In addition to what's already been said, I think it's worth pointing out that one of the other Experimental Retrofits that's partially obscured, but is called Targeting something, seems to affect close range attacks. It seems to say something along these lines ( Bold being what is readable, Italics being what I'm guessing at): While a friendly ship at distance 1-x is being attacked at close range, during the Spend Defence token step you may exhaust/discard this card to force your opponent to reroll something something you something something. Unfortunately the key effect of the card is the bit we can't see (predictably), but it certainly seems to be to do with defending against ships at close range. If it forces rerolls on Demolisher, that could be pretty handy. That's my filling in the blanks reading of it. For me the better use of this is forcing to ReRoll Accuracies (before Spend Defense) for ships without ECM ie: VSD. If you can attempt to reroll an accuracy targeting a brace you have some type of pseudo ECM attempt. Then the Interdector title will make 'Targeting -----' ready for the next activation. It's a redundancy for ECM ships as well, you would want to use it first. That way they save their actual ECM for a garuntee. Combine this with Tagge. Mmmm defense tokens and brace.

If by "burnt out" you mean rage monkeys that tried to drag the forum down with them, then i hope they stay gone. If by people who wanted and few more iconic toys to play with and weren't obnoxious then let's keep this celebration going! This Wave has some sex appeal. I mean look at those ships. Look at them! I've said it several times and will say it again the best aesthetics for either faction so far. This is a Wave that should drive sales and have a really wide appeal. Esspecially to those on the fence about Armada. When they see these toys they won't be able to resist. I have great hopes for Armada and this is the Wave to really cement it's place and appeal.

Also Interdictor appears to have Offensive Retro therefore it can carry Tractor Beams as well as G8. This makes focusing much for efficent with 2 procs on 1 ship. edit- it's just will end of manouver, my bad, still good though

I for the life of me cannot understand why people want the production level of Xwing. For the sake of balanace, cost, meta/counter meta play, stability, not a masssive entry barrier, keep up the current rate of production.

Grav Well and Fleet Ambush. That objective might be playable again. Also the upgrades are nuts, the aesthetics are gorgeous, personal favortie for each faction so far. Well played FFG.

Grav Well is pretty awsome. It slays with Yellow Objective. Maybe Fleet Ambush just got good again. They can no longer break out instantly but concevibly a couple of ships or more will be at speed 0 and will be forced to eat your first activation of Red dice or Demolisher (no defense tokens). If you deploy debris correctly and block off their side of the kill box, because they can't overlap debris during deployment, they should be in range. Grav Well improves Fire Lanes and especially Contested Outpost. Intel Sweep is much better makes stealing a token a bit harder. It doesn't do to much for Red Objectives but Red ones are usally the most punishing/point blowout anyway. G8 is also pretty good because it can go to 0. It makes Tractor Beam focusing more viable. Especially with Slicer Tools.

RIP Nelson Nice post Also this is, i think, the best looking ships so far for either faction. Well done FFG.

I've played your fly fast Vader list, I think Tagge lets you play a fast flying, hard striking fleet, very aggressively too! Tagge is pretty darn awsome for ISDs because loosing brace just destroys them. It looses this precious token to pretty much anything playable. TRC90, TRC90/Intel, Demolisher, other ISDS/large ships, Firesprays The most obvious is timed pushes. Against DeMSU for ISDs currently testing aggresively flying towards Demolisher to fight it on my terms so they don't choose when to jump in or they are forced to go. Aggressive naviation, Speed 3/Flanking/Yaw to get into position during turns 1-2 and focusing fire ships using superior token defense. On a ship with ECM you have a guaranteed brace on turn 2-3 facing an Intel Officer, Intel Officer crushes Large Ships. A better case Scenario is not getting hit by Intel Officer you might get up to 4 Braces. Add in Engineering Commands it seems pretty darn survivable. Put some Floatillas in and Scatter everything you can, they get theirs back too. They could also carry Repair Crews. Tagge might actually be the better ''Repair/Engineering Tank'' than Tarkin because he gives you back the best damage mitigation ability in the game (aka Brace Token). You can fit Tagge and Wulf on one ISD and it's still cheaper than Tarkin. I'm hoping that Tagge might bring back x2 ISD in a big way, especially with a couple of Floatilas activations/in tow. Something i wipped up that looks fun! http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=27266

If that combo worked the ISD could one shot anything in the game besides another ISD. Now that is boring.

* Most Wanted. Name the CR90, punish their Demolisher or name a big ship that you think you can kill over the course of the game. * Fire Lanes is good. Hyperspace Assault might work too given 4 ships, MC30, Salvation. You can force trades/moves if you play it well. * DT is fine. Intel Sweep could work well if Rieeken was not on the CR90. So DT it is. There are some Reeiken lists doing pretty well. Ask in the Regional Results to see how other people went. Can't find them.

The overall shape of the list is okay! And yes Demolisher quickly folds to bombers. Try not to be hyper aggressive with it. It is super effective but not very resilient for 90 points. Objectives: -Hyperspace Assault + Contested Outpost or Fire Lanes Hyperspace with 3 ships and no bombers isn't good. You will put Gladiator into Hyper Space now you have only two activations! Then you you rely on the Hyperspace tokens getting into position which is not garunteed. Hyperspace works well with Bombers/Medium Ships. It can also work well with Glad. But not with 3 ships. -Minefields + Dangerous Territory or Intel Sweep Minefields can go horribly wrong. If you mine them in they might just sit there and you take a draw. Only use minefields if you have thought long and hard about how you plan to use it and how to deploy it for certain matchups. Play DT first. It's not a blowout objective in terms of points but isnt bad and you start to get the feel for proper deployment of derbris. Intel Sweep is harder and risker to play correctly but has more points in it. +- Most Wanted is good. But would be better with a Raider I. The list im going with would require a cut to fit Gunnery Teams, if you change it back it would be good to revert to Most Wanted. Fleet: Unless you are a bomber list you will probally want to aim for 4 activations because 4-5 ship lists is about the average. http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=27028 * A small bid of 5. You will win a few bids against maxed out lists and can choose to go first or second according to the situation. For example: against a three ship bomber list go first, that way your Demolisher can get into a good position using activations. Against bid lists fall back onto strong objectives. * There was a rules change will Gunnery Team, you can't have it equipped and use Advanced Gunnery. Thus my version has no Gunnery Team. Use Demolisher + Avenger to combo a ship. It's a good exercise in focusing down one ship. Because one dead ship is better than two almost dead ships. * Precison Strike is a really good objective with Screed and Assault Proton Torpedos. The problem is lots of players will happily pick this if they are first player! If you take Most Wanted name the Raider that will be less aggressive! * Use the Raiders/Instigator/Ties to pin down and fire that bomber list. You will do more damage as first player because the Raiders can shoot before they die at the start of a new turn but Insitgator and Ties and distract the bombers a couple of turns.

I really like the way Alt Art cards have been done on a few choice upgrades. Leading Shots and Xi7 feel close to staple cards or at least cards you would buy (and probally have ) one ship to get the card. I think a good choice would be Flight Controllers. It comes in the somewhat still expensive VSD expansion, despite being released a while ago. It's great for either faction and given the prior alt art cards were faction and ship specific Flight Controllers fits the bill. It is also somewhat collectible because unless you bought heavily into Wave 1/Imperial it's not a card you probably have multiples of. Given Floatila carriers, the prevelence of squadrons and still emgering archtypes (Reeiken heroes etc) this all points squadrons having a place now and in the future. I find it is the most sought after loan card because once the meta shifts to squadrons lots of people want this. Cheers.

Token & dial

You can. However there is a risk involved. Once you spend that dial you have to declare the token at the same time. Once that token is spent, even if the reroll is not used, it is lost. The only wait and see token in the game is the Evade token. It is such because it occurs immediately on use while the other defense tokens happen later. Great! That's how we went with it, albeit after the fact.Somebody in our group spent two at once, on a gamble, was told he could not. Spat ensured until he said **** it I wont.

" ref tokens with a CF dial can not be done." Okay so this came up recently for us. You can't spend a CF token and dial at the same time? Are they not spent at the same time durning a one shot, like any other token/dial combo, therefore it is one command of one type?

You could have very easily argued this. Screed is not a reroll. If the quote/recollection is correct he unilaterally eneded the action (before you had even finished the physical action), using a filsmy pretense, to gain a favourable result. It he sounds like he knows exactly what he was doing. SO if all of that is correct **** him, his kind and if you sir are reading this thread **** you, **** cheesers ruining the fun. My area, way to many instances of it. Also do what the opponent does. If they do backsies, you do backsies. If they argue about it point out their own backsies. However don't use this as a rule because they might call a judge and it will probablly go in their favor if what you are doing is not correct (even if they were doing it) Never allow yourself to be pressured by an opponent. I simply say "Wait". The game cannot progress from here until you a) talk it out b) call a TO/Judge. Most importantly aim to play correctly all the time and tell the opponent to do likewise. It avoids trouble in the first place. Also tell people about this player or ask about him. Not to gossip but other players should know if they are going to play against a powergaming cheeser. You will also find out if it is consistent behavior on their part.

Don't know about Rebel but i'm loving it as Imp! Vader Assault Floatilas: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=26400. Objective punishment, or cut the third floatila and have a bid! Avenger/Suppressor might be nice! Drive at speed, use CF on the Floatillas for 2 red and reroll with Vader. Lots of variatons of Tarkin bomber lists. Boosted Comms Floatilas for 3 Squadron are nice... Overall i really like how Floatilas improve the chances of the ISD activating at a time of its choosing.

This so much. I'm way more comfortable with Vader now as I can go second and have more red dice, compare to say Raiders as second. I have x2 Assaults in a current build. What I like is these can push the fighter screen around leaving the ISD to be more effective in its own right. The big opportunity cost for me is Flight Controllers. This so much. This is why VSDS are still a valid choice. An ISD bomber list could conceivably drop a VSD because they carry FC and want activations but VSD bomber lists remain the best Flight Controllers platform. Adding that extra dice to IG, Vader, Swarm ships is strong.

Let's compare apples to oranges and see what's best! Though...I feel for squadron play Tarkin giving you +3 and Boosted Comms is fantastic because Boosted Comms suits floatilas.

Keep your chin up Lyraues for I have a tale of how a first time miniture player gits gud from loosing most of the time! I know two things to be true in miniture gaming. A loss can be more valuable than a win and we only improve through learning from losses. I started playing 6 months before Wave 2 and I ******* sucked. I had never played minis before. I can't find the 2015 sheet but my inital results were something like 12th-10th-6th-7th. The only prizes I won was the lucky door prize, wooden spoon and most sportsman like.... Then i started going to Tuesday nights every time. Then weekends, week days, work days and peoples houses on weeknights. I sought out the best players in the area, never saying no to a game...and i still got my ass handed to me. I was not winning even casual games. But i was making friends with the most inclusive, welcoming and consistently top placing group in the region. Then Wave 2 happens. Wave 1 is over and i never had a win! But now i know what i want to play and most importantly I know it know how to play and now my results are starting to go up...the start of 2016 goes 6th-3rd-2nd. I'm feeling pretty good. In practice play I'm undefeated with my list. My buddies are telling me it's my time, time for that first win. Then I change it up. The Gladiator I ran was the Demo/Intel/Expert/Apt/Tech. But during the Newcastle Store Champs (where i came second ) I played an opponent running Glad II/Demo/Ruthless Start/APT...it shredded my Rhymer Ball! I like that ship. I think I will copy it. I play against my friends. It killed 5 tie Advances in one Activation. That's awsome I think im onto something here! With my wins behind me and encourgment from friends I approached the next tournment with the mentality not that i would win but that i could win. My next Tournment Results were 5th-7th. ****. I was spanked for two days straight where my friends were egging me on. If I was ever going to rage quit Armada, this was it. Overcoming this rage or dissapointment is critical to rebounding to a win. This two day beatdown is where the idea that loosing has more lessons than winning solidified in my mind. Winning against the Tie Advance screen masked the weakness of the list. Using Gladiator as a Squadron shredder meant that I lost much firepower against ships. By looking to gain advantage out of Ruthless I also put Glad in bad positions. Playing Squadron centric people in practice had given me a completely bias view as to how effective this Glad II setup was against a wider selection of lists. I could not/would not (or at least it would be incredibly difficult) see anything of these issues if not for the looses. But no amount of reflection can help your feelings. By this point I was tired. The 2nd place and subsquent losses really took the wind out of my sails. Next tournment i played a jank list to try out HTT (they suck) and my place was no better (6th). I had a break. And that's okay. I have played a bucket load of tournments and my ranks was improving but I really just needed to consolidate what i had learnt. I went back to my list and redesigned it keeping in mind everything that had causes losses/wins: * Glad II/Demo is so strong vs squadrons it is justified to run it. But it also needs to kill ships. * Don't fly the Glad recklessly or put it in bad positions (this had cost me 92 points in far to many games) * Meta wise the bids are getting to high for me to play for a bid/squadrons at the same time. I need to go to 400 points and play second player. * But I had always bid for first! I need practice going second. This was the final list i came up with. What I shall now call the "Keep Your Head Up Special!" http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=25963 My last Tournment Results was 3rd Winter Kit andddd 1st in the 3D6 Store Champs. Yippe! It took me getting my arse beat down for 6 months straight to start posting results and another 4 months of this year to win. What does all this mean? Beyond a list the most important aspect of winning was all of the looses I had had over various months which taught me what worked and what didn't. This list started as an ISD I/Expanded Hanger Bat/Boosted Comms/Wulf/Gunnery Teams/Xi7, 6 Tie Fighters, 1 Rhymer 5 Tiebombers. It has gone through some changes to say the least. So when I take a loss I cool off and calmly consider i) how did they win? ii) how did i loose? iii) where do i go from here? Because i know from experience that loosing has more valuble lessons than winning.

Oh ****....Turbolasers fired

Does the percentage of Rebels top placing compare well to the lower Rebel player count?

Vader is highly effective. That is if you don't use him to body block Xwings or Ties all the time. Why is Vader so good? Because Crits count as damage. This is huge. -His Black Dice is essentially a Bomber damage (ie: 2), just without a Crit -Blue Dice crits destroy squadrons. Add in Flight Controllers you have 4 Blue 1 Black, all crits count as damage. I have one shot X-wings more than a couple of times. He does massive damage -He has good counter combined with Punishing One because of this crit potential -All of this is to say he does extremely consistent damage. To use escort effectively i let my bombers absorb some damage (depening on initivate/their build) then Vader will come, shoot the attacking squadrons now he will protect the weakened ones with escort (forcing them to change focus). You want avoid gettting no trade out of a 21 point bullet magnet, unless their anti squadron is heavily invested in (eg: Flight Controller/Howl Runner/Tie level of anti fighter). Then you might want to consider what is important. Saving bombers (which is your main source of firepower) or saving Vader. The squadron sub game is knowing when to sacrfice a particular unit and when to activate/command/move them. Another aspect which is good is having Black Dice non Bombers. If you should do this 100% of the time all of the time. My one expection is Mauler.

There is no such thing as to many squadrons. There is such a thing as not enough Squadron Commands. To be efficient with Bombers/Squadrons you must be able to activate all of them via squadron command/rouge moves per turn. This is my rule as "that Rhymer Ball guy". For example. My Victory has Squadron 4 (Squadron 3 + a Token). I have 8 Squadrons. 4 are Rouge 4 are not. This allows me to get use out of every squadron per turn. 1) Where is your Rhymer? There is no reason not to include him? 2) Are you running Flight Controlllers? I would do that. 3) You're anti Squadron setup is weak, i suggest combinations of/or including Vader/Mauler/Ties 4) Cut all Liasons, pay for most of Rhymer. You should be doing squadron commands most of the game (if not all of it).

First off lets not do anything too hasty... It's either ban it or not. It is a rule bending card, move & shoot, no half measure is going to effect it. * Increase the cost? Several problems. How high is reasonable, bids will adjust and if an upgrade is valued at more than 50% of the ships value it points to how broken it is (i don't think it is) * Speed adjustments will be minor hinderances at best * The cloest you come is "Can move and attack but cannot attack, move, then attack". This would be a nerf but would not stop the dreaded tripple tap. It would also mean that second player Demolisher is way less appealing. Pretty much making this a 1st player Bid upgrade. Ultimately the hype is to much (X amount of clon threads, X amount of Demo threads) considering the meta is still in flux (bids getting higher and higher, list being made have to consider facing higher bid actiavtions), regionals now and nationals soon after. This will allow a lot of quality games to be played. Eventually Worlds. And Wave 3 spoilers ahead. I remember last Worlds. The dominate Demolisher GenCon List, the unstoppable, activation, bid list. How did that go in the end? Lost to naked Gups/CR90 and 8 A Wings. I think people need to chill and calm down the hype.