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Kaigen

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  1. Like
    Kaigen got a reaction from Rithuan in Rise of the Separtist's release date?   
    Signal boosting this request. If anyone is willing to provide some summary of how they have the Troupe system set up, I'd be very interested in seeing that.
  2. Like
    Kaigen got a reaction from Ilderfant in Rise of the Separtist's release date?   
    Signal boosting this request. If anyone is willing to provide some summary of how they have the Troupe system set up, I'd be very interested in seeing that.
  3. Like
    Kaigen got a reaction from Ogrebear in Rise of the Separtist's release date?   
    I'm working from second hand photos, so bear with me (and don't bother asking for additional info beyond what's visible in a spec tree, I don't even have direct access to someone with the book).
    (edit: The Pilot and Trooper trees are nested in there, but I can't get the edit system to let me try to fix it.
    Clone Stats:
  4. Thanks
    Kaigen got a reaction from Underachiever599 in Rise of the Separtist's release date?   
    I'm working from second hand photos, so bear with me (and don't bother asking for additional info beyond what's visible in a spec tree, I don't even have direct access to someone with the book).
    (edit: The Pilot and Trooper trees are nested in there, but I can't get the edit system to let me try to fix it.
    Clone Stats:
  5. Thanks
    Kaigen got a reaction from SavageBob in Rise of the Separtist's release date?   
    I'm working from second hand photos, so bear with me (and don't bother asking for additional info beyond what's visible in a spec tree, I don't even have direct access to someone with the book).
    (edit: The Pilot and Trooper trees are nested in there, but I can't get the edit system to let me try to fix it.
    Clone Stats:
  6. Like
    Kaigen reacted to ErikModi in Playing as a Grey Jedi   
    Ah, yes, the good old "Path of What I Was Going To Do Anyway." How I have not missed you.
  7. Like
    Kaigen reacted to penpenpen in Can the clones breed?   
    I think that hits upon the reason for the slightly odd choice of having the kids be twi'lek-human hybrids (well, Pablo Hidalgo mentioned that they were intended to be, but canonically nothing has been stated) but not Cut's biological kids. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that they were originally intended to be his kids, and designed (drawn? computer generated? My english vocabulary fails me) that way, with some features hinting at them being hybrids. Then as the episode is complete, someone does the math and realizes that if Cut would have to desert on the very first day of combat (which doesn't gel that well with him being the war-weary old veteran-archetype), go straight to Saleucami and start making babies (and twi'lek pregnancy lasting weeks rather than months) and the episode featuring his family taking place on pretty much the last day of the war for the kids to be the 3-6 year-olds they seem to be supposed to be (the Clone Wars only lasted four years). Could be explained away as a a case of twi'leks maturing faster, or accelerated aging, but the "not his biological kids" is probably the less forced explanation.  
  8. Like
    Kaigen reacted to KungFuFerret in Playing as a Grey Jedi   
    I don't think it's heavy handed for a GM to indicate that a particular outside stimulus is engendering a certain emotional reaction.   That's what outside things do.  Besides, the fact is that most players are unwilling to let their PC's act natural when it comes to emotions, specifically negative ones, especially if that emotional reaction might have detrimental consequences for them.   
    But the reality of being an organic being that has emotions, is that they are not 100% under our control, if hardly ever.  Self-control is mostly learning how to notice the emotions when they arise (of their own volition based on outside stimulus), and TRY and control them, to prevent them from influencing our actions.  But as anyone who has been alive for any length of time knows, that doesn't always work.   We've all seen, and had it happen to us.  Some situation happens, and our body reacts.  We feel hot with embarrassment, rage, shame, fear, etc.  Sometimes we keep our cool, sometimes we don't.  The GM is the person telling the player what emotion is effecting the PC, the PLAYER is the one who then determines the reaction to that outside stimulus.   And since the game runs on dice, to allow for variable results, that's when some kind of Discipline/Cool/Etc check should come into play.  If the player wants to resist it, and not just embrace the emotion (perfectly valid for a Dark Sider), then they would roll the dice.  If they succeed, then the PC acts in accordance to how the Player wants them to react.  If they fail, they didn't keep their cool, and end up having a negative reaction.  Which is something that happens to all of us.  Again, this is only an issue with players who aren't willing to simply embrace the light/dark nature of roleplaying, which is a large number of them in my experience.  They seem to forget that what makes the most cherished characters in history compelling are how they don't always win.  How they have flaws, and problems, and weaknesses, that enemies exploit to push the hero down paths they wouldn't normally have chosen.  The struggle is where the drama, and enjoyment in the storytelling lives.  
    So to be mad at the GM for "telling me how I feel" is kind of a really lame excuse, one used by people who can't get past their own ego about what they want the PC to be, and see how the PC can change and develop as events effect them.  You know, like LIFE.  And how it will be even more satisfying to have them have to struggle to either climb back up from the pit they put themselves in, or the struggle to maintain their morality, when so many things seek to push them away from it.
    I mean, let's use a scene from Civil War, the movie.  Major spoiler for that one person who hasn't seen the film but...
    Now it's easy to say in that scene that the GM could respond with "this has enraged your PC."  with "nuh uh! You don't get to tell me how my PC feels!"  Instead of embracing the fact that it could lead to an awesome conflict between friends, the culmination of an entire campaign's tension and drama, and make for a gaming session that the friends talk about for years to come as one of those awesome sessions.
    There is an episode of GM of the Rings that I think perfectly illustrates this.  The PC's are going into the Mines of Moria, and the GM tells them that they feel an overwhelming cold dread come over them as they enter the dark and dead caverns (you know, like what would happen to just about anyone who really does something like that.)   And one of the players says "no i don't."  the GM replies "What?"  "I don't feel afraid.   I've faced down Cthulhu's spawn and stared into the gaping maw of madness that is the eldritch horrors of the Old Ones!  This is nothing!  Let's go!"   In my experience, players have a hard time separating their own personal lack of fear (or any emotion really) of a situation, from the fact that they are sitting at a table, safe and comfortable, with friends, eating chips and drinking soda.  So since THEY don't feel fear, then they don't see why their PC should feel fear.   Basically, a lot of players try and meta their PC's emotions, based on their own emotional state.   
    Eh, I'm going off too long on this.

    TLDR:  Emotions aren't always under our control, that's just reality for anyone.  So it's perfectly reasonable for a GM to declare a PC is feeling a certain type of emotion, based on outside stimulus.  It's the player's right to then try and determine how the PC reacts to said stimulus.
  9. Like
    Kaigen reacted to KungFuFerret in Why do people hate Jedi?   
    Except the films show the "goody two shoes" you talk about, being anything but that.  They aren't sociopathic murder hobos, but Obi-Wan does some dodgy stuff in the prequels, and the original trilogy.  It's easy for players to just lump Jedi into "Paladin D'Bags", but the reality is far from that.  The fact that most players aren't creative enough in their roleplaying to see Paladins or Jedi as anything other than a "buzz kill for our fun because they don't want to like, torture and murder people without any emotional conflict" ...well that's a problem with the player, not the concept.    Qui-Gon literally gambles with the lives of slaves, and cheats on the very gambling for those slaves.  He makes a decision of his own volition to condemn Anakin's mother to remain a slave, because the boy was personally valuable to him and his religious beliefs.   He defies his Order's verdict on whether or not to train the child, because he didn't like their answer.  Obi-Wan lies about being the Jedi who ordered the Clone Army so that he can get further information, he gets angry and lashes out in stupid ways on multiple occasions in the PT, and I'm pretty sure he does several un-Jedi things in the Clone Wars cartoon as well, though I don't remember much of it.   Yoda lies about who he is to Luke, steals things from his supplies and eats them without asking, proceeds to beat on R2 with a stick when he tries to reclaim the afore-mentioned stolen property.  He lies to Luke about his past and his parentage because it's more advantageous to his own personal goals of stopping the Emperor.    The Jedi are hardly the "Paladin D'bags" that people often claim they are.  Heck Paladins themselves are hardly that way in reality.  It's just PLAYERS don't know how to actually play them
    It sounds more like you hate the way players interpret how the Jedi should be, instead of how they actually are.   
    And Han wasn't special and unique (at least by his own boasting), by saying he had "the fastest ship in the galaxy" and had done the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs?    Also, it's hard to be "unique" when you are literally one of thousands in an established Order.  That's kind of the opposite of unique.   There are plenty of them who basically boiled down to "nameless mooks" in the prequel trilogy, just to flesh out action scenes, and die off.
    How is this a criticism of Jedi?  This is a criticism of bad writing and plugging them into a setting that doesn't fit them.   I mean, I agree with your feelings that this is bad, but it's not really a criticism of Jedi.
    This is a personal preference and opinion, not an objective fact.  And I know this because basically every character you listed (except for Chewie), I personally find incredibly boring and/or overhyped.  Boba Fett is a joke, he's killed a blind man with a stick, and not like Chirrut Imwe kind of "blind guy with a stick".  A regular blind guy, who literally didn't know he was there, and just casually caused him to die.  Yeah...master hunter of men then one.     
    Now don't get me wrong, you are perfectly fine to prefer the other character types of Star Wars, instead of the Jedi, but "I just like these guys more because they interest me more personally." again isn't really a criticism of the Jedi.  That's simply a personal preference.   I personally find the mysticism and moral struggles of the Force and Force Users to be the most interesting thing about Star Wars, and the thing that sets it apart from all the other scifi genres out there.  I don't consider that a positive thing about the Jedi when discussing their pros/cons as a concept, it's just my personal preference.
  10. Thanks
    Kaigen reacted to emsquared in Playing as a Grey Jedi   
    Oh my lawd, it's driving me crazy...
    This is not what the Morality system is for.
    This thought process is why so many people have so many problems with using it.
    Look at the mechanical "place" of Morality, in the Force and Destiny "system".
    It sits in the exact same spot as Obligation and Duty. Those mechanics are there to help create interesting story developments, and rp choices, and to assist the player in telling the PC's story. It's a meta-level, player-driven story mechanic.
    It is not supposed to be an adversarial, "gotchya" mechanic, where the GM is trying to "trick" the player into falling to the Darkside. This is not the intent. It is there for the player (and GM) to use mindfully, to show the ways in which their PC is light or dark.
    By design, by RAW, it is supposed to be 100% in the control of the Player (by RAW, the GM is supposed to notify them any time they're gonna do something that earns Conflict), whether or not their PC is light, dark, or in between.
    The vanilla game mechanic of Morality is not supposed to be a mechanical nor narrative slippery slope. It supposed to be a narrative ladder, or staircase, which the Player ascends or descends deliberately.
    If you want it to be that gotchya-mechanic, slippery slope, yea, you're gonna have to make some big changes to the way it works, and even then it's still probably not gonna work that way for you. As we see from accounts from players time and again here who try to use it that way. That wasn't it's design purpose, and frankly it's hard to use it in a way it's not intended.
    It's just unfortunate most ppl don't seem to understand the intent of it.
  11. Like
    Kaigen reacted to Yaccarus in PBP   
    When you’re doing a game with voice chat, awkward silence is really awkward. So any time the game stalls, somebody says something that forces it to move on.
    When you’re doing a game with text, awkward silence is much less awkward. So it just stays silent.
  12. Like
    Kaigen reacted to BCGaius in What options did Jedi have to settle disputes?   
    They are often not much different than any other diplomat or ambassador - someone with plenipotentiary power to negotiate. While the Republic can and does send regular old diplomats, the Jedi Order has a reputation for being mediators and fair-minded interlocutors, and tend to be pretty measured and, well, zen in their dealings.
    So of course, not only do they have a diplomat's primary skillset in spades... they're also excellent at a diplomat's #2 skillset: espionage. They can sense emotion and intent, read between lines no one else can see, and get in and out of places a normal diplomat or spy would have trouble with. This in turn can not only provide leverage and information useful in negotiations (which is the purpose of a great deal of espionage in the first place, as opposed to nefarious poisonings or Mission Impossible heists), but also accomplish parallel goals or provide the Republic (and the Jedi diplomat) with more tools and options in a crisis. A Jedi Knight can simultaneously negotiate for the release of hostages while also acting as the guy to go in there and rescue them if things go bad.
    As for Qui-Gon in TPM, that mission had a lot of things going on. It's possible that Valorum sent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in 100% good faith, but unlikely. Real-world international negotiations almost always have more going on than appears at first glance, and it's not just about purely transactional "this lifted sanction for that concession" dealmaking. Even the act of meeting for a negotiation can itself be a diplomatic victory for one side or the other, or a ploy or a feint never intended to be followed through with. Valorum and his advisors probably suspected that the Trade Federation would fold at the mere "shock and awe" of two Jedi Knights showing up, and thus sent the Jedi as a diplomatic show of force to intimidate the Federation into backing down. However, this is further complicated by all of this very likely being part of Palpatine's manipulations, even if not everything went exactly as he planned. Palpatine was nothing if not arrogant, but he was prepared for the eventuality that his Federation stooges would fail to kill the Jedi. He probably wanted Valorum to send the Jedi to further brew up a crisis for him to pin on Valorum and seize the chancellorship for himself.
  13. Like
    Kaigen got a reaction from Josep Maria in What could a scientist in my Star Wars RPG fan fic be working on?   
    Efficiency improvements on repulsorlift systems. The manufacturers could use those improvements for energy efficiency, but we all know they'll just crank up the Newtons for an impressive spec sheet.
  14. Like
    Kaigen reacted to ColonelCommissar in Collapse of the Republic era book   
    I reckon the next book after this will be Fall of the Jedi, a book about Order 66 and the Rise of the Empire, where the Jedi Career gets its own expansion, including both some sort of Jedi Temple Guard-variant, and a Jedi Runaway type.
    There are interesting similarities between the ACW and the Clone Wars, but that's where it ends. Funnily enough that's also the one where you might suggest there were 'war profiteers' (heavy inverted commas there...), as both sides did come to Britain to purchase arms as we were at the time the world's leading manufacturer.
    I would be happy to discuss this further off the board, as it's heavily off-topic, but to affirm: there's very little similarity between the Clone Wars and either of the World Wars, and the British (not jsut the English, please remember we're a broader nation) did not somehow conspire to bring the United States into the World Wars.
    If they wanted to just reprint Only War's Regiment Creation system I wouldn't really object. Some Star Wars flavour would make it excellent!
  15. Like
    Kaigen reacted to Decorus in Fighting a force user   
  16. Like
    Kaigen reacted to Donovan Morningfire in Collapse of the Republic era book   
    Possibly.  There's been a lot of requests for Clone Wars material, so it's probably not too far-fetched of an idea for FFG to try and milk that for what they can.  Sure, they could have tried to do a new core rulebook for the Clone Wars era, but they've already gotten enough flak for having split the line into three core books (one for galactic fringe, one for Rebels, one for Force users), so a fourth core book might not have been all that well-received, especially for what is viewed by some as a slowly dying product line.
    Dawn of Rebellion really only covered the last few years running up to the events of Rogue One, and didn't delve all that much into the earlier days of the Empire, when there was no Rebellion and the Empire was still consolidating its power.  So I could see a separate splat being released that covered that initial decade or so, when the Empire really didn't have any opposition (apart from scattered resistance cells that were more akin to annoying gnats than any sort of serious threat), but that time frame is to be frank rather oppressive, though it might be a place to introduce the notion and provide tips/suggestions on running an all-Imperial campaign.
    As others have said, Clone Wars covers a lot of material, from two feature films to five seasons of a what is generally a well-regarded animated series (I'm not a fan of the series, but acknowledge that I'm in the minority on that one).  It's also possible that Rise of the Separatists will cover the years leading up to the launch of the Clone Wars, and Collapse of the Republic will cover some of those early years of the Empire after the events of EpIII.
    And yes, there is the simple fact that folks have been asking for a Jedi career with attendant specs, and having said material split into two books is a valid marketing tactic as it increases the likelihood that far more folks will buy both books to make up for the likely much smaller percentage of folks that would only purchase the one of the two books if all the Jedi material was in a single tome.  Money grab?  Undoubtedly, but since FFG is a "for profit" business, it's really not all that surprising that they'd take an approach that would hopefully boost sales of both books, again considering that to many this is a dying line and thus there's less incentive to purchase books; the announcement of a giant book of collected (and new) NPCs is to some the initial death knell of this system.
    Me personally, I'd have preferred a single, larger tome rolling everything into a single package, if only to not have to go digging through multiple books to look for something.  But at the same time, I'm aware that said tome probably wouldn't generate as much revenue as two standard-size sourcebooks, and that as a "for-profit" company FFG is going to do what they feel is going to best generate revenue so that they can stay in business and keep the owners/stockholders happy.  In the words of young Lando, "I don't like it, I don't appreciate it, but I accept it," as that is by and large the way the RPG industry works; really only WotC and Paizo are big enough that they can afford to have the occasional sourcebook turn out to be a fiscal dud due to the substantially larger customer base, so FFG needs to try and ensure that as many folks buy their products as possible.  And if that means splitting Clone Wars material that people have been asking/pleading/begging/whining for pretty much since the line's launch, then they'll do it.
    It also might be a test (much like Dawn of Rebellion was a test for era-specific books) to see if they can pull it off, so that if they delve into the KOTOR/SWTOR era (which itself could easily be two sourcebooks) they'll know whether or not they can use multiple books to cover more material, or have to settle for one book and cover far less material.
  17. Like
    Kaigen reacted to Daeglan in Collapse of the Republic era book   
    2 books for 2 movies and 5 seasons of a tv show? Seems reasonable.
  18. Like
    Kaigen reacted to Yaccarus in Collapse of the Republic era book   
    This is not OK. You can just announce sourcebooks like this if you don’t actually release anything.
  19. Like
    Kaigen got a reaction from GroggyGolem in Collapse of the Republic era book   
    I'm curious to see how much overlap/differentiation there is going to be between the Officer and Commander specs for the Clone Trooper.
    Interesting species lineup for sure.
  20. Like
    Kaigen reacted to HappyDaze in What could a scientist in my Star Wars RPG fan fic be working on?   
    After saying that, I still have to wonder how you think that bad science is reason enough to drop a Star Wars story. There's bad science in pretty much every Star Wars story and most people don't care all that much when they've got bad acting and crap scripts to complain about. OK, there might be some exceptions (Starkiller Base with it's dumb supergun and the redefining of the hyperspace "rules" in the new films), but generally science is just a background element in Star Wars, so why give it so much attention?
    Also, why try to "go big" with a background element? There are numerous areas where research to produce an incremental improvement would be fine as a background story. Since it's unlikely that anything truly novel is going to pop out after 25k years of science, go for modest changes in what's already out there. Something that improves material strength of a metal even at reduced density, improvements to a droid's memory and recall speed, more fuel efficient or higher performance ion turbines can all work. If you want to go creepy, how about a cybernetic implant that works like a restraining bolt on biological beings?
  21. Like
    Kaigen reacted to KungFuFerret in Rule question: failed check with triumph   
    The Triumph does still count as a success, to be measured against the number of failures to determine if the roll succeeds or fails.  However if the number of failures is higher, then they don't perceive anything with their perception.   

    HOWEVER:
    The Triumph effect itself, the (a really cool/beneficial thing the player gets to choose), does still apply.  So the player can perhaps upgrade their next check (perhaps the reaction roll of the suspected ambush they were trying to perceive).   
    To give an example from pop culture, think about the first Predator movie.  There is a point in the story, where the Native American character KNOWS something is tracking them, but he can't find it.  He warns the others that something "isn't right", and continues to scan the jungle for the threat.   To me, that's a good example of a Failed check (he never actually spotted the Predator), but with a Triumph (he KNOWS something IS out there, tracking them, and was able to alert his unit to the danger, making them more aware of the situation, perhaps giving the party a boost die on their initiative roll, or their own reaction check to not be ambushed further down the trail). 
    That's one way the results could potentially play out.  That's of course, assuming the Perception check was to spot someone tracking the player.    But the basic concept applies.  However the context of the situation itself would likely inform the player and the GM on what would be good uses for the Triumph.
  22. Like
    Kaigen reacted to penpenpen in Current Marvel comics   
    I like Aphra as her negative traits, while also played for laughs, are shown to have actual negative, disastrous, consequences. While she could skate by for a while, dodging the fallout and telling herself that while she was bad, there was plenty of people who were worse, as of late things have really come back to bite her in the keister. She's managed to burn pretty much every bridge and betray every ally she's had, and is starting to realize just how much of terrible person she's really become.
    Also, while she has managed to beat the odds and (barely) stay alive, her latest adventures have been sending her from bad to worse in a constant downwards spiral with nothing even remotely resembling a win in sight. And it's mostly her own damned fault.
    It's pretty brilliant IMO.
  23. Like
    Kaigen reacted to HappyDaze in What is the point of COMPNOR and the ISB?   
    COMPNOR was only partially effective with determined adults. It also dedicated its efforts towards bending the developing generation of youths that would have been the Empire's future. If your version of Star Wars accepts the First Order, then COMPNOR had some success that outlived the Empire.
  24. Haha
    Kaigen reacted to Stan Fresh in What is the point of COMPNOR and the ISB?   
    He couldn't protect the galaxy from a farm kid, a drug runner, and Princess I-want-to-speak-with-the-manager.
  25. Like
    Kaigen reacted to KungFuFerret in Why do people hate Jedi?   
    I doubt it's any one reason, but at least for a portion of the fanbase, I think it's a bit of redirection of anger at the way the franchise has been presented, and foisting it on the Jedi since they were the focus of the movies, specifically the prequels.   The way the Jedi were portrayed in the prequel trilogy is....really really dumb.   They are a fumbling, bumbling order of incompetent doofuses, that can't tell their **** from a hole in the ground.   They drop the ball of competency on so many occasions, and in such epic ways, that it is the root of a lot of the downfall of the Republic, as presented in those films.   Now personally, I chalk this up to really terrible writing and direction of those films, when in reality that organization would likely be far more competent than presented on screen.  But, there was a final point that had to be reached in the prequel trilogies (all Jedi dead but Yoda and Kenobi), so they just wrote it however it seemed to work to cause their downfall.    And that made for some much hated films, that were focused almost exclusively on the Jedi and their actions.   So, Prequels = Dumb Movies, Prequels = Jedi Movies, ergo Jedi = Dumb People.   This is probably the reason for those types of players who use OOC hatred to justify doing really **** things to Force users in game, and give a reason like your one player did.  "I hate force users, I hate Jedi, thus I'm going to be a **** to any I meet in game.  Even if my character doesn't have any reason to hate them."   That's just some meta bull **** that a lot of fans are guilty of, and is frankly immature behavior.  So for those type players, I'd say the reason is "they are immature fanboys that are still butt hurt about stories that upset them from decades ago."
    Another section of the fanbase are probably just tired of the focus on Force users in the storytelling, and would like more emphasis on the more "mundane" aspects of the Star Wars universe.   The people who love the ships and fleet battle content most, the ones who like the large, wartime battles, etc.   For them, it's probably just a frustration of focus on a single aspect of the franchise that they find less than appealing.   Though I doubt this group actively "hates" them as much as just wish there was more focus on other groups.   I've heard people in this category, and they don't generally "hate" the Jedi and Force Users, they just want more content that's space battles and fleet actions, etc.  More Battle Above Endor, less Luke Fighting Vader in Throne Room.
    Others, again I think this is probably a smaller subset of them, might have an issue with the philosophical side to the Jedi, as represented by their Jedi Code, and how they dictate ways of living, the celibacy thing, taking very young children away from their family and indoctrinating them into what is basically a cult by modern standards.    I kind of empathize with this group, as I find myself rolling my eyes whenever the subject of the Jedi's morality being one of actual "evil", because it doesn't conform to modern understandings of things like child development, social integration, biological urges, etc.   People seem to forget the "code" of the Jedi is a cobbled together mix of real world religious philosophies, and new-age mumbo-jumbo from back in the 60's and 70's.   We've learned a LOT more stuff today about those subjects that make those views on how to live a "balanced" life, flat out wrong.    I think this group, just has an issue with separating the fictional world-rules from real world understanding, and want it all to be "accurate".  Accurate in a universe with magical space wizards with laser swords, and other total silliness.   To this bracket of fans, the Jedi represent terrible religious dogma that destroyed civilized society, and allowed a tyrant and despot to seize control of a government, and turn it into an empire.    And since the group at the heart of it all was the Jedi, and their inability to see past their own dogma (because of REALLY heavy handed writing), it's all their fault, thus back to that Jedi = Dumb example above.
     
    I'm sure there are plenty more groups with their own reasons why, but I'd say those likely encompass the larger groups reasoning.   At least those are some of the most common criticisms that I actually SEE USED on this site, and other sites, when explaining why a person hates the Jedi.  So, by the fact that these are the most commonly used reasons, I'd say they speak for themselves really.
     
    I personally love the Jedi, and chalk up their many many flaws, to bad writing, by Lucas and a multitude of Legacy writers (aka published fan fiction writers).   But I'm apparently in the minority of many Star Wars fans, in that I don't get my self identification from the franchise, and can appreciate it for what it tries to be, even if it doesn't always get their narratively.   And I can accept that the various films can be fun and enjoyable, while still being flawed, which doesn't mean they are "destroying" things.
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