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encail

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About encail

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  • Birthday 04/11/1982

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    encail

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    Salvador, Bahia - Brazil
  1. Don't worry @muribundi, no offense taken, and it was kinda funny, with all my long speech, I was sabotaging myself... lol
  2. Well, I definitely played myself. I fell on a trap thinking that, no matter how, the ion canon would not trigger Kath ability, my bad. Using Kath as an argument, I was wrong and that was a poor choice, that in fact show a possibility for this sinergy (TLT + Harpoon) as intended by the game designers, as pointed by @muribundi, but not necessarily proves that harpooned should be triggered by TLT, after all, Kath is about cancelled results, and as soon as they happen, cancelled results will not change no matter the step/moment, and the condition will be met. "Uncanceled" damage is the problem around Harpooned case, because it's a state that can change during the attack, but I took a hard punch in the face, from myself, and I am in no shape to argue anymore (auto KO). I will just work to always loss the initiative against squads based on Harpoon Missiles and TLT. If the game designers intended in this way, so be it, I just wanted a FAQ or official response to settle this once and for all as soon as possible, but they are probably studying the players interactions to finally make a "choice". (I am feeling like a guinea pig... hahaha)
  3. @muribundi is probably right and I played myself with this example/argument
  4. I agree with ZealuxMyr about trigger and resolve timing: they are not necessarily the same, they can be different from each other. Most of our analysis about this case is based on interpretations about Harpooned been resolved on step 6, 7 or between, making this the first card, that I can remeber, that could be able to interrupt an attack effect and resolving it's own effect before it, creating another type of interaction in the game, I don't like this approach but it's a possibility, and only a FAQ will be able to solve this without a doubt. What really makes me unconfortable, is that a lot of people that I know is using this way of thinking to do an Harpooned TLT exploit, just because they can, and ignoring a lot of others signs on rules and other card behaviors clarified or changed on the FAQ. It feels like: "Ok, I can see a lot of arguments and other mechanics on the game that indicates a conclusion where TLT effect must be resolved before another effect of other card, but because FFG made this miscalculation on the wording I can use it the other way around, who cares about how the game designers was thinking when they created this card, let's explore it like we can, while we can". Obviously not all players defending TLT + Harpooned as a valid sinergy think like this, but there are a lot of examples, that will not be taken on consideration by a lot of people because the wording is not exactly the same, showing that probably that's not how we should interpret TLT attacks and effect, the steps and the term "uncanceled"(hit symbol) and "uncanceled"(critical symbol), but people around my gaming circle just discard any argument because:"the wording is different, unconclusive but different", like it's never happened before with other cards. Ok, the wording of Harpooned is different and give us a margin of interpretation and error, I get it. Hear me out, there's an effect that clearly is triggered and resolved on step 6, even before the attack hits, that take in consideration that canceled critical result dealt by ion canon (and any other kind of weapon that cancel it's own results) is not considered valid. I am talking about Imperial Kath Scarlet, and is one argument and example that shows us how these kind of weapons work, they don't generate damage or critical damage like other weapons, but people refuse to talk about it because harpooned is not Kath, that's a rule only for Kath, the timing is different, the exactly choice of words is different... etc, etc, etc... Well, if it's something inconclusive, why not rely on the examples of the past, even if they are slightly different? No, that's wrong, let's use the exploit. The exploit is good. The exploit is a better solution, let's try to figure it out a cranky ruling about initiative and who "owns" the card, and even XX-23 S-Thread Tracers, a card that dispense FAQ because any other precedent examples of other weapons, will be able to activate Harpooned, a missile with 4 squad points that don't spend TL to be used. That's how I am feeling right now, no more #flycasual, because the people around you will behave like if they are in a competitive cenario of a mainstream card game competiton. Again, not everyone that defends this sinergy think like this, but there are trolls everywhere that will not use arguments and logic. I beg your pardon for venting this out. I am sorry by my outburst. In short, like ZealuxMyr explained before, and it's something really important, triggering and resolving an effect can occur on different timing. Why Harpooned can't be triggered when hit but resolved on step 7, this is unthinkable? Why necessarily Harpooned condition need to be resolved imediatly when triggered? Why we are interrupting the effect of the TLT attack, to solve another new effect that triggered on the same time that an effect of the attack in motion? Why we are ignoring other possibilities with more background just to exploit TLT + Harpooned? ps.: This right here is only my personal speculation: I think that we are looking wrongly to the wording "canceled/uncanceled", it feels like "Schrodinger damage" until step 7 when we can finnaly open the box.
  5. It would be nice to have a quick response from FFG about this topic, we will probably have to wait for a FAQ, and use speculation until there.
  6. Leaving this issue to initiative, seens like a really bad design/broken mechanics to me... Well, it's only my opinion. Here in my country there's a strong belief that this issue should be solved by initiative too. I brought my argument about Xizor ability clarification and the similarity with the harpooned condition to the largest discussion group here (I believe). This is the base of the argument, they have the same window: when he/you is/are hit, and they share a similar condition: uncanceled (critical symbol), plus uncanceled (damage symbol) for Xizor. Here in my country the text on Xizor clarification is discarded as argument to analyse any other behavior, because it's an exception that affects Xizor, and Xizor only. If on the FAQ the text on Xizor was not a clarification, and rather changed the card wording ,as you can see in Manaroo: "This card should read", Xizor clarification could be used as an argument in this case. I am not convinced about this way of thinking, the choice of words on the clarification were precise enough to rely on, but it has a logic behind it that I can understand and respect, disagreeing but undertanding that is a possibility.
  7. I can't understand why Harpoon Missiles would be triggered by TLT. Looking on the text clarification on Xizor, it's obvious that it's the same window of effects that affects the behavior of Xizor's ability, so we should treat it likewise, and that is more than sufficient for me. On page 7 of the FAQ, is stated that simultaneous effects can be triggered and resolved as fit to the player controlling the effect, but one effect, and subsequent effects, should be resolved before another effect on the same window of execution can be resolved. With that in mind, I can't resolve harpooned before the attack and it's effects are resolved, it's not like a response reaction like you can see on card games. This is the same mechanics that determines that a plasma torpedoes effect will be resolved before a harpooned condition, stripping a shield from the defender before an eventual damage is caused with harpooned. And last, but not less important, when we read all the cards that are refering to uncanceled damage, that makes zero sense to me that TLT effect that cancels the damage will not be considerated, if that was the case, the text on harpooned condition should state a trigger on step 6 (Compare Results), just like the clarification of Crack Shot that states: Crack Shot must be used at the start of the “Compare Results” step
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