No end of turn declaration step? We need one.

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

Interesting topic. I almost always end my turn by saying "your turn" or something like that, so I'm not that player, and I haven't met anyone with this "problem", but I haven't played it competitively yet.

 

Incidentally, playing Destiny with a chess clock, like I suggested in another thread, would turn both this and stalling into a non-issue.

 

Looking at earlier posts in this thread it seems that a number of people think it's a burden to even have to say "your turn", I doubt there would be any chance of getting acceptance of chess clock. I like the idea of a chess clock for tournaments. It would keep things moving and takes away intentional stalling and slow play.

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

... I know a turn is super short in this game, but come on. Do you stuff then say, I end my turn, DONE, problem solved, no rules just common sense. 

 

Basically this is the gist of my argument. I can't for the life of me figure out how people can't just acknowledge that they are done with their turn so the other person can go. Common sense is wonderful, but not everyone uses it unfortunately. Thanks for putting it so succinctly. 

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

I hope you take the time to work with others

I don't know if your comment was to me or not so I just wanted to take the time to say that I was addressing a potential issue in the game in tournament settings. I definitely wasn't encouraging unsportsmanlike play.

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

Note that "after" effect triggers automatically, so technically the choice is mandatory.

I would submit that Luke's ability is what is meant by mandatory ability under the tournament doc. quoted above.

Luke: After you activate this character, draw a card.

There is no may in Luke's ability so it has to trigger and be added to the queue and resolve.

Another thing to consider: trigger is "activate this character" - that means it should be added to the queue immediately when he turns Vader card. If he doesn't say anything after the roll, the activation is done and it's technically too late (it's not really "after" - people are often confused by the words before/after).

I think this techniquely wrong, but in practice works out virtually the same in nearly every instance.

------

Rulebook pg16

After Abilities

If, during the course of a game, an after ability meets its trigger condition, it resolves following the resolution of the trigger condition. Unlike before abilities, after abilities do not interrupt the flow of the game, and instead wait their turn in the queue to resolve.

-------

Since the action of activating a character includes exhausting the card and rolling all of its dice any after ability that triggered on activating the character would resolve last.

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

I run into trouble because in my head I know I am done. A simple prompt "are you done?" works pretty well.

 

I would also suggest you prompt him to understand that the use of Vader's ability is optional so you expect him to tell you he is using it. Seems to me, he knew he had the ability, he knew you knew he had the ability and was waiting for you to discard a card without being told. So from his POV you may have been slowing the game down.

 

In general I think this is just a matter of talking to each other and talking through your turn. "I play this card, spending 2 resources and taking the dice. Your turn." people tend to echo the process if you do it, they do it.

 

I understand what you are saying, and as I mentioned, I agree that in casual games that is the way to play and the way I do play. 

 

The issue I was trying to convey was that in a tournament setting this kind of hand holding situation should not be present. The way that it is now it creates an awkward play situation that could easily be remedied.

[No end of turn declaration step? We need one.]

Alternate title:
Your After effect isn't responding... Please add an End turn declaration to proceed.

Sorry this is long, but I felt it needed describing.

Short background as to why this came up.
I was playing a game with a someone who had Vader as one of his characters. He would activate Vader and rolling the dice. Then he would sit there. No expression of "I'm done. It's your turn". I know that he may force me to discard, but he's missing it. When I finally ask if it's my turn he goes "oh yeah discard a card". The only thing that clues him in to look at his cards for missed things is the time passage and my prompting him.

We've probably all played against someone who doesn't signal that their turn has ended and it's your turn now.

 

In casual games it's not a big deal, but in tournaments it could become an issue.

From the tournament rules doc.

Missed Opportunities
Players are expected to follow the game’s rules, remembering to perform actions and use dice and card effects when indicated. It is all players’ responsibility to maintain a proper game state, and to ensure that all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged.
...

I'm happy to do my part to ensure all mandatory abilities and game steps are acknowledged, but I don't want to play my opponents deck for them by reminding them they can use their "may" ability.
And I don't want to waste time during a tournament game waiting to see how long it takes for them to look at me and ask why I'm not going.

The typical turn in which a character is activated is: Activate a character and roll it's dice. You only get one action so that was it and many people don't feel the need to say "Your turn" after rolling.

The problem with not having an acknowledged "I've ended my turn / it's your turn" step in the rules is caused by cards (mainly characters) that have the After/may effect on their card.

Examples:
Vader: After you activate this character you may force an opponent to choose and discard a card from their hand.

Baka-Tik: After an opponent's character is defeated, you may ready this character.

Jabba: After you activate this character, you may reroll a Yellow die.

Rey: After you play an upgrade on this character, you may take one additional action.

There are more cards, but you get the point.

All of these after/may abilities can and will be missed by some players. These aren't "mandatory abilities" that their opponent should need to tip them to. You don't tell your chess opponent that they could checkmate you if they miss it.

The only way to keep things moving along smoothly for both players and to avoid someone rushing their opponent is to have, either a verbal "It's your turn now" signal (which is the simplest) or a physical object that is manipulated to signal your turn is over, added to the rules as the last thing a player does on their turn.

What do you all think about this?

Hopefully I haven't missed something obvious, but if I have please point it out to me.

[Discard/remove from play clarification]

You are correct. 

 

Page 10

PART 3. AREAS OF PLAY

Each player has their own areas of play. These areas are

either in play or out-of-play

 

IN PLAY

...

••“From play” is short for “from the in play area.”

 

OUT OF PLAY

Cards in a player’s hand, deck, and discard pile are out of play

and their abilities cannot be used until they are played

...

[Difference between "Play and Move" Rey and Redeploy]

Question: Does Rey's ability trigger if an upgrade is redeployed to her?

 

Her abilitys says: "After you play an upgrade on this character, you may take one additional action."

 

On cards with Redeploy it says: "After its character is defeated, move this card."

 

/tldr So to me that all reads like Rey's ability will not trigger because the redeployed card has not been played on her, it has only been moved to her. I'm pretty sure that there are other people who will say that it does trigger her ability so I would like to hear peoples answer and reasoning. I would really appreciate an FFG answer as too.

 

The rulebook has this to say in several areas:

Page 10

IN PLAY

CHARACTERS & PLAYED CARDS

After an upgrade or support is played, it is added to the play

area and is in play. Characters also start the game in play,

and remain there until defeated. Events are never in play;

they are played, resolved, and discarded without entering the

play area.

• The abilities on cards in play can be used.

• A card enters play when it transitions from an out-of-play

area to the in play area.

• “From play” is short for “from the in play area.”

 

Page 13

PLAY A CARD FROM HAND

...

• Playing an Upgrade: The player chooses and attaches the

upgrade to a character by placing it next to or below that

character. Before paying the cost to play an upgrade, the

player can choose to replace an upgrade that is already

on the chosen character. The cost to play the new upgrade

is decreased by the cost of the old upgrade, and the old

upgrade is discarded when the new one comes into play. If

the old upgrade costs equal to or more than the new one,

then the new upgrade is free.

 

Page 15

DEFEATED CHARACTERS

When a character has damage on it equal to its health, it is

immediately defeated. Remove all of its dice from the game

(both its character and upgrade dice), discard all upgrades

on it, and remove the character card from the game.

• Any excess damage dealt to a character from a source that

defeats the character is ignored. A player can deal more

damage to a character than they have health, even when

distributing the damage as they wish (e.g., from the special

on the F-11D Rifle).

• When all of a player’s characters are defeated, they lose.

 

Page 17

KEYWORDS

...

REDEPLOY

This keyword only appears on upgrades. After the attached

character is defeated, its controller may immediately move

this upgrade to any of their other characters. The upgrade die

moves to the new character card, even if it was in the dice pool.

• The Redeploy keyword ignores play restrictions when

attaching to a new character.

 

Page 18

PART 8. TERMS

...

MOVE

Some effects allow players to move cards or tokens.

• When something moves, it cannot move to its same

(current) placement. If there is no valid destination for a

move, the move cannot resolve.

• When damage is moved to a new character, it ignores

shields and the character is not considered to have

taken damage.

 

So to me that all reads like Rey's ability will not trigger because the redeployed card has not been played on her, it has only been moved to her. I'm pretty sure that there are other people who will say that it does trigger her ability so I would like to hear peoples answer and reasoning. 

 

Thanks