Ideas for the next campaign: Destroy the SSD

[Ideas for the next campaign: Destroy the SSD]

I'd love to have an SSD model for just pure collector reasons, but I'd still probably rather have it implemented in some less expensive way, especially if it was part of an interesting campaign.

 

... But why not both?  I know it'd be a better idea to include the actual campaign rules and any extra mechanics in an actual SSD model set (to make it more appealing), but I'd really prefer a (much) cheaper option for a campaign/scenario, and a model (with its own unique content, certainly) as more of a "collector's item" for those interested.

 

 

That all said, I'm one of the suckers who owns one of the SWM AT-ATs.  I'm sure I'd wind up getting an SSD for Armada too.

[Ideas for the next campaign: Destroy the SSD]

Quotin' myself from the other thread:

 

SSD on the reverse of the campaign map.

Essentially battlefield terrain.

Tied to objectives.

Ideally those objectives are standard objectives, and not campaign specific (though that would give more room mechanically).

 

 

Satisfy nobody, and do it well.   

 

 

Cheap, easy, campaign-box-sized implementation of the SSD.  Your idea for a campaign centered around the thing is, in my opinion, fantastic.

[Article Predictions. Mostly General Discussion. But there's definately some Predictions scattered throughout.]

SSD on the reverse of the campaign map.

Essentially battlefield terrain.

Tied to objectives.

Ideally those objectives are standard objectives, and not campaign specific (though that would give more room mechanically).

 

 

Satisfy nobody, and do it well.  

[Article Predictions. Mostly General Discussion. But there's definately some Predictions scattered throughout.]

Single wave + Campaign would be fine with me, too - and probably much more positively received by my wife.

 

So long as the support is there - including articles fairly often - that would be fine.

 

Two waves of two items each, plus a campaign, would probably be my ideal.

[Now that we have the Ghost. . .]

 

I'm not sure TAP would be at all distinguishable from a regular tie at Armada scale. I already have trouble with seas of unpainted fighters, imperials particularly.

 

They'll have the same issue with the (inevitable) Force Awakens-era stuff.

 

That is - how do you tell a TIE/fo apart from a TIE/ln, at this scale, if neither model is painted?

 

 

... Do you have to be able to tell them apart?  As long as they have different cards and different bases, they should be as distinct as normal- and unique-squadrons are already, at least.  EDIT: So very, very ninja'd.  I'm so slow.

 

 

On the TAP - maybe an Irregular squadron?  It's kind of small for it, but it kind of works.  I'd kind of love to see another version (closer to Rebels, maybe?) of Vader done that way as well.

We could also get the Phantom, maybe?  It would kind of be neat to see, but also kind of just terrible.  A terrible idea.  Forget I said anything.  I hate this idea.

[[Hypothetical]: "Intel" Keyword Counter]

So what are you doing to Jan's bays now?

That's almost as bad as Biggs' moustache ride formation.

I've never wanted to use Biggs more than I do right now.

 

... Which sounds dirty.  I mean, differently than the other thing already did.  But... Eh.  Worth it.

[[Hypothetical]: "Intel" Keyword Counter]

I wouldn't limit it to squadron value.  Just keep it limited in range.  Easier to run that way.

[[Hypothetical]: "Intel" Keyword Counter]

I just wouldn't do it.  For me, it's just too specific to have something to specifically cancel another effect.

 

Squadron counters, sure.  And options for counter-play, absolutely.  Heck, I wouldn't even mind an ability that let you choose and cancel other abilities in some limited fashion... no, wait, now that I think of it, that sounds terrible.

 

EDIT: As Caldias said, something that cancels or otherwise interacts with Heavy seems like a better path to take.

[[Hypothetical]: Third Faction, How Would they Play?]

Keep Objectives All-parties.

 

On one hand, I disagree.  I don't think it would be any more problematic than faction-specific upgrades and the like.  If anything, it could open up some interesting thematic design space at some point.  Not a necessity, but something I wouldn't completely take off the table.

 

The balance aspect of it though, yeah.  They'd have to remain balanced.

 

So amend my previous thoughts to something more like: 

• Include balanced new objectives, usable by any faction, but thematically and mechanically suited to really play to the new faction's strengths.

[[Hypothetical]: Third Faction, How Would they Play?]

I really think that, even if you made a Fringe faction that only used existing (Rebel/Imperial) ship models, you could still make it feel very distinct as a faction.

 

My suggestion above of completely denying them Large ships would give a different overall feel, but on the individual battle level, giving them lots of ways to modify and play with the statlines could create a solidly themed dynamic (potentially even moreso than Rebels).  Even something as simple as a type of "upgrade" that reduced ship cost (and came with some kind of reduction in ship power) would create an interesting dynamic.

 

I would really push the "rag-tag / scrounged-together" feel as the theme for any kind of cardboard-only Fringe faction, particularly if they use the same ships.  Really drive home the feeling that these guys are not the extremely structured monolithic empire, and are not even the rag-tag scrappers of the rebellion, but are instead the little scraps that some backwater fringer warlord or crime syndicate has been able to pull together while the "big boys" have been struggling to control a galaxy.

 

 

 

Heck, you could even make them a bit more distinct by giving them their own set of objectives that make them feel more "piratey".  Boarding actions, hijackings, ambushes.  Maybe ones that make them feel like they're being engaged on their "home turf".  Heck, if you went with the "downgrades" idea, that could be a really unique aspect of their strategy: they have specially advantageous objectives that they can pick, and additional ways to increase their bid in order to make them more likely to come into play.

 

 

EDIT: Also, yeah, sorry, I come from way too much of a SW RPG and old SW Minis background, so I tend to think of them in terms of "fringe" rather than "scum".

[3rd faction... before it's too late]

I just want U-Wings.

 

Tiny, tiny u-wings.

[Fun Rebels/Rogue One fact]

Rebels has room to get there, I think.  They're already telling a story that obviously has to have a lot of disconnect to it, given the presence of jedi on the team.  The mid-season trailer shows us that Saw is going to be involved on Rebels, and I'm hoping that ends up being more than just a one-episode cameo.

 

It already feels like they need to bugger-off somehow before the OT timeframe just because of the jedi stuff.  If they actually address this stuff on the show, Rebels will be better for it.

 

 

If the Rebels crew - and by extension Pheonix Squadron - are one of the "more extreme" cells, closer to Saw than to the Alliance proper, that would be pretty neat (and explain some things).

 

 

 

Rebels is such a weird show - even moreso than Clone Wars.  I like it - it's one that my son and I watch all the time together - but I feel like for "grown up" star wars fans, some of the overarching big-picture stuff and re-canonization is really neat, but the minutia of the actual episodes and actual show is just dreck.  I like a ton about Rebels in theory far more than I like the actual implementations on the show.

[[Hypothetical]: Third Faction, How Would they Play?]

Cardboard-Only.

 

The faction allows you to utilize existing (and future) ships from either the Empire or Rebellion, with a few limitations:

1. They do not have access to Large-based ships.
2. They do not have access to existing ship titles.

• Their "theme" is customization.
• They have their own Admiral(s), and officers.  They cannot use Rebel or Imperial Admirals or officers.
• There are some faction-specific upgrades that allow them to really play around with changing which upgrade icons are available on which ships.  This represents fringe modifications and customization to ships that the standard factions wouldn't or couldn't do.
• There are some faction-specific modification upgrades that really alter what a ship's statline might look like.  Changing (not just increasing) the battery or shield values of the ship, it's nav chart, or its defense tokens.
• There are faction-specific ship titles for some of the more common ship types (especially the starter box ships).  There might also be titles that, rather being specific to a specific model of ship, are linked only to the size of the ship.  For example, you could have titles that work with any Medium ship, or titles that work with any Flotilla.
• They do not have their own squadrons.  Instead, they either (a) have their own faction-specific cards to have versions of existing squadrons mixed from both existing factions, or (b) have a set of cards that let them use (and modify!) existing standard squadrons, including their own unique pilots.

 

 

Overall, the feel they bring to the table is one of a scrounged-together, sort of functional, backwater "fleet".  This isn't a small portion of the Empire or Rebellion - the intent is for it to feel like this faction is bringing literally everything they have to every Armada battle.  And literally everything they have might consist of a stolen Victory SD, some Corvettes, and a mix of flotillas (with gun batteries bolted on), plus whatever fighters they've pulled together when the "big boy" factions weren't looking.

 

 

If you wanted to get silly with it, the boxed set that gives you this might even let you name some of the things yourself (with guidelines and recommendations in the booklet), so that every third-faction player's fleet really feels completely unique.

[More important than the ships of Wave 6...]

Pre-Episode IV (Rogue One or even Rebels time frame) could be interesting.

Post-Episode IV (after the destruction of the 1st Death Star) could be interesting.

Mon Cal could be interesting.

Something in the Shadows of the Empire timeframe could be interesting (room for Black Sun to operate as a sort of neutral obstacle for both factions to some degree).

Pre-Episode VI could be interesting.  The Battle of Endor could serve as its "all out offensive".

Post-Episode VI could be really interesting.  It could even start with an "all out offensive", and have the players start having to rebuild.

[More important than the ships of Wave 6...]

I don't have any specific ideas, but I do think that it's important that it feels different from CC.  Same mechanics, but with some kind of twist to make it really distinct.

[3rd faction... before it's too late]

"Scum"-faction ships most likely wouldn't sell nearly as well as Imperial or Rebel ships.  Unless they include "must have" upgrades.

But I for one don't want them to have "must have" upgrades (either really interesting, or really potent) because I have so little interest in any of the ships.

 

 

I'm telling you, the best way to do it is just cardboard, usable with whatever existing (and future) Rebel/Imperial ships they want.  Being able to blend the options from the two real factions would in and of itself create a really unique set of options.

[3rd faction... before it's too late]

 

 

 

I'm a little confused by the standard argument here. 

There aren't enough potential large ships in the Star Wars universe outside of Rebel/Imperial iterations?

 

My argument is that a third faction simply isn't needed from a design space perspective - it has nothing to do with what ships a third faction would include.  X-Wing doesn't have as many baked-in overarching tactical elements as Armada (namely Commanders and Objectives), which is why it needed a third faction to create new play style options in order to keep the game from getting stale.

 

Instead of a third faction, I think we now see that Armada benefits from campaign play as the Corellian Conflict set has really energized local groups.  The added benefit here is that you don't have to buy an entire faction's worth of ships just to get a few upgrade cards like you would in X-Wing.  You only have to buy 1 campaign box.  It's a much cheaper way to go for the player base.

I agree with this. If FFG released scum for Armada, would it fail like it did for X-Wing? And would I be forced to buy ships I don't want for the "next" TRC or FCT?

 

Why does Armada need scum? I'd rather see Republic and CIS because they actually have a legit reason to be a part of Armada. You know, full scale civil war and full size fleets.

 

So to all the yay-ers, why does Armada need scum?

Scum and Villainy is just my personal preference, it doesn't have to be that. I was mainly concerned with the timing of a new faction being released. While I'd like to see pirates etc, the factions from the prequels are overdue for major representation in a FFG miniatures game, aside from the nods X-wing has thrown their way

 

I suspect the best you can hope for in that regard is any kind of use the ships of that era see in, like, Rebels.

If that show suddenly sees the use of Clone War Era ships, I might actually expect them to show up.  But still probably not with their original factions.

[3rd faction... before it's too late]

I still like the idea of a "card-only" Scum faction for a boxed set / "campaign".

 

Pirate "admirals" and crew that would somehow allow you to use the ships of other factions in some new way.  Could be limited to only Medium or Small based ships, and have their own squadron bases/cards.  You wouldn't even have to stick to giving -specific- "scum" versions of ships, though you could include a handful of "scum only" titles to customize existing ones.

 

Perhaps an admiral that lets you include ships from either faction in your fleet, but they count as belonging to the "scum" faction instead of their normal faction for purposes of titles or upgrades (so no Rebel or Imperial crew).  Or even individual officers that have the affect on specific ships.

 

Include some other "scum only" upgrades and crew, and you could create a whole new play style with just a single "cardboard expansion" box set.

 

Plus, if you tied it into a specific campaign narrative, you could even "justify" fleet-level engagements with the faction.

[3rd faction... before it's too late]

A full "third faction" doesn't make any sense to me, either.  As others have said, the scale is just... larger.  "Scum" really only fit into this in a capacity of working with/for one faction or the other.

 

However, I could see something along the lines of the CC boxed set - a "cardboard expansion" - with a set of "scum" versions of various existing ships (using the ships from the starter would probably be ideal).

 

Some kind of "campaign" involving fighting the (rare) amassing of an actual full-scale Scum fleet.  Even if only as a "neutral" or third party in a larger Rebel/Imperial territorial conflict.

 

 

EDIT: Although really, a faction that -did- only include smaller ships, flotillas, and squadrons could be really interesting.

[More important than the ships of Wave 6...]

CC was a great idea, and is one of the "new games" I've been most excited about this year.

I redirected my "maybe I'll buy Seafall" budget into more Armada ships just to be able to support a more diverse campaign.

 

I really look forward to them doing more, especially if they use Campaigns as the retail packages for "cardboard expansions".

[Anyone else sick of lifeboat flotillas?]

Totally casual player here (in no small part because "competitive play" would require at least a 45 minute drive), but we have a gentlemen's agreement not to do it because it "doesn't feel like Star Wars" to us.  Not in a "this could/would never happen, so it's just cheesey gamism" way, but just a "this feels off from the Star Wars we know and love and play this game to emulate".  It's certainly not the only thing like that for us, either - clusters of Firesprays or YT-transports also just "feel off", and get avoided (for the most part).

 

But yeah, that's totally just my little group of players.  I wouldn't expect people to not do it for actual competitive play - as folks have said, I expect people to use every advantage they can.

 

It is the kind of thing that I assume, like "abusing" door control in the old Star Wars Miniatures game, will be "dealt with" by future (or wave 5) additions to the game.