Whoops, that's where I thought I was when I wrote it. Wrong window.

I've played maybe 10 games in the year I've owned X-Wing models; most of those have been in the last month. I started with an ambition to play Empire ships, but... Rolling 3 evade dice is something that makes me crazy. And not in a 'oh isn't that a misery we all share' kind of way - it did and does make me want to quit playing. And I do not like the sportsmanship I devolve into when I whiff on 3-dice. I honestly would not have wanted to play me when I get like that. So stepping back from the noose I strung from the banister, I've decided to try some lists that A) focus on shields versus agility, and B) put the offense right out front for me. The thought is that statistically evade dice hate my humanity, apparently I can't fly well or with tactical awareness, and also that most players around here are going 'fat-large.' They too are inexperienced; I obviously can't beat them, so I'm going to try joining them. My first list designed along these lines is a K-Wing centered list, because I think K-Wings are perhaps the sexiest looking ship in the game. Add a B-Wing. And finish it off with an X-Wing. Miranda Doni TLT Lando Calrissian (because I wan't to channel the Klumps, if you know the reference) Keyan Farlander PTL B-Wing/E2 Jan Ors Garven Dreis R2 Astro At worst, it should be interesting and last longer than the 2 shooting phases of my last 2 games. (Seriously, that happened)

No. And I'm a newb so let me see if I get my sequence of events right At the point where an AC ship rolls dice: Dice are rolled 1) Defender can force attacker to re-roll dice 2) Attacker can re-roll any dice (exception: a die may only be re-rolled once per attack) 3) Defender modifies attacker's dice. 4) Attacker modifies his own dice. So at step 3, your defender can do whatever the heck he wants to your dice, including making you re-roll them. It is at this stage where your defender will modify one of your die into a focus that cannot be re-rolled. At step 4, you take your dice, whatever they are, mock them pitilessly, remove them from the board and tell your opponent that he has two hits to roll evade dice against. Clear and accurate, I hope.

Yeah, and then my brain went "plus add Wired!" D'oh!

Thanks everyone. So Juno Eclipse with Stay on Target becomes quite mobile, and versatile in movement. I keep coming up with newbie ideas like "Juno Eclipse with Stay on Target and Intimidation" and then the realist notes that you can't have both... (Green A-wings can!)

So in the example of a 2-bank left with Navigator: You could not change the 2-bank left into a 2-turn left, is that correct? I don't think I've understood 'bank' and 'turn' to be specific terminology (which is my error).

Navigator says "you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same bearing" Stay on Target "you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed" I don't understand the difference.

Got it. Thanks.

Can you explain this a bit? I'm not sure I understand. Does a 3 which Juno wishes to "extend by 1" become a 4-straight?

There's a huge difference between stopping playing a game altogether and refusing to play an individual because you don't like your chances against their list. Because people might very well want to practise these kinds of builds, both playing with them and against them, to get a better understanding of how they work, what their weaknesses are, how they can be expected to fly etc. And because where would such an attitude end, Hobo? With your own, personal preferences? You'll only play against 100 point lists that you personally deem "acceptable" to play against? New Guy: "Hi, I'm new here. Want a game? I've got a 4 X TLT Y-Wing list." Hobojebus: "No, I don't want to play against that." New Guy: "Er... OK... I've got Han Solo and Corran Horn?" Hobojebus: "No, I don't want to play against that." New Guy: "Er... well I've only brought what I was planning to play with... I guess I could mix them up and go Y-Wing, E-Wing and an Outer Rim Smuggler?" Hobojebus: "Oh, go on then. I'm playing BBBBX, by the way." At the end of the day there is nothing inherently wrong, unreasonable or unsportsmanlike about fielding a 4 x TLT Y-Wing list - or ANY competitive list, for that matter - outside of a competitive environment. It's a perfectly valid 100 point list, and not even a particularly powerful one for that matter. But if someone is going to sulk about facing it to the point they refuse to play, then chances are they're not going to be a particularly pleasant opponent. I didn't say anything about Han & Corran; I didn't say I would be rude. I don't play tournament-competetive lists. It's my rule. I have PTSD and a social anxiety disorder. It's hard enough for me to get out of my house to play a game in public. it's harder still to lose because everyone else is understandably better than I by virtue of time and experience. But to show up and play against a cruise control pew-pew list is only going to make me angry at the guy on the other side of the table who (as I view the universe) is only there to get a victory in the least thoughtful and challenging way possible. I appreciate the references to what kind of person I am. Reminds me of the Games Workshop community. You know it's a BS list. I've already heard the people who played at Regionals say it's an overpowered list that is going to spread across tournaments like a grassfire in August. Maybe it won't win tournaments, but it's going to throw off the 'meta' and everyone is going to have to build a list that can compete with a 4Y-TLT, because it will be ubiquitous. That's the definition of imbalance to me - it forces everyone to play a certain way.

Yeah. I understand Mathematics. The language of the universe. You should learn it. Plus I've been a game player since 1979.

Thanks for that last bit. I did not realize that.

I don't know if I'm doing this correctly or not: When something like Flechette Torpedoes hit a target, I always use the ship's original Hull value as the measure that determines whether a hit by the torpedoes causes stress. I use the same measure where Stealth Device and Proton Rockets, which add damage based on agility. What's the 'actual' rule with each of these?

What happens when Juno Eclipse does the following: 1) A K-Turn? May we presume the pilot can increase or decrease the range by 1? 2) A 3-bank turn of any type? Can that be extended somehow into a "4-bank" a maneuver that does not exist? 3) A hard 2-bank? Can the pilot reduce the speed to 1, a maneuver not on the ship's dial? If so, is there any consequence to executing a maneuver not on one's dial?

I'm a newb and the best advice I was given about buying new ships is this: You can never go wrong with any ship in the game. They all are good. So buy the ships you want to play with (especially for a newb).

I'm a new player. If another new player shows up across the table with a 4x TLT list, I won't play against that list. You can say it's great for new players, but I'm a new player trying to develop skill. It's difficult enough to play time and again against ships whose abilities I don't understand; but to play another newbie who is just pew-pewing while flying on what amounts to cruise control, that's an insult I'm not going to add to the multitude of injuries I suffer from experienced players already. It's a stupid list and yes, it's overpowered. It's all in the probabilities, which can't be wished away. The probabilities skew this list beyond the normal distribution for 3-attack dice ships, making it the most reliable 2-hit, 3-dice attack in the game. Its effective firepower is not hurt by bumping other ships because it's in a turret, and 3-dice (2x) doesn't rely on actions nearly as much as other 3-dice attacks. Then add 8 hit points per ship. I just throw my hands up in the air at how vastly behind I just got left by the releases in this game. No one is looking out for the new guy at all in this. Little timmy isn't going to stand a chance when TFA is released. Unless he runs 4x TLT Y-Wings, which he will, because his mother loves him.

On a related note: Does anyone have any reference information on other ways to fit it to support pillars (i.e., huge ship pegs)? I am decidedly unhappy with the fitting points between ship and peg with all huge ships, but particularly the aft section of the Raider. Because it is recessed, it's a lot more difficult to seat properly, and I am certain many players will have pegs that will break and be difficult or impossible to repair. I'm just really in need of a way to make my investment in this ship stable and safe. The way it shipped (as will all huge ships) it's likely to break.

Nicely done. I barfed into my TIE Pilot mask... thanks a lot!

Alright, I leave in about an hour for game night. Here is the final version I intend to fly, based on your feedback and my comfort level with my abilities. Also, if you hadn't realized, I confused deathrain with redline. I'm using the missile boat, 2x Target Lock of Redline, no bombs. Redline -37 Total points Extra Munitions (2) Flechette Torpedoes (2) Cluster Missiles (4) Fire Control System (2) 4-Ship Howlrunner swarm, upgraded to improve Howlrunner's survivability against focus fire/whiff dice. Howlrunner 22 total points Determination (1) Hull Upgrade (3) Black Squadron Pilot 15 total points Draw Their Fire (1) 2x Obisidan Squadron Pilots (as I understand, Init 3 will beat a cheap Y-wing TLT). 100 Total Points

Okay, tomorrow is the "open X-Wing night" at my FLGS. I have a Rexler Brath & Howlrunner w/ 2-Academy Pilot swarm that I am good with. I could play it and see what my opponent shows up with (and I avoid mirror matches just cuz). And after all of this discussion, I have come up with this list featuring Redline, Howlrunner (Squad Leader version) and two TIE/FOs; one is PS1, the other is PS4 (Black Squadron Equivalent). First, my ideology: Redline for his missile capability and higher PS. A Howlrunner swarm is probably the first thing I learned to fly and use. I go to it a lot because it rounds out any experiment with an arm on my list that I know I can wield relatively effectively. TIE FOs can block, and use the S-Loop. Now the list: Redline 27 Extra Munitions 2 Flechette Torpedoes 2 Cluster Missiles 4 Fire Control System 2 Twin Ion Engine Mk II (1 pt) Proton bombs (yeah, I'm sure you'll talk me out of these...) Howlrunner 18 Squad Leader 2 Experimental Interface 23 Epsilon Pilot (PS1) 15 Omega Squadron Pilot (PS4) 17 Wingman 2 Okay, I already know the Proton Bombs are a bad idea given what I've learned in this discussion. From the meta stand point (I'm not even sure what 'meta' means, but wtf): I committed to 5 point bombs and forgot about it. As I rounded out the list (w/ the bombs) I found myself with 3 points extra, so I added the Twin Ion Mk II and the Flechette torpedoes. Easier stress removal is helpful and cheap in the Mk II engine. Range 3 Flechettes might be useful, and they are very inexpensive. I guess if we assume the bomb is the primary bad idea I have somewhere between 5 and 8 points to redesign the basic outlay of upgrades and/or pilot (pilot skills).

One more question from the neophyte trying to learn what is noise and what is tactics: There is a very loud thread elsewhere in which someone is describing the standard X-Wing as a ship that is 'easy' to 1-shot and that the X-Wing is now one a poor choice (to paraphrase politely). I can't understand that notion: How can a 5-hit ship be 1-shot. If the X-Wing can be 1-shot, then can't anything with 5 or fewer HP? (TIE Advanced, E-Wing, etc.) I'm of the opinion that no ship is terrible (but most of my lists are HA!)

Very many thanks to Blade Merc - that is some really helpful context. I have a related question on the system upgrade "Sensor Jammer." I understand the need for autothrusters on interceptors and why they're not useful on a 1-evade ship. I've not heard much discussion on the Sensor Jammer, which leads me to believe it's not very useful for it's cost. My thought on it is that it simply forces the shooter to retain a focus when its target is equipped with a sensor jammer, thus obviating it. Any feedback on that?

I don't own S&V, but I own a Decimator. There is a named ship, I can't remember if it's an M3A or a Star Viper, but it enables the pilot to steal an evade or focus token from an enemy ship and use it as its own. Then add in the Hawk (and a proxy TLT may be a great addition to it) with Moldy Crow and a weapons engineer, and you have a lot of focus to give away and spend. I hate that ship that steals focus & evade. It's a killer. Oh, and Mangler Cannon. Decimators that get crits can really lose potency (unless equipped with Determination, in which case it's not as ugly a ship as before). Also, put Autothrusters on your important ships. Good luck, and have fun.

But what does one gain in advantage from spending 25-30 points on a Punisher with only 1 ordinance weapon? Why not fly a more defensible ship that will likely come with a better wheel, agility, albeit fewer hit points. Even if you have Extra Munitions it's still two shots, and if you're only taking 1 ordinance weapon, you're leaving a lot to two attack dice at various ranges and for many turns. And as for the action efficiency with a Fire Control System, I view that as having two problems that need solving still. 1) It doesn't help the Punisher fire ordinance in its Alpha Strike if you were not in range to TL after you moved the Punisher. 2) If the Punisher kills the ship it intended to get a TL on, then again you've lost the Punisher's ability to set up a TL ordinance shot the next turn. Thus to me it does indeed need a squad leader monkey as a safety measure. (At least to me, since I can run a decent Howlrunner swarm effectively).

I am focused on Empire, and I have every empire ship (except Huge) and every rebel ship except YT2400 and K-Wing. One thing I ponder is whether to stick with a list I have some success with and/or like over and over or whether to mix it up while I figure out 'things'. I'm partial to the first idea of using a list I'm pretty confident in. I love Defenders and swarms, and have custom painted "Howlrunner" and "Rexler Brath" for no other reason than I use them a lot and love the ships. I have a Decimator list that I'm not sure is a) fun, and b) fair to players without much experience; I also have a Rexler Brath/Howlrunner-mini swarm that is my best list. But my Brath weighs in at 48 points, and that seems like a lot, especially when I whiff on 3-defense dice (it hurts, it really really hurts). (and let's leave TLTs out of this entirely please! - too much drama) But I have a Firespray and never play it, I barely play Interceptors (which I'm sure surprises people, see below, and a certain E-Wing pilot...); I have a shuttle and I never played it, and I just learned about the 24-point Doom Shuttle and that seems like Dukes of Hazard play which appeals to me greatly as fun gag once in a while. On the other side, Rebel, I have this 5-ship "Etahn A'baht's flying circus list" that is a hoot to play, but again, not necessarily fair to newbies. But I don't think I learn as much from playing that - it's a cluster**** of critical hits. I only adapted that list because A'baht single-handedly forced me to stop flying Swarms in favor of Defenders (and he needs to be outlawed for Epic play, seriously, it's just pop-pop-pop-pop of the TIE fighters...) Anyway, I'm rambling, it's late and I may or may not be inebriated. I left Games Workshop and came immediately to X-Wing and it's a wonderful game that I'm happy to support and would like to become part of the 'community.' The abundance of new releases and entirely new mechanics (S&V faction, conner nets, cluster mines, ion bombs, etc. S-Loops and Talon whatevers) has really made it way more difficult to learn to play and learn to be decent.