Ohnoeszz
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Posts posted by Ohnoeszz
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Now this is right up my alley. I just took this list to a store champ(32 people, barely missed the top 8 cut, losing by 1 hull in the final Swiss game to the eventual tourney winner. I would definitely play it again.):
Eaden Vrill:
-Smuggling Compartment
-Anti-pursuit lasers
-Feedback array
-Operations specialist.
Nien Nunb:
-Snap Shot
-R3-A2
-Integrated Astromech
Jess Pava:
R2-D6
Snap Shot
Integrated Astromech
I cannot recommend that Nien enough. I've used 2/3rds of your exact list with an Attack Shuttle instead of a U-wing and while Braylen is good Nien does things he can't. You have the extra point to upgrade to Nien - you should give it a try. With your other two ships blocking, you can use Nien's stress/snapshot to deny actions to a ship that lands in front of him.
Why is this better than Braylen's double stress at range 2/3? Because you can put Nien in front of Miranda or Expertise Dengar or any imperial ace and stress them before they can take action. In that tourney, stress snap shot set up Miranda for a quick kill with 1 turn of fire from all 3 ships + feedback array ending her. She shot once and dropped no bombs. I also jousted an expertise Dengar and lost no ships in the joust while killing him. Those are two top of the meta ships that Nien punishes. Miranda in particular folds to stress snap shot as she has a very limited dial for her first maneuver and only 1 agility, making snap shot a damage threat.
I hate the U wing's maneuverability and I think it's a weak point for you once the game progresses past the initial joust.
Feedback array is fantastic for finishing off weakened ships after the joust. It really helps you deal with defenders which can be problematic - particularly Ryad who is resistant to stress and can reposition around you after the joust. It also helps lock down aces in endgame as getting a bump and feedback can put them at or below half health.
Finally, some piloting advice: Move Eaden in for blocks at a 45 degree angle rather than head on if possible. That way he can turn back in front of the enemy and barrel roll to stay relevant in the next rounds.
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But really, floor rules......
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Defenders are strong jousters with the ability to reposition behind the enemy immediately after the joust. I think you can sacrifice some PS for some firepower and it would be beneficial, potentially crippling lists on the opening salvo.
I'd Try:
Countess Ryad - Push the Limit, Mk II, X-7
Delta Squadron Pilot - X-7
Colonel Vessery - Swarm Leader, X-7
The PS 1 defender can be an excellent blocker that sets up Ryad and Vessery. Vessery can take a focus, get a target lock from shooting whoever is locked by Ryad and unload 5 dice fully modified. Jousting, you can put out 11-14 red dice in one turn depending on range and you're using some pretty sturdy ships.
If you want to play 2 Tie-Ds, I've seen double ion-cannons be very effective...
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2 hours ago, Grivoire said:Gone for a day and this thread almost Fel into oblivion? I on the other have Just developed a new build that is just as crazy as it is effective:
I have you now (98 pts)
Soontir Fel: Daredevil + Title + Autothrusters + Experimental Interface (35 pts)
Major Stridan: Systems Officer + Inspiring Recruit + Kylo Ren's Shuttle title (37 pts)
Omega Leader: Juke + Comms Relay (26 pts)Basic strategy is the same as I discussed previously, but here is the list of what Soontir gets this time:
Source Actions Systems Officer Target Lock Coordinate Evade/Barrel Roll/Boost Experimental Interface Focus Daredevil Focus + 1 Hard maneuver Clear 2 Stress (INS REC) Evade/Barrel Roll/Boost That is a total of Six actions a round with the capability to move in any direction you want at any time without the need to perform a K-turn.
That looks extremely fun. I'll have to try it out sometime. I really like the idea of being able to coordinate a boost/barrel roll into EI daredevil. The positioning possibilities are fantastic. You could conceivably block with Soontir at PS 4 before moving on to attack a ship further back in their list.
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A single tournament, worlds or not, is not indicative of the state of Imperials given recent circumstances.
The lag between the release and exploitation of many ships/cards (k-wings, mindlink, Tie S/F....) shows that changes to the game take time to infiltrate the player base. The people taking lists to worlds - in particular, those capable of gunning for the top spots - are concerned only with their own performance. These are the players that play a list 200 times to get experience with it. Having spoken to some, their plans were disrupted by the changes, and it is far easier to migrate to another familiar power list than it is to create a new one. I would argue that the timing of the nerf severely impacted imperial representation, as many players felt no need to risk playing now untested ships and strategies.
So again, I think it is incorrect to start from the conclusion that worlds proved Imperials insufficient. I don't disagree that numerically they were underrepresented at the top, I simply think there are external reasons for that and top 16 is in a single tournament is an extremely small sample size to begin with. They are currently in the same boat as Rebels - having to build to beat the top of the meta rather than being the top of the meta.
I'd argue that world's data far more clearly highlights the issues with certain scum ship designs introducing power creep. The jumpmaster is masking the severe underpricing of Fenn - who has supplanted every imperial ace as the top dog and is currently warping the meta around himself.
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38 minutes ago, Chief Hugh said:Good show...but I think there was maybe five sentences that were not interrupted by Dee. I'm not being rude, I would just like for the other pod casters to be able to finish a thought so I can hear what they have to say.
Keep up the great work .
You're not being rude, he was. At one point he said farmer shouldn't dismiss what he's presenting before he says it but Dee spent the entire podcast doing exactly that.
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Heavy Swarm:
Jess Pava - R2-D6, Swarm Leader, Integrated Astromech
Ezra Bridger (attack shuttle) - Push the Limit, Jan Ors
Zeb Orrelios (attack shuttle)
Blue Squadron Pilot - R5-D6, Integrated Astromech, Comm Relay
This is going with the theme of 3 attack power for 4 ships but I think it's also worth considering dropping Zeb down to a 15 point A-wing blocker and adding comm relay to Jess.
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We don't know how good 4 tlt aggressors are yet.
Intensity actively makes ships that are good against TLT even better by providing a new, cheap way to reposition and focus.
You have yourself worked up over imaginative conspiracy.
thebrettski reacted to this -
Yes... Fantastic upgrade.
It starts the action economy diversification that we need. This really helps a lot of small ships in multiple factions. Tie F/Os and T-70s spring to mind as liking this for multiple pilots.
Good design.
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I'd been using a more loaded Chewie but I really like the rage-recruit idea to get more out of the support ships.
Likewise, the idea to use ordnance to entice the enemy into considering the missile carriers is good at it's base. The game becomes about range control against your list and getting a Z too far away from Chewy can leave it getting shot without return fire - which is how this list loses.
With that in mind, some thoughts on changes:
I think it could be worth swapping in Bandits to free up points. I don't see the reason to get them up to PS 4. PS 2 means they can be blocked by fewer pilots, which helps prevent you're maneuvering being botched That would get you 3 points to play with. From there you may want to consider an attack shuttle which can get you a greater base attack power, barrel roll - which helps a lot in blocking situations - and the option to add a crew or autoblaster turret with the remaining two points. That turret could help against aces and nicely protect the flank of your Zs. It could be a priority target for an ace list and may be of help in managing Fenn Rau.
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I've been considering it. I may join and pm you for some games.
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So I got to play against a meta list in Old Fennaro yesterday.
Fenn Rau - Attani Mindlink, Autothrusters, Concord Dawn Protector
Old Teroch - Attani Mindlink, Autothrusters, Concord Dawn Protector
Mannaroo - Attani Mindlink, Painbot, Anti-pursuit lasers, Intel Agent
I think there was a torpedo somewhere, probably on Fenn...
He gave me initiative and I placed one of my two large debris in the center offset to the left. The rest of the obstacles framed that debris, cluttering the inside of the board on his side and the outside on mine. I set up in my center and moved up the middle before banking left, turn two, towards his starting position in the corner.
He had Manaroo on the inside with the others stacked outside - Fenn in back. He moved forward turn 1 and turn two began to bank in as otherwise he risked engaging Manaroo with the Fangs pointing the wrong way. Teroch barrel rolled forward-outside to get out of range of my T-70s and set up a turn inwards next turn, short of an asteroid. Manaroo ended up banking inwards to give the Fangs space. This put her in range of Nien who stressed the attanis on the attack, but misses as his red lock was passed to Fenn. Operations Specialist triggers giving Vrill a 2nd focus after spending the first vs. Fenn. Vrill dodges teroch with that focus and ends up taking 1 from Manaroo as Jess and Vrill bring manaroo to 1 shield.
Turn three, Vrill turns left three and blocks both destressing fangs doing 2 maneuvers towards the fight. Manaroo also bumps into Vrill as the x wings behind block it's landing spot. I get 2 damage on his ships from APL. Jess gets a snap shot on Fenn which gives her focus after landing on debris. Fenn and Teroch whiff their unmodified range 1 shots on Jess just before Nien proceeds to bring Fenn down to 1 hull for Vrill to feedback array for the kill. Jess shoots Manaroo giving a crit for PS 0.
From there Jess goes straight 2 disengaging. Vrill turns left three over Teroch towards my edge and grabs a lock on teroch. Nien T-rolls through debris taking double stress but catching Teroch's forward 3 with snap shot stress. Nien's snap shot gives Vrill focus but it doesn't matter since Nien gets 3 hits against blank dice, killing Teroch who had taken an APL hit earlier.
My opponent conceded at this point with 4 health on Manaroo remaining versus my whole list at near full (Vrill took some hits but no hull and Nien lost 2 shields).
I'm hoping to get more games in but the list seems good against mindlink as I have two ships capable of denying action in a turn. Stress can force certain maneuvers and create opportunity for Vrill to block or force them into poor spots to avoid the block.
BlodVargarna reacted to this -
Wurms' list seems extremely strong. With there being 1 unique pilot per list, the stresshog knows it's target and the rest of the list is strong jousting.
If that list is too cutthroat, try 4 PS 1 Strikers with light weight frame and Adaptive Ailerons and Duchess with VI, and AA. 5 ships with 3 attack dice and tons of maneuvering options.
Nikolishin reacted to this -
Thank you for the responses. If I'm critical, please know it's because I'm trying to think through each possibility, not because I don't appreciate your thoughts...
A few things:
I'm fairly convinced snap, stress Nien is superior to wired Snap, if not always, then at least in this list based around area control. The ability to block one area with vrill and another with Nien is the crux of the list IMO.
Operations Specialist.... One of my recent games was against IMP Aces (Vader, Inquisitor, Soontir). In that game Jess did a k-turn over debris to out position the aces flying through the asteroid field. The next turn, she went back over that debris to maintain a shot. These maneuvers left her triple stressed but she had modified dice the entire game. The K-turn put her in position to snap shot which missed and provided a focus through stress. Next turn Nien's snapshot triggered Op spec to keep her with focus.
That game was won handily by my list's ability to play through the debris while his aces had to go around. I can't make that play without Op Spec. It is an upgrade that lets me get additional actions for natural game events. Getting two additional focus from the snap shots let's me double focus two ships - something Attani mindlink similarly enables. At minimum, on a turn by turn basis it lets me choose which will shoot first between Jess and Vrill so that the other can potentially get a focus.
Biggs - aside from finding him rather boring, Jess is a pure upgrade in terms of firepower. I don't have a high value ship he'd be protecting. Vrill tends to act as an effective damage sponge in his place. I think I need the most damage output and toughness for my points and Jess fills that role admirably.
Vrill's primary job is blocking and harassing the enemy into poor positioning. Feedback Array let's him damage a ship touching him. I've ended Ryad before by blocking the k-turn for anti pursuit lasers damage followed by feedback array at combat. This type of play also sets him up for 4 die range 1 primary shots against stressed targets. Playing at range 1 makes his natural 2 attack a bit more robust and 360 arc on a big ship with hard turns and a barrel roll makes range 1 pretty easy to achieve.
BlodVargarna and nitrobenz reacted to this -
^Oh yeah, but then what imp list isn't. As I said it's unplayed, so it could be garbage. Dropping the two ties, Operations Specialist, and LWF on Rhymer frees space for PTL X-7 Ryad which should fit well but that isn't a four ship list.
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I've yet to try it, but I want to:
Major Rhymer - Snap Shot, Lightweight Frame, Tie Shuttle, Operations Specialist, Tactician
Quickdraw - Push the Limit, Electronic Baffle, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops
Scourge - Veteran Instincts
Academy Pilot
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Kath Scarlett - Swarm Leader, General Hux
3x - Epsilon Squadron Pilot - Comm Relay
Just put this together yesterday. Hoping to try it tomorrow. I'm looking at some other variations as well, including other ships but I'm fairly unfamiliar with most tie pilots so it may take me a bit to post my next imperial list.
For rebels I really like including an attack shuttle. It gives you a crew spot and natural 3 attack dice on a cheap ship with evade....
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I tend to drop Black One unless I have Poe. PS 9 and an initiative bid is relevant for removing TLs.
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Linked Targeting Systems
Modification, 1pt
Tie only
You may not equip this card if you have more than 1 shield.
When attacking a target with your primary weapon, you may re-roll a number of your attack dice equal to the number of ships with Linked Targeting Systems that have attacked that target this turn.
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This is meant to provide howlrunner like support without the drawback of being range one of howlrunner. This can be an extremely strong upgrade that rewards multiple ships for hitting targets as a group. I don't think it is too strong as it doesn't affect the first ship firing and you don't get the same number of re-rolls as Howlrunner provides until your third ship fires, at which point, your 4th ship on target will functionally have target lock. You have a ton of ship/pilot choices to mix into your swarm. It rewards quality piloting with action economy and to me it would help revitalize the swarm style of play, which in turn should provide opportunity for other imperial ships in those lists and in that meta.
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T-70s seem well positioned with a variety of meta-relevant tricks. Stress builds can make attani matches doable. Black one on a high PS bb-8 ship ruins the action economy some lists are built on and is a pretty hard counter to torp boats.
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My list:
Jess Pava - R2-D6, Snap shot, Integrated Astromech
Nien Nunb - Snap Shot, R3-A2, Integrated Astromech
Eaden Vrill - Smuggling Compartment, Anti-Pursuit Lasers, Feedback Array, Operations Specialist
How would you fly against it with your top list? What does this list look weak to? Are there specific lists or tactics I should plan for? Are there changes you would suggest?
BlodVargarna reacted to this -
There are some meta calls to that list. Do you expect ordnance or Fenn Rau to play a larger part in the lists you face? Attani lists with Fenn often don't have the points to spare for an initiative bid so you get a valuable closer against them in Poe. You don't have pattern analyzer so you are relying on getting in range 1 with stay on target to have any attack modification if you take bb-8 and use stay on target. That is a pretty big risk considering Nien's PS is only 7. Targeting astromech would pair well with stay on target but that is also made better by pattern analyzer.
Nien wants pattern analyzer so he can boost into range 1 after stay on target regardless of the mech choice. M9-G8 is good but I would reduce Jess to having an R2 astromech to provide Nien with a PA. If you want a flanker away from Jess then bb-8 can let nien cross the field, but otherwise targeting astro provides the greatest opportunity for dice modification. I would take targeting astromech unless you expect jumpmaster ordnance lists.
Alternatively, Snap shot, r3-a2 Nien nunb let's you keep M9-g8 on Jess, benefits greatly from it and pairs well with the rest of your list.
BlodVargarna reacted to this -
Gamblertuna makes a good point about Fenn Rau being at the top of the meta as a 4 hull ace. I think it's worth fleshing out why he is succeeding where imperial lists are failing. I would point towards 2 factors...
The first being that Fenn's damage output is higher than most imperial aces. He doesn't need to remain alive long for him to deal enough damage to be worth his points.
The second being that Fenn's support in the scum faction is rather robust. Schmidt players can trade him and win on attrition through big ships. If Imps lose an ace early the rest of the list is hardly so self-sufficient.
I think Fenn has displaced more imperial ace players than anything because he is far and away the best point for point ace in the game. Those who want an ace and aren't dedicated to a faction simply play scum.
There are however, aces for Imperials who come close to Fenn's power... They don't have compliments they can rely upon to eliminate a bombing threat. Having played a bomber against parattani, Fenn himself is still very weak to bombs but it's tough to roll your bomber towards him when it has to cruise through Asaaj the turn before. I feel this highlights the declining value of the imperial backbone - swarm.
Over time, particularly with the costing of the J5k, Shadowcaster, and Protectorate, Imperials have lost the cost-efficiency of many of their medium to low end ships. I think it's vital for the faction to regain that efficiency either in the form of cost reduction to old ships or low cost upgrades making swarms more synergistic. This would make the faction more equipped to trade in game openings with the goal of setting up a late game for the ace. The aggressor is going to help them flesh out the cat and mouse game but I don't think unguided rockets will be enough to help the faction in jousting scenarios against competitive lists.
Nerfing rebel bombs now may open things up a crack for Imperial pilots but it eliminates a rebel archetype and reduces the push-back against scum's overall efficiency - which may be a real problem since they are the faction with the two best large ships and the best ace, with more support on the way. I think we are far better off bringing Imperials into the new meta with buffs, rather than going backwards to support the PS race.
You can believe whatever opinions you want, but as others have said, you'll need to offer more than the veracity of your belief to convince others - and that would seem to be the point in posting about it on a forum.
StriderZessei reacted to this -
I think it looks good. Bombadier is the only thing that stands out as unnecessary. Double Intel Agent seems strong but you could also consider Cassian Andor and chopper to help deal with enemy stress. Tactician and chopper could improve your approach options against some lists. Alternatively, you may want to consider an initiative bid for Ahsoka against Fenn Rau.
Block&Shot (3xps3 rebels)
in X-Wing Squad Lists
Posted
Not necessarily. You have two ships moving at PS 3 with large bases and Intelligence Agent. You can use these ships to flank Nien and control space so that the only way for them to joust your list forces them to bump or be snap-stressed. Nien's stress snap is very similar to playing with a third large base denying them space but if he catches them he gets to throw 6 dice at a mod-less target and leave them double stressed next turn. Snap shot can still trigger Operations Specialist.
Nien can still single stress at range 2-3 whereas you would have to depend on Braylen to proc gunner to get that double stress and take away their action next round. Say Braylen hits on his first shot, that ship can do a green and have an action next turn. If Nien hits them with stress from range, they need to do a green to lose that stress. You can position Nien to be able to snap shot their green maneuver and force that ship into missing its action or turning into a bad position. More than that, you can present one joust and then turn your list towards the enemy flanker if you see it moving aggressively into a snap shot spot.
It may be a bit more difficult to pilot without all PS 3 but I think it is well worth it and no issue with a bit of experience. He is a more durable ship with extra focus being passed around and IMO offers a lot more post joust with his ability allowing you to reposition with red moves and still get an action.
Just try it for a few games. If you don't like it, Braylen is still a very solid fall-back.