That's ridiculous. You have all the upgrades to make Demo work as AA, all of them you are taking anyway. The choice comes down to +6 points, swap 1 dice + another and target selection. Upgrade to a GSD II, Demo Intel Off, OE, APT. You are still a terror to ships and now you are statisticlly almost par with the statisticlly deadliest point defense (Rdr1 w/ OE) And I have tested the GSD II in actual games. Winner of one store champs and runner up of another using the GSD II in the exact setup I described to compliment AA for a Fireball or win the mirror. There is nothing counter-synergestic about a GSD II shooting squadrons. It's completetly asinine to write something off you clearly havn't tested, in a thread about a different topic (but no worries because discussion is a rabbit hole and welcome) doubly so by comparing it to a janky combo. Why not use anti squadron squadrons? Was that part of the initial question? No. Of course taking squadrons to counter squadrons is the obvious choice.

I have faced it, it's brutal (if you lack evades!). Actually talking about it in the next podcast which we just recorded. Suppression refit has a good chance of hitting OP natural, you also have easy double arcs with the yaw or Screed. G8s to hold in place (he was Konstantine). My flagship ISD got hit twice by the combo (and stuck on an asteroid from G-8!) but fortunately my Avenger was cleaning his Indic/Avenger up whilst mine was going down fighting. If you are running ISDs I would strongly consider Needa if it starts up in your area or Targeting Scrambler so you might be a little safer in face punching range. I have also tried SW-7 on Interdictor and that performed as well. Flanking it was not viable.

For an Imp ship unsupported these would be?

Scenario: A Raider I with Ordnance Expert is shooting at 6 squadrons. Throws 12 black dice with the potential to reroll both. What is the expected damage or average? A GSD II with Demolisher shoots at 6 squadrons for 12 blue dice. It then moves with Demolisher and fires another 12 blue dice. What is the expected damage or average? Cheers.

I think there is pretty good chance of Ackbar seeing a spike in popularity, especially where a counter Imp/Indic list makes sense. I'm an Imp main but I keep having the stark thought that Ackbar could wreck the Indic lists I'm seeing and playing. Funny game happened that I saw, an Indic held a ship on an Asteroid for 2 turns with G8. Ship is so fun.

Task Force Orange. Our mortal frenemys! When you know they are rolling in I'm packing at home like... Hehe...yeah, I'll work on that, some tags or something by the next one... we couldn't agree on a Starwars themed named. I was personally leaning towards "No Such Thing". There were some good ones but no consensus.

Agreed!... I don't really care to listen through a browser, or downloading an app Yes there is! Apologies ...completely neglected this rather important feature. Currently uploading to Podbean and ITunes is being verifited. I will be migrating hosting to Podbean. Soundcloud has left me wanting. I will edit this space when it's ready, which should be soon! -edit- It's up! Bang: http://pawarmada.podbean.com/ Forgive the leftover art work...i'm editing it now

Ha well it could take more abuse than most but I agree, nothing lives forever! Twas ECM/Eng Team sporting AP or Redundant Shield. For most lists it was commit to killing it or killing/dealing with the 4 other TRC90s if I remember correctly. It was a hard nut. And on the groups love for the MC80 Nicks 3 Regionals was taken down with MC80 Assault Cruiser, alongside 2 TRC90, Salvation/TRC/Vet Cap, Dash/Han ... we did like this underdog

Hey everyone Finally.....finally...finally...we are live. I would like to introduce the pilot podcast for PAW, The PAWCast. PAW or Parramatta Attack Wing is a group of Armada of 8 (or so) Star Wars Armada players based in Parramatta (Australia). We play at the The Games Cube. Some of has have played since day one, some joined later in the Waves. Ken (Irokenics) made PAW and helped to start build the Sydney/East Coast community. Between PAW we have a handful of regional titles and a half a dozen store champs. We are always keen for tournment play. We play to win but fly casual. We hope to see you in Aus or overseas! http://pawarmada.podbean.com/ (main hosting site now) https://pawarmada.wordpress.com/ (seconday blog for PAW news) https://soundcloud.com/user-567944166 (only host the first episode) We reminisce on Wave 2, where we started, what we learned and where we ended. Discussions on Wave 3 -Gozanti, Rebel Transport- and Wave 4 -Interdictor and Liberty- our initial impressions, play testing and what we think for the future. Not a full card spoiler...but most things are touched upon or mentioned! Intermingled throughout various playtests, ideas and discussion A long episode which was not able to cover all topics stated in the introduction…this will be for Epiosde 2! So I copy pasted a bit of that from wordpress because i've been going for more than a couple of hours now and I'm sleepy... There were and are a few technical issues...I had to almost completely chop a person (Dan) out of the final 1/3. This will show in one edit or two and why I was delayed in editing it. A few issues just related to mics...the obvious feedback from Ken only happens twice so bear with. I also want to develop my style a bit more...sorry if we repeat some beats or que ins, I was trying to get us to avoid speaking over the top of each other but we hesitated to speak sometimes. We will not repeat this mistake again! I hope you enjoy this and get ready for the next episode, hopefully within another month. Enjoy! PAWCast Episode 2: First Wave 4 Tourney, Corellian Conflict, Wave 5 and Everything Squadron Discussion

Is nobody going to address that almost everything the OP said is wrong? * The fighter pack was Rebel leaning? No it wasn't. Rebel fighters are outclassed in pretty much every area. Especially heroes. * The MC30 is not more diverse than "anything the Imps can throw at it". Certainlly not a Gladiator with the trimmings for a similar style ship. * The ISD both a better carrier and brawler. I fail to see a lack of diversity. Numerically the Rebels have "more" choice but Imps can build what they want. * Really? Easily? Besides Bright Hope they are equal in terms of sustainability. * Neither floatilla can make a big difference in battle as in "I explode stuff on my own". They both provide fleet support. That is their role. One does not do it better than the other. One is just a tad bit cheaper. * A GOZ can hang back and provide the exact same amount of goodies to the fleet that a GR does...GOZ however make better Boosted Comms Carriers due to Tarkin/Token Officers. The only missing piece would be a Leia style effect. But instead you can put Issard, Titus on a Goz for other kinds of information/effects, so they are hardly lacking. *Maybe it falls short as a warhship because it isn't a warship and wasn't meant to be...you can't compare apples to oranges * A Raider front arc (which you trashed) is "too much punch" for a small ship? So what is it then? To much or to little? * Sato seems like the best Admiral in the game to people who buy into hype and don't fully think their combos through. Two dice of any colour?! Crazy?! Yeah, but it's not just that is it. He is the most conditional Admiral in the game and the most expensive. At minimum for him to work, on just one ship, it will cost you 42 points, 52 for two, 62 for three...you can also loose the ability to use his ability when he is still on the board * Yeah not really worth to buy I agree. Not like i should wait for more information or anything Despite so called Imp dominance Rebel players have taken down large events and many regionals. To my knowledge some rebel data (from aus) was not added to Regional Data, did i read Canadian wasn't as well? Mon Karen, Interdictor, Floats with Beans/Tools will change the Imperial Demo meta. That is the most important thing. It will open up a lot of play. Who fills the void is entirely uncertain.

Ouch... But to me that Fleet Ambush looks setup wrong? (i think it's meant to be 5 in from setup zone not edge, we setup more towards the middle of the board)

Do not try and bend the meta. That's impossible. Only try to realise the truth. There is no meta. Seriously. I stick to concepts due to completely random matchups. The last 5 lists I played were all different. Cracken bomber, Madine MC80 AS/MC80 BC, Tarkin VSD/VSD/Interdictor/Goz/Goz, Dodona MC80 Command, Liberty, Neb, Floatilla, Bombers and not a Demolisher in sight...it's crazy! I) initiative/activations, is first or second preferable. * What objectives help me if I lose the choice whilst trying to deny the widest range of "concepts" (Rhymer, Large Ships w/ Xi7, MSU) picking a favourable objective of mine for their own use * What is the activation order for both first or second, is it better to pick first or second? II) Identify and exploit strengths, how to mitage weakness * They are Bomber, I am all ship, I need to kill their carrier ASAP and try to split their bomber force. If I do more engeering commands than usual I can repair the bomber damage and (try) kill the carrier before they kill me etc... This leads us to... III) Final Risk Assessment * What are the pros/cons of the plan? * Expected outcome of plan? (damage averages, defenses, expected responses to these) * Outcome of failure? * A safer alternative? * Make new plan or execute? The risk assessment doesn't need to be on marco level either, you can use this for simple target selection I had a very informative game vs Madine Mon Karen. I had the choice to try to engage MK or fly at three other small ships across the board. I knew it would not kill me if I failed to block, and i did fail to block it, but i failed to take into account that I would not score any points if we flew past each other due to nothing being on the board to shoot! Experience helps make more informed decisions in uncertain terrain. Yes there will always be a place for a 'meta call' as someone from our own playgroup turned up with 4 Bwing 4 Scurgg because he knew the squadron players were testing all ship/Tie screen only (in my culture we call this a **** move)...but outside of narrow hate picks I see no meta.

Now we are on the topic I would like to point out a narrow but flavoursome use for G7... Anti hyperspace assault tech. If they come out of hyperspace and land in G7 their speed is 0. You could also hit youself if not careful.

Wow. So this is good and working well! Tagge = Better than Motti for ECM backed ISD II. Much better. Way better. Unquestionably better. What Worked * Got Brace back from Intel Officer/Mon Karen, Nym, Double Bracing aggresively (on the right turn) * Lost one ISD before turn 6. The other died final activation turn 6. Very tanky, sets out to do what it wants to do * Scatter on Floatilla aggressively to dodge fighters, gets it back with Tagge, return fire with point defence * Veteran Caps/Comms net is the engine behind the list. Comms Net is amazingly useful * Two Ties are way too good to cut. 16 point deployment and saved many a ship from Bomber death Changes? * Might cut Vet Caps from Goz. Found you can pass the token the turn you get it....or so everyone said. But Vet Cap let it pass a token and use its own command, which kept them alive many times ... it's a hard choice. Would add 1 tractor beam to ISD II or 1 Slicer tool *Or Intel Officer. Intel Officer would make each ship far more potent in it's own right. I would need to fly my Goz much tigher as the Vet Caps/tokens are pretty essential to the list. It would make mistakes more punishing and the list less responsive but it would also end fights quicker. Yep...just changed it for next play testing. http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=39922&key=6b979b0490ac895256dffbf331970372 The Games Played 5 games since Friday, won 3, lost 2, one loss down to 1 damage (my ISD II on 1 on turn 6 needs 6 damage to kill Mon Karen. Leading shots gets 5 with but 2 Blue Accuracy. He returns and gets a Double Red, 1 Red to pierce 1 shield and 1 hull despite brace). Friday Warmup Game 1) Cracken, Bomber List, my Dangerous Territroy, Win 10-0 Game 2) Tarkin, Interdictor, VSD, VSD, Goz, Goz, their Dangerous Territory, Win 7-3 Wave 4 First Tourney, old score structure Game 3) Madine, MC80 Assault, MC80 Battle Cruiser, Rebel Transport, my Fire Lanes Loss 2-8 Game 4) Dodona, Liberty, Redemption, Rebel Transport, MC80, win 7-3 or 8-2, their Fire Lanes Game 5) Madine, Mon Karen, TRC90, Bright Hope, Salvation, loss 4-6 or 3-7, my Dangerous Territory

For Bombers. Make sure your Rhymer ball is 134 points, has 7-8 Bomber dice that it can shoot off each round without question, choose efficient anti squadron and preferably minimise/eliminate Blue battery dice (mauler is one exception) and opt for Black battery dice. Bombers, Rhymer especially should chew this list apart, it is the counter. Especially if he worms about in a conga line. The amount of hull he has vs drip damage Bombers means you need to kill the guppies and avoid Home One or kill Home One. But this all depends on deployment, position and the amount of Bomber dice you have. I have never lost to this type Ackbar list, not when you can stay at Range 7 (boosted Comms/Rhymer) and hit them for 7 Bomber dice. Superior Positions, Contested Outpost, Assault depends on your carrier and if you take Firesprays.

I stopped running Tie Bombers because of the wiff factor, if I see a single face that would be enough.

This is disingenuous. A two ship Fireball with Demolisher deals damage and approaches any given matchip entirely differently from a high bidding for first, activation, I want to tripple tap you, DeMSU list. A DeMSU abouslety wants first to sing. It wouldn't be bold or wrong to say it is even required. Demo is perfectlly fine as second player but certain lists want it to go first. There is no tripple tap without first.

No. Not when a certain large ship shoots you from 5-6 red dice at long w/ Intel Officer, flys around you but ends up turning into you, shoots for 8-9 Xi7 backed dice and can only use one defense token. To paraphrase a fellow player, there is a new Demolisher and it ain't Imperial. And for the opposing faction with Experimental Retrofits/repair based projection fleets want a choice of first or second to play objectives with Grav Shift or see the match up to determine how to leverage their upgrades. Two expensive ships without ECM Brace will always consider wanting to act first.

Updated: Current List http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=42525&key=9df54c903da914b1b0d6db07feb62684 Updated: Old List 2 http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=39922&key=6b979b0490ac895256dffbf331970372 Old List w/l/d, 3/2/0 http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=35996&key=69bdd2f94150a8f9924ee45e434f458b (with ship cards) Faction: Galactic Empire Points: 400/400 Commander: General Tagge Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Fire Lanes Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory [ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - General Tagge ( 25 points) - Veteran Captain ( 3 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 172 total ship cost Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points) - Avenger ( 5 points) - Veteran Captain ( 3 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 152 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points) - Suppressor ( 4 points) - Veteran Captain ( 3 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 32 total ship cost Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points) - Veteran Captain ( 3 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 28 total ship cost 2 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 16 points) Hypothesis Trying to build a repair fleet puts you at the mercy of matchup and initivative. Tagge is also good as Second Player (on certain turns) due to his effect occuring at the Start of Turn rather than a Repair Command. I hear ISD IIs with Xi7 are good as First. A Repairing Fleet without ECM is not a good plan as you have less control over what you can Brace. Tagge, over time, will mitage more damage than Motti provides in extra hull and what a dedicated repair spam/Tarkin can fix when combined with ECM and early aggression. Mass Vet Caps for extra control over Nav, Repair sub theme, soft Slicer Tools counter To all ship or not all ship...i do like the extra deployment (2 Ties) and I feel so naked without... Play Test I've played a couple of Wave 4 games with 2Goz 2ISD Ozzel but now i'm changing to Tagge! Due to oIntel Officer/Mon Karren, fat batteries, accuracies and Turbo Lasers, Brace Tokens are dropping like flies so Tagge is in. Watch this space! Got friday night games tommorrow and so far playing against three people before a tourney on Saturday. This will be a massive baptism of fire as i'm sticking to some verison of 2Goz 2ISD because I love it. Feel free to kick some ideas around.

So was just checking in and lol turns out 500 points and 12 obstacles? Around which the game was not designed? Why has this been bumped so far along?

Spreaking from Imp you have lots of options. * Glad II/Demolisher * Raider w/ Instigator & Ties or Imeptuous (I prefer Instigator) * Gunnery Teams (preferablly on ISD II) * H9 + Warlord * Mauler/Darth Vader/Ties w/ Howlrunner/Bossk/IG88, most Imp heroes are pretty devestating vs squadrons * Flight Controllers always with a dedicated squadron force

And with added Relay for pseudo Boosted Comms

Ozzel is your friend! And i'm not joking. If you are in an Imp meta play Ozzel with ISD/ISDs. Or Tarkin for the Nav token as well as tokens/liasons soft/hard counter to slicer tools.

Defensive and Retro should be split. Boosted Comms is far to impactful to throw in with a different category. Disagree with Jan as best hero. Mauler would be above her but picking no.1 is pretty hard when they are so good. Instigator should be mentioned!

I play Ozzel. Konstantine did/does nothing. Apart from the staight up hard counter i don't care for double Indic lists. If you want to spend 220 ish points for a split of 4 red dice front battery be my guest.