heliodorus04
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Posts posted by heliodorus04
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I'm a noob.
I've started catching up here, but some history needs explaining to me.
What was the Phantom nerf? I have heard from tournament players that the Phantom is 'the most difficult ship to use correctly in the game" (I suppose that was back when it was the newest thing). What toned it down?'
Why is Soonter Fel so amazeballs? The number of times I whiff on 3-evade dice is legendary. I describe 3-evade dice as "Somwhere between Christmas and being buried alive" in its outcomes. I like Carnor Jax better, but I can't keep him alive anyway
What is the new tournament rule for Large Ships and how is it different than before? And why does it matter?
I've been playing the game for about 9 months - why are the ships coming out so fast! I can't keep up with the meta... I hate that, and I'd hate to see this game take the worst of Games Workshop's practices and make it a "expand your collection or lose" situation...
heychadwick and Punning Pundit reacted to this -
So if I take Deathrain, should I minimize his cost by minimize missiles/torpedoes? That's where I REALLY struggle. 9 Hit points isn't a lot when you can't evade anything and you get no elite pilot talent.
If I take Redline, do I skip bombs?
What do you guys think of trying to get the Punisher an extra action per round via Squad Leader?
Is there another option to Howlrunner/Squad Leader/Experimental Interface that serves the same or similar purpose?
I don't have a K-Wing yet, so I don't have Conner Nets, so I don't really understand conner nets (Ionization, I guess). The Arc in which they drop doesn't impress me on a Punisher (not that I know to whits of a thing). Why take bombs that require you to use your one Action? That I don't understand at all. Actions are precious.
How many points should I cap out a Punisher, in terms of Upgrades?
What's the difference in effect between Advanced Sensors and Enhanced Scopes?
(These same kinds of questions apply to me with bombers; they are both ships that I don't understand the intended role, and especially advantages.)
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I'm a new enough player that basic maneuvering is down, and I understand some synergies.
I am decent at maneuvering swarms, and I know the Empire ship list well.
I do not play competitively, and I don't plan to. But there are some in the community, and I would ideally like to be able to be competitive, even if I lose.
I was never able to figure out how to compliment a TIE Bomber, but I had some fun with 5-ship lists that rather sucked on the competitive.
I see in the Bomber/Punisher a hard to manuever ship that cannot afford to lose its action, and cannot count on evading anything.
So how do you protect it?
And how do you build it to be the right balance of cost/potency/survivability?
And what do you put with it?
Here is my list theory:
Deathrain (blah blah weapons/torpedoes are up for discussion)
1x Proton bomb
1x Ion bomb
Advanced Sensors
Howlrunner
Squad Leader
Experimental Interface
Black Squadron Pilot
Wingman
Academy Pilot
I take bombs that you do not need an action to use.
I took advanced sensors to not lose my action.
I took Howlrunner to give the Punisher an extra action (in case it wasn't in range for TL during its movement)
I took Black Squadron Wingman to help Howlrunner
I'm completely open on ordinance (bombs included) and open to discussion on mods.
I hope the accompaniment ships aren't a bad choice. I think I know how to fly those and use their synergies.
Thanks for any help in the discussion.
DraconPyrothayan reacted to this -
Do two TIE/FOs stack up to 1 new T70 X-Wing? Generic on generic?
Isn't that the first comparison one should make?
They are indeed new faction ships.
Both get an extra hit point, but shield > hull: advantage FO
Both get improved dials and it's difficult to say which is superior. I give the advantage in maneuverability to the TIE/FOs because you get 2 for 1, and that's superior.
Target Lock versus Boost: Hands down, Boos on a 6 hit point ship > Target Lock on a 2-attack ship. On a 2-attack TIE, you are always better to take a focus than a Target Lock. The multi-nature of Focus is better on a low-offense ship. In other words, Target Lock is completely wasted on all TIE/FOs. That's a bummer. Advantage T70.
Cost is hard to compare: 2 ships for 30 versus 1 ship for 24... Again this probably goes to the FO.
So on a head to head basis, they're as comparable (I assert) as the original 2xTIE Academy Pilot versus Rookie X-Wing.
On to the point of whether it's the worst 2-attack ship in the game...
It can't be considered worse than an Academy Pilot on a direct cost comparison. For 3 more points you get a shield (awesome), the target lock ability (socks on Christmas day), and the S-Loop turns which change pretty much everything where maneuver and blocking are concerned. That is an excellent return on 3 points.
It is clearly a more survivable ship than the original TIE. It is clearly a more maneuverable ship as well.
So how can it be worse than the original TIE?
It can only be 'worse' when you assign it to a particular role. If you want it to be in the "cheapest ship point for point" it's not.
Where it comes across poorly is A) when you trie to get it to do exactly what the old TIEs did (because the you're wasting 3 points per ship)
B) When you compare named TIE Fighter pilots to generic FO pilots.
I consider the rolling of 3 evade dice to be an experience "Somewhere between Christmas and being buried alive." Whiffing on 3 evade dice is much more survivable now. The shield save against a critical hit will be a big difference maker in games.
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Mine does not do anything for customers, similar to yours.
Here's how I look at it.
Does the store do anything to offset the price of MSRP vs Online? If so then you may be getting the same value even though you're playing more.
For example my LGS charges full MSRP. But he has a number of tables, he has demo kits that people can use to try a game. He has terrain we can use for our games. He hosts regular tournaments and helps me run a league there.
All in all I feel that he adds enough value to my experience that paying full price is worth it.
But on the other hand, if your store does nothing to add value to your gaming, and charges full retail then you shouldn't feel bad about looking for a better price somewhere else.
The store in question is also a coffee shop (while being a game store - it's a very successful business model). Not only does he charge full price for game stuff, he over-charges for beverages and does not allow outside food or drink in the store. And he's a bit of a curmudgeon, to be polite. He does things for Pathfinder Society, but not for X-Wing. I would rather play at home than in his store (even though he has tables).
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So I have not bought a single ship from anywhere other than my local game store. I don't have the biggest collection but I feel as though it is substantial. My store offers no deals for bulk and nothing for preorders. Monthly tournaments are cheap but just increased in price and I just was curious how many others pay full list price for their minis. Not going to rant or rave as I really do believe in supporting local stores but when I'm dropping $200-300 a wave that maybe 5% off MSRP would be reasonable. Again not attacking or raving just curious if most stores are unwilling to budge or if you guys get deals on bulk. Thanks!
Mine does not do anything for customers, similar to yours. I stopped buying his over-priced products.
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I'm certainly in no way good enough to run a 2-ship list.
I'm a noob. I have very little exposure to the array of shenanigans to be used against me.
I just like Defenders, and I painted one quite nicely.
My LGS has open game nights and while some people play tournament practice, but I only get to play about twice a month. It takes a long time to learn this way.
Thanks again everyone.
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All of this is super helpful.
I don't know what "jousting" means, other than apparently it means going straight at the enemy.
I play a lot of games solo at the kitchen table to get a feel for movement, spacial reasoning, etc. It's weird, but I do it.
I have played the Rexler Brath defender fairly extensively, armed with Heavy Laser Cannon and Predator (believe it or not I came up with that by myself, since I don't read forums before this thread).
To pair with him, I ran Howlrunner (w/Swarm Tactics) and 2x Academy Pilots.
I've already figured out that I should try to force an opponent to string out/separate his force if I'm outnumbered.
The only reason I chose to put Ion Cannons is basically for Range 3 only. It denies the defender the extra evade die. And as I said, IF I get a hit on something like a B-Wing or an A-Wing at Range 3, I set myself up to close in for a kill with the primary weapons on the following turn. I thought that would be a good option.
Dark Curse as the "foil" for a third ship or Backstabber appeal to me. Dark Curse can protect himself if he's the only shot for an enemy, and Backstabber can behave like you describe a TIE Interceptor - flanks and rear.
Push the limit on Rexler Brath enables some degree of firing arc jumping while also giving him the ability to set up Vessery. My thought was that two Defenders each with a target lock can kill something relatively well each turn. If Brath has a Target Lock, Vessery does by virtual default (assuming range and arc, etc.). But this means pairing the two defenders relatively closely together. Maybe that's bad. If things work out great, Brath can use a focus to flip some damage face-up.
I see the value in Predator, too, though. I had the Twin Ion Engine Mk.II on both Vessery & Brath (making PTL a bit easier to recover from).
Is the basic suggestion that I ditch 1 named Defender (keep Brath/HLC, lose Vessery/Ion cannons), upgrade the other half of the list?
Or is the basic suggestion to use 2 cheap Defenders without cannons so that I can enhance Carnor Jax?
(or make a list of each, eh?)
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I dislike the requirement to purchase cards and ships in combined packs when cards could easily be sold separately, and at a margin which would be profitable for FFG.
I don't buy into that program - I have zero S&V ships for this reason.
Short of an act of law, this trend in gaming is going to continue: pay to play (at tournaments.)
I don't play at tournaments. When I need to use a card that I do not own, I either A) borrow it from a friend, or B) use a post-it note with the name, then refer to it in the multitude of list builders (which show the rules for any card in game). I feel that any attempt to change this "bundling for greater profit" requires a serious campaign. I'm all for it, but unless we find a way to publically shame the companies that do it to us until media and/or government take notice, we obey or avoid.
Too many gamers are sheep in this regard: "That's outrageous marketing/pricing, but okay and I'll just complain"
Why do we pay $6 for a coke at a sporting event? Because we will buy them at that price. Water is all you need and you can bring it with you...
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I haven't posted much here. I am a casual player with little experience. I'm trying to build a list that can take on 'all-comers.' Not tournament-level players, necessarily, but conceptually, the idea is similar. I want to build a 2-Defender list, because I really like Defenders, and I think they are viable.
I have two lists featuring two defenders.
List 1 is centered around Carnor Jax, and as a result the Defenders are Initiative 1.
2 Defenders each kitted identically
Delta Squadron, Ion Cannon, Twin Ion Engine Mk 2
Total Cost per ship: 34
Carnor Jax Interceptor
Push the Limit
Auto-Thrusters (Possibly Shield instead).
List 2 is centered around twin Defenders at Initiative 8, and a somewhat random TIE Fighter to round out the remaining points and create a 3-ship list.
Both Defenders feature Ion Cannons and Twin Ion Engine Mk 2s again.
Rexler Brath with Push the Limit
Colonel Vessery with Veteran Instincts (initiative 8 thereafter)
A 16-point TIE Fighter - Backstabber, Dark Curse, or a Black Squadron with something.
I like Ion Cannons on Defenders for Range 3 combat. If I hit something at Range 3 with the Ion Cannon, I think I'll have a chance at setting up a good firing phase the next turn.
I have a VERY hard time keeping Carnor Jax A) alive; and B) at Range 1 to take advantage of his ability.
I have an easier time making trouble with the Ion Cannons if I use the high-initiative list. Plus named pilots are fun.
Any opinions on either list?
Thanks.
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"Howlrunner" is of course the correct answer to that question. Taking TIE Fighters from mostly annoying to properly lethal since the very start of the game, and still going strong.
Poor gal rarely sees the end of a match, but will have had a lasting impact by then... Until she goes down, she not only gives the re-rolls, but also basically functions like an Imperial Biggs - any ship able to shoot at her, will do so!
As a casual player, Howlrunner is my most often used 'support ship' (with a shield upgrade & swarm tactics).
48 points for 3 ships (2x Academy Pilots) is a heck of a balance for any other 52 points you can build.
Where the Decimator is concerned, switch to Howlrunner w Draw Their Fire, and a hull upgrade; plus Black Squadron TIE with the same two upgrades. I don't know if it's competetive, but it's fun.
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Really, do you play for fun? Haven't taken a game too seriously since Regionals, I got burned out from competitive mode but I love X-Wing so much that I could never play another competitive event again and still be happy. I still buy all of the new stuff, I still play to win, I still enjoy generic T-65 X-Wings, I still like playing and playing against turrets (even without Autothrusters), I still like Brobots, I still like TIE Swarm, I still like 4K'ing my Defenders to victory... I think you get the idea.
One thing I have noticed in the recent weeks is that there is a rampant increase of "Fix-it" and "New Core Set is doing/going to _____" threads that are popping up. This leads me to assume that a good amount of people are either not having fun with the game or are only looking at the competitive/tournament value of the game, and I've participated a bit in those as well.
I'm just wondering if we're all still having fun with X-Wing. I mean, jousting values and calculating points cost is nice and stuff, but when are you gonna dust off and bust out the X-Wings and TIE Bombers and StarVipers for fun again and not worry about MoV or the brokenness of whatever card cramping your style? Because lately it seems that most of what I'm hearing is grief about something not being playable when in reality everything is playable when it comes to having fun!
It is important for me, as a matter of my personal mental health, to avoid competetive gaming. I went too far (for me personally) with Warhammer & 40K competetively, and the way I focused on perceived 'imbalances' as the game developed sapped all enjoyment from me, and also turned me into a bit of a (REDACTED).
It is in fact important for me to avoid people who only play with a mindset that every game they play is 'practice for the next tournament' (perfect lists, latest ships, no interest in relaxing into one of my "flying circus" type lists. They remind me of the old me. They can bring out the old me.
I have spent the last 6 months playing X-Wing at home at my kitchen table, mostly by myself as a learning and therapeutic exercise, because I needed to avoid public play for personal reasons. This is an interesting thread for me, because I've never been to these forums before. Friendly, non-competetive play is important to me. It is the most important thing I look for in a gaming community. Hopefully I can play publically in my area again against people who will bring casual 'just for fun' lists.
I actually came here to figure out how to keep a Punisher from always going down like the Hindenburg, but I'll take that discussion elsewhere.
I want to learn to use a Punisher
in X-Wing Squad Lists
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Very helpful explanation. Thank you very much.
K-Wing is next on my list (it's so sexy I touch myself, sorry, TMI)
Accompaniment:
As before, a TIE swarm is something I'm comfortable with, but how does that Howlrunner config look for its points?
And since I'm trying to keep this subject alive and learn as much as I can while I have its attention:
I have recently learned how to configure the 24-point "Doom-Shuttle" and I really want to learn to play with it.
Is it something that can compliment this list, or do you think, as a relative newb (with very little large-ship handling experience) should I stick with something more cost-effective.
In general, I don't know how many points to put into certain ships, like the Defender, the Decimator, and now the Punisher. A noob like me can kit out one of those with no idea where to stop. (Thus why the Doom-Shuttle is so interesting to me - how novel a concept?)
If I have a 'mini-swarm' (let's call it 3, maybe 4 TIE pilots as points allow), and I have a, what would you call it, the "egg in one basket" ship, where do you decide to stop on points in the sense of losing one ship that turns out to lose you the game because it was worth too many points for what it achieved ('achieved' being a broad and varied term that we shouldn't get into here)?