Metushelah reacted to Nivrap in Help Incorporating Bendu Philosophy?
I think the episode actually helps, seeing as we have an example of the Bendu using powers associated with the Dark Side to combat Thrawn, something I'd definitely consider good. I don't think him attacking Kanan made him "evil" in any sense, since it was Kanan who insulted him, and the Bendu was still portrayed as a hero in the end of the episode. The Rebels brought war to Atollon, and the Bendu fought back. This is consistent with his character as a force of balance, as the war itself brings imbalance. It's much like the philosophy the Lurmen leader held in The Clone Wars, that war is war regardless of who's fighting it. The dark side is anger, and passion in general (including love), but those emotions can be exerted in positive ways, as the Bendu showed.
I am trying to avoid this thread devolving into a "That's not how the Force works!" discussion, however, so here's a report on how my homemade system's been working so far! It's been slow going, since we've only just started and my Force-user character can't use that much of the Force yet, but he's got the right mindset for it. My system naturally evens a player out at around 0 if he just uses whatever pips he rolls, but it'll be harder for him if he wants to specifically go Light or Dark, since he'll have to ignore opposite pips and might not get as much use out of his Force powers, with the tradeoff being that he gets increased stats. I still want to make sure the benefits and drawbacks between Light and Dark are balanced, but so far it's been going well!
Metushelah reacted to OggDude in Another Character Generator
Don't worry, this isn't an April Fools joke
Added all new information from "No Disintegrations", including specializations, species, talents, motivations, backgrounds, obligations, signature abilities, plus all equipment, attachments, and vehicles. Added the Mandalorian Human species from "Friends Like These". This also entailed a number of changes to the species pane. This is the only update from "Friends Like These" in this version. This adventure will be dealt with in its entirety in future releases. NOTE: If you see two Mandalorian Human species listed, it means that you've imported the "Spark of Rebellion" data set. If you remove the data set, the second one will go away. If you don't want the unofficial version, but want the rest of the import, just manually remove it from the data set in your DataCustom directory.
The Philaxian Phase-Knife had an incorrect price. It is now correctly 1,500 credits. The Ghostfire Crystal was not flagged as a crystal and would show up as a valid attachment for non-lightsabers. This has been fixed. The Shistavanen species had an issue with its skill options. This has been fixed. The Custom Fit armor attachment had two optional mods instead of one. Also, the remove setback effects were not being applied to Athletics and Stealth skills. Both issues are resolved. Modified the training lightsaber emitter to remove Sunder and Breach so it will work with a pre-made basic lightsaber. Most of the new vehicles for "Endless Vigil" still had the AddedItem tag on them. They have been removed. Menace and Harass are now Force talents. Renegade heavy blaster pistol was the wrong encumbrance. This has been fixed. The pistol hilt attachment was missing price, rarity, and HP. This has been fixed. Changed M-300 hunting blaster to "Stun Setting", rather than "Stun Damage". A few vehicles had incorrect weapons. Specifically, certain ships in the source books are listed as having a "laser cannon" when it should be "medium laser cannon". "Laser cannon" is actually a weapon from Onslaught at Arda I, which was mistakenly given to these vehicles. They have been changed to medium laser cannons. Fixed weapon layout on TIE-Interdictor. Changed the Overcharged Actuating Module so it's available for blaster carbines, rather than just any carbine. New Features/Enhancements:
In the Innate Weapon editor, you can now specify the encumbrance of the innate weapon. This encumbrance is added to the item it belongs to (except for vehicles). Added support for cancelling threat. This can be specified for skills using the die modifier dialog, or for a weapon by specifying the "Cancel Threat from Check" mod in the mod editor. The symbol can be used in descriptions using [CANTHREAT] or [CT]. Added support for upgrading difficulty. This can be specified for skills using the die modifier dialog, or for a weapon by specifying the "Upgrade Difficulty of Check" mod in the mod editor. The symbol can be used in descriptions using [UPDIFFICULTY] or [UD]. Added support for items that carry other items with no encumbrance cost, such as Cargo Clothing or the Integrated Holster attachment. You can now choose which items are being stored. Encumbrance will be automatically calculated depending on the items being stored, and whether or not the items involved are carried or equipped. Added a "Choose Option" button to the Equipment pane. This allows you to modify both item and attachment options (if they require choices) when the item is selected in the Owned grid. Modified how attachment choices are done in the Item Attachment dialog to make it less annoying. If you select an optional mod that requires a user choice, you will only be shown the choice dialog that affects that mod, rather than always having to choose everything. If the attachment has a user choice, but the mod selected does not affect it, the choice dialog will not be displayed, since the mod selection doesn't change it. If a mod does have a user choice, then selecting and deselecting it will bring up the user choice dialog, since the mod count will have changed either way. If removing an optional mod removes the choice, the choice dialog will, obviously, not be displayed. Talents now support changing the critical rating of attacks based upon skill, skill type, or an unarmed-only option. This was needed for the Iron Body talent. Note that the talent editor does not currently support talent changes to items (and there are now a number of these). This may be added to the talent editor in the future. Added a "Char" column to the skill grid that contains the abbreviation of the characteristic used for the skill. You may sort on this column to group skills by characteristics. Modified the way species are handled in the generator. The non-career grid can now also be used for selecting from a set of skills, or from a skill type (combat, general, or knowledge). The skill grid can now also work in unison with the option drop-down, which means you can now have a non-career or skill selection as just one option in a multi-option choice. Before, the non-career grid could only be used with an option choice consisting of just a single option (the non-career choice). These changes were made to support the Mandalorian Human species which has one option choice with two different skill selection options (combat and knowledge). Further modified the way species are handled in the generator. The option buttons are now hidden if the species only has a single option choice with multiple options. Because of this, Klatooinians are currently the only species that dislays option buttons. Added an OptionSkills collection to the character species class to support the new skill/type feature. All configuration settings for the UI, like options, form placement, etc., are now centralized in one place in the AppData\SWCharGen directory. They will no longer be removed between versions. The size and position of all sizable forms is now saved. Bug Fixes:
In the Crafting dialog, inbuilt items were not adding their encumbrance value to the crafted item's. This is now performed. In the Crafting dialog, if a lightsaber is inbuilt into an item, the description says "weapon". This has been fixed. In the Crafting dialog, the Personalized Design effect was incorrectly also applying Delicate Balance. This has been fixed. In the Crafting dialog, only effects that change the item being crafted will now change the final item's price. Before, all effects would modify the item's final price, including ones like "Lessons Learned", which does not change the item, but only affects the crafting session. There was an issue with signature vehicle talents where a PC's vehicle was showing up twice in the choose list, and some mods weren't being applied correctly to the vehicle. This has been fixed. Grid headers weren't always getting translated properly. This is now fixed. Adversaries were not taking into consideration weapon qualities derived from attachments or other sources, just from their base weapon. This has been fixed. Changing characteristics was not updating weapons in the Equipment pane. This has been fixed. Most crystals were set to replace existing qualities with the crystal's. The only crystal that should actually do this is the Krayt Dragon Pearl. All others are now set to "gain" these qualities (ie, use if higher than existing, or keep existing). There was a bug in the routine that got item descriptor counts. It now special-cases quality descriptors and returns the final count, after everything is applied. In GM Tools, when using the Group dialog, clicking the "Award" button would cause an exception. This has been fixed. In GM Tools, when using the Group dialog, changes to characters were not immediately showing up in the description panels. They will now show up as soon as a character is modified. Made a slight logic change to the options grid in the attachment dialog. The flicker should be gone, the response better, and some odd behavior eliminated. The generator will no longer start with a character that immediately needs saving when GM Grants are turned on. Fixed some spelling mistakes in the data editor. In GM Tools, reports weren't always being sorted properly. This has been fixed. If a character with morality was loaded, it would start off as needing to be saved. This will no longer happen.
Metushelah reacted to emsquared in Help Incorporating Bendu Philosophy?
But it doesn't actually have any negative effect unless you're rping like a Darkside user, murder-hobo. Even then it has a benefit to the cost.
I have demonstrated to my players that I invoke the system primarily based off their rp, and many of them now seem to take it as a badge of honor, of good rp, when they invoke Morality. I give them choice, "You seem to be rping a lot of anger here, are you trying to invoke the Morality system?" And they ask to make Discipline rolls to determine if they succumb to Fear or Anger in an rp moment.
And it's wonderful.
Its all about presentation, then implementation, and ultimately showing your players they can trust you with their story and that you're not there to spank them but to evoke the feeling of the lore and world.
Metushelah got a reaction from awayputurwpn in Consular Sourcebook Confirmed?!?!?!?!?!?
Not quite Stan Fresh, it's a 0 silhouette hermit Yoda riding a 1 silhouette Luke... and he is surrounded by animals so he can use survival instead of discipline to regain strain. He even used soothing tone on Luke to make him regain strain when he got too tired to run.
Metushelah reacted to Aetrion in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
Unleash doesn't specify anywhere that it has to project lightning. It just says you are projecting your negative emotions as a form of energy, which could be pretty much anything. Sound, heat, light... You can have some fun with it if you want to use it as an unusual/unique power. I'm thinking if I get it on my Ithorian character I'll play it as destructive sound vibrations he shapes with his four throats, like a highly advanced form of Bellow.
Metushelah reacted to HappyDaze in [Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.
Hurling someone into a high ceiling (or against the upper portions of a wall) so they take damage on the way up and again when they fall down is loads of fun...but not for the schmuck that gets tossed.
Metushelah got a reaction from Benjan Meruna in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
@SEApocalypse Mind doing the math and posting here to show how it becomes this ultimate power? (currently i don't see how really).
Also, does the burn quality of Unleash increase with the damage you add (the successes and the extra strength upgrades) or does it stay with the basic amount of Willpower? (after all burn's damage is dependent on the base damage which in this case is your willpower).
Now while protect is awesome in it's mitigating factor, you still lose an action each round ! so it can be awesome projecting your Force Bubble around you and 2 more allies with a reasonable pip result (5, 2 for activation, 1 magnitude with upgrade 2, 1 for duration, 1 for control against all attack types) as a player you wont be holding it for long, because after a couple of encounters you would get bored. In my experience with many games played and different systems, the players need "buttons to press" meaning different options for their agency feeling and doing Force Bubble each time after such a large investment will make me and i am assuming them as well feel robbed.
The other force powers allow for utility usage even when not in combat like Influence of course, Misdirect, Move etc, but here this is a completely combat encounter force power which costs a lot but is not interesting enough i think. That's the shame because it's supposed to be really cool, and i would love to hear the Developers suddenly come with an Errata where they make each power cool in combat but also have tangible results which will make you happy to play them, Unleash currently is not one of them i think.
Maybe shortening all the powers would make sense, making the trees shorter thus making you spend less XP but also the upgrades will cost more to use with pips because you wont jump 3 levels of magnitude with one 1 force pip but only 1 or maybe 2 levels max. You will be able to get the mastery upgrades faster for their utility but in combat they would still be not over powered? Should a new thread be opened for such a discussion or is this just my feeling?
Metushelah reacted to Aetrion in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
There are tons of powers people don't use because other powers are simply better. Move in particular is simply too strong, it's one of the most universally useful utility powers in the game, and unless you're fighting in an empty room with cortosis walls you're going to be able to think of a Sil 2 or 3 object you can throw, making it also an incredibly strong damage power with only 3-4 pips to fully activate.
That said, I kind of like that Protect/Unleash takes so much power to be good, because it's a way to keep those powers restricted to only the most powerful force users without making it completely impossible to dabble wit them. If you assume someone like Palpatine has a force rating of 12+ it makes sense that he'd be using Unleash but most characters just don't have the raw power to do it.
From a game balance standpoint though, it's just very obvious that Move was written for a 2 FD character, and is out of line the second you're throwing 3 or 4 and there is essentially no chance you won't get a full activation. You end up doing 20-40 damage with the only real cost being that you have to pay some attention while the GM describes the scene, or worst case scenario flip a pip to make a declaration for an appropriate object.
And yea, Protect is a heck of a low stronger than Unleash if you're using the light side version at least. One action is a low price to pay for potentially nixing all the damage your group was going to take that turn.
Metushelah reacted to SEApocalypse in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
If you use unleash on regular base, you will not use protect on multiple target. The lightside variant without doubt is freaking awesome, forget about losing an action, you can negate so much damage, especially in a force user group and with other defensive talents. Not being able to get damage pass soak means no crits too and protect is not subject to breach nor pierce.
Now for burn an base damage, "add 1 damage per strength update to the base damage of unleash", sounds like you increase the base damage and thus the burn damage, using 4 strength updates and spending 3 pips on activating unleash and burn makes already solid 3x17 damage with just 6 pips. Spend another pip on magnitude and you are dealing 3x3x17 damage, which is not even much if you are willing to spend a destiny point or four … as you can unleash 3 times in a single turn, buring true a lot of enemies, strain and destiny points in short order. 459 damage + 9*successes from the discipline checks. 6 Advantages needed on each check to burn all 3 targets each time.
Now move by comparison, assuming a blank ship tech and a large back of pebbles gets you for 6 pips basically extreme range and as many shots and 5 + success hits as you can generate advantages, even generous that is usually at best 5 hits. If you have stormtroopers or other sil 1 objects in the environment that is 5*(10+x) damage where x = number of success. With the right talent you can do this twice in a turn.
In a hangar you might be able to grab sil 3 or 4 ship, hurl those instead, you get 5x(40+x) damage, impressive, certainly as well longer range, but you starting to run dry of those objects to hurl as you smash them to smaller pieces with your violent use of force move and you are now close to the force pips spend. But at least you can do that twice a turn too with the right talent, but this requires rolling unrealistic 10 advantages twice and 5 pips as well each time and you might have a hard time to find a hangar with 10 shuttles, even more so when in a building. ;-)
Still, dropping a shuttle or even bigger objects on the opposition certainly does a more direct approach than slowly burning them to death and once you hit sil 2 objects soak is a bigger issue for the burn from unleash than it is for move.
For single target damage unleashed: 2 Pips for the ability, 3 strength, 1 burn = 17*3+x, 51 - 3*soak damage, taking longer because of burn, and certainly not as good as saber swarm or jury rigged autofire or even move with decent big burn, not overall impressive, but rather save if you first burn and ensnare them and watch them afterwards die, especially against glowstick opponents certainly a lot of fun. And it comes without the trouble of an opposed check to control their movement.
Metushelah reacted to Benjan Meruna in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
-Maximum possible extra success with those stats is 6. Base damage 3 plus 6 net successes (Which you have 0.2% of getting, but let's roll with that) means that you do 9 damage. So, now you're managing to vaguely approach blaster Rifle damage, woo.
Of course, you have less than a 25% chance of getting above 3 uncancelled successes, so you're realistically still stuck with the blaster pistol.
-Protect doesn't really work nearly as well for Dark Side users, which someone uses unleash will almost certainly be. You can only protect yourself, and there's a lot of upgrades that only Light Side Users can take advantage of, while Unleash is the opposite.
-Move damage, while it depends on the environment to an extent, can be done by throwing your target into a wall or the ground for base 10 damage (sil 1). If there are multiple enemies, you can damage them with an auto-fire check by triggering the Magnitude upgrade and spending 2 advantage or a Triumph. If you have enemies, you have a way to damage them with Move. Also, while Move is blatant, Unleash is literal lightning bolts from the hands. It;s very true that either will call down attention if you use them, which is only more reason to make Unleash worth the risk in the same way Move can be.
-The difference between Engaged and Short is slim, and vanishes into nothing when you remember that the base power of Unleash takes one more pip than Influence anyways.
-We're talking about Unleash, here. Just using the power gives you a Conflict for the road, and as mentioned before several upgrades require you to be a Dark Side User. If using Dark Side pips is something that gives you players pause, they're barking up the wrong Force Tree. And while Bind doesn't outdamage Unleash (unless you spend 4 or so force pips...), it does provide a better way to incapacitate your opponent while mega-critting them.
-As mentioned before, Unleash takes 2 pips for the base power. For the same cost, you can boost Harm with a Magnitude upgrade, which takes it back up to Short.
It's complicated, sure, but in pretty much every way Unleash just isn't worth the XP investment. It needs a boost, and what kind of boost that needed is hard to say. Bypassing soak makes sense from a narrative standpoint (I don't think stormtrooper laminate armor would have diminished any of Luke's pain), and might make it worthwhile from a mechanics standpoint. You could also give it Pierce based on Willpower, so that you don't bypass soak completely.
Metushelah reacted to Donovan Morningfire in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
Thing to remember with Unleash is that you're adding uncancelled successes to the damage. And by the time you've gotten Force Rating 3, your character should have a Willpower 3 and Discipline 3 at the bare minimum. Another big detail to remember with Unleash is that you're also getting Protect along with it, which is a very solid defensive power for those times when it might be better to tank than try for damage output. I've seen test PCs with a high Willpower and Discipline be able to pretty much stonewall lightsaber attacks. A 10XP Control Upgrade lets Protect add ranks of Defense equal to advantage generated, and they last until the start of the Force user's next turn, which can be pretty handy to mitigate the damage of other attacks. So don't underestimate the value of Protect, especially when facing down foes that can dish out a lot of damage.
Move damage is largely dependent on the silhouette of what you can throw, and baring the GM allowing liberal application of the "tear things loose" Control Upgrade most encounters are going to see PCs limited to Silhouette 2 objects at most, which means an Average ranged attack check, making it a bit harder to hit against non-minion threats. Move is also incredibly blatant, so if there's any witnesses there's a good chance the local Imperials will be notified of the presence of one of those Jedi terrorists in the area.
Influence's damage is also limited to being engaged with the target, unless you've purchased Range Upgrades. And in a setting where blasters are pretty much the order of the day, time that you spend getting engaged gives your opponents a chance to shoot at you, and it's a simple matter for an opponent to spend a maneuver to disengage and then blast you from short range. I had a PC in an EotE one-shot learn that lesson that hard way when he charged at a group of stormtroopers, figuring they'd be so little threat that he didn't need to suffer strain for an extra maneuver. He survived the barrage from the stormtroopers' blaster rifles, but lost nearly half his wounds and his action due to a critical injury.
Bind's ability to damage is reliant upon using dark side pips, which for most PCs means earning Conflict, suffering strain, and flipping a Destiny Point, with the damage itself limited to the number of Force Points spent on the power. No upgrades purchased means you only inflict a single wound, which isn't really that great of a bonus.
With Harm, again you're limited to being engaged with the target barring Range upgrades, which can have the problems that I noted above under Influence.
So the issue of "balance" is a lot more complicated than you think it is.
Metushelah reacted to GroggyGolem in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
1. Influence indeed ignores soak. I'm unsure what you mean about Misdirect, as it is not a Force power that deals wounds or strain to a target but produces Illusions.
2. It does not ignore soak. The damage potential of it comes from more than just the base ability. In addition, there is the fact that you still count extra success as additional damage on the attack.
2.2 Unleash is more based around using the Burn or Ensnare qualities & when you acquire the Mastery upgrade, dealing a high value critical injury (which could indeed outright kill someone).
Metushelah reacted to The Grand Falloon in Influence, Misdirect and maybe Unleash should ignore soak?
It could stand to be more clear, but generally, if something inflicts "strain" or "wounds" it ignores soak, while if it inflicts "damage," it does not. So, yeah, Influence ignores soak.
Unleash does not and should not. Yes, it seems fairly weak, and it is when you first get it, but remember it requires no equipment. No blasters, no lightsabers, not even some heavy objects around to hurl with the Move power. Fire, Ice, or Lightning just comes out of you. That's pretty cool. Then add some upgrades. You have a FR of 3, so you will always have enough juice to power at least 1 upgrade type, probably more. If you're playing a Force Sorcerer (a "Forcerer!"), at FR 3 you should have Willpower at least 4, plus several ranks of Discipline. Grab that 5-pt Strength upgrade as soon as you can, because if you generate a lot of pips, you can tap it over and over again. Heck, get the 10-point one as well. Boom, you can crank it to Base Damage 6. That's a blaster pistol right there. You have more pips? Why not immobilize the enemy with Ensnare, or make them keep suffering with Burn? Once you're at FR 4, you can reliably start hitting them with multiple upgrades. Magnitude, so you can blast a whole crew. Get all the Strength upgrades, as they make the Burn quality even more painful. Pop that "Unleash as a maneuver" upgrade, hit them with Unleash and Move at the same time to turn a bunch of enemies into fireballs, streaking through the night sky.
Metushelah reacted to awayputurwpn in [Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.
Richardbuxton's "too slow" was in the context of range bands.
Bind doesn't give us a traditional "Force push" the way we think of it. You must Immobilize the target. The immobilization lasts until your next turn. And "immobilized" means you can't take any maneuvers; therefore, you wouldn't be able to "stand up" (for example, like Palpatine does). Bind does allow for a push/pull effect, but only within the context of binding the character so he/she cannot take any maneuvers. Move allows for a simple push/pull to be affected without anything else going on. Simply put, Move is just more versatile than Bind when it comes to telekinetically moving your targets. Bind can push/pull a target just fine, but it comes with the immobilization effect—and wounds if you use any dark side pips—whereas Move doesn't have any of that baggage.
And at any rate, I'm not sure your list of Bind detractors counts as "most of us;" even if @Richardbuxton was saying that Bind can't be used to push people (which he wasn't), that's still just four people, two or three or whom (at least) have already conceded the point. And there were plenty more than 4 people involved the debate.
You also say that you weren't wrong, but all you've gotta do is search this thread for "too slow" and come up with several results where you argue that Move is too slow, which is wrong. And of course we all know that both you and I were both wrong about bypassing the Basic power of Bind to effect a simple "Force push" effect without an immobilization of the target (frankly, I'm happy to be wrong about that; it seemed weirdly convoluted to me).
Metushelah reacted to Richardbuxton in [Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.
Probably for you or I it would.
The nice thing though? They don't even have to care. They can run the game however their group wants. If they GM and want it their way then fine. But it puts to bed the question of lawyering RAW/RAI and shifts it where it should be: House Rules.
Metushelah reacted to Richardbuxton in FFG Developer Answered Questions
I got a response from Sam Stewart to my questions:
Move and Bind:
Can Move be used on Living beings, including beasts, PC's, NPC's, and Droids?
When using Move to take something from Engaged to Extreme range in a single action without the Control upgrade to cause damage does the entire travel time happen in a single round?
If not then do you have guidance on how long it should take?
When using Bind, in particular the Control upgrade for moving your target, do you need to activate the base power and immobilise your target before being able to move them? Or can you spend only a single Force Point on activating the power to only move the target a single range band?
(ie does the movement control upgrade add a new way to activate the basic power or is it something that can only be activated after first activating the normal "Immobilise & wound" basic power)
Can the Bind control upgrade that moves the target one range band closer or further away be used to push/pull the target into/through an obstacle?
If yes, what damage would the target and/or obstacle take?
When using Bind, only "targets, others & enemies" are mentioned as to what you can target with the power. Can one use Bind on living beings such as animals & non-living beings, such as droids?
If yes, is there a silhouette limit on the Bind power?
5c. Can Bind be used on non-sentient targets such as equipment, ships, Blaster shots, doors and the general environment.
When a Force User spends a Force Point from a power check to activate the basic Bind power is the target always Staggered? Or can the Force User chose to activate the basic power without Staggering the target
Now I screwed up on the final question, typing Stagger instead of Immobilise, I have replied to Sam telling him as much and asking for an answer to what the question should have been, so basically ignore that question until I get the response and I edit it in.
Metushelah reacted to Richardbuxton in FFG Developer Answered Questions
Can a player using the Force Leap Action from the Enhance Force Power use it to Engage or Disengage as part of the leap?
If yes, then does that also allow them to engage or disengage when leaping to, or from, Medium Range (and as a Manoeuvre with the appropriate upgrades)?
How many Force Leaps with the Range Upgrade are required to reach Extreme Range for an unengaged Force User?
* Is it 3, Start-Medium-Long-Extreme (counting leaps as equal to 2 move maneuvers, or twice the distance*)
* Or is it 5, Start-Medium-Medium2-Long-Long2-Extreme (counting leaps as normal distance)
Now clearly he didn't answer the second of my questions, which I replied to him about so if I get an updated answer I will provide it
Metushelah reacted to mouthymerc in [Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.
I love when people try to rationalize movies in game terms like it matters. Like the movies are constrained in any way by game mechanics. It is entertaining though.
Metushelah reacted to Superunknown in [SPOILERS]: Star Wars: Rebels - Thoughts?
Agreed. That was an excellent episode. Don't think there's been a Star Wars story that so embodies the concept of "people swinging swords at each other as an allegory for their own personal conflict with each other and themselves" since... 1984? Also really liked that once again, two characters have a brief argument wherein both parties are right, but their own personal experience has coloured their interpretation of things. Good stuff.
Metushelah reacted to Stan Fresh in [SPOILERS]: Star Wars: Rebels - Thoughts?
Hot ****, the newest episode is all kinds of brilliant. Fantastically done visuals and compelling writing and acting, and some enticing lore sprinkled throughout. I think it's as good as the Vader/Ahsoka episode (though very different from it in style and emotion).
Metushelah reacted to Donovan Morningfire in [Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.
So speaking as someone that's been playing and running games in this system pretty much since the EotE Beta came out (many of whom were Force users of one stripe or another), I'm taking a look at some of the Control upgrades in question in regards to "do I also need to activate the basic Force power?"
Battle Meditation - both of these are a yes, as each Control upgrade plays off the basic power in some way.
Bind - definite yes on the Column 4/Row 2 Control upgrade, as that says "whenever a target affected by Bind" in the first sentence. As for the Column 1/ Row 3, that one's iffy. It simply says "may immediately move the target" without outright saying that they have to affected by the Bind basic power. Possible this is an error, and hopefully Richardbuxton's question to the devs will help provide some clarity, but for my own games, I'd say that to qualify as "a target" that you'd need to trigger Bind's basic power as well, but given the costs to get to that upgrade (both to get FR2 and the upgrade itself) I don't think it would be game breaking to allow the user to simply move the target and not use any other part of the Bind power. But if all you're looking to do is move people about, then the Move power is better option, being less expensive in terms of XP while offering more versatility in terms of which direction the target gets moved.
Enhance - Nope on all counts. Each Control Upgrade simply adds a new way to spend Force points, all of which do not require the basic power (enhancing Athletics checks) to be triggered, especially since a PC can only make one skill check per round as their action. Force leap doesn't have a skill check, but that it's an action lends support to the notion that those series of Control upgrades operate independently of the basic power.
Foresee - The Row 2 Control Upgrade is a nope, as it's effect (enhancing initiative checks) is again independent of the basic power. Column2/Row3 Control Upgrade is dependent upon the Row 2 Control Upgrade, but not the basic power. Row 4 Control Upgrade is a no on the basic power, but you do need to trigger the Row 2 Control Upgrade to get the benefit.
Heal/Harm - Column1/Row4 Control upgrade is a yes, since it modifies the basic power result. For the Column2/Row4 Control upgrade, the full text on page 293 is pretty clear that it's meant to work in conjunction with the basic power. Column4/Row2 upgrade, this one is also linked to the basic power, so you'd have to activate that in order to use this upgrade. Column4/Row3 upgrade, it's possible that you could use the Heal part independent of the basic power (and it's been argued that Ben did something like this for Luke in ANH), but the Harm part is definitely dependent on the basic power to function
Influence - again, neither of the Control upgrades is reliant upon using the basic power (inflicting strain) to function, as one enhances your social skill checks and the other is the classic Jedi mind trick.
Misdirect - the two Control upgrades in Column 4 are alternate effects of the basic power, changing what that part of Misdirect does, so you do need to activate the basic power to gain the benefit of those two Control upgrades. The Column 2 Control upgrade is a "commit Force die" effect, and thus independent of the basic power.
Move - Both Control upgrades key off the basic power for their effects, so you definitely need to activate the basic power in order to have either of these Control upgrades take effect.
Protect/Unleash - yeah, these all key off the basic power effect, so you need to activate that to get these to work.
Seek - The Column1/Row3 Control upgrade keys off the basic power, so again you need that to get this upgrade to trigger. The other two Control upgrades are "commit Force die" style effects, and again work independent of the basic power since you're not rolling Force dice.
Sense - both the Column 1 Control Upgrades are independent of the basic power, since they're "commit Force die effects." The Column 2 Control Upgrade is an alternate effect of the basic power, upgrading "read current emotional state" to "read current thoughts," but doesn't require a separate activation of the basic power, with this even being clarified by Sam way back in the early days of the system, with the source being (I think) one of the earliest Order 66 podcasts after Chris and Dave made the move from Saga Edition to this system.