraps and offal cast off by the fleshwrights who tend his legions. Carrion worms are surprisingly swift for their size and expel gouts of digestive ichor before setting upon their prey with shearing mandibles. Ridden by spear-wielding Reanimates, the carrion worm’s bile melts armor and flesh alike, allowing their riders to strike mortal blows against even the best-defended targets. Carrion grubs may be small, but their digestive acid is no less corrosive. Waiqar’s cruelest carrion worm masters discovered that they could feed the grubs nearly any substance, be it stone or metal or wood. As they grew, the grubs took on some of the properties of whatever they were fed. A diet consisting of chum and flesh would give the creatures a sickly, blood-colored cast, while those worms that feasted on bone would have a sallow, calcified carapace. Some of Waiqar’s most prized lieutenants ride atop carrion worms force-fed copper or even obsidian. Of course, most carrion worms have ingested several unlucky Reanimate handlers, as well. " from https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/5/12/the-grotesque-undead/ Just in case @Flobio missed it my idea: " Talking of plague and broodwalkers I'm working on a cunning idea for my campaign where some things like carrion worms, plague worms and broodwalkers/ the related bugs are actually different parts of the same main parasitic superorganism creature's (Carrion Worm) life-cycle. Having some fun working on that! A broodwalker is therefore a host for lots of future carrion worms and will eventually become one, I feel their pain - still fleshing this out (pun intended) but the logic of it's working so far. You do not want to be bitten by a corpse bug or have a carrion worm infest you with them, or suffer any of the other unpleasant ways they can get inside you. The idea could get very ewwy!: maggots/larvae, pupae, eggs... Beware in a Mennara game if your GM starts describing your eating a meal in great detail, remembering that moment in Alien! Have toyed with some options like Volucrix Reavers being bugs that don't find a host going on to create food and decaying corpses for the others but I've not finalised things yet. "
  10. Watercolour Dragon

    Enfid's Miniature Collection for Terrinoth

    It's a shame there's not a Terrinoth forum to share things that overlap different games!
  11. Watercolour Dragon

    Can it be played without the app?

    Apps have value in terms of some positives- more game with less components to carry round, app does legwork of running game/ overlord like rival if applicable and not everyone likes player overlord type games, also if correctly programmed app won't make errors humans can. Also makes expansions/new content easy- doesn't have to have new game components in many cases. but downsides too- e.g. got to be near computer (not always easy in small living spaces), or got to have tablet/similar (or buy one if not got = yet more cost) So not sure, the game might endear the app aspect to me, shall see!
  12. Watercolour Dragon

    Thank you FFG!

    Agreeing on the card art - it does have the wow factor (I like that Terrinoth's started to head down a more realism route too, for me it brings things to life more as it looks more real than overly cartoony art, Terrinoth seems to be a happy place in the middle for me now, a sort of more realistic than before serious cartoonish style- so I'm liking the newer Terrinoth art sometimes more than the old)
  13. Watercolour Dragon

    Can it be played without the app?

    Apps should be optional as with Descent - sometimes I play board/tabletop games to get away from tech! If you can ONLY play with the app then it's a no for me.
  14. Watercolour Dragon

    The 3rd Edition probably will not happen

    Converting it to £ it's around what I'd expect to pay for a new big box type core game in the UK (but likewise only if the game is good enough) Can't speak for dollars as I don't know the US games market, but it feels sort of right for the UK market, although perhaps not if we have to pay a lot more than that due to the costs to the retailers over here of importing it etc. It's worth noting it's solo to five player in the core box too though. To be honest I also don't think we've seen enough of it to properly judge it yet, it could be a really good game, but maybe isn't quite there yet if Descent's heading in the same direction (loses yet more good things from D2e - a mistake 2e made in some areas over 1e and if future Descent takes any inspiration from new mechanics and so on in this it needs to do so without destroying all that's great about Descent, to improve and enhance Descent rather than destroy it, unless of course this started out as the future of Descent which is now abandoned....) Afterthought: or maybe it HAS killed Descent third edition and that could be a good thing. Huh? some of you all say. Well here's why: Second edition never caught up with first (and never kept the good bits of first ironing out the problems with them), missing characters/heroes etc. So say we got a 3e Descent but likewise lots of missing stuff v 2e and it never caught up with 2e (some of 2e was never ported over who's to say a 3e wouldn't lose a lot of what we like in 2e) Alternatively they stick with 2e. Finish 2e. Fix what needs fixing. Still make new stuff that's actually compatible with current stuff (2e, great new map tiles, yay, oh, you can't use them with 1e tiles..... etc etc....) Maybe improvements and additions to and compatible with 2e would be better than a third edition (you could even improve 2e components etc with them still being compatible) Improvement doesn't have to mean ditching everything- if you improve a house unless the whole thing's falling apart you don't tear it down and start again laying foundations... A third edition's also a risk- what if player's DON'T move over- what then of the game's future? Would have to be REALLY good and really keep the feel and quality of D2e to work and for people to spend money on (especially as some of us already have a lot of 1e and 2e at quite some cost) May have some flaws but 2e Descent is actually really good as is, such issues aside, so maybe just carrying on making 2e is a good thing.
  15. Watercolour Dragon

    The Land Endures

    Trying to throw some positivity into the mix: I did have one less pessimistic thought re what the design peeps say in the post- yes it sounds like a 'we're not working on new stuff' thing BUT there is the small nugget of hope that maybe the initial waves are already planned (which could include some we don't have yet) so there's nothing new to be worked on yet. It was always going to be difficult to launch such a line from scratch when up against the established behemoths already in the arena, and it happened at a time FFG was going through changes which may have harmed or helped (we shall see) some of our favorite games (Asmodee seem to be buying up every board game company, but it's yet to be proven if there's enough love there for the games they are bringing under their wing, with the new LOTR game feeling a lot like 'were they working on Descent and decided to do this instead?' - there's a worried part of me that thinks this might be a veiled warning Descent too is abandoned- this was 'a major project they'd been working on for a long time' according to some publicity for it and it's subtitled 'Journeys in Middle Earth'- leaving one wondering if between the lines it's 'Descent's left forgotten in the dark' so there remain a few alarm bells ringing (I disagree over Terrinoth - it has a lot going for it - although I don't think FFG have yet done the realm and its possibilities enough justice - it COULD be as big as games like SW and LOTR IF they gave it a bit more TLC, if this wasn't true then how come GW have made their original lines so popular? I do feel personally they've not built it up and marketed it as effectively as they could because of the obsession and over-focus with IP's, of course the IP stuff will make more money if you push the IP stuff a lot more. Is this the future of everything? A bland, streamlined media world when everything's big IP's and originality is on the wane where creative industries do a tiny bit of original stuff and spew out far more unoriginal stuff cloned (subtle pun) from IP's?? If it was more 50-50 it wouldn't be so bad- IP's can be great worlds to explore in games so I'm not saying such things shouldn't exist at all, there's some really awesome stuff based on IP's and I own some of it, it just saddens me that they're beginning to dominate so much (and soon the IP's will probably all be owned by Disney lol) and pushing out the original, fresh game worlds. And it's not just happening in games. Plus, as I've mentioned before, IP rights can be lost, and that can be a killer for businesses, if it's happened before.... Does seem a bit crazy that Legion launched only a year after RWM, may have harmed both games splitting the resources in terms of creating and plugging the games, a new miniatures game needs a lot of push and a lot of units and a lot of wow factor to grow, so surely Legion was too soon. Think how GW did it- exciting tableaux in shops with plenty of varied scenery and units, LOTS of gameplay opportunity in shops, painting experts in shops....., then consider the limited start of RWM, maybe it arrived with too little of a whimper instead of enough fireworks. Although I don't know if the initial GW launches were less large scale, another important point is that if FFG don't just give up on RWM and actually give it the timespan it needs to grow (it's decades behind the likes of Warhammer so can't be expected to match them from day one, if FFG are smart they'll give it years to grow rather than give up on it) it still has potential, but sadly there are a few hints that FFG as it has evolved doesn't nurture and take care of some of its game lines perhaps as well as it used to, I'm hoping these hints will be proved wrong, but a fair few games already seem to have dropped or be dropping off their TLC radar, quite possibly eclipsed by a LOTR/SW/GOT Giant Star. The thing we should fear most is FFG and the other companies merged into Asmodee becoming merely a cash grab industry and not a games company as we used to know it, I hope they don't lose sight of what they are/were. It could instead be positive in that respect though- putting out games is risky and thus a bigger more profitable company is less likely to fail due to one or two releases not working out- it could actually be in a position to take risks on new products with less risk than a smaller company, hence it could improve rather than hinder innovation, or it could just play safe and ditch everything but the big moneymakers. Let's just hope it doesn't finish off the great creativity and gamebuilding passion that has produced a lot of great games from the companies now in the same box. Again there are a few alarm bells in my head though such as what if Game of Thrones Catan means some people will never play original Catan? And that age old question does everything really need a version for every IP out there?(nobody mention Monopoly aka EveryIPwecangetawaywithdoingitasopoly ) Is this maybe detrimental to the original (resists obvious temptation to have a dig at Monopoly here) as like I say some people may only play the IP version (and who now thinks the Star Wars Catan announcement is only a matter of time away? Trust me with FFG that HAS to be on the cards/ on the table, NO THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING). Please FFG/Asmodee have a think about what you are and where you're headed, just don't lose it.
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