While I feel the beta was a complete wast of time for my group and I, I'm glad we were able to see what the devs had in mind before any of us wasted money pre-ordering the game.

To be frank with each iteration of the beta rules book the game got less and less exciting for me.
The major dissapointment in the last update was the proposed change to the character progression system.

The change was to try and get more freeform xp spending into the progression but these changes don´t do this.
Any purchase outside of your current school rank now contributes half of its experience value to your current school rank.
Rings are no longer included in school curriculums.
Experience to complete school ranks is going to be increased significantly.
These changes do not increase freeform xp spending. It is quiet the opposite now you get rings as mandatory non curiculum xp tax
and need tos pend even more xp in your curriculum tables to get to the next rank.
Since getting to the next rank is the goal of the chracter development this system is in direct opposition to the freeform xp spending
that people wanted.
But there is a very easy way to fix this. Just let go of the curriculum tables and stay with the xp values for the different ranks.
Keep the xp costs for the different aspects of character development and let the players choose freely where they want to spend their
xp.  You might want to add some school unqiue techniques that reflect the uniqueness of the teaching of the individual school but
the currciulum tables clearly hurt more than they help.
 

To be frank with each iteration of the beta rules book the game got less and less exciting for me.
The major dissapointment in the last update was the proposed change to the character progression system.

The change was to try and get more freeform xp spending into the progression but these changes don´t do this.
Any purchase outside of your current school rank now contributes half of its experience value to your current school rank.
Rings are no longer included in school curriculums.
Experience to complete school ranks is going to be increased significantly.
These changes do not increase freeform xp spending. It is quiet the opposite now you get rings as mandatory non curiculum xp tax
and need tos pend even more xp in your curriculum tables to get to the next rank.
Since getting to the next rank is the goal of the chracter development this system is in direct opposition to the freeform xp spending
that people wanted.
But there is a very easy way to fix this. Just let go of the curriculum tables and stay with the xp values for the different ranks.
Keep the xp costs for the different aspects of character development and let the players choose freely where they want to spend their
xp.  You might want to add some school unqiue techniques that reflect the uniqueness of the teaching of the individual school but
the currciulum tables clearly hurt more than they help.
 

To be frank with each iteration of the beta rules book the game got less and less exciting for me.
The major dissapointment in the last update was the proposed change to the character progression system.

The change was to try and get more freeform xp spending into the progression but these changes don´t do this.
Any purchase outside of your current school rank now contributes half of its experience value to your current school rank.
Rings are no longer included in school curriculums.
Experience to complete school ranks is going to be increased significantly.
These changes do not increase freeform xp spending. It is quiet the opposite now you get rings as mandatory non curiculum xp tax
and need tos pend even more xp in your curriculum tables to get to the next rank.
Since getting to the next rank is the goal of the chracter development this system is in direct opposition to the freeform xp spending
that people wanted.
But there is a very easy way to fix this. Just let go of the curriculum tables and stay with the xp values for the different ranks.
Keep the xp costs for the different aspects of character development and let the players choose freely where they want to spend their
xp.  You might want to add some school unqiue techniques that reflect the uniqueness of the teaching of the individual school but
the currciulum tables clearly hurt more than they help.
 

The implementation works though a change in thought an generation. So the education of the youth is basicly the
basis of the change caus eas they climb up and get into the position the former old guard had they can change the
policies and make the difference. Thats why education plays an important part if you want to change anything in
our society
Change is a graudal and long term thing. It does not happen over night and requires hard work. Yes currently the system works like you describe it but
a cooperative system can work if enough people want to make it happen and work towards realizing it. Also there are companies who actually change their
systems toward it because, exspecially in the IT business, it reduces the stress of your workforce and gets better ressults and less burnouts.
Anyway I think that was enough so thank you for the discussion.

Going to take more then one generation IMHO.
But yes I think we have hijacked this thread long enough.
Your welcome and thank you.

Is it a problem when two people who study management can't agree on a negotiation about... negotiation ?

Thats plain out wrong. The best possible outcome for a negoiation is one that enables you not only to get what you want but also
ensures you that shoudl the need arise you can get what you want again.
Win/win situations are also not everyone gets what they want it is a compromise of 2 or more parties based on what they all can agree
to give to the others.
On this premise a win/win situation is far more preferable because it not only serves the short term goal in getting what you want
but also is serving the long term goal in ensureing that the party, you made the deal with, will engage into negoiations with you in
the future.
On contrast if you go for a win lose situation you might get what you want now but will not get anything from the party  in the future.
Win/win situations therefore are the best deal and should be awared with more xp than the one that only gets you the short term goal.
That it is not an uncommon practice does not say that it is a good one. It creates a gap between the players as they have to choose whom to give the xp to and also is a reason for frustration as people can get the wrong idea about what people think of their actions in the game, for exampel missunderstanding that people give xp to others as my character is useless/ has done nothing that worth it etc. It is also fairer to just treat all people equally and if 1 person is qualified to get the xp give them out to everyone.
 

Fair, let me re-state. I don't like the direction it's going with minions, adversaries, and other minutia. I like when everything follows the same set of rules and consistency is maintained. I don't want everyone to have to know 3-4 different sets of rules to play the game and to have to inform my players what 'type' of enemy they're competing against each time. It seems like a large portion of the rules are built around it so it's unlikely to change, but it's not something I'm a fan of.

To be fair in a world where magic is real it is totaly possible that even the animals can have skills like meditate assome of them could for example have developed conciousness and/or a felling for the world and elements surrounding them.
There is a whole spiritual realm of animals that havs all kinds of concious/semi concious animals in it. So while it is odd froma  real life point of view themeditating Lotus boar fits perfectly into the L5r world.

Yes that is the most common case. Sometimes I go with I call enough raises that I still have a chane of 70% or more to hit the TN and go with that but I agree in general it is a pretty unsatisfactory system because you don´t have the option to get raises in after you get the relevant information.
Thats btw why I still love the Bayushi courtier from 3rd edition because it made the whole game exp for me so much better and rewarded to actuall get good stats.

It is quiet the opposite in my opinion. The other schools have to be buffed to match the akodo.
Buffing is the far better version as it leads to morepowerfull techniques for everyone instead and with that comes
more fun for everybody independent of the choice of school.

It is quiet the opposite in my opinion. The other schools have to be buffed to match the akodo.
Buffing is the far better version as it leads to morepowerfull techniques for everyone instead and with that comes
more fun for everybody independent of the choice of school.

It is quiet the opposite in my opinion. The other schools have to be buffed to match the akodo.
Buffing is the far better version as it leads to morepowerfull techniques for everyone instead and with that comes
more fun for everybody independent of the choice of school.

I think he did not refer to Shadowrun dicepools. ^^

Independent from the fact how much the combat matters in this game, the rules for it and every otehr conflict that can come up should still be crisp and good. Just because it might matter less is not a reason to write up bad rules for it. 

That said I don´t really see a problem with the movement as in "The land of the magical Samurai" called Rokugan it is not that much of a deal to move like that.
You also can do the reasonable thing and just ignore the messurements given as example and just say rangeband 5 is range 6 and thats it so when you move 2 range bands you move a range of 2 but than
stop there and don´t translate it into  meter.

I think he did not refer to Shadowrun dicepools. ^^

I think he did not refer to Shadowrun dicepools. ^^

I think he did not refer to Shadowrun dicepools. ^^

I hope you are aware that this thing doesn't exist...

I don´t say I like it but thats how it is at the moment. I mean thats why we discuss this here to change obvious exploits into a functional rule.

While I don´t think 4th edition is all peachy and not even a remotely good RPG system it had some thinsg that I prefer.
So lets list these things
- lack of school advancement tables
- better school techniques for Doji, Bayushi, Shiba
- a better overconfident disadvantage
- a clean character creation
- starting xp
that are some thing I liked and think 5th ed is missing out on.

While I don´t think 4th edition is all peachy and not even a remotely good RPG system it had some thinsg that I prefer.
So lets list these things
- lack of school advancement tables
- better school techniques for Doji, Bayushi, Shiba
- a better overconfident disadvantage
- a clean character creation
- starting xp
that are some thing I liked and think 5th ed is missing out on.

While I don´t think 4th edition is all peachy and not even a remotely good RPG system it had some thinsg that I prefer.
So lets list these things
- lack of school advancement tables
- better school techniques for Doji, Bayushi, Shiba
- a better overconfident disadvantage
- a clean character creation
- starting xp
that are some thing I liked and think 5th ed is missing out on.

You mean until someone uses water smithing to give the tetsubo the razor edged quality because that can be done with the current smithing rules.