I would question the skill and experience of your opponents. I'm only saying this as someone who has had an ISD since sullust and only ever lost one in one game, but has also killed a good many. If you are "chasing" with an ISD you are doing it wrong. There have only been 2 games where I had my ISD at speed 3, my very first game with it (which I sucked in) and the ONE time I allowed myself to chase a rebel objective ship (learned my lesson). As an imperial player that wants to field an ISD you have to A) be great at deploying them B) be great at supporting them. They are big point piñatas if played poorly and devastating if played correctly.

Poor armaments? Limited defensive capabilities? Bad at destroying squadrons? I strongly suspect that you haven't tried flying one (or against one) yet, because these are not the words of one who has seen Raiders raiding.Even if you're not very creative, at the very least they're a faster, bendier, and cheaper platform for the current Screed/ACM nonsense. If you want to look past wave 1, you might also notice that Ordnance Experts gives the R-1 almost guaranteed 2 damage against every fighter they shoot at. Or that 4 of them with APT and Screed could conceivably take down an MC80 with full shields in one round. Or that the Empire now has the most maneuverable ship in the game, that can literally orbit a fighter furball without a nav command and pour black dice into it. Or that you can kit them with Expanded Launchers, Ordnance Experts, and support with Vader for two blue dice and FOUR, DOUBLE-rerollable black dice out the front... for 61 points each. And oh by the way they're still amazing against fighters too: thanks, rerollable double black anti-squadron dice! If you're running Instigator, you run it in conjunction with a fighter that's built to take punishment--Vader, maybe, or Boba--and fly the two of them into the middle of the other guy's cloud of bombers. Bam, those bombers are all engaged, all have to shoot at that fighter first, can't be released by either Intel or Grit, and oh by the way are taking double blacks across the board every round. And who knows, maybe you spent the four points to reroll them all. If you're running Impetuous, enhance those anti squadron shots with something. Ordnance Experts on the R-1, Point Defense Reroute and maybe Ruthless Strategists on the R-2. The Raider is an amazingly flexible tool, and as an almost exclusively Rebel player, I fear it when I see it. One advantage you may not immediately recognize from the other side of the table: I consider a Raider at close range to be a mandatory kill. Sure, taking a side arc from an AF2 and 3 B-wings might (*might!*) kill it in one turn... But that's a whole turn that I'm not able to spend shooting that ISD barreling down on me from behind it. And what did it cost you, 50, 55 points? Don't underestimate it because it's dinky. I've had people doing that with my CR90B's for months, and they pay the durasteel price for it. This little guy is bendier, just as resilient, and hits much harder than those. This is a man that knows wtf he is talking about. And he didn't even remember the Raider as an overload pulse missile supporting an ISD II that is lining up a front arc of death, don't even have to run the thing in front of the ISD, just beside it, and its a handful of extra blue dice out the front with a chance (guarantee with screed) at exhausting the targets tokens and laying it up for an Avenger punting. This is why I now own 5 of these little bastards.

Overload pulse is over-rated on a big ship low activation imperial list. Important to remember that the crit effect (OPulse) is resolved after the defender uses their tokens, and unless you have another ship to shoot at it or a (much less effective) side arc the value of overload pulse is limited. I have used it in a raider II supporting an ISD II with avenger to some good effect (raider runs in with conc fire to front arc 4 blue, screed crit, ISD avenger now shooting front arc at token-less ship: ship vapourizes) but getting that raider in position at the exact right time is a trick. As for the ISD 1, it's 100% designed to be a slow-rolling carrier. Why else have 2 offensive upgrades?? Expanded Comms and Hangar bays, that's why, store a squadron token and that SOB can activate an entire rhymerball at long range by itself. I might pick up a third ISD to run a crazy 3 ISD list with a small fighter screen. Crazy!

Well, one ISD is nice, but 2 is better lol played 2 + rhymerball and its pretty terrifying

Also I think I will consider long and hard before running an ISDII without ECM. I have some bad recent memories of eating a couple of rounds of 6 red 2 blue with Home One letting my opponent lock down every single defense token. I was using advanced projectors that allowed me to survive the odd time I got to redirect but heavy accuracy is even better than XI7s in some cases. When I add up how much raw damage I could have outright avoided with ECM it becomes a must.

Greater isn't always Consistent. ACM/APT need to get through before they can trigger a bonus, whereas a second die can still do the potential 2 damage of the ACMs but to the same hull zone instead. Same amount of damage, different placement. What do you mean have to "get through"? You mean you have to roll a crit? not too hard with black dice, but yes it can happen where your crit does not come off and you don't get to resolve a crit effect, but by the same token that extra black die can roll blank. (but you are correct in that you have a more consistent chance at 1 damage extra vs the same shield facing).

Just buy stuff until it no longer makes you happy, lol. I just hit that point Friday when I got all my wave 2 stuff. I just added it up, when I add all my ships (cheapest version) I have nearly 900 points of Imperials and just over 1000 points in rebels (not counting squadrons) I think tonight I will assemble them all and take a picture.

Just for kicks I tried a 2 ISD + Crazy Rhymerball the other day to counter a no-fighter Ackbar list with 2 AFIIs and 2 Corvettes and a MC80. It was a fun match! I used 5 Tie bombers and Rhymer and A firespray and Bobba. I must say I would gladly take all 3 of my firesprays next time over tie bombers, I can't believe how many blanks I rolled on those black dice 25% chance might be strictly true statistically but lady luck hates me. My rhymerball was primarily responsible for the death of 2 ships including the MC80 but good god I hate the Home One title with Ackbar. ECM is now a must have defensive upgrade on ISD. I think next time I'll jig the ball to be able to withstand some fighters, downgrade to a victory carrier and bring a raider as well. Next thing I'm going to try is a max rhymerball with my 5 raiders all sporting expanded hangars. No idea if this will even be a thing...but I have the ships to try! If that doesn't work I may go 4 raiders, Hunter-Killer ISDII and fighter screen. I went a little nuts buying wave 2 stuff.....

I would question that analysis. There is a reason the ISD is equipped with a double redirect, and that is to fully utilize its shields before hull gets touched. It is a rare game where I don't have zero shield on all sides before I have more than 2 or 3 damage cards on the hull, and that is where the engineering spam comes in. 3 rounds of engineering plus 1 token = 7 additional damage that can be spread, if I'm running Tarkin it's more (which is why with more than 1 big ship Tarkin is substantially superior to Motti on certain strats). I typically run advanced projectors to facilitate this, yes XI7s hurt that, but I have never ever ever seen a swarm list that packs an XI7 on every ship, seen plenty that pack enhanced armaments, and it's a simple matter to regen shields facing the XI7 ship while I burn it down. Long story short, it is substantially more survivable when you play it in the role of bait tank instead of hunter-killer but your summary is correct. They are most certainly not an "unstoppable juggernaut" as people attempt to play them. I know when I kill an opposing ISD that was played too aggressively there is this dazed confused look on the opponents face like "that wasn't supposed to happen" All true, but you can stack all the same commands and (defensive) upgrades on the AF2; bringing up the ISD 's 4 engineering (same as AF), AP (also available on AF), or ability to reshuffle shields (available on... basically everything) is not useful. You are correct that they get the second redirect, but it's really only relevant in edge cases: a well-defended AF2 will also go down with zero shields left. If I lose a frigate that still has shields, I ****** something up. Which puts us right back where I started: in terms of survivability, the ISD is only five hull better than an AF2. It's obviously not a perfect comparison, but if the ISD were just a bigger, meaner ________ with MOAR NUMBERS, it wouldn't make for a very interesting game. So the AF2 is about the closest comparison to the ISD survivability-wise that we have much experience with. And several months of experience have shown us that an AF2 flown too aggressively will die and die hard. All I'm saying is that the same is true of the ISD. I still have to disagree because I think offense is an important part of survivability. An ISD can burn down return fire much faster than an AF, therefore staying on the board longer on top of having more/better defense tokens and health.

The Comics Warehouse in Mississauga is having a 20% off almost everything sale on Friday and Meeplemart has a very mysterious announcement about something or other happening on Friday

I have it straight from the source that 401 games in Toronto is doing "something" for Friday. No idea if that will translate to their online store, no idea if the something is anything good, but I will be there picking up my wave 2 anyway so I guess I'll see.

Yeah, exactly, that's why they make amazing bait until rebel players start learning how to play against them. My friend who is a frequent opponent and rebel player has lost every game against me since I got my ISD and only the very first one was close as I didn't know how to use it and stupidly ran it to speed 3 and didn't have nav tokens or nav commands plotted so it fired 1 time and spent the rest of the game trying to turn back into the fight. After his last loss he realized he needs to "ignore" the ISD. A well played ISD (by this I mean well designed, well deployed, well maneuvered, properly supported) is incredibly tough to take down (much like the same goes for a well played corvette that keeps stinging you and you can never seem to pin the thing down). Too many people are using ISDs like blunt objects and then complaining they go down easy. Every time I have seen a rebel fleet take out an ISD it has been outside of medium range of any supporting ships or fighters. Remember, my fellow imperial commanders, the ISD is shaped like a dagger not a battering ram. The ISD is arguably the most survivable ship in the game, sure. But not by much. Under sustained or concentrated fire, they'll go down just like anything else. They can sustain all of five more damage than an Assault Frigate. That's not nothing, but they're far from the unstoppable juggernaut that a lot of people seem to think they are. I would question that analysis. There is a reason the ISD is equipped with a double redirect, and that is to fully utilize its shields before hull gets touched. It is a rare game where I don't have zero shield on all sides before I have more than 2 or 3 damage cards on the hull, and that is where the engineering spam comes in. 3 rounds of engineering plus 1 token = 7 additional damage that can be spread, if I'm running Tarkin it's more (which is why with more than 1 big ship Tarkin is substantially superior to Motti on certain strats). I typically run advanced projectors to facilitate this, yes XI7s hurt that, but I have never ever ever seen a swarm list that packs an XI7 on every ship, seen plenty that pack enhanced armaments, and it's a simple matter to regen shields facing the XI7 ship while I burn it down. Long story short, it is substantially more survivable when you play it in the role of bait tank instead of hunter-killer but your summary is correct. They are most certainly not an "unstoppable juggernaut" as people attempt to play them. I know when I kill an opposing ISD that was played too aggressively there is this dazed confused look on the opponents face like "that wasn't supposed to happen"

Best dice are the kind you actually get the chance to roll. A good rebel player using a swarm list will rarely if ever see your ISD or VSD black dice, why would they? The only rebel ship with notable blacks is the MC30 and if its in short range its to finish you off, a smart player will always be using the reds on those unless they are using a "pack" of MC30s which I have fortunately never experienced.

Can I get on your Christmas list then? Pretty please? No room with me on it

Why can't it be Friday? Sweet sweet ship-filled Friday?!

Hm tourney is at 5 on a weekday. Might be tough to make it from Canada.

Yeah, exactly, that's why they make amazing bait until rebel players start learning how to play against them. My friend who is a frequent opponent and rebel player has lost every game against me since I got my ISD and only the very first one was close as I didn't know how to use it and stupidly ran it to speed 3 and didn't have nav tokens or nav commands plotted so it fired 1 time and spent the rest of the game trying to turn back into the fight. After his last loss he realized he needs to "ignore" the ISD. A well played ISD (by this I mean well designed, well deployed, well maneuvered, properly supported) is incredibly tough to take down (much like the same goes for a well played corvette that keeps stinging you and you can never seem to pin the thing down). Too many people are using ISDs like blunt objects and then complaining they go down easy. Every time I have seen a rebel fleet take out an ISD it has been outside of medium range of any supporting ships or fighters. Remember, my fellow imperial commanders, the ISD is shaped like a dagger not a battering ram.

In fact, I pre-ordered one of everything for wave 2 from 401 games and it came out to under 190 including tax, which is quite decent.

401 games (in Toronto) actually has it for 105 I think, my local FLGS has it for around 110 (in Hamilton). 401 games also offers free shipping on orders over 100 in Canada, so...your local is a little high...by a lot.

well yeah, at that price why the hell not!

I'm likely ending up with 3 MC30s and I don't even play rebels I'm not too worried about corvette tactics TBH, Imperials simply have to adjust tactics to the new meta, we have all the tools we need we just have to use them correctly.

Well, from a financial perspective (and using typical Canadian prices which should roughly map) A second starter costs you ~$110 to get the same ships as expansions Neb B - $21 Corvette - $21 Victory - $41 Manouver tool - $8 Dice pack - $11 Total $101 you miss out on an extra set of printed rules (meh), extra cardboard range rulers (double meh, bought acrylic ones like any serious player would, cardboard can only last so long with handling) and extra obstacles (triple meh) and a few basic fighters (ties and xwings) If you buy the second starter you would miss out (for the same dollar) on a ream of crucial expansion upgrades including generals and named ships. If you are looking for bang for buck a second starter is a non-starter in my book (pun 50% intended and 50% regretted). if you feel you absolutely need a second set of things go ahead but you will need to buy the expansions in any case to have a rounded list of options and a second starter seems wasteful.

Pray you don't fall into the same collection frenzy I did. I don't want to even say how many ships I have its 10 imperial, 13 rebel...and 3 fighter packs of each....and 1.5 rogues and villains....AND I have 4 more ships and a rogues and villains coming on preorder....and I plan on picking up another 3... I can't stop!

I wouldn't buy 2 starters over buying the same ships as expansions. Primarily because the expansions have unique upgrade cards.

URK! want. want. want. want. have to wait till Friday