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  1. That is all well and good if your are against scatter heroes, of which I am aware that this thread is about. However when list building, you do not know for certain if that will be the case. Hence I'd avoid A-Wings with Jamming Fields (except Sharra) or you'll be hurting your own squadrons against many other enemy squadron archetypes. Imagine for example your poor A-Wings inside the Jamming field trying to blink away damage from a Biggs escort ball, one at a time. Now you may in this case fly the flotilla away from your A-wings, but then you need to invest in other tech to still allow it to squad command from longer range. Plus I presume Toryn would be on the Jamming Flotilla, so you'd lose her if you did fly it away. Lastly Mauler and Soontir have a great time inside Jamming fields, as they do auto damage and their survivability goes up.
  2. Personally, I don't like the A-Wing-Jamming Field combination. You lose 33% of your offensive power, and a further 50% off your counter attacks. I prefer Jamming Fields with a light screen of X-wings, or oddly enough Z-Headhunters. Z's because they are fragile, and that obstructed attack is often the difference between 3 damage and 2. Plus they don't lose too much offensively as with their 2x re-rolls they roll 4 dice (instead of 5), usually still with misses, thus re-rolls are nearly as good as an extra attack.
  3. You can also rename a ship +/- its corresponding ship card. Off memory, right click the ship/card to open its menu, then click on its name to start editing it. Do this after you have finished spawning ships/shields otherwise it seems to make this code for this stop working. Thus rename the card after you spawn the ship, then rename the ship after you deploy it and have added its shields.
  4. Screed and Torpedo Hammerheads. Imagine this; Assault Pelta, Shields to maximum, Concussion missiles (69pts) 4x T.F.Antilles Torp Hammerheads, boarding engineers, Concussion missiles (48pts each) 139pts remaining At close range each Hammerhead puts out 5 near-guaranteed damage (plus braced only to 4), with C.F dial can double arc for a further 4 guaranteed damage from the side. Plus can flip 2 damage cards to crits. Defensively can spread damage and restore that damage through the pelta. Other ideas; Tua on a Liberty with ECM. Needa and Mon Mothma on MC80s Needa and TRC on MC80s (Ackbar Defiance, or Mon Karren SW-7) Toryn Farr with Sloan/Blue dice fighters
  5. AA turret?
  6. I'm not sure where this hostility came from. Fact is, I've never actually faced a Avenger with Boarding troopers. I don't get to play often, but like theory-mongering. If I did want to beat one, I'm sure I'd run my favourite list of Madine CR90s with engine techs. If I end in range 1, I that's on me. Plus I'd probably be dead anyway. Also not sure what style of threads you'd want the forum's to be filled with. This was intended as a discussion around which upgrades, play style and/or deployment strategy can potentially sure up your anti-Avenger defences, particularly for lists that appear to be vulnerable against it. I suggested a few upgrades which may often be overlooked wondering if they have a new purpose. I personally like reading about other people's ideas to counter a problem, and I thank people for their input.
  7. I think a lot of people missed the point here. I'm not trying to think up a list that will counter the Avenger with Boarding Troopers, as if I have some kind of Armada-related omniscience and know I'll be facing nothing but them at a future tournament. I'm thinking about cost-efficient options to add to a list that will generally struggle against Avenger ones, but doesn't also cripple it against non-Avenger fleets. In this way, ICBs are useful against many ships/upgrades. The other point about ICB is that you are wasting the ISD's commands while delaying the combo. Without the combo you are laughing with ECM. Every turn you delay it is another 6-8 damage Akbar puts onto the ISD. To those suggesting to outmanoeuvre it, some ships simply lack that ability, ie the Home One. Engine techs help, but it can't run forever from a speed 3 JJ ISD. Now with Tractor Beams this may actually be possible. Meanwhile Tractor Beams, while underrated can be used against other lists also, such as slowing down Demo to keep it in your kill zone. My OP covered this. The general idea is ICB remove tokens, slicers/Cham remove [change] dials. Comms may give more tokens, but as long as the ICB ship activated after the Comms ship that isn't an issue. Only Hondo and Thrawn guarantee a squad token/dial at the start of the ship phase, and I don't expect every list to have these 2. A question to those who run Avenger BT. How do you plan to trigger it? Do you simply bank a token turn 1 then use it when you need it, meanwhile never stacking another squadron command dial. How will your play style change if against a ICB MC80 that can potentially remove your precious token? Do you now mix in another squadron dial? Now what if that MC80 has Tractor Beams too, now you need Navigation dials as well or you will be outran. What if you see slicers? You most likely have a Comms net too, but now you have to activate it before the ISD, unless you have 1st-last activation advantage, which is unlikely.
  8. There is not doubt in my mind that Avenger and Boarding Troopers have together the most synergy in any upgrade cards. This extreme amount of synergy is pushing this combination into overpowered territory. Obviously the best way to counter this strategy is to stay out of close range. Most ships flying with a certain degree of paranoia can do this. However what about the big, slow ships? What about Home One, Victory, Interdictor, and possibly Profundity? Engine Techs may help, but I'd expect a well flow speed 3 ISD to catch up by the end of turn 6 and dump its payload. Example problem is the common Akbar Defiance, your 200pts tank will cop a 1 round damage burst of 8 damage without defence tokens. If double arced it may be KO'ed from full. With bombers it may need to discard all defence tokens just to limp through the round (Akbar lists generally don't carry may fighters). A potential counter I have thought up (and I'm sure I'm not the 1st, but have not seen it mentioned anywhere) works around denying squad tokens. Step 1: Ion Cannon Batteries: Your big ship with at least 3 blue dice runs the Ion Cannons and hopefully have 2 or more chances to burn the stored squad token/s. You get to choose which token too. Further options; Defiance, Quad Battery Turrets or Torryn for more blue dice rolls, DTT for red dice insurance as no leading shots, Disposable Capacitors for extra chance at long range, Screed for crit insurance. Step 2: Slicer Tools/Cham Syndulla. Then Slicer tools or Cham swoops in to deny a squad dial. Cham needs to swoop in the turn before, generally needing player 1 to follow-up with 1st activation, but shuts it down for 3 turns/the game- thus could do this a turn in advance. Slicers can work the turn prior, provided the ISD has moved, thus the dial you change is the one for the next turn. Flotillas also do well as black dice ISD lack accuracy results. Additional thoughts; All three upgrades are useful against any list. The loss of leading shots is big though. Even the removal of 1 squad token will hamper many plans, as dials are pre-stacked. May result in loss of other commands like Nav or Repair. Example build; Akbar Defiance Mk 2.0; Command Cruiser (instead of assault), Raymus [or alternative], Engine Techs, Ion Cannon Batteries, ECM, Tractor Beams. A GR-75 with Slicer tools, another with Torryn/Comms. 166pts left over. With C.F dial and Defiance, that is 5 blue dice with 2 re-rolls. Ion Cannon Batteries and Tractor beams adds another level of protection, does the ISD get slowed out of range, or forgo squad dials for Nav dials, meanwhile not getting in repairs? Ideally you could bait their biggest ship in close, deny their combo, slow their speed and deny their repair. Counters to this counter: Thrawn and Hondo. Anyone have any other ideas to counter Avenger's Boarding Troopers. Anyone tried something like this? Edited; realised I was quoting Concentrate Fire commands to activate boarding troopers not Squadron commands. Fixed
  9. Very simple solution. Play Imperials yourself and let him play Rebels. Variety is more fun anyway.
  10. My [optimistic] prediction is that at some point we will get a new campaign for some epic-type of play, akin to X-wing, complete with a SSD. Included would be new ship titles rather then new squads. The campaign might be linked scenarios more scripted the the previous campaign, but still with persistent fleets and bonuses and penalties depending on the outcomes of battles. Rebels doing rebellious things to impede the Empire and expand their arsenal, and the Empire generally defending assets and striking back. The plot could revolve around the construction of a SSD, with Sabotage missions, resource acquiring missions, etc. Success or failure helps determine the final load-out of the SSD, among other things. The finale would be the completion of the SSD, with a rebel group desperate to destroy it, paralleling Endor on a smaller scale. Even better would be if the campaign was done as a Legacy style game, with the unfolding plots and objectives revealed to certain parties over time. Anyway, I can dream...
  11. I doubt it as it'll blur the lines between the Home One, Liberty and MC-75. I am now hoping for an MC80 Flagship Retrofit, which is [slightly] cheaper then the others (to fit more allied ships in the list), with the fleet command upgrade slot. Cheaper as same as command MC80 but 3 squadron, 4 blue/2 red sides, single blue anti-squadron. IAfitting home for Home One title.
  12. I wonder if the HH are the better artillery here. Sure only 1 black dice at long range, but C.F for a second, OE for re-rolls and T.F Organa for more re-rolls, finally a C.F token banked for an emergency. Just food for thought. Most ships will simply evade your crit, which is why I suppose you have intel officers on your ships. I'm not convinced such a list can work often, but I'm sure it would be fun when it does. What Rebels need is an upgrade to aid crit fishing, like screed. ?Science team (Support Team): Remove a dice and change another to a face with a critical.
  13. I'm surprised that the liberty is referred to as the worst ship in the game. I don't hate the Quad Turbolaser Cannons on the Battle Cruiser. With 5 red dice, you have a approx. 50% chance of rolling a red accuracy, before re-rolls. This means you can often pop flotilla at long range, which changes how opponents fly against you. I would suggest including spinals instead of QBT as you will want to go speed 2 and 3, plus spinals would maximize red dice. The alternative, which I prefer particularly on a Dodonna ship is the combo of XX-9 and XI7. Much cheaper and great at drilling. The MC30s can grab XI7 too for more drilling action. Lando or Blissex are great on an MC80 Liberty too. Comms net would be a welcome addition to feed those Nav tokens. Being able to go speed 4 on your main ships will help against bomber lists. The aces only really need to stall for 1-2 turns. To me, solar corona and Quad Turbolaser Cannons are a bad combo.
  14. My 2 cents, although mostly just theory crafting. Most obvious problem with this fleet is a big weakness to fighters. These 2 large ships will get eaten alive, particularly if you plan on going speed 1 and 2 as you stated. Second problem I see is the potential lack of synergy with the commander and upgrade cards. Remember that using Leia means you can not use regular tokens. And not using Leia on any turn is a huge waste of points given she is only really affecting 2 ships. For instance, with engine techs, this means you need to use a nav dial, in which case Leia doesn't add anything except letting you go from speed 1 to 3 or visa versa. Yet going speed 3 directly inhibits your QBT. The alternative way to activate the engine techs is to spend a nav token, but this means you are blocking Leia for a turn. Garm or Madine would work better. Nav Teams is in a similar boat, although it acts like a mini-madine at speed 2 and 3 and thus is decent, actually pretty good at these speeds. However it does nothing at our 'optimal' speed 1, and again Garm might be better. Alternatively if you plan on spamming Nav dials, Madine might work better instead of nav teams and Leia. Don't put XI7 on Mon Karren. There has been many a debate on this, and the bottom line is: XI7 is an expensive upgrade for not much gain. Or keep XI7 and drop Mon Karren. I prefer Gunnery teams on the Battle Cruiser. Longer range means wider threat area and extra black anti-squadron means a better front attack vs squadrons if you prefer to (or need to) use your second attack this way. Comms Nets. Leia can not use tokens. Flight Controllers, expensive for only 3 ships per turn, and forces use of squad dials, which given your squads won't be achieving all that much you are better off using another command. Also your flotilla would be better suited to commanding the squads and Han and Rogue thus can command himself Jamming Field, nice idea to keep your tiny screen alive, but hard countered by intel as will backfire boosting their survivability. Suggestions: Number 1 is get officers on your MC80s. The Liasons are great with Leia, as it means you can spend a token you can use anyway to pull the command you want. A bargain at 3 points each. Lando and Walex are also great options. Consider removing QBT and Leading shots. Replace QBT with DTT. Removing QBT frees your ships up to moving speeds 2 and 3, this makes Nav teams and Engine techs much more versatile, while also improving surivability. DTT means you can correct poor red or blue dice results, Torryn corrects poor blue results. C.F dials with Leia also give another re-roll should you need it. 4 blue dice plus 1 or 2 re-rolls means you may want a blue crit effect. Change Han and the VCXs to more efficient fighters, like Zs or As. Actually forget Z's, just A's. Because A's are faster, thus can keep up with speed 3, and use blue dice and blue counter dice for maximum Torryn efficiency. Consider the Liberty title, with or without flight controllers. Remove Jamming fields. Change opening salvo to most wanted. No question there. May need to review other objectives also if changing play-style from low speed to high speed and removing strategic. Save points by trimming gunnery teams, comms net, either Mon Karen or XI7 and flight controllers on a ship that isn't Liberty. Bright hope can protect Torryn, while Quantum Storm can help reposition Torryn to keep in range of the MC80s. Something like this: http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=132949&key=5f2ba8f40f9f75bbfabca1d41e56dac0 13 points left for bid, upgrades- Gunnery team, Ion cannons, Flight controllers, Repair crew, another A-wing, upgrading to Combat Flotilla (for the blue anti-squadron, with Torryn re-rolls), etc. Objectives could change, but picked Most wanted for obvious reasons, Capture VIP, for 2nd turn pick-up, which will be hard to kill going speed 3+1, and Solar Corona to fix the likely activation disadvantage, plus the MC80s can swing wide into the Corona and fight coming away from it. Liberty's hate accuracy, so win-win.
  15. They have their pros and cons. Regarding ISD-I vs ISD-K and ISD-II vs ISD-C: ISD I: Pros: Turbolaser slot; for X17, XX-9, H9 and HTT which all help in a high damage, low accuracy output ship. 4 squadron with 2 offensive retro and weapons slot make it a great carrier. Cons: No ordnance for close range specialisation. No standard defensive retro. Blue dice for leading shots in all hull zones. ISD-II: Pros: Native defensive retro, greater close and medium range front arc. Greater side arc long range. Ion cannon slot. Better carrier. Medium range anti-squadron Cons: +8 pts, worse front long range, no fleet command, no double turbolaser slots Without having played the new ships, they all look viable to me.