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MalusCalibur

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  1. MalusCalibur

    Ello 3x

    For a ship with 3 attack dice like the T-70, Cluster Missiles really arn't doing anything for you since the bonus relies on your opponents ships being close together, you can't reliably mod both the shots, and can't use them at the only range band where they would have an inherent advantage over said primary. I also think that Ferrosphere Paint is excessive here, especially given that lock-based alpha strikes are a little less common. With the saved points from those, and dropping the Black Squadron Aces to Red Experts (or even rookies), you could try and get an A-Wing as a fourth ship. Or, you could instead use the points to upgrade the other two X's to some of the named pilots for more of an 'aces' style list.
  2. MalusCalibur

    How to get the TIE/LN in the mix

    The TIE swarm archetype isn't seen as much, to my mind, for two reasons: it had a pretty hard counter in Trajectory Simulated bombs and, more importantly, it's really difficult to fly to success (particularly over the course of a long event) as there's so many more dials to account for and not much room for error with how explodey they can be. With bomb-flinging being so much more expensive now, you might start to see a bit of a resurgence among those willing to put in the time to get good at it (Personally I'm not!), and Iden can really help deal with their other big weakness - getting obliterated immediately by alpha strikes and ordnance.
  3. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    1) They will certainly matter once the charges run out, which with the right placement could well happen in the first round. ****, with ideal placement, the optimum route for the shuttles to spring their trap could cross as many as three, which would cost them their action at best and their shot at worst. 2) Of course it still matters. They won't always be set up facing to the side, against the back line, at the exact same place relative to where the shuttles go. It's not possible to be that mathematically precise with the Upsilons every time on the table. 3) Then how does them setting up at In6 matter? Is the only variable at play here their horizontal position? And again, I very much doubt the shuttle player is going to get the exact, pinpoint deployment, particularly relative to the enemy ships, correct every single time. And what if they come up against a list such as the examples I've given of generics? What if they're up against something that is unlikely to be killed by their initial two shots? Whatever the mods they have are, that's still a maximum of eight damage assuming perfect attack dice and perfectly failed defence rolls in both cases, which is not a guarantee against many targets. In short, what if the alpha strike fails to achieve a win condition immediately? Regardless of how slow it can be made, the trickle of damage against them will still happen (1 dice + reinforce is not enough to stop it, and they'll never get evade tokens again after the first rush) and after that first joust it is they who will struggle to keep arcs on target.
  4. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    Then perhaps, as I suggested, you and I have nothing to discuss here. I have tried to keep the matter open and to submit questions to promote thinking of solutions to the problem, but at every turn you seem determined to be snippy. I've never directly said that you were wrong in your position, I've only ever asked for backing and explanation - which you eventually gave but grudgingly, and in the case of the '1-hard and 5-straight' example, only in response to one specific shuttle deployment and set of opening moves which could be very different depending on obstacle placement and non-shuttle player deployment. I don't expect you to go through every possibility as that would be ludicrous, but to at least acknowledge them rather than claiming your one example as cast-iron proof of the impossibility of avoiding both shuttles every game, every time, is not asking too much, and certainly your abrasive attitude isn't needed at all. Either way, I'm done trying. If I am so irritating to you then both our time is better spent discussing the matter with others rather than each other. To the matter at hand, I still feel like generics may well be the key here, and that is what I would experiment with against the shuttles should I face them - engaging them at moderate range early, and being numerous/resilient (or both) enough to weather the initial storm relatively intact. After that I imagine it's a matter of breaking past them, which I expect is a lot easier after that first engagement, and with multiple ships to attempt it. Once you are behind them, a single green die and reinforce can only prevent so much damage, and there is every possibility that you force them to lose actions by bumping each other, using the many red moves on their dial, or overlapping obstacles once their Collision Detector charges have run out.
  5. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    Thank you, that is a lot more helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time to go through it all like that. I wouldn't expect you to go through every possible example, so this is more of a rhetorical/discussion-promoting question, but is there no setup possible for the example you gave that leaves potential 'outs' for the Imperial player? The shuttles having overlapping arcs does make the overall area covered narrower, so it seems like it might be plausible. Though to be fair, the example you gave seems an unlikely one - Whisper and Soontir as the only ships in a list seems like setting oneself up for failure in the first place! In any case, it certainly does seem as if certain ships are going to really struggle with this shuttle rush, which I have conceded as the case. However, it does seem like the list has a definitive hard counter in Resistance Han - and while I agree with you that 'counterbuilding' is not really a valid solution to a gameplay problem, it does strike me that such a complete counter (as opposed to just a more tricky matchup) will curb the popularity of the 'Dorm Storm' considerably, leaving it to be more the skew or gimmick list I imagined it to be. That isn't getting into other potential hard counters, either - certainly Poe (with the Black One title if not a bid) can easily escape the trap and likely has enough points/capability behind him to ensure the following fight isn't a total uphill struggle. Again, this obviously isn't an ideal scenario and I had hoped that the points adjustment would make the perfect assembly of all the pieces in play here impossible, but while such total hard counters do exist we can hope that the Dorm Storm doesn't catch on and break the game in the way something like Triple Jumpmasters or Ghost/Fenn did. Thinking on this further, will it perhaps promote more use of larger lists, comprised of generic pilots? Something like a TIE swarm, or generic T-70's, or 3X2Y (just a couple of examples) would be far less concerned with losing one ship - and for something like a T-70 or Y-Wing with a ton of health, even two fully modded 4-dice shots arn't guaranteed to remove it in one go (short of perfect results on all dice involved), and even if they do lose a ship it is a far smaller portion of their overall points and firepower that isn't as difficult to recover from. Four T-70's with Heavy Laser Cannons spring to mind also; tough enough to be unlikely to die in one go, and a lot of firepower (those shuttles arn't going to be avoiding the bullseyes) to throw back at them to even up the score - and once again, after that initial joust the shuttles become much weaker offensively and will have a much more difficult time lining up shots, particularly with more than one.
  6. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    All that's been explained is the mechanical reason it happens (Dormitz+Tracking). The diagrams were not especially useful in explaining the point or making at all clear the apparent mathematics that make avoiding the initial rush impossible. The first didn't really show much of anything and the second simply showed token stacks that could have been explained verbally. Other than that, all I've thus far been told is that I'm just wrong and that it's self evident...but it's not. If you arn't willing to defend your conclusion with something more than a few vague images and a reference to a blog that explains painfully little about the details of how this apparently always works, only that it does, then why should I just accept it? I am yet to hear why it is apparently not possible to, if not avoid both the lead shuttles arcs, then at least avoid one and reduce the other to a much weaker shot at Range 3? I've repeatedly asked why it is subsequently impossible to avoid the shuttles chasing you despite their awkward position, offset initiatives, and lack of offensive dice modifications that match the levels of the initial round. These questions seem like they'd have reasonable answers that don't require a Youtube presentation or similar to explain, and I'd fully accept that I am wrong about this if some meaningful answers can be provided. Thus far though, all you have done is told me I'm wrong, refuse to try to explain why, and treat me with scorn. In which case, we clearly have nothing further to say to each other. Fair enough, yes. I can see how that would happen to certain ships, but is it actually impossible to avoid both shuttles having good opening shots on their chosen target? Is there no way to position yourself such that you can dodge one, mitigate the other? Their arcs are wide, for sure, but are still finite - surely there have to be blind spots in whatever advance they make that can be exploited? As I mentioned earlier, the shuttle list certainly does seem like it preys on certain things - anything slow moving or non-agile is definitely going to struggle to hit those blind spots. What remains to be seen if enough things exist that can avoid the trap, knowing it's coming, that the shuttles are a skew list that falls from popularity relatively fast rather than an inescapable terror list that ends up having to be dealt with through rules or points changes. My instincts lean toward the former.
  7. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    So you claim to have had it explained to you (presumably verbally) such that it completely validates the conclusion, you won't take the time or effort to do the same for me, yet you still hold your point of view as correct and chastise me for disagreeing with it? Alright then. That's much more what I was asking for, thank you. 1) At deployment they are In6, yes. The rest of the game, they are moving at very low initiative (the highest being 4), as well as all at different initiatives, making coordinating their movements that much more difficult since they must always move in a strict order. 2) Each one can only do that twice (and only two of the ships, post points update). If one happens to cross two obstacles in a single move, it will burn both charges. After that, they will really struggle to maneuver anywhere and still get actions for the aforementioned Reinforce or to ever mod their shots. 3) Forward distance, perhaps - but not sideways. Any time one or more of them is executing a 3-bank, they increase the risk of burning their CD charges and/or positioning their arc in a way that leaves blind spots. 4)If they're in the middle, they can't catch everything unless it is all deployed together in one place. Are there many lists that fundamentally fall apart if split up? I've not debated the mathematical possibility (or not) of not being shot at all by the shuttles - what is harder to achieve would be a fully modded shot from both lead shuttles closer than range 3, as the area in which these criteria are not all met is much larger. If you can get the targeted ship out of arc of even one of the two shuttles, and at range 3 of the other one, the damage caused won't be anywhere near as meaningful. After that first attack, the shuttles will have a much tougher time getting all the guns on target again, since they'll get in each others' way and can only turn physically so much to the side, and will never have the same level of modification again, since the dial is prohibitive and co-ordinate just trades one action for another - and again, it's all happening at relatively low initiative so the targeting plans it makes are telegraphed. Ok, very fair point. I wasn't being rhetorical when I asked this question. I'd say my point was less that one had to bring In6 pilots with a bid to counter the shuttles, and more just identifying something that the shuttle list would have a problem with. It very much strikes me as a 'skew' list in that way, which traditionally have not been all that successful overall. True - but surely the biggest issue is avoiding some of the initial rush? Since that's where the tokens are most stacked and the arcs most apty placed? Certainly it's going to be monumentally more difficult there with the more limited options - doubly so now that Supernatural Vader is so harshly dead. True, though again it does call back to my earlier point about its nature as a skew list - it devours certain lists but gets completely trounced by others. I suppose it remains to be seen if there is enough of the latter to keep it from becoming too dominant. That's very possible. I have just always been irked by this kind of thing before, where an unexpected list crops up and all and sundry cry bloody murder without a lot to back it up besides 'well I lost to it' or 'it just *is* OP/NPE/etc'. Sometimes they're right (triple Jumps), but mostly I'd say they were not (Dash/Roark is a great example of a skew list like this). And of course it is entirely possible that, on the table, things will be very different than from an analytical point of view - but there are so many apparent weak points in this setup and rush that it is hard to see it as all-dominating or unstoppable. I suppose the best thing to hope for is that I never have to play against it? I avoid larger events anyway, and no one locally owns three Batshuttles...
  8. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    This is just more anecdotal confirmations though, rather than any evidence. Just saying 'oh yeah this list is OP/terrifying/NPE/what have you' is not enough. How is it guaranteeing shots from both lead Upsilons? How is it pursuing anything that does get past it (which just about every IN6 in the game will since they'll have freedom to deploy outside of where the shuttles can trap them)? How is it so much different from the exact same list in 1st ed? Like I said before, the 'Dorm Storm' is not a new concept. So what is so different now, such that it has changed from a silly gimmick list to a practically unbeatable horror? How are those opening shots not being mitigated by moving such that only one shuttle has a shot, possibly at range 3? I want tangible answers, not just reiterations of the apparent conclusion.
  9. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what he told you, then, rather than being deliberately vague? How the Upsilons can guarantee two full modded shots on whatever they want despite moving first, telegraphing their target, and having both a very limited dial and a finite area of firing arcs that can be moved out of? And how they handle anything else with IN6 and a bid that stretched to more than a single point?
  10. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    Yes. It shows, quite rightly, that if you joust the Upsilons you will come off worse. It doesn't at all mention how you can blunt that alpha joust by reducing the quality and number of those opening shots, where all the tokens will be present, nor go into any detail as to how the Upsilons are going to catch anything after that initial rush.
  11. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    And what was the first image showing? A mat with no obstacles, no indication of what steps lead to the various ship positions, which ship images belonged to which turns etc? Neither of them has provided anything that shows me why this list is apparently so horrifying when the only thing that's realistically changed for it since 1st ed is Tavson. Again, I havn't played against it since then, so perhaps that's what it takes - but thus far all it seems to have is a potent alpha joust that is far from guaranteed to do significant damage.
  12. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    I'm fully aware of how it works, mechanically. What I don't understand is why it works. Looking at those examples...I still don't see it. There's a huge area where one could escape to (in the latter) where only one of the shuttles is shooting, at Range 3. Again, I feel like most ships could easily flee the initial engagement and force the Upsilons to use their terrible dial and limited Collision Detector charges to try and chase them - and no turn after that initial one is going to have the same level of tokens to use. The Upsilons have low Initiative and no post-dial reposition capability, so a lot of ships are going to be able to dodge their arcs. That's not even getting started on IN6 ships that, against a list with a single point as a bid, can still deploy after the shuttles (ensuring they can't possibly be caught by the alpha joust), and move after them too. Again, as strong as the initial joust is for the shuttles, I can't see how it could ever be consistently successful unless the opponent is flying towards them. I've flown against this exact list archetype in 1st Ed, and I cannot understand what has apparently changed so fundamentally between then and now that a gimmick list that might catch out unsuspecting players is suddenly this meta terror that can't be avoided.
  13. MalusCalibur

    Illegal Squad at Phoenix / Trip Upsilon (no relation)

    Maybe I'm missing something here....but how exactly are the two lead Upsilons both getting guaranteed shots on that first round? Yes, they deploy at IN6, but unless you deploy all of your ships in one place they can't possibly cover all of them, and surely if you don't fly towards them you can escape and move around them? They'll be telegraphing their target by locking at their actual Initiative, so anything decently fast and/or agile would surely be able to get away (out of range/arc entirely of at least one of them), and then the onus is on a trio of lumbering shuttles to chase them, each only able to ignore obstacles twice and with no capacity to turn directly around? Seems to me that the only way the list works is if you joust it. But I havn't played against the 'Dorm Storm' since 1st ed so perhaps things are different now.
  14. MalusCalibur

    Poe Dameron and Debris Gambit

    Others have put it more eloquently, but this is pretty clear cut. You have to have already selected the red evade provided by Debris Gambit to check the condition for treating it as white, ergo you cannot 'Poe The Limit' into said evade, since it is not a white action. It's similar to the misconception that arose around Engine Upgrade and Expert Handling - they do not 'upgrade' the existing red Boost/Barrel Roll action into a white one, but rather add a white version of those actions if the condition (having a red version) is met. Cards like these have been worded very specifically for this reason, and need to be properly read before qualifying their interactions with other mechanics, rather than just assuming a blanket 'red action becomes white action'.
  15. MalusCalibur

    Is there a miniature quality drop coming with 2.0?

    The TIE/FO expansion I purchased recently was of very disappointing quality - as well as the panels both being bent such that they form a gentle 'V' instead of being parallel, the black paint is very shiny, making the model look cheap and tacky, the white on the panels is not as bright, and the work on the cockpit is much sloppier, when compared with all of my 1.0 versions. When you also consider the far blander packaging and the cheaper, flimsier looking dials of 2.0, it does feel as if there has been a cutback on quality completely at odds with the price increases on ships - but then again this is the only 2.0 expansion (as opposed to conversion kit) that I've bought so far. I'm expecting a couple for Christmas so will have to see how they compare.
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