I really like the Jan Ors idea. It's a shame she can't fit a TLT without eating into one of the As but it may be something to consider. Genn, I like the stressmule idea.

I want to repeat, why Biggs? What is your opponent's target priority here? They want Jess dead but focus firing her lines up your joust and leaves them rolling multiple attacks against re-rolling green dice and an IA that can cancel any crit that does get through. Them shooting Jess creates a mathematically favorable situation. What if they shoot an A-wing? Then they are shooting through three green dice and an evade to eliminate the weakest attacking ship. You should be able to trade damage on the A for damage on something better. What if they shoot Biggs? They shoot the easiest to kill target with the second greatest damage potential. You can hold him back in round 1 of shooting but that leaves an A as their best target and that is something they can erase in 1 turn, weakening Jessica and swarm leader. Trading an A isn't bad for a full list but with Biggs back he may not have a good shot back, reducing the value you get in the trade. If you take a rebel Tie or attack shuttle as the 4th list you add a 3rd evade source for swarm leader. You could have Ashoka passing a focus to A-wings that used evade or charging at that double vcx list to harass their movement all game before using emp to set up your joust. Alternatively, an attack shuttle can act as an ace (flank with a VI Hera) or TLT carrier (Ezra can be made pretty beefy).

1. This game in its entirety is up for debate. We are on a forum debating the quality of different upgrades - considering unmade rules is a logical next step, and it greatly aids in understanding the game in a more objective sense. The idea that we should be shunning people's ideas because they aren't game developers is arrogant and stupid, and belies the fact that quality ideas can come from modest sources. 2. Along with a lot of Ill-thought ideas, some of the nerf threads have provided the best content on this board over the past two months because people actually attempt (regardless of their accuracy or truth) to delve into the underlying meta interactions. At the same time, those nerf threads are running away with the tone of the board and bleeding into additional repetitive topics. The OP has a good idea - not because it will banish these threads - but because it will give them an organized and sanctioned home I can easily visit, like the squad list page, instead of having to dig through pages of bickering to find a quality meta opinion. 3. Turbo Toker you aren't going to get anywhere aligning each dissenter with fascism and doubling down on your hyperbole like Trump off his leash. People aren't responding because your rhetoric makes you look foolish.

It is there to help trigger operations specialist on a turn where I commit forward. It lets me boost both Nien and Jess into the fray and then token up before they can be shot. Snap shot + operations specialist means that whenever they land in range one of either of the t70s they either take damage or give me a focus.

^You are extrapolating a vocal few (those that say it is bombs/sabine ending imp aces) into a representing a larger group (those who have given up on imp aces). The game doesn't start at range 3. That bomber had to approach and position to set up that bombing run, and no it is not so simple as fly towards them.

The K-wing was a natural evolution from the Imp Ace meta which demanded 360 shooting and damage through green dice. The fact that it is so daunting to the imperial faction highlights just how narrowly dependent on PS arc-dodging that faction had become. As a Rebel player, I can tell you the rebels desperately needed the constant Ace threat diminished to open up list building - since the Kwings rise rebel lists have become more diverse. With that in mind I don't think it is good to nerf bombs. The defender is still a quality ship. Competitive play has seen the meta shift away from their favor and the simple answer to that for most players is to shift to a different list. The defender itself is still a solid ship that can become a mainstay with another meta shift. I think Imperials need the swarm to be revitalized. I would like to see a cross-faction release for a modification upgrade - Aged Tech - that reduces the cost of the ship by 2 and can only be equipped to unnamed pilots of listed ships (Tie fighter, z-95, Tie interceptor....etc.). This would be meant to create more room in lists using cheap generics in swarms. I would also look at a modification upgrade for certain Tie ships (fighter, interceptor, F/O) that adds a green die if you have two friendlies at range 1, or you get 1 additional green die if a friendly is at range 1 of the attacker, or you get 1 additional green die if the attacker was hit by an attack this round, or you get 1 additional green die if there is another friendly ship in the enemy's firing arc. These are all things aimed at creating a swarm play-style of aggressively closing down on enemies with too many targets to shoot. In order to create interesting games Imperials need to be able to get through the game opening having thinned the enemy ranks without taking critical losses. The Tie aggressor is going to help 3 ship lists damage without arc but beyond that I think Imperials and the game need a swarm renaissance. TL;DR - An Ace with 4+ other ships should be a more supported archetype. Imperials should be able to throw ships at a problem until there is a margin for error for their elite ship to exploit. That is better done by buffing imperial ship synergy than nerfing.

My friend uses either strikers or defenders with him. I can't recall the striker list but the defender one uses 2 PS 1 x7s and Stridan with Hux, systems officer, advanced sensors and ion projector. The defenders can be very difficult to crack. The strikers are delicate but hit like a truck if you can arc dodge with them.

Nand's list was about Miranda. Biggs was a reliable way to protect Miranda. Jess was then the best value fighter available. If Biggs is not protecting a ship with heavy firepower and low agility, he is a drain on the list. He doesn't need to protect Jess. If your opponent is shooting into Jess's ability then you are already getting value. If he is to have value you need a 3rd ship in the list worth protecting, and that points towards Miranda, corran, or Norra as rebel heavy hitters fitting in that point range. Biggs feels limiting to build around. And I wouldn't question Jess' value as a ship. She more than holds her own, even without upgrades.

I've got a few Jess Swarm leader lists that I've used to varying success. Each is a little bit different and each has its own merit. The base of the list is very good against high point large ships or most small ships that formation fly. It needs help against high PS with re-positioning. Each list is meant to address that in some way: 1. Jess - R2-D6, IA, Swarm Leader 2x Green Squad Pilot - Snap shot, chardaan refit, A-wing test pilot, Juke Hera Syndulla (Attack Shuttle) - Veteran Instincts, Autoblaster Turret, Navigator This plays pretty true to the 3x GSP list but Hera adds a lot to the list. 2. Jess - R2-D6, IA, Swarm Leader Ezra Bridger - Elusiveness, Twin Laser Turret, Chewbacca Prototype Pilot - Chardaan Refit Ashoka Tano - Veteran Instincts, Captured Tie, Sabine's Masterpiece, Rey, EMP Device This might be the best list as Ashoka shines here whether she is giving at combat actions to low PS ships or setting up kill shots with EMP. She is an adequate end-game ship along with Ezra who can tank a joust to TLT high priority targets in the rounds after. 3. Jess - R2-D6, IA, Swarm Leader, Primed Thrusters Poe Dameron - Swarm Tactics, R5-P9, IA, Pattern Analyzer 2x Prototype Pilot - Chardaan Refit You add another high priority target and a way for Jess to shoot at PS 9 in jousts.

Go with the ptl one. For Jess, M9-G8 is comparable to a better predator in some ways. It's hard to beat that value but there are cheaper options.

This is list dependant but if you have 3 or more ships you should be able to joust a decimator and handle the other ship after. Come at them fanned out and head on to block any boosts past your ships. Ideally approach at an angle that allows you to turn and pursue next turn. Part of the issue in doing this is that you are likely to lose a ship. You need to make their best target the ship that least helps you against their 2nd ship. If you pull it off you can get crits onto the deci fast. You can kill the deci and pull away with 2 ships to their 1 as they have to chase since you have MOV. Your other option is to pin down the deci partner but Imp Aces are built to be difficult to target.

Posted this in another thread but it's relevant here... surely 2 T70s is enough: I've found Nien and Jess to be the best T70s for their costs and the 3rd T70 often is a complimentary ship. The list I've migrated to is: Jess Pava - R2-D6, Snap shot, Integrated Astromech Nien Nunb - Snap Shot, R3-A2, Integrated Astromech Eaden Vrill - Smuggling Compartment, Anti-Pursuit Lasers, Feedback Array, Operations Specialist Vrill is an underrated pilot who pairs excellently with stress Nien since Nien buffs Vrill's shot and Vrill controls area/denies actions via bumping to set up Nien. This list has 24 HP behind 2 agility. With you limiting enemy actions, that is very resilient. With Snap shot/Operations Specialist, this squad has a way to gain extra damage/dice modification for aggressively closing range.

I've found Nien and Jess to be the best T70s for their costs and the 3rd T70 often is a complimentary ship. The list I've migrated to is: Jess Pava - R2-D6, Snap shot, Integrated Astromech Nien Nunb - Snap Shot, R3-A2, Integrated Astromech Eaden Vrill - Smuggling Compartment, Anti-Pursuit Lasers, Feedback Array, Operations Specialist Vrill is an underrated pilot who pairs excellently with stress Nien since Nien buffs Vrill's shot and Vrill controls area/denies actions via bumping to set up Nien. This list has 24 HP behind 2 agility. With you limiting enemy actions, that is very resilient. With Snap shot/Operations Specialist, this squad has a way to gain extra damage/dice modification for aggressively closing range. It is difficult to pilot but there is a great payoff as this list is capable of pinning down a target and annihilating it. I think the list has a lot of potential. I've played some games with it and haven't lost yet going against: Ketsu, Bosk, Whisper, Ryad, Vessery, Omega Leader, Duchess.... still looking forward to facing some scum and rebel staples but I'm fairly confident against mindlink lists.

Yea but you have to consider what breakfasts bacon is eliminating from the field. You may be able to counter it with eggs Benedict or high end sausage but that simply necessitates those two things while eliminating nearly all other breakfast choices. Bacon might be fun but we should really be considering if breakfast is better off without it. I don't know if we're there yet but we may have to ban bacon.

Exactly. The enemy often can't afford to fly a ship within range 1 so they don't attempt to, functionally limiting their options. The comparison I would make is to blocking. Blocking is often considered great strategically because you strip them of their actions and root them to a specific spot to be pounced on by the rest of your list. Snap shot stress does similar except the area you are blocking is range 1 in front of you (far larger than the size of a small blocking ship), you still get to shoot with the ship stopping them, you get an extra 2 dice shot, the stress affects their movement and actions next turn. This is a ship that constantly has a blocker (but better) range 1 in front of him. Played triple T-70s against 2 imperial lists at open play yesterday: Used Jess + IA, Stress Nien, and a BB-8 Poe. Game 1 I Faced Ryad, Tomax Bren (fleet officer shuttle with tactician and crack shot), and an Inquisitor. We circled and converged in the open area in the middle of the map between asteroids. Jess and Ryad traded shots at range 3 for no result on the opener. Next turn my squad unloads on Bren and Nien gives him his second stress (fleet officer for the first), leaving him pointing the wrong way, double stressed and at 1 hull. Jess takes a licking from Ryad/Bren and Poe gets sniped by the inuisitor at range 3 for 2 shields. The inuisitor and Poe were each flanking to the right of their supporting ships shooting across or into the main joust. Next turn we each had limited options in a traffic jam. Jess K-turns from just in front of Nien who does a forward 2, clearing the rock to his left. Ryad 3 Ks behind Nien and Bren bails towards my spawn. The inuisitor was stressed from PTL the turn before. He does a 1 green turn left directly in front of Nien, getting snap stress and sitting with no tokens between 2 x-wings. Poe turns left past Ryad to finish off Bren this turn as Nien and Jess end the inquisitor in 1 turn. From there, Jess goes down next round as Nien and Ryad begin a k-turn battle while Poe turns around. Nien is able to stalemate Ryad using stress until Poe comes back around (Nien lost 2 shield here but kept Ryad occupied for 3 turns). Poe ends up bringing Ryad down to 1 before failing to PS kill on a head to head. Nien cleaned up the round after. Game 2 was against Whisper, Ryad, Duchess. We both lined up towards the side but turned and went down the middle. The first engagement saw Jess shrug off 3 attacks taking 1 damage. My three x-wings ate up the Duchess with Poe doing three damage on his first shot. I had slow played my squad behind the asteroid field and his striker got out ahead of the other two. From there Whisper went to work gimping Jess and tanking attacks as his predicted decloack into a 1 turn came just short of range 1 for snap shot. I hit Whisper hard getting him to 1 health as he does the same to Jess. Ryad has trouble navigating some debris and falls into Nien's snapshot taking 1 damage and a stress from Nien, as she is set to fly the wrong direction over an asteroid next turn. Next turn Jess and Nien turn around as Poe has to bail to escape getting shot by both Whisper and Ryad. He is able to arc dodge but will be out of the fight for a turn. Whisper ends Jess and evades Nien's shot which stresses him. Next round however, whisper wants to de-stress and the only move that does that and gets a shot on Nien is a decloak right followed by a bank 2 left. That is exactly what he did and Nien was waiting with a snap shot stress to prevent a cloak. Whisper rolled 1 hit before Nien finished her off, at which point my opponent conceded seeing Ryad against two near full t70s. ---------------- The list seems well positioned against imperial lists.

You need to be able to consistently crack evade, focus, and 3 green dice with your attack to play against them heads up. Few lists can do that round to round... Maybe Rey, or superdash, or TLTs...etc. If you are playing a list without something like that, you need to deny them their tokens and focus fire on a blocked ship. How do you block a defender? Well, If your ship moves first you block their 3 speed manuever that puts them pointing towards you- this will force them to give up shots if they want their defensive stack. If your ship moves after the defender you need to position to block their 4k next turn (Ryad is a different beast). Stress makes them easy targets as it denies thier action economy. Any list that uses a shuttle to boost defenders, that shuttle is your first target. It is a much easier target to hit and it goes down faster, making the defnders easier once it dies. It is possible to fly straight past defenders on the opening engagment since they often commit to 3 or higher speed moves... IMO the key to beating defenders is to create 2 or 3 on 1s. They aren't manueverable like high PS aces with repositioning so you can outmanuver them if you reduce the numbers in the enemy list. If your approach doesnt get you more than 1 round on the same target, you are playing into their hands, allowing their k-turn to get them behind you.

Yes, R2-D2 is a waste on a Ywing, especially one without a turret. Your changes are a good idea. You could also make room for an autoblaster turret on Dutch to help handle aces - I don't know how often you'll be able to use the second torpedo shot on the Y.

This should effectively taunt imperial players. I think you could drop bb-8 or replace autothrusters with integrated astromech to fit Rey onto Ashoka. That gives you a way to feed an action every combat, letting snap both target lock and focus. Alternatively, you may want to consider Jess Pava as your T70 swarm leader (using r2-d6 to get an ept) since her pilot ability provides attack modification and she costs less.

That is unfair because you are fundamentally changing the way points are recorded to make regen a worse strategy. That punishes rebel ships for having been designed wih low agility, high hp, and regen. That adds unneccessary variance to tournament MOVs (one player could face 3 regen lists while another faces none, giving a great difference in potential mov). In your scenario Miranda shot the enemy 10+ times and didn't die. Her enemy failed to destroy all enemy ships. Then you arbitrarily gave her enemy extra points based on how many times Miranda used her ability. Why don't we just take it one step further and count how many times a ship was shot? Just because Soontir evaded all my hits doesn't mean I didn't roll them. I should get MOV for that. If that goes to far, then we should at least track the evades for defenders right? I was about to do damage before it was cancelled.

I would suggest trying 3 scum Ys with TLT, unhinged astromech and vectored thrusters and then a base quadjumper with patter analyzer and space tug tractor array.

I think the core 3 ship/pilots are good and you could improve some of the upgrades. I would suggest using R3-A2, snap shot and integrated astromech on nien. This combination makes him capable of double stressing enemy ships with the right set-up. Snap shot activates when an enemy ship flys into range 1. You can trigger R3-A2 to stress nien and stress them when you fire snap shot. Nien may shed that stress because the enemy is at range 1. That enemy ship is now stressed and can't take its action, leaving it range one of nien for his normal attack and likely tokenless. That Nien should help a lot against mindlink lists as stressing them will force them to do greens and T-70s are manueverable ships that can focus fire single targets. It should give you a piloting advantage against them, letting BB-8 Poe run rampant. That Nien preys on aces as he moves before them and locks down an area in front of him where the ace is likely to land. This helps cover bb-8 Poe's weakness to aces that move after him. For Poe I strongly recommend adding autothrusters. It makes him a far more survivable ship as he is extremely good at controlling the range of engagement. Jess is too easy to focus at that PS. I don't think she gets you the mileage youd want out of R2, and she acts better as a supporting ship, providing resilient firepower for a lower point cost. With those changes in mind, this is my end suggestion: Nien: snap shot, r3-a2, integrated astromech Poe: push the limit, bb-8, autothrusters, primed thrusters/black one* Jess Pava: R2 Astromech*, Integrated Astromech* This puts you at 101 points. The "*"s denote the small options to lose that 1 point. Primed thrusters lets Poe keep dodging through stress that may be prevalent in your meta. Black One would let him shed two target locks per turn against alpha strike scum which is fantastic if you expect that matchup. You could take both and lose R2 and Integrated on Jess though that is valuable health and 4 green manuevers after K-turns or Talons (the 2 turn green helps T-70s regain their shot). I would drop black one as it requires you to play Poe more in formation and primed thrusters is invaluable considering your point investment in Poe. The goal of almost every game should be to get Poe matched up against a non-360 ship with lower PS in the end game. He can solo multiple ships if they fit that criteria. I would suggest starting Poe range 3 away from the other two flanking the enemy. He can easily close the distance to support Jess and Nien if the enemy commits to them. If they commit to Poe, you can pilot for a 3 green on dial to find you a get-away lane as the other two swoop in from the enemies flank. Nien's assignment is to take enemy aces out of the game early to make Poe the top arc-dodger. The list is Poe based, but if Poe is caught, or doomed to a bad matchup, use his action economy to lock and focus for as much damage as possible. Nien and Jess are quality ships.

If Zeb works out the back... Then I may consider docking a phantom. My thought had been to use the other 51 points to lay a hurt.

^Capping TLT at one damage a turn would make it terrible. I do see it as a potential problem card, but not yet. The Tie Aggressor is when I think TLT proves fair or broken. Regardless, I think giving a range 3 bonus to defenders solves almost all issues. It allows for a range 3 approach with arc dodgers - the things being squeezed from the meta - while still maintaining the upside that TLT has always had. It just makes them a bit less consistent and opens up positioning advantages to every opposing list. It discourages Ghost kites. It decreases Miranda's offensive output and encourages her to engage rather than kite. Give range 1 bonuses and I'd bet the other turrets see use as well (you'd have to cap autoblaster turret at 2). I don't think we need that change now. I don't think these Ghost builds are broken, just near NPEs that promote undesirable strategies (if hera kites away, don't chase... You have advantage in the final volley. Peel off and reposittion to focus fire later in the game. This wise counter-strategy is undesireable because it can put the game into an uniteractive state of a mexican standoff). The effect of TLT on the meta can certainly grow and alter things when an entire new faction gets to play with it. Then, we may need a change. TLT vs TLT is boring as hell. I hate yahtzee.

I love the idea... But Zeb needs them in arc to work. Also for almost any strategy, I prefer getting it to work without Biggs. I tend to think there is always some other ship that could be a greater threat - providing greater upside if I can succesfully pilot.

*RAMMING SPEED* This ship is something Im wondering if it can be made to work. This is not a tournament list for you. This is a surprise-gotcha! list. And an incomplete one at that. The list would have some sort of joust friendly compliment: Lothal Rebel - Extra Munitions, Proton Torpedos, Autoblaster Turret, Fire Control System, Engine upgrade, 'Zeb' Orrelios, Boshek The idea is to run this ship headlong into a joust, with an engine boost to force a bump. The bumping ship eats a 5 die primary. Next round Boshek creates mind games as you may look at their dial and have them rotate. The Rebel can bump again and threaten with FCS + autoblaster or butt torpedos. So lets assume the strategy works... What do I pair with this 49 point monstosity?