sgtdeadman
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Posts posted by sgtdeadman
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18 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:Look at before the RSD.
Heres the ISD with 130 weapons.
AND heres the mother fing SSD with 5000.
Yes it may seem a bit less than you expect but it sets the scene for the technology.
Now comes along the RSD.... and now theres this stepping point which MAKES the SSD look underpowered. If the RSD had lets say 500 or 600 weapons it becomes a case "OMG this thing is double the size and so much more powerful, but still has nothing on the SSD"
130 weapons systems not individual weapons. There are 60 turbolasers batteries on an ISD a battery would have more than a singular turbolaser. Hence the 240-480 estimate the ISD is vastly more powerful than the SSD if you scaled it up to a relative size.
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1 hour ago, DrakonLord said:I.e. heres an analogy
We discovered and made "bread" before we made cake.
But im not going to say "compared to the cake we havent discovered yet this bread is dull and unappealing"
The bread came first so its the benchmark.
Same way im thinking here.
First came the ISD.
Then came the SSD, which was a huge difference in both size and weapondry so it made sense.
Then came the RSD, which is smaller than the SSD by 16km, yet it has nearly 1/3rd the amount of guns?
Yeah, no.
Does the RSD look good? For me yes. Does its weapondry make sense? Hella no.
But for me it’s the SSD that’s the odd one out. As stated earlier an ISD has between 240-480 weapons for a ship that’s 1/12 of the length of an SSD and whatever fraction as wide and tall.
I agree with you that the RSD be compared to the SSD and not the other way around as it did, as you said come first but to me it’s the weapons of SSD that seem ludicrously low considering the weapons of an ISD and then the RSD just reinforces that.
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37 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:Since the new canon information with the executors length and armament was not new information to the designers of the RSD, for me personally they screwed up badly and made the RSD too powerful.
But thats my opinion
I would argue the opposite as the Executor is 19km long and only has 5000 turbolasers, ion cannons, PD batteries. If you laid all the weapons out on the SSD in a single line (not caring about width or height of the SSD atm) it would only be a cannon per 4 metres. Then you have to spread that across the width and height and amongst the city scape. Not really many weapons at all across such a monster of a ship.
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Could be mistaken but I believed that the everyday RSD had standard turbolasers with some exceptions like the Finalizer being upgraded with kyber crystal powered turbolasers because the First Order had too much of a shortage of kyber crystals to upgrade every RSD.
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10 hours ago, Rimsen said:I will never understand why people need another Large Imp ship. We have the ISD, end of story. I would rather see more refits, than an unnecessery addition just to even the numbers. ISDs were jack of all trades. They were the backbone of every Imperial fleet.
It's more than enough (Thematically)
I suppose for me, thematically I would like a Venator SD so I can base a fleet on an earlier Imperial fleet before ISDs became so widespread. It would just be purely for narrative, wouldn’t actually need it in terms of playing.
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11 hours ago, RogueCorona said:Unlikely. Nothing says that and while we don't know the stats for the standard model the Nebulon-C medical conversion no less was very well armed for its size and role.
But the Nebulon C and bunker buster are smaller ships than the Raddus. The Raddus and ships of a higher tonnage than say a MC80 probably had their weapons systems limited so no one faction in galaxy could just simply overpower another.
A standard MC85 is likely to have at least 10x the firepower stated for the Raddus but the New Republic Senate would hardly allow such a powerful ship to be owned by another faction without limiting its potential damage output.
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5 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:Additonally, if you look at the Raddus, it's woefully under gunned. I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that the New Republic wouldn't let a Leia or a paramilitary group buy the former flagship of the navy without ripping out most of the armament. They kind of did the same thing to the Errant Venture in the old EU lore.
Exactly. I reckon that galaxy wide the New Republic enforces a reduction in weapon systems on capital ships of say 90% which explains why the Raddus was undergunned for its tonnage. It was stripped of its weapons when it was decommissioned from New Republic service and probably had said me weapons removed before that.
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7 hours ago, Nostromoid said:I take all numbers quoted in Star Wars with a parsec of salt. The source for those light armaments is the "Incredible Cross Sections Book," and that book's source was... its own butt I guess. Star Wars lore can't even quite agree on the size of the Executor. All it takes is another source to claim a different number of guns on those ships and we're back into a gray area. For now, I'd say FFG could safely give those ships whatever stats they want, as long as they're balanced and "feel" right intuitively for the ship's look and size. It's not like they ever promised that there was a hard ratio of guns to dice.
With the low amount of weapons on Resistance and New Republic ships, I always assumed that it was down to the Military disarmament act after the GCW. Would make sense that any ships under imperial/republic/other control had limited firepower by law so that they couldn’t be used to overpower others like the empire did.
The First Order obviously ignores this and just did as they **** well pleased.
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Whilst there will most likely be new ships for the New Republic/ Resistance (hopefully starhawks) and a load of new ships. We already know that the Resistance still used the Home One and another MC80 star Cruiser (I forget the name of it) so I'm hoping we see our beloved Admiral still at the helm of the flagship of the Alliance.
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I think in terms of how badly the rebels get hit in the finale we're looking at them losing chopper base, Sato, the quasar (its their flagship so its going to be Thrawns primary target), The Nebulon B that takes a hammering in the mid season trailer, the GR-75 seen crashing and maybe a CR-90. These along with some rebel troopers and almost the entirety of their Awings (as per usual) will leave this as a defeat for the rebels, from what we see the Imps lose, what? An interdictor, a couple of ISDs take a battering from ywings and plenty of TIEs. Acceptable losses for Thrawn in return for taking out such a large portion of the rebels although he will consider it a failure for not taking out everyone in one blow.
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Spoilers from the Rogue One Novel ahead!
I haven't seen the film in its entirety, just snippets on youtube unfortunately, but according to the rogue one novel that I just finished reading Green squadron was present for the battle of Scarif. Now it seems they weren't included in the film but going by the novel thats an extra 4 stands of fighters for the rebellion given a squadron is 12 fighters.
Also another thing that stood out to me in the battle in the novel is that a rebel freighter being chased by TIEs was scraping the Scarif Planteary shield and ripping its hull apart. As there seems to be only one Freighter, the Ghost, could it be that the Ghost met its end above Scarif or are there more Freighters than were described in the novel, I see the GR-75s as transports rather than freighters but I suppose it could be one of them.
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Acclamator class assault ship - Imp/Republic
Recusant class destroyer - Separatist
Starhawk Mark 1 - New Republic
Resurgent class battle cruiser - First Order
Nebulon K Frigate - First order
Praetor class battle cruiser - Imp
DrakonLord reacted to this -
X-Wing is a kind of precedent for this with Resistance ships working for the Rebellion, and First Order ships working for the Empire. I don't think they'll be hard-coded strictly different factions, but it would be interesting to bisect the sides into four distinct factions for some tournament formats. We'll need a lot more ships for it though... I wonder if X-Wing will do something like that.
Ep 8's release might be a better time to ask when First Order and Resistance craft will make a debut. There are no Resistance ships to field against the Resurgent, which is the only fighting capital ship we know of in that time period. The Rebels don't even have the Tantive to fall back on, unless you really wanted to press Solo's old freighter into the Rebellion.
The resistance has Home One and another MC80 of unknown type called Echo of Hope that have been refitted to serve as Resistance ships. The First Order also has the Nebulon-K frigate but we don't know what it looks like and the freighter that Han and Chewie used may be used by the First Order as Finn identifies it as the First Order when they are caught by it. Along with the resistance transport and new xwings as well as the transports, shuttles and new ties for the first order there's enough to start making their factions.
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What I would love to see most would be the lancer frigate. We've been calling for it since the game released. I wouldn't mind a new ISD I model either. I would also love to see a package or two of more ship titles.
It will never happen.
First off, there's already a Lancer in the game. It's a squadron now.
Second, the original artwork for the Lancer is frankly not very good. It looks very generic, and even has the ignoble distinction of looking, shall we say, rather phallic in profile.
And of course there's the fact that the Raider already exists and looks far more appropriate for the existing universe and does the same thing.
Basically, the Lancer frigate will never happen. In fact, it has probably been explicitly scrapped by Disney. They'll create new ships that are easier to copyright and feel more like Star Wars.
The Lancer gets a brief appearance at a space station in the Tarkin Novel after the Disney Retcon so technically is canon and available for use. Personally appearance-wise I would prefer the lancer to the raider.
cynanbloodbane reacted to this -
Long post time.
Rebel/ Resistance:
MC75
Hammerhead corvette
DP20
Sheathipede shuttle
Providence class Carrier/ Destroyer
Munificent Star Frigate
Recusant Class Destroyer
Lucrehulk class Battleship
Vulture Droids
Hyena Droid Bombers
Droid Gunships
Droid Tri-fighters
Hardcell Shuttles
Assault Frigate Mk I
Interceptor IV Frigate
LAAT gunship
Imperial/ First Order:
Executor class Star Dreadnaught
Lancer class Frigate
Carrack Cruiser
Venator class Star Destroyer
Acclamator class Assault Ship
Resurgent class Star Destroyer
Bellator class Star Destroyer
Tector class Star Destroyer
Secutor Class Star Destroyer
Nebulon K Frigate
Both
Quasar Class Carrier
ARC 170 Starfighters
Protectorate Starfighters
Dreadnaught class Heavy cruiser
Gozanti class cruiser (Scum variant)
Possibility of scum/ republic/ CIS factions?
I know some of these have been mentioned already but its just my two cents (or thousands of pounds
) arctica2010 reacted to this -
According to the wiki the Resistance uses old refitted MC80s including Home One so technically we already have some Resistance ships. Also the Resurgent class star Destroyer is only 600m longer than an ISD which is 40% larger not twice the size.
ISD: 1600m
Resurgent: 2916m (to nearest m)
Not twice the length - but pretty close
Ah my mistake, last I looked (a long time ago) the wiki quoted it as 2200m rather than 2900m ish. Even so with a sliding scale it only need to be a few inches longer to give the impression of a larger ship. It will still dwarf MC80s which are the only known Resistance capital ships.
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According to the wiki the Resistance uses old refitted MC80s including Home One so technically we already have some Resistance ships. Also the Resurgent class star Destroyer is only 600m longer than an ISD which is 40% larger not twice the size. Considering FFGs sliding scale I don't think its too much of a stretch to make a Resurgent class Star Destroyer.
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I'd like to see a Providence for the rebels as it would be a good early warship for the separatist holdouts (which did exist) and other rebel group (like Berch Teller) could use.
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The CIS ships would make great additions to any rebellion fleet. In legends they used Lucrehulks, Providences and Recusant destroyers. For medium ships though I think that firepower wise the recusant would be the better but for a ship that has more tactical usage the Munificent comes out on top for the reasons that you already listed. It also favours forward firepower.
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I believe it was in the novel Tarkin (I could be wrong) an imperial space station was mentioned having a venator and two victories docked at it. I think the Venator is able to be used at any point really until the height of the Galactic civil war. They were mainly scrapped but some were used in private defense fleets, sold off or relocated to more remote and lee important imperial outposts. So either way they can be used by both Imperials and rebels.
The Acclamator in the EU was used as a slave transport ship so very much still an active pat of the empire if not as a warship.
The munificent and recusant CIS ships would be the most easily available to the early rebellion as they were a more common CIS ship
The lucrehulks would be very far and few between but it is mentioned that some were used in training exercises for imperial pilots and the rebels got their hands on one in the EU. Others would probably be converted back into large freighters and sold off.
The Providence also wouldn't be common but the rebels did manage to get one called Rebel One (how original).
My point being that such ships could still be found at any point between ROTS and ANH. Junkyards like Raxus Prime had hundreds of old ships left in orbit and on its surface so who's to say that among the many junkyards throughout the galaxy a few ships couldn't be repaired and reused.
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Anytime we get new ships it's all-good to me. If they want to give us separatist and clone ships that would be great, but don't expect anything mind blowing. I used to play WW2 ship miniatures, and every once in a while someone would set up scenarios that came out at the end of WW1. They were ok on the battle, but not a real force to be reckoned with.
Look at the HMS Prince of Wales. It was the original, definitive battle cruiser or fast battleship. At the end of world war one it was the power at sea in the Atlantic. It the time between WW1 and WW2 a simple technological change, the trajectory of shells fired at longer ranges, meant that Prince of Wales had only wooden decks to protect it's magazines from the plunging fire that longer ranges created.
This is the most famous example, but it's what a gamer should expect when older tech is faced off against cutting edge. I hope we get some clone wars ships, but I'm not expecting them to be any real powerhouses. Even upgrading the tech of ships won't make them the equivalent of there modern counterparts
I agree with everything you say. However, remember that the tech of star wars is supposed to have been essentially unchanged for untold years. Supposedly there's little difference between blasters, starfighters or capital ships from a hundred years old up to the most modern designs. Does it make sense? Nope
I was under the impression that Civil war era tech was better, turbolasers did more damage and shields were stronger etc. Take the venator for example. It would be completely outclassed by an ISD or even a victory mark 2 in terms of firepower, armour and shields. The only way the venator really made up for the lack of these was its starfigther capacity.
But in terms of in game I think that te Clone wars era ships would be less bang fo less buck really. They might cause and take less damage but they would also be cheaper to field. And a Venator would make a nice early imperial Carrier
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VSD was participating in the final year of the Clone Wars and ISD was introduced on almost the day followed the end of the war.
I was under the impression that (at least in Legends) ISDs and Tectors were both introduced shortly before the war ended - at least, that was how The Essential Guide To Warfare portrayed it.
I may be mistaken here, I did not check up the chronology. But if I remember correctly the ISD class was named IMPERIAL to celebrate the foundation of the Empire. It is possible though that the prototypes were out earlier. The sources are slightly sketchy about it. Also let's not forget that between the "birth" of the ship and its release from drydock there is a ~1 year time. Maybe several of the ISDs were under construction and therefor counted as existing before the end of the war but they left drydock the first time only after the CIS capitulation.
ISD was originally the Imperator-class SD and was introduced as a flagship to a few fleets a couple of months before the end of the clone wars. The VSD was in out into service about 6 months into the clone wars I believe. The Imperator was renamed the Imperial class star destroyer immediately after the rise of the Empire.
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Current list of ships used by the First Order and Resistance navies
in Star Wars: Armada
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Yes I stated that it was 130 weapon systems which is correct because all of them will be fire linked batteries. The difference is that one source states 60 turbolaser batteries for an ISD, implying multiple turbolasers per battery as where an SSD and RSD are cited as just having 5000 and 1500+ turbolasers/ ion cannons etc. as in 5000 singular weapons meaning that the ISD by comparison has a higher amount of weapons than an SSD and about equal to an RSD if you scaled the ISD up to its counterparts sizes.