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JediPartisan

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Posts posted by JediPartisan


  1. 46 minutes ago, Jon_DDA said:

    I've already stated I agree that it's probably not RAI, but VERY much so appears to be RAW.

    Do you have any proof of this "There is no intent to allow clones to fire while engaged. . ." from the developers? Any stream to reference? I've submitted a rules question to the FAQ already, I suppose that's sufficient for now. Really just trying to get a feel for how other people are seeing this RAW

    There is no proof that that is explicitly what the developers thought. There are a few interviews where Alex Davy (head developer) has mentioned that the Republic faction would not be viable without Fire Support or token sharing (can’t remember which, sorry - try the Clone Wars YouTube vid where Alex and Luke play with the new faction. Alex May have mentioned the Republic faction’s weakness in there, but there were others too), the not being able to fire while engaged is just connecting the pieces as I mentioned. Most games have this kind of a problem, where rules can be interpreted multiple ways, the only thing you can do is go by what you think the intent was and if following the rules through that interpretation would end up breaking them. As I mentioned Clones would be kinda broken firing out of melee, so I am 100% certain the intent was that they not be able to fire while engaged. If enough people are interpreting a rule other than what is intended, FFG unusually posts some kind of update or FAQ with updated instructions. This is the first I’ve heard of the Fire Support being interpreted to fire while Engaged, but I see where you’re coming from. Others no doubt discounted that interpretation because of the reasons I gave above (too broken). This will not be the first rule that can be interpreted multiple ways and won’t be the last. The only way to make sure things can’t be interpreted other than as intended is to use legal jargon and have the rules read as a contract and nobody wants that. As far as misinterpretation goes for rules FFG isn’t the worst offender I’ve seen and they do respond reasonably quickly (for a company). Hope this helps.


  2. 1 hour ago, Jon_DDA said:

    As I'm reading it, Fire Support shouldn't be allowed to happen EVER with Rules As Written. 

    Now I don't at all think that's Rules As Intended, but just trying to show how screwy the wording of the whole thing is. Just stay with me.

    -First and Second bullet of Fire Support (pg 39)
    "•During the “Form Attack Pool” step of a friendly unit’s ranged attack, each mini in a unit with the fire support keyword may contribute an eligible weapon to the attack pool if that mini has line of sight to any mini in the defending unit.

    A weapon is considered eligible if it is a ranged weapon, if the defending unit is at the weapon’s range, and if any other requirements of using the weapon are met."

     

    -First Bullet of Ranged Weapon(pg 57)
    "A weapon with a blue range icon (1/2/3/4/5/+) is a ranged weapon. Ranged weapons can only be used during ranged attacks."

     

    And from the official FAQ thread, posted Oct 11th. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/277344-star-wars-legion-official-rulings/
    "The errata'ed version of Limited Visibility limits attacks beyond a certain range. Using the Fire Support keyword is not an attack, and thus its use is unaffected by the condition card."

    Now, I don't think Fire Support actually shouldn't ever be able to be used. But I also think the same reasoning that allows it to work through limited visibility is the same wording that would allow you to add the weapons dice to the attack pool, despite being engaged.

    Rewording the previous ruling in the way that makes logical sense to me, based on RAW.
    "Being engaged prevents ranged attacks from being made. Using the Fire Support keyword is not an attack, and thus its use is unaffected by being engaged." 

    I just want to be done with this, but can't wrap my head around the Rules As Written.

    To be clear.
    I THINK Fire Support should be able to be used, in general.
    I THINK Fire Support shouldn't be able to be used out of melee.
    I THINK the rules are written poorly on both of these matters.

    Fire Support was made with Clones in mind. The whole reason for it and token sharing is that Clones wouldn’t survive without them. Since the creation of Legion’s clone army, the developers have thought why not use that keyword elsewhere, so now we have two units (one Imp, one rebel) that can use it as well. Going back to the clones, and that they wouldn’t survive, is because without token sharing and Fire Support, they’re too expensive and there will be too few units in an army. Generally the republic has only 8 units to every other faction’s 10. That being said, if you have a Battle Card (objective, deployment & condition - in this case condition) that takes away that ability (namely Fire Support) it will weaken the entire faction, so an exception needed to be made. It sounds like, from the wording, that the developers are suggesting what you are saying (fire even while in melee), but if you know the above backstory/reasoning it should make more sense. It’s about keeping an even playing field and Limited Visibility kinda gets in the way. There is no intent to allow clones to fire while engaged as that would make them somewhat broken.

    The developers have talked about stuff like this in interviews, but I guess you still have to connect the pieces. I hope that explains it all.


  3. 1 hour ago, lunitic501 said:

    People seem to be forgetting that with Rex's 1 pip since he doesn't flip his token after fire supporting he still gets to activated normally, so sure it may be difficult/dangerous to get him to a spot where he can fire support multiple times, but if hes in range to fire support then hes in range to take a shot on his activation, or have him fire support then snag an objective on his activation.

    I missed that at first, but it was pointed out.

    What people are saying is that it’s not good to have Rex at range 2 of multiple targets as he only has 5 health and can easily be taken out. This can be especially bad if he’s Fire Supporting a melee that involves Dukoo or Grievous and that attack doesn’t end them since Rex will be in range for a follow up attack from those lightsabers. Also because Rex is the Fire Support and not being Fire Supported, you miss out on surge to crit, which the clones sorely need (especially for a Z-6). What’s more is that because Rex is the only clone with a face up order token, he will be the only one to Fire Support that round and if he’s killed early, you won’t even have that.

    Other than that some people still like the card, but see it as weaker than other comparable commanders’ 1 pip around his point value (Leia & Veers). I guess we’ll all have to wait and see it in action to give a final verdict

    Thats the entire thread in a nut shell where Rex’s 1 pip is concerned.😁


  4. 10 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

    They can spend as if they were their own. They don't actually have them.

    With that kind of wording, things like this have worked in X-Wing.

    Its also dependant on the translation. The translation also says, “When a friendly infantry unit performs a ranged attack while having a faceup order token and an Aim token, during the "gather a attack dice pool" step that unit can increase the máximum range of every weapon by 1 (to a máximum of 4)"

    This could mean you can increase the range of a unit you want to include in a Fire Support with the unit. It may be a stretch, but we are dealing with a translation.

    Yeah, I guess I’m an optimist.🙄😁
    I’d say the 2 pip needs a ruling/faq and it’s not legitimately spoiled yet. Lol


  5. Hold

    5 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

    His 2 pip will come down to this:

    Does the squad need the aim token at the start of their activation OR can they aim as one of their actions to also increase their range.

    If they require the aim token at the start of their activation, then this card will take a lot to make it work. 

     

    I don't think token sharing works because in the rule book it says that clone troopers can use tokens that adjacent clones have, but it doesn't say that they "have" the token. I assume their will be an FFQ about this card..

    ***HOLD THE PHONE! Game changer coming through!***

    Just checked the RRG under Clone Trooper:

    A clone trooper unit may spend the green tokens of a friendly clone trooper unit at range 1 and in line of sight as if they were their own.

    Does that mean what I think? If so, yeah that a powerful 2 pip that is better that the 1 pip!


  6. 2 minutes ago, ElcueX2 said:

    I think Rex's 1 pip could fuse well with the new range 1-2 gun the Clones are getting with the Phase One expansion. Adding Peirce 1, and rolling the two extra black and one white with 3 additional red dice. I think adding all of this to 4-5 black dice (depending on upgrades) could be cool. I do agree his two pip is weird, but does Token sharing apply to this? Could using the aim from another clone fulfill the requirements? And Rex gains an aim when he moves so could he increase his own range to 3? 

    Unlikely that token sharing will fulfill the 2 pip Aim requirements. There is no reason Rex’s 2 pip can’t apply to him, so maybe it’s not all bad.

    Just to tell a little story about Rex and Fire Support. I just played a game that came down to points killed. I won, because I used two units to Fire Support each of Rex’s attacks, killing two units on round six. That wouldn’t have happened if those units were supporting Rex as I wouldn’t have had surge to crit (every hit/crit was needed) and I needed my clones to have surge tokens (Aggressive Tactics) So that they didn’t get killed and add to my opponent’s points. Rex’s 1 pip makes all of this unfortunately impossible. Even with everyone’s observations I find Rex’s 2 cards underwhelming, but I’m still hoping there will be some way to make his cards better in the future. Rex’s 3 pip is awesome though! I’ve already used it a lot on TTS.


  7. 2 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

    How is Rex limited to only one Fire Support Attack? 1 Phase 1 squad shoots and Rex Fire supports. Later that turn, another Phase 1 squad shoots and he Fire supports. The limiting factor here is range and vulnerability. 

    If he's only limited to 1 Fire support that turn, then I agree it's pretty underwhelming... But how I read it, he can fire support as many times as he has eligible targets + eligible unit activation. 

     

    Regards to his 2 pip.... Agreed, but I think the real strength of this card will be revealed once we get other trooper units. Maybe Commandos get an aim at the start of their activation? Who knows...

    All true, but Rex’s 1 pip also changes the direction of the support, so the supported don’t get Rex’s surge to crit, and there will be no other unit that has a face up order token, so no other Fire Support than Rex.

    Both of Rex’s one and two pip cards are underwhelming in the face of previous and similar (point wise) Commanders. Leia and Veers have some of the best 1 & 2 pip cards (Veers’ 2 pip is niche, but really good for vehicles) and Rex by comparison is meh. It’s really disappointing (especially since I’ve switched to Republic). But as you said, we don’t know how it will all mesh with future units, so I’ll keep hoping.😁


  8. 13 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

    Make no mistake, I think it's only a lukewarm 1 pip card for the reasons you already stated. I can't think of a situation in which I'd want to use it over ambush. With ambush at least you can give the order to a nearby clone trooper unit, have Rex attack with fire support from the clone troopers and at least benefit from surge to crit. The big problem with this card is that you're still limited to range 2 fire support and you have to wait a turn between attacks. I've used Han almost exclusively since his release and while gunslinger is dangerous, it's maybe useful for 2 attacks in the game. This card suffers from the same short range as gunslinger shots, but combined with the turn wait it becomes rare that this card will get you more than 2 extra attacks. 1 is realistic for it.

    The 2 pip simply requires you to have been given an order and have an aim token on the same unit before you attack. Aim first to get the effect from it.

    Thanks, I guess I still saw the 1 pip in the correct light.

    Then the 2 pip is meh too, unless you get a way to get an aim on them without them taking an action.☹️
     

    8 minutes ago, Squark said:

    It's not melee exclusive, though. It's certainly a tricky card, though. Probably more of a fun gimick than a centerpiece, certainly.

    Good point, but still range two, disappointing. It also negates the gaining of surge to Crit as the support works in the wrong order.

     

    Thanks guys.


  9. 1 minute ago, Squark said:

    He doesn't flip his token over after he fire supports, so he can fire support as many attacks as there are shots at eligible targets.

    Ok, that does sound more powerful, but how many units do you usually have in melee at one time? I know, in the future we’ll have multiple Jedi that can be added, but they better be Operatives and then we won’t have points for corps units. Operatives aren’t usually cheap and with Rex and Obi already, you can only afford 6 more units, unless they’re weakened units in some way (no heavy). It just seems a problematic card when there are cards like Leia’s and Veers’ one pips out there.

    Thanks for pointing that out though, I totally missed that. I guess I’ll have to wait and see how it plays, but it doesn’t seem like an auto-include like some cards.


  10. 50 minutes ago, naitsirk said:

    He can not attack with 10 dice in close combat after all. His ranged weapons gains versatile that let you shoot out of combat but not let you use it as close combat weapons.

    At first I was, “wait, what”, then I looked it up.

    VERSATILE (WEAPON KEYWORD) Some ranged weapons have the versatile keyword. Units can perform attacks with a versatile weapon even while engaged.

    • A weapon with the versatile keyword that is not also a melee weapon cannot be used to perform a melee attack.

    •A weapon with the versatile keyword that is both a ranged weapon and a melee weapon can be used to perform either a ranged attack or a melee attack.

     

    Good catch, but still a strong card for close action with multiple units in the vicinity. Attack one unit in melee, attack another with range and use Force Push on a third. Maybe not a versatile as Grievous’s 1 pip, but still strong.


  11. 1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

    It's certainly strong, but it isn't the most powerful 1 pip out there. He needs to be at range 2 of opposing units (ideally multiple) at the start of the round in order for it to work, but he also isn't that tanky so keeping him locked in place while you get the fire support attacks is risky.

     

    2 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

    If these leaks are true, Rex Pip 1 is insanely strong.... Allowing him to attack several times in a single turn???

    Pip 2 is interesting but a bit restrictive since it only on squads with face up order tokens and aim tokens. 

    Could you guys explain why you think Rex’s one pip is strong? I just don’t see it.

    To me, it looks like Rex only adds 3 red dice to one attack (like you pointed out at range two). This is while no one else can Fire Support, cause Rex gets the only face up order token. It is in addition to his normal attacks and is in melee, but it just seems so much weaker (by a long margin) than Leia’s or Veers’ one pips, who are also around the same price. I do like the idea of adding three red dice to Obi’s attack, but it does mean Rex has to be in range of Dukoo or Grievous in order to get it and Rex will probably also get killed if Obi can’t finish his melee that round, or if Obi gets killed himself. Remember Rex only has 5 health. One good attack from a lightsaber and he’s gone.

    As for Rex’s two pip, how are clones supposed to give aims to a specific unit without using token sharing, or something like Electrobinoculars? Seems really weak too if you need to add another card just to make it work. If they can use token sharing, it’s stronger than Rex’s 1 pip. Think about a fire support between those two units at range 4! That’s a unit deleted on turn 1. Or holding the two units at range 4 and pushing Obi or a BARC into range and Fire Support them while Obi is decked out with several dodge tokens etc.

    Dukoo’s are as strong as I expected, but I guess I’m disappointed with Rex’s 1 pip, but maybe I’m missing something, or over thinking Rex’s two pip. Help a girl out, let me know if I’m seeing this right.🥺


  12. 59 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

    I'm sorry, but your logic doesn't make sense to me.  Maul was alive, well, half of him was, during the Clone Wars, and while I don't think the CIS would be the faction for him, he at least took part in it.  Qui-Gon was not alive, nor did he take part in it at all.  One does not equal the other.  And to people buying this game, Rex probably has as high of a name recognition value as Qui-Gon.

    It's a preceeding conflict, but the time gap (a full decade) kinda makes it hard to include the Battle of Naboo as part of the Clone Wars, or at least the Clone War proper.  I expect we'll see a lot of Episode I stuff eventually (I'm going to talk about some of it in the next article) but I don't think its necessarily a shoe in.

    1. First of all, I want Jar Jar.  He was alive and an active participant in the Clone Wars on several occasions.  He makes sense.  Qui-Gon on the other hand goes back to "why?"  He was dead for a decade by the time of the Clone Wars, had never heard of the Grand Army of the Republic, and for all we know, may have joined Dooku's separatists.  More importantly, there are dozens of Jedi that did fight that are almost as recognizable that should be introduced first, be they council members like Mace, Kit Fisto, or Ki-Adi-Mundi, or background Jedi like Aayla Secura, Quinlin Vos, or Luminara.  As I said in the article, Qui-Gon could come into the game eventually (because of the disrespect for time that you mention) but he most certainly shouldn't be a priority. 

    2. For me, the height of the mini is far less problematic than the square footage it takes up.  For a game where troopers are taking up maybe an inch square of space, having a single unit that takes up 1-2 feet square will be the problem.  Almost no amount of terrain would work with it, and there is not way it could fit into any deployment zone besides long march.  I'd love the AT-TE, but its simply too dang big to be practical.  (Oh, FYI, the AT-ATs in the Rebels episode are actually oversized by a fair margin from the ones we see in ESB.  The AT-TE is still plenty bulky enough to be problematic.)

     

    And thanks for the replies everyone!  I hope you enjoyed the article, and will read the next one when it comes out tomorrow!  If you can, check us out on Facebook!  Shameless plug, but we're real close to hitting our first milestone of having 100 likes, and it would be awesome to have that correspond with the Clone Wars release!  

    Thanks again!

    I can understand your argument against the AT-TE, but it doesn’t make me want it less. 😅

    But as for Qui-Gon, I was trying to say that the Clone Wars is an era that also includes things that happened a few years prior. We never see Sifo-Dyas (so I don’t expect him in Legion), but without him there would be no clone army. We do see Qui-Gon just prior to the Clone Wars and he is important to the story that leads into the Clone Wars itself. Yes, there are more prominent Jedi that were front and center in the CW, and I would expect them to come well before Qui-Gon, but I would expect them to come out with Qui-Gon at some point. My point is that the prequels were a trilogy that had a beginning, middle and an end. The CW were encompassed in only two of those movies, but it doesn’t make the other one movie pointless. Without the first movie the CW would make less sense and Qui-Gon is a major player in that movie whether he fought with clones or not. Like it or not, the Phantom Menace is part of that trilogy and era, so FFG will no doubt draw from that source.

    As for Jedi squads, I agree that would be bad, but I hope the first generic Commander is a Jedi or even just a Padawan. Maybe just one force slot, a command and equipment slots and a lightsaber that does 3black and 2white, Pierce 1, Impact 1, maybe 60points?

    2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

    @JediPartisan Sabine, unlike Qui-Gon, was actually alive and fought with the Rebellion in canon while Qui-Gon never fought alongside the Clones. Just because she also fought the Empire before the formal establishment of the Rebel Alliance and that is what we are shown, doesn't make it a comparable situation in my opinion. 

    It’s actually exactly the same. Sabine was part of “a” rebellion. It’s like if the Nazis had won the Second World War and Norway started a small rebellion then after freeing one city, just stopped. Then North America started a rebellion that was joined by Europe and Asia and won. Would you say the one city from Norway was part of the rebellion? Of course not, but maybe Norway did something that inspired the others or used a strategy that worked. Norway would be relevant to the rebellion story, but not really part of it. Qui-Gon is a relevant part of the story that leads into the CW. Wow this explanation got weird.😳

     


  13. I’d say, I agree with everything you mention save for two points.

    1. Each faction is from an era not just the event for which it is named. We say “Clone Wars” or “Galactic Civil War” because it is a convenient encapsulation of the given eras, but in truth the Clone Wars does have everything to do with the events/movies that come before. Without Anakin being introduced to Qui-Gon, would Obiwan become Obi’s Padawan? As far as FFG goes, I’m sure they’re selecting from what seems cool to them and what they think will sell and I don’t think we can blame them. I truly wouldn’t mind having Qui-Gon (even though he was dead and never saw a clone... that we know) and I wouldn’t mind having Jarjar, though he has to have the distract ability (permanently on) and not cost much and definitely no lightsabers or force powers. My point is, it’s ok to include things that came slightly before or after as they’re still a part of that era. Look at Sabine. The Star Wars Rebels show actually starts before the rebellion was a thing. Should Sabine be included? She stayed on Lothal during most of the rebellion to protect Lothal from the Empire’s return (they didn’t). Does this mean she shouldn’t be included? Since Star Wars is decided into eras with many years gap in between, I think we can expect more of this.

    Also isn’t this all moot anyway when we have droids fighting rebels and republic & Jedi fighting imperials?


    2. This one is just my personal wish, so take it as such, but I really want an AT-TE and I think it’s easily possible. I will admit, I think the AT-AT is a non-starter for Legion (sorry to those who really wanted it). The AT-TE and AT-AT are about the same length, but the AT-TE is half the height of the AT-AT (according to wiki pages, which I think may be wrong - I’ll explain why - see video link). The AT-ST already towers over any battlefield and makes it hard to get full cover for a full squad even with lots of LoS blocking terrain, but the AT-AT is twice the height of the AT-ST (wiki pages again), so just think of how even a scaled down AT-AT would be on a Legion board. Keep in mind T-47’s flew between AT-ATs’ legs without problems (from what I’ve heard the T-47 may be a bit small for Legion’s scale, but that’s only rumour I’ve heard). Now look in contrast to the AT-TE. Sure, it’s bulky, but it doesn’t tower over everything. If you look at the episode of Star Wars Rebels (start at time index 1:40) where an AT-TE and an AT-AT fight (almost wrestling) you can see a huge scale difference, though if I’m completely honest I wonder if the creators played around with scale to fit the scene like the did with lightsaber lengths. Still I think the AT-TE would be awesome and like any fan-girl I really want to see it in Legion.

    Here’s a good verses video which I think more accurately shows the scale difference.


  14. 8 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

    You misspelled droids.😉

    On a serious note they should be next week right? FFG use to like to do a announcement a week for Legion, at least for a bit they did. I would also say that sets up unit expansions for November and bunker and pod (maybe??) for December.

    Conspiracy theory time!!!: With them doing everything for Empire and Rebels in just one article does that help push the theory that they are hiding something? They have revealed almost everything for the bunker, escape pod, and now grouping up the unit pack in mid October. That is a lot of time to go without articles and they are still missing two SKUs. I mean sure they can start revealing stuff set for next year, but I don't know how to feel about their articles being months ahead of release..................

    I thought the Obi alternate sculpt (the one only available in Europe) took up one of those SKUs, but I haven’t heard confirmation. I’m hoping the last SKU is a Priority Supplies like expansions that is Clone Wars themed, but can be used by everyone. It would be so cool to get new Battle Cards.😎


  15. 57 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

     Nope.   Imperial z6.  Less dice, but critical.   Plus, and here is the best part, it LOOKS COOL.  I'm happy with it.  Will use it, and will enjoy it.   

    The only thing about adding more white dice to a pool of white dice, is that there is nothing offsetting their poor odds. When you add two red to a pool of white, you get consistency and the possibility of a decent attack each round. If you’re just rolling all white, you can expect nothing but swing, and if you have a run of poor luck, it can make a real negative game experience. So if you have the choice of something that has a wild swing that costs more, or something that has better range and a high level of consistency at a lower cost, most people will chose the later. But if it works for you, that’s cool too.


  16. 16 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

    I think a lot of the stuff in these two packs are meh??? I mean exhaust cards are questionable at best and the weapons at best are more lateral movements then something that we must have (FFG really value their surge to crits). If I had  to say the best of the pack is the DLT-A for Rebels? It may not be better then the Z-6, but at least it offers a clear role in why you would want it over other weapons. Maybe next week we will get the Clone Wars ones and they will have more stand out stuff (poison droid shotguns).

    ..........................IDK it really feel like this is a tournament expansion and we will have to wait until the pros get their hands on them to see if anything can shine brighter then the power of Z-6s and DLTs.

    If anything the real value of these packs are the alt models for Rebels. Gonna have a lot of fun cutting off heads and diversifying the units.

    The commander option is huge. There have been many times when having two actions on round 6 can decide the whole game, even if it’s just a double move to engage so that your opponent can’t cap an objective. A lot of the upgrades add more to function than to punch, like the rebel DLT, it’s not about the damage or the critical keyword, it’s about range 4. I think these upgrades are awesome, even though I question some of the point costs.

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