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Arcanis161

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Everything posted by Arcanis161

  1. If you want more focused damage, take all three MK, X17, Intel Officer. Don't expect to kill fresh ships outright.
  2. TBH, I would try to fit MK on the Battle Cruiser. Perhaps if you drop Spinal Armament, that way you have MK and a two point bid.
  3. Adjusting fleets to try out based on your suggestions, tyvm guys! However, I'm noticing that if I just have Admonition (turned into a scout with TRC) and Mon Karren with some GR75s, I notice that unless I give up upgrades and a (granted high) initiative bid, I can only fit two GR75 flotillas, so there's a concern. I'm also concerned that this combo (Mon Karren and Admonition with Madine) might be one of those that works better as first player rather than second player. While, granted, tactics will be very important in this regard, if I'm always struggling as 2nd player, that might mean it's not so good of a combo after all. This is why I need to test (and test a LOT more than I have been).
  4. Well, since the only other Armada player in my area and I have clashing schedules to where we can never find time to meet, I have been self testing. For these fleets, I have been testing them against fleets that I perceive as being their weaknesses. The 1st fleet took out a (granted basic) Rhymerball, a Konnie 1x Interdictor 2x VSD fleet, and, with effort, a MothMSU. The second fleet barely lost to a Clonisher style DeMSU.
  5. So, overall conclusion/TL;DR: The combo does not do much against certain ships, like the Raider and the Neb-b. It also is not good against the ISD, MC80 Home one, the Liberty, VSD or the Interdictor, scoring 1-2 points more damage at most... against FRESH ships. What I have, hopefully, demonstrated is what I’ve seen the combo do against other ships and lightly damaged ships. It isn’t the mass blaster that the Admonition is, nor have I found it to be a mega glass cannon that kills fresh ships outright. What it does do, however, is kill ships faster. Intel Officer removes a key defense token (granted, it might be better on another ship). Mon Karren and X17 are meant to concentrate damage (and have a bit of a wider spread of what the Mon Karren can kill).
  6. Raider: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, Evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, 2 absorbed by shields, one to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, 2 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 4 damage with accuracy: --All options: evade reduces damage to 3, 2 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. 5 damage with accuracy: --All options: same as 4, but +1 damage to hull 6 damage with accuracy: --All Options: same as 5, but +1 damage to hull Conclusion: Mon Karren is only useful for large damage without an accuracy, X17 is useless, and Intel Officer can only discard the brace if an accuracy isn’t used. Raiders be fragile. GSD: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, Evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields, redirect or not. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect cases 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: redirect causes 5 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. Conclusion: Mon Karren is 8 points for 1 damage, X17 is 6 points for 1 damage. Now, does this open the GSD/Demo up for a lot more punishment (perhaps a strike from the Salvation?), yes. But again, that follow up, or a plan for a future follow up has to be there. VSD: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. -5/6 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 4 damage with accuracy: --All options: Redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: Redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as no upgrades. --X17 only: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it all absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. Conclusion: Intel Officer just doesn’t work well with redundant tokens without an extra accuracy. X17 does ok here, but Mon Karren again is 8 points for 1 damage if that. Interdictor: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2 absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. -5/6 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 + Intel Officer. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes 5 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: redirect makes 4 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer + X17. Conclusion: Mon Karren doesn’t seem to do anything beyond maybe letting a crit through if one is rolled. I don’t know about you, but crits are more medium value to me, not sure I’d spend 8 points for one. ISD: -4 damage, no accuracy (ECM with accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. -5/6 Damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 4 damage with accuracy: --All Options: absorbed by shields, redirect or not. -5 damage with accuracy: --All Options: Redirect use makes it absorbed by shields. -6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as no upgrades. --X17 only: Redirect makes 5 damage absorbed by shields, 1 goes to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. Conclusion: Exactly the same as with the Home One, Mon Karren useless and redundant. Now then, this is all looking VERY bad for the Mon Karren and X17 as a whole, on average each being only worth 1-2 damage points if that in an initial strike. However, before I throw in the towel, let’s do one more experiment. How about we see what happens if, say, we get a good hit off of Salvation at a key area on a GSD or AFMKII (greatest variety of Defense tokens = best damage reduction) and my Liberty is at Medium range away from a (front) shield with 1 point left (all other shields are at max). Let’s see what happens GSD: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, Evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 2, 1 to the shield, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, 1 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, 1 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 3, redirect makes 2 to the shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes 3 damage absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect makes 2 damage absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect makes 3 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect makes 2 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes 3 damage to be absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect cases 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect makes 3 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: redirect causes 3 damage to be absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 4 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. Now the AFMKII: -4 damage, no accuracy (ECM with accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, Evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace would reduce damage to 2, 1 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull, but a redirect would mean all to shields, 0 to hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone if used, otherwise redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only (brace would be used in this case). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5 Damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace would reduce damage to 3, 1 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull, but a redirect means 4 to shields, 1 to hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone if used, otherwise redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only (brace is used in this case). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, 1 absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: Evade reduces damage to 3, redirect makes 2 to shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes the damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect makes 2 to the shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect makes 2 to the shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect makes 4 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect makes 2 to the shields, 3 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 4 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. …an MC30: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 3, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: evade makes it 3, redirect means 2 to shields, 1 to hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect means 2 to shields, 2 to hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 4, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: evade makes it 4, redirect means 2 to shields, 2 to hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: Redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect causes 2 damage to go to shields, 3 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 5, redirect makes 4 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: evade reroll reduces it to 5, redirect makes 2 absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 4 to the hull (dead!). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 3, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --X17 only: evade makes it 3, redirect makes 2 to shields, 1 to hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but 2nd redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect means 2 damage to shields, 2 to hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but 2nd redirect is gone. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 4, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --X17 only: evade makes it 4, 2nd redirect makes 2 to shields, 2 to hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but 2nd redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: 2nd redirect causes 2 damage absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but 2nd redirect is gone (not so with ECM). 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 5, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --X17 only: redirect makes 2 damage absorbed by shields, 3 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: 2nd redirect causes 2 damage to be absorbed by shields, 4 goes to the hull (dead!). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but 2nd redirect is gone (not so with ECM). And as added fun, let’s do a Home One too, same rules apply. -4 damage, no accuracy (ECM with accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 2, 1 to shields, 1 to hull, but a redirect means all to shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but Brace is gone if used. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren Only (brace is used in this case). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5/6 Damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 3, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Brace reduces damage to 3, redirect makes 2 to shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but Brace is gone. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, 1 to shield, 2 to hull, but a redirect would mean all to shields(5) or just 1 to hull (6). --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only (Brace is used in this case). --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but Brace is gone. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: redirect makes 2 to shields, 2 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. -5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: redirect makes 2 to shields, 3 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes 5 absorbed by shields, 1 to hull. --Intel Officer only: same as no upgrades. --X17 only: Redirect makes 2 damage absorbed by shields, 4 goes to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only.
  7. Alright, we need actual calculations over here. Fortunately, I spent about 3 hours late one night calculating this in a planned, but unused, response to someone using similar arguments against using MK + X17 (Warning: lots of long evaluations): Let's do semi-average damage rolls on the strongest shield facing of each ship at mid-range (and for simplicity, an evade reroll gives -1 damage taken), say 4 damage no accuracy, 4 damage accuracy, 5 damage no accuracy, 5 damage accuracy, 6 damage no accuracy, and 6 damage accuracy, and see how each combination of upgrades affects the outcome. Note: Accuracy/Intel Officer prioritizes defense tokens in this order: Scatter, Brace, Redirect, Evade, Contain. GR75/Goz: 4, 5, 6 damage, no accuracy: Scatters every time, regardless of upgrades. With Intel Officer, scatter is now gone. 4 damage with accuracy: Evade reduces damage by 1, keeping the target alive regardless of upgrade combo. With Intel Officer, scatter is now gone. 5, 6 damage with accuracy: Target is dead regardless of upgrades. Conclusion: Intel Officer takes the cake here without accuracies, but otherwise all upgrades are useless here. CR90: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, redirect causes remaining damage to be absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Only 3 damage is absorbed by shields, 1 goes to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect causes remaining damage to be absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 4, redirect causes 3 damage to be absorbed by shields. 1 damage to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields. 1 damage to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Only 3 damage is absorbed by shields, 2 goes to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields. 1 damage to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect causes 3 damage to be absorbed by shields. 2 damage to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields. 2 damage to the hull. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Only 3 damage is absorbed by shields, 3 goes to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, shields absorb 2 damage, 1 damage to the hull. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. 5 damage with accuracy: + 1 damage to the hull, otherwise same as 4 w/accuracy. 6 damage with accuracy: + 1 damage to the hull, otherwise same as 4 w/accuracy. Conclusion: Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer is most effective in dealing more damage to the hull with rolls with no accuracies. Otherwise, with a natural accuracy roll, the upgrades have no effect. (However, 7 damage (above average) with no accuracies means a dead CR90). Neb-b: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 2, evade reroll makes it 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren Only. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: 2nd brace reduces damage to 2, evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: 2nd brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, 2nd brace reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: 2nd brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: 2nd brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: 2nd brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. Conclusion: More damage goes through with Mon Karren, Intel Officer has an easier time removing defense tokens with an accuracy, X17 is less than useless. MC30: -4 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 3, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 4, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren only: Redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect causes 4 damage to go to shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17. -6 damage, no accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 5, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above. --X17 only: evade reroll reduces it to 5, redirect makes 4 absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: X17 only. --Mon Karren only: redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17: Redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 2 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 3, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 4, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect makes all damage absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (Not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: 2nd redirect causes 4 damage absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but 2nd redirect is gone (not so with ECM). 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reroll reduces it to 5, 2nd redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --X17 only: redirect makes 4 damage absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --Mon Karren only: 2nd redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but 2nd redirect is gone. (not so with ECM) --Mon Karren + X17: 2nd redirect causes 4 damage to be absorbed by shields, 2 goes to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but 2nd redirect is gone (not so with ECM). Conclusion: Mon Karren + X17 is the clear winner with or without accuracies or Intel Officer. However, Admonition would ensure that no damage would go to the hull at the cost of defense tokens. While this might make it seem like the Mon Karren + X17 is useless versus Admonition, the Admonition would still be discarding defense tokens to prevent hull damage. So, for this case, the X17 is 6 points invested for opening up for (possible, if I’m not dying or about to die) future attacks by either the Mon Karren or another ship. (This goes out the window if Lando is involved). AFMKII: -4 damage, no accuracy (ECM with accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, Evade reduces it to 1, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -5 Damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. -6 damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 3, evade reduces it to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: Same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: Brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but brace is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields, redirect or not. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: damage absorbed by shields (redirect use or not). --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone if used. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 5 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 4, absorbed by shields (redirect use or not). --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone if used. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: Redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as Mon Karren only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + Intel Officer. 6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: evade reduces damage to 5, redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but redirect is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: redirect causes all damage to be absorbed by shields. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren only, but redirect is gone. --Mon Karren + X17: redirect causes 5 damage to be absorbed by shields, 1 to the hull. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Mon Karren + X17, but redirect is gone. Conclusion: This is where you said that the Mon Karren becomes an 8 point investment for 1 point of damage, and I see it. Here, I am no longer concerned about the X17 and Intel Officer becoming redundant to the Mon Karren, but rather the Mon Karren becoming redundant to X17 and Intel Officer, the latter of which comes out on top as a threat to the ‘best’ defense token used. X17, on the other hand, becomes more of a set up for future attacks by other ships, assuming there are other ships unactivated that will reach the AFMKII’s front arc. MC80 Liberty: -4 damage, no accuracy: --All options: brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. -5 Damage, no accuracy: --All options: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. -6 damage, no accuracy: --All options: Brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. 4 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: 2nd brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 5/6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: 2nd brace reduces it to 3, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but 2nd brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as intel officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. Conclusion: Yeah, the Liberty’s strongest shield is strong, but we can’t forget that this is a scenario specifically taking my current preferred offensive Liberty set up and going at the strongest shield. This is not taking into account positioning and maneuvering to ensure that the Liberty has a good shot at a weak shield, nor is it taking into account really lucky rolls, like 9 damage and two accuracies. Thus, in this specific scenario, X17 and Mon Karren are useless. MC80 Home One: -4 damage, no accuracy (ECM with accuracy): --No upgrades: Brace reduces damage to 2, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. -5/6 Damage, no accuracy (ECM + Accuracy): --No upgrades: brace reduces damage to 3, absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as above, but brace is gone. --X17 only: same as no upgrades. --Intel Officer + X17: same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. --Mon Karren + X17: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as Intel Officer only. 4 damage with accuracy: --All Options: absorbed by shields, redirect or not. -5 damage with accuracy: --All Options: Redirect use makes it absorbed by shields. -6 damage with accuracy: --No upgrades: redirect makes it absorbed by shields. --Intel Officer only: same as no upgrades. --X17 only: Redirect makes 5 damage absorbed by shields, 1 goes to the hull. --Intel Officer + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren only: same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + Intel Officer: Same as no upgrades. --Mon Karren + X17: same as X17 only. --Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer: Same as X17 only. Conclusion: Here yet again the Mon Karren title appears redundant to X17 and Intel Officer, and here each of those only work with or without a single Accuracy respectively (Granted an additional accuracy would make both work).
  8. Been messing around with a list with Madine, Mon Karren (upgraded not too dissimilar to ImpStarDeuces list), Admonition, and Salvation and they are a blast together (Though I may need to tweak it for activation advantage). You have my attention. Got a list? I already see what you are saying if you only have 3 activations. Fun to play but incredibly vulnerable if you lose a ship too early. Well, currently there's two. One has just three ships, while the other removes Intel Officer, ECM, and Engine Techs to add a flotilla to protect Madine and to add another activation: Fleet 1: Madine 1 Author: Arcanis161 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 389/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 143 total ship cost [ flagship ] MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Admonition ( 8 points) - Lando Callriassian ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 121 total ship cost Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points) - Salvation ( 7 points) - Spinal Armament ( 9 points) = 67 total ship cost 1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points) Fleet 2: Madine 2 Author: Arcanis161 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 388/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Lando Callriassian ( 4 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 132 total ship cost MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) - Admonition ( 8 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Advanced Projectors ( 6 points) = 81 total ship cost Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points) - Salvation ( 7 points) - Spinal Armament ( 9 points) = 67 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Jamming Field ( 2 points) = 50 total ship cost 1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
  9. Been messing around with a list with Madine, Mon Karren (upgraded not too dissimilar to ImpStarDeuces list), Admonition, and Salvation and they are a blast together (Though I may need to tweak it for activation advantage).
  10. Ok, so I ran some numbers with the various upgrade combos (4, 5, 6 damage with and without accuracies) and this is what I found: GR75/Gozanti: Intel Officer takes the cake here without accuracies, but otherwise all upgrades are useless here. CR90: As you stated, Mon Karren + X17 + Intel Officer is most effective in dealing more damage to the hull with rolls with no accuracies. Otherwise, with a natural accuracy roll, the upgrades have no effect. (However, 7 damage (above average) with no accuracies means a dead CR90). Neb-B: More damage goes through with Mon Karren, Intel Officer has an easier time removing defense tokens with an accuracy, X17 is less than useless. MC30: Mon Karren + X17 is the clear winner with or without accuracies or Intel Officer. However, Admonition would ensure that no damage would go to the hull at the cost of defense tokens. While this might make it seem like the Mon Karren + X17 is useless versus Admonition, the Admonition would still be discarding defense tokens to prevent hull damage. So, for this case, the X17 is 6 points invested for opening up for (possible, if I’m not dying or about to die) future attacks by either the Mon Karren or another ship. (This goes out the window if Lando is involved). AFMKII: This is where you said that the Mon Karren becomes an 8 point investment for 1 point of damage, and I see it. Here, I am no longer concerned about the X17 and Intel Officer becoming redundant to the Mon Karren, but rather the Mon Karren becoming redundant to X17 and Intel Officer, the latter of which comes out on top as a threat to the ‘best’ defense token used. X17, on the other hand, becomes more of a set up for future attacks by other ships, assuming there are other ships unactivated that will reach the AFMKII’s front arc. MC80 Liberty: Yeah, can't really do much without locking down both Braces and figuring out a way to flank. MC80 Home One: Here yet again the Mon Karren title appears redundant to X17 and Intel Officer, and here each of those only work with or without a single Accuracy respectively (Granted an additional accuracy would make both work). Raider: Mon Karren is only useful for large damage without an accuracy, X17 is useless, and Intel Officer can only discard the brace if an accuracy isn’t used. Raiders be fragile. GSD: Here it seems Mon Karren is 8 points for 1 damage and X17 is 6 points for 1 damage. Now, does this open the GSD/Demo up for a lot more punishment (perhaps a strike from the Salvation?), yes. But again, that follow up, or a plan for a future follow up has to be there. VSD: Intel Officer just doesn’t work well with redundant tokens without an extra accuracy. X17 does ok here, but Mon Karren again is 8 points for 1 damage if that. Interdictor: Mon Karren doesn’t seem to do anything beyond maybe letting a crit through if one is rolled. I don’t know about you, but crits are more medium value to me, not sure I’d spend 8 points for one. ISD: Exactly the same as with the Home One, Mon Karren useless and redundant. However, as I came to these conclusions I realized, I was only comparing results against fresh, undamaged ships. I change the shields to slightly damaged (IE: Targeted facing having 0-1 points of damage) and my combo shined. Thus, I have come to this conclusion: my combo is not good at killing ships. My combo is good at killing ships faster, IE: dealing more damage to fresh ships, removing their tokens, and really hurting or killing lightly hit ships when compared to removing some/all of Mon Karren, X17, and Intel Officer. What I am concerned about is whether my combo can kill ships fast enough. This will require a lot more testing, especially against stuff that it might be weak against. What I am also curious about is whether the QTT and H9 combo will do the same result faster.
  11. Test 1 versus a DeMSU was a close match but ended in a loss for the Rebels. Mon Karren never got a chance to shoot well against the Demo due to Demo's maneuvering and a Disengaged Fire Control crit, but what little shooting the Mon Karren did do made me wish it had Intel Officer again. Will come back later with a test against a Rhymerball with a ISDII.
  12. Jan + 3 is intended as a bare minimum. Of course more helps, but if your list is completely focused on ships/upgrades, then it's effective enough, as you say, to hold off mass squadrons for a turn or two.
  13. Never leave home without Jan and 3 X-Wings! There's a mean imperial anti-fighter group someone posted awhile back that I enjoy: Mauler, Fel, 1-2 TIE Advanced, and a Jumpmaster. For bombing runs as empire, I bring Rhymer, Dengar, 2 TIE Advanced and either an arbitrary amount of TIE Bombers (if I have high squadron value ships) or 3 Firesprays (low squadron value ships). For Rebels, I like B-Wings as mobile mines, moved by Independence, or pushed around with Yavaris. I really need to try a list with Yavaris and Liberty with B-Wings to push around. Once I get more GR75s, I also need to see how well Jan, 1-2 HWK 290s, and a big pile of X-Wings and Y-Wings do with BCC and Torryn.
  14. In all actuality, the Liberty build I have was inspired from this blog post: http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2016/08/armada-making-liberty-work.html I have (self) tested both lists thus far, and while the second list seems to have better staying power and activations, the "redundancy" seems to better allow the Mon Karren to deliver knockout blows. However, your comment on diminishing returns makes me curious. I'll try your suggestion (minus adding Intel Officer in the second list, I prefer a high initiative bid in this meta) and see how much of a difference there is.
  15. There is strength in redundancy in this particualr case. X17 and Mon Karren combined means that, if I acc a brace, the opponent can only redirect one point away from the facing that was hit. Thus, more damage could, potentially, go straight to the hull instead of being absorbed by more shields. And yes, the GR75 playing keep away was the exact reason why I chose Most Wanted.
  16. No Idea what to actually call this; I've got no clever names for it. The concept is to have the MC80 Liberty type and the MC30 benefit from the added agility from Madine. I've got Two fleet ideas and no idea which one to stick with. (For anyone who saw the Wave 4: Dealing with the MSU post, the second is based off of the suggestions from the responses). Fleet 1: Madine 1 Author: Arcanis161 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 389/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Intel Officer ( 7 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 143 total ship cost [ flagship ] MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Admonition ( 8 points) - Lando Callriassian ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 121 total ship cost Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points) - Salvation ( 7 points) - Spinal Armament ( 9 points) = 67 total ship cost 1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points) Fleet 2: Madine 2 Author: Arcanis161 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 388/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Minefields MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Lando Callriassian ( 4 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 132 total ship cost MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) - Admonition ( 8 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Advanced Projectors ( 6 points) = 81 total ship cost Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points) - Salvation ( 7 points) - Spinal Armament ( 9 points) = 67 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Jamming Field ( 2 points) = 50 total ship cost 1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
  17. Yes because I have 4 of each and I plan to get more. It just doesn't feel right to have 2 ISD, 2 VSD, 3 GSD, MC80 Home One, MC80 Liberty, and 2 Neb-b without having enough fighter minis to represent their full fighter compliments.
  18. In your first list you might want to consider removing the ECMs from the MC30's. So far in every game I've used MC30's, I've never felt like I needed ECMS, especially with Admonition. The second list you can probably cut the ECM's as well and maybe the Engine Techs on the MC80. Speed 4 is nice on the MC80 but not exactly needed and speed 4 on a large base is actually kind of hard to mambo correctly - you more likely to find yourself in an arc you were trying to avoid or have more of a difficult time making use of a single click speed 1 maneuver. You may also want to consider puttng Lando on the Liberty just to help survive-ability but I know how good on Admo he can be, but then again maybe Admo would be just fine being Admo? With those points you drop you could take a transport to give you some more fighter support and help your activation count if you are really worried about MSU. In the game I played, ECMS were very useful against the Mon Karren. Oh, you acc'ed one redirect and told me that I'll have to discard the other one if I use it? Well, I'll ECM the acc'ed one and use that instead. You are right that it might not be useful against other fleets through, as my Admonition in the Madine fleet never used it. Engine techs is more mobility insurance at low speeds than anything else, just something to allow me to quickly escape/rush in if necessary without having to change my base speed. (Although I'm wondering if I should just be using SpamNavTM while having Madine as my Commander). Intel Officer versus Lando. Intel Officer on my Mon Karren is a boost to my offense. Mon Karren forces the opponent to use only one defense token, and Intel Officer ensures that if the opponent uses the most effective Defense Token for that attack, that Token gets removed from play, boosting future attacks from me. However, Lando on my Liberty means greater survivability for my Liberty (although reducing the survivability with the Admonition, no longer making it the tankiest ship in the fleet). I'm not really sure which way to go on this one because it's a direct trade off of offense versus defense. @Matt Antilles: On the Advanced Projectors, they (and the Redirect tokens in general) are the reason I have X17 Turbolasers on my Mon Karren. No offense, but what do you do, in your games, when going up against someone with X17?
  19. When I play rebels, unless I have a carrier fleet, I never leave home without Jan Ors and at least three X-Wings. Haven't found a suitable cost effective squadron defense for the Empire yet.
  20. Looking on the model, on either side of the engines are two more structures that look like engines, but are not painted as such. These are also on the assemblage line indicating the ship being a two part assembly. This might be why they aren't painted; spraying the engine-glow blue at that spot might lead to unintended areas being hit as well. Edit: Arg, can't post pictures on mobile!
  21. Thanks for the input! I got another game in, this time, I used Admonition (with ECM and Lando) in my Liberty fleet as bait. It died surprisingly quick against its exact mirror and Foresight due to APTs. However, that sacrifice did give the Liberty and Salvation a chance to kill both MC30s. At the end of the game, with only the Liberty, some fighters, and a CR90 surviving, I realized that the MSU side made a mistake and assumed that it wouldn't need an achievable quick getaway after killing Admonition, and that really caused the downfall. The main issue is that after trying out Madine with the Liberty and MC30s, I wanted to make a list with a beefed up Mon Karren and a "Landmonition" with Madine at the helm. However, it's looking like the MSU might be that kind of list's weakness. Based on what I've seen, and on what you all have said (not attacking you guys, I'm grateful for the help), I may have to just toss the idea and either remove much of the upgrades, the Admonition, or the Mon Karren and add stuff to make the list much more flexible. Edit: Here's the fleets btw: MothMSU: MC30 torpedo, Mon Mothma, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT MC30 Torpedo, Foresight, Ordinance Experts, ECM, APT 3x CR90B, SW-7 3xYT-2400 Madine Fleet: MC80 Battle cruiser, Mon Karren, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Engine Techs, Leading Shots, X17 MC30 torpedo, Madine, Admonition, Lando, ECM, Ordinance Experts, APT Neb-b Support, Salvation, Spinal Turbos Jan Ors 3x X-Wings
  22. For the Empire, it's easy due to the Interdictor. But what if your fleet doesn't have one? Or you're playing rebels? This is what I've been encountering while testing the Liberty (self testing due to lack of Armada players in my area). I've been doing a pitched battle between a fleet with Madine, a decked out Liberty, Salvation, and Admonition versus a Mothma MSU with Admonition, Foresight, and 3 CR90s. Guess who's dead by turn 3. EVERY. GAME. So if I've got a fleet built around one or two beefy damage dealers, what do I do against the MSU archetype without resorting to changing the entire fleet to being a dedicated anti-MSU fleet?
  23. Love Madine so far. Really makes the Liberty nimble. There are two things I have noticed however. First, MC30s definitely took a hit from the introduction of the Interdictor, to the point where I'm not sure I'll be comfortable bringing more than one (even that will have to be the Admonition). Second, while the Liberty is OK with minimal upgrades, in order for it to get to ISD levels of killing stuff, it needs to be a point sink.
  24. Author: Arcanis161 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 388/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Opening Salvo Defense Objective: Fire Lanes Navigation Objective: Superior Positions MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 122 total ship cost [ flagship ] MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Admonition ( 8 points) - Lando Callriassian ( 4 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points) = 121 total ship cost MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points) - Ordnance Experts ( 4 points) - Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points) - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points) = 87 total ship cost 1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points) In the creeky old Starfleet Battles game, there's a ship type called the DNL, or Light-Raiding Dreadnought, it's a ship that doesn't have as much firepower as a standard dreadnought, but still has massive firepower and can go quickly behind enemy lines and hit priority targets. This ship inspired me into trying a leaner MC80 that has tremendous movement potential and still utilizes the forward firepower. Madine was a natural choice to command a ship like that, and I also wanted to try MC30s with Madine as well.
  25. Definitely like the lists. I'm glad to see that I was headed in the right direction when I was toying with Liberty ideas. As a whole, I'm excited to see how well Alexandra's fleet holds up. I realize now that her list seems to have filled holes I didn't see in my list, all by dropping from VSD-IIs to VSD-Is and swapping/adding a few upgrades and a squadron with the extra points. I'm just happy that a fleet with 2 VSDs made it to the semifinals. Kinda had an initial feeling that they would combo well. It is a little sad that it seems like the VSD-II might join the Glad-II on the "not-worth-the-extra-points" shelf though, but that's another topic already on the forum.
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