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Andre82

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Posts posted by Andre82

  1. Posted

    "This is why you can resolve cards like Point-Defense Reroute and Dominator against each squadron you attack, not just one."

     

    you can dominate squadrons?

     

    I'VE BEEN SO BLIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    don't think it's worth it, but it'd be fun to ruin all your shields on a fighter screen :P

    That is per squadron right? You can't give up 2 shields and then attack 4 fighters at 3 dice right?

  3. Posted

    First, Armada is a bit different from most miniatures games. It is going to bring people into the hobby, the cost to support the players isn't that high, the stock isn't going to sit on the shelves. Our owner is a bit peeved about the constricted supply for stores versus what the big online and big box stores were allocated. He still plans to support it though because it's huge.

    So, many games have lots of different items or SKUs. Take Warmachine or Flames of War or WH. To stock the games costs lots of money and has big risks. The LGS cannot afford, or at least won't want, to support players buying blisters to add to their online purchased armies. It just doesn't work. All too many stores quit because the players start showing up with new armies bought elsewhere. Of course, the players think they are supporting the store buying something every week, or only ordering online because the store didn't stock the one blister out of two hundred available. The math doesn't work. That $10,000 on the wall has to produce about $3,000 in profit just to break even - every quarter.

    The industry needs to figure out how to support the FLGS that supports the players while also keeping up volumes through other channels. Unfortunately, they aren't creative enough.

     

    Like I said you are right about having more SKU's meaning having a greater risk of not having that ONE item in stock that forces your costumer to look else were, also possibly preventing add on sales you might have gotten. However having all the SKU's means now you are stuck with ones that don't sell and you have to make more sales just to cover that.

    So do you have any ideas on how they could be more creative?   

  4. Posted

    Why is the bit about MSRP a strawman argument?

    It is simply not my argument. Kinda like if I said "You should check the side effects of medicine to see if it is worth the risk" And he argued I hated all medicine.

    I don't mind MSRP as a concept or as a simple pricing guide. I do however think SOME MSRP's are incorrect or noncompetitive with the market and should be considered as only suggestions. 

     

    and that sounds about right to me too. Or, more importantly, how would a store know what that equilibrium price is for their market and how elastic that price might be?

    Very much not easy but if you know there is a lot of costumer interest in the product and you fail ot sell any... mistakes were probably made.

    I would say any situation were amazon had the item for $20 cheaper, might be worth further consideration. 

     

     

    It seems to me that MSRP provides the stores with an excuse to not bother thinking about it too hard, and use their time in another productive capacity. Also, it does allow the stores to have their de facto cartel. Furthermore, if the product is not all that price elastic, then it really shouldn't matter all that much.

     

    As you've argued, I do think that when you get to the bigger products (e.g. the Core Set) the product becomes more price elastic, and people do go for the online retailers. But once they've crossed the threshold, they come back to the stores for the expansions. In that case, there may be an argument for stores starting to price compete on the core sets. However, maybe they know that they have a fiercely loyal customer base who will spend that $30 extra, and doing so is worth the lost sales, given their margin multiplied by sets sold. It's also a clear way for them to identify who their loyal customers are.

     

    Given all of this, as well as a side conversation that I had with one store manager, I don't get the sense that they expect to sell all that many core sets, but expect to make their money off the expansions. It may also be that their cost for the core set is closer to MSRP than it is for the expansions, because of all the stuff that the core set includes. However, I don't know what their cost for the Core is.

     

    That is fair and sounds about right.

     

    Mikael Hasselstein reacted to this

  5. Posted

    And before people start accusing me of ignoring your post?

    Look, I could get everything I need I line for cheaper than in a store, anyone can. One can buy food, clothes, entertainment, etc online. So why don't people do just that?

    The issue is You are considering MSRP as a rip off, its not. MSRP is what people should sell things for to make the most profits in a brick-and mortar environment.

    Here is a great link that explains the difference between online vs brick and motar.

    http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1111/comparing-online-and-in-store-prices.aspx

    One of my favorite quotes from that article I just links

    "Online merchandise doesn't have to be displayed in an expensive storefront and often doesn't need to be held in a warehouse - it can be shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer."

    Do remember that I am not condemning people for buying online, I am just defending their right to sell at MSRP and why they do such

    Getting food and clothes at a store has many advantages to online. Amazon has been searching for a way to compete with clothes right now as it knows there is big money in it. For now even if the prices are cheaper many of those items still have greater value in a store where they can be inspected, purchased quickly, or tried on first.

    Also that bit about MSRP is a strawman argument fallacy... please don't make those.

  6. Posted

    Also, MSRP is absolutely not designed to make the most profits in a brick and mortar environment.  It limits what a brick and mortar environment can do....  Anytime a store wants to go over that MSRP, it does so at the risk of alienating customers because they can see what the product "should" sell for according to the company that manufactured it.  Thus brick and mortar stores get squeezed between what the distributor (sometimes the company sometimes a middleman) sells to the store at and what they can charge at the upper end.

     

    This is pretty much true.

    Also this is a good bit I liked answering why MRSP's can be high.

    "I set pricing for an electronics company, and while guns aren't electronics, the same principles apply.

    A better question would be "Would you rather have a high MSRP which gets discounted, or have low MSRPs that get marked up because the thin margin isn't enough for the dealer?"

    As a retail shop you can't just blindly trust in the MSRP. The number one consideration any retailer must consider about pricing a product, even before operation costs is what will the market bear: meaning, what will people actually pay for such a product.

    Amazon is competition that most brick and mortor stores are not used to but can't be ignored. I will pay 14.99 for a X-wing about 2-3 bucks more then amazon. I will pay 19.99 for a Armada fighter pack, about 5 bucks more. I will not pay 99.99 for a Starter set when amazon can fetch it for 69.99. that is $30 bucks for crying out load!

     

  8. Posted

    Lately theres been alot of talk about the importance of the "initiative bid", and rightly so... Objectives can play a huge part in Armada matches. There has also been some talk of ignoring the initiative bid and simply building a fleet as a "take all comers" in regards to objectives... but this struck me as quite a challenge, as, after all, there are 12 objectives in all.

     

    This was when I realized that really, you need not build a fleet to play 12 objectives, merely 4. As a player is forced to take one of each "color" objective, a savvy fleet builder, may, in theory, build a fleet geared toward all 4 objectives of a certain color. This guarantees said savvy player that, no matter what, one of these four objectives will appear in their opponent's objective choices, thus allowing them to choose an objective they are comfortable with.

    Does anyone see any merit to this approach, or is it merely a pipe dream? I haven't had the time to devote alot of tinkering to this concept... it seems the blue "mobility" objectives may be easiest to gear a list toward... Intel Sweep would be easy to configure, as would Superior Positions, and possibly even Dangerous Territory... it was Minefields that frustrated me most... its hard to really build a fleet to prepare for it, although I am sure some leverage can be applied. It seems like experience is the best weapon for playing that particular objective.

     

    Any thoughts?

    That is pretty clever. However are those 4 (say gunnery) objectives so much alike that you can build a fleet that works with them all?

    DerErlkoenig reacted to this

  9. Posted

    They get away with it because too many are fooled into thinking that msrp=community and that without one you can't have the other.

    Yah msrp is not the same as community, A well run shop that is stable and friendly however helps with community. Sometimes keeping that shop well run and stable means you charge msrp. I am cool with that. But when that msrp is $30 more then what you pay on amazon it looks more like community = exploitation of your costumer base or at lest bad management imo.

  10. Posted

    That's exactly it! The lack of people wanting to buy there means they have no choice. That is usually due to bad management or workers, lack of events, etc.

    Usually maybe. However other factors could also effect sales like the MSRP being so high that even loyal customers can't justify buying from you.

     

     

    The $21 is not profit though. That's the money needed to pay employ, to give oneself a wage, to pay rent, electricity, expanding stock, etc.

    Same would also be true of those $60 X-Box games. The retailer only gets about $12 gross from selling a brand new non discounted game. That $12 is also needed to pay employs, to give oneself a wage, to pay rent, electricity, expanding stock, etc.

     

     

    They actually make more money selling at full price. It is not likely that a core set will stick on a shelf for long considering

    1) it is star wars

    2) it is FFG

    3) the game is REALLY good.

    So full price is the better way to go.

    Yes full price is the way to go... if it moves. If it is not selling you are not making any money to pay employs, to give oneself a wage, to pay rent, electricity, expanding stock, etc.

    Your argument hinges on how likely it is to sell at full price as opposed to losing the sale to amazon. 

    Remember my shop has not soled a single core set and even lost a sale to Bob in the back with a Amazon Prime account. Now you can blame this on poor management, a disloyal customer base or whatever, but if you are not selling any and you know people want them... maybe you should consider other options.

    Also amusingly my LGS sold 80% of all the wave one ships same day, but can't sell a starter set.

     

     

    Andre, I don't like bullying you. In fact I try not to but you have a tendency to ignore important points. There is more to things than the Gross Pay.

    For the most part I am not ignoring points. I am disagreeing. When I do decide to not respond to a "point" it tends to be because it would be derailing.

    Not selling something gets you farther in the red, Selling something, even at only $25 profit will get you more out of the red then not selling it.

  11. Posted

    This shop has changed hands. It is no longer the biggest shop in town and so it needs to bring in more traphic. To do this, it's gaming prices have to compete with online sources because they dontbhave a loyal base.

    So to paraphrase.  This store NEEDS to compete with online stores like amazon to make a profit. It has done this by lowering it's prices. It must do this because it is lacking a loyal base willing to be charged more.

    I know you guys like bulling me but even the most willfully blind of all of you have to see the irony here....

     

     

    Do you know roughly how much FFG charges for their products? Roughly 55% of MSRP. So an Armada core set costs up to $55 and if they sell it for $76 that is $21ish for expenses before any actual profit.

    Yeh making $21 for a $55 investment is still pretty good considering you would have to sell 2 $60 X-box games to make that kinda money.

     

  12. Posted

    I played a pretty interesting game last night.
    I had 2 x-wings hugging the GH with Dutch and Wedge. when Vader, Fel, x1 tie advanced, and some bombers rolled up on me.

    I used a command to activate Dutch who landed a hit on Vader, Then Wedge who hit him for 6 blue. after that I used my ships AA to do some damage. Then at the start of the fighter phase I used both my x-wings to finish off Vader. 
    When he activated his tie bombers were useless thanks to the GH.
    At the end of round 6 I had lost Wedge and all of my fighters were almost dead but I had killed Vader and the other Tie advanced, Fel only had 1 HP left but his scatter kept him in the fight.

    Between the GH, that other title that let me attack twice, and 3 X-wings vs what was basically only a Tie advanced, Vader, and Fell I thought I had the that fight. but Fell's ability ripped me apart. His ability almost highhandedly took out all my fighters.

    Now to be fair. I made some pretty big mistakes. I had my GH running at speed 2 and when our fighters engaged I really had to fight to keep all my fighters in range. When Wedge fell out of range he died. Also My Neb-B support fell to far back and I only got to use my double fighter command 2 times.

    It was still a interesting fight and I would have won on points in the end if not for a VSD poping my Ned-B in one attack at the 11th hour. 


       

  15. Posted

     

     

    I found this LGS using Google maps. It sounds amazing!http://www.toledogameroom.com

    Somehow they are able to offer below-MSRP pricing for everyone (Armada core $79 for example), offer free shipping on orders over $75, they provide a free place to play, as well as hosting organized events.

    They have been in business since 1987.

    Apparently, it is not impossible. They seem to be fairly successful.

    Someone should really tell them they have "overhead" and "bills" and can't afford to charge Armada for $79.

    Funny they even undercut my suggested price of $79 when you preorder.

    There are any number of reasons that overhead could be reduced. We'vr been over that. It could be that the Game Store owner owns the property. That they make a lot off of online sales. That they work alone for a ton of hours a week to cut costs. That the city subsidizes their business. That doesn't change the reality of what most businesses face. Look at the average not the exception.

     

    Very true.

    And I could just as easily argue that maybe they are trying harder, understand the market better, and are simply better at business. 

    Look at what works, not what fails.

    Wildhorn reacted to this

  16. Posted · Edited by Andre82

    I found this LGS using Google maps. It sounds amazing!

    http://www.toledogameroom.com

    Somehow they are able to offer below-MSRP pricing for everyone (Armada core $79 for example), offer free shipping on orders over $75, they provide a free place to play, as well as hosting organized events.

    They have been in business since 1987.

    Apparently, it is not impossible. They seem to be fairly successful.

    Someone should really tell them they have "overhead" and "bills" and can't afford to charge Armada for $79.

    Funny they even undercut my suggested price of $79 when you preorder.

    JustinKase and Reiryc reacted to this

  17. Posted

    I don't disagree that he might be acting obtuse...  What I have issue is, someone who is attacking him and then turning around and saying this his, andre's posts will get him banned... I mean, really? 

    I know the tactic he is engaging with... it's generally used on boards like these were tattle tales can get topics locked quite quickly.  The game becomes, how to insult without directly insulting and flying under the rules radar.  The moderator looks, doesn't see any direct violation and does nothing, all while said poster is clearly insulting other posters in the thread that would become obvious only to those involved in the discussion.  Some are definitely better at it than others.

     

    Ouch...

    Honestly how do you think I have been acting obtuse? By being Obtuse do you mean me ignoring curtain comments that I felt added little and would be derailing?

    I understand that local stores have overhead. I have a pretty high class pet grooming shop run out of our remodeled garage. I was the MOD for a pretty sweet if overpriced motel, and I have worked for Walmart for over 7 years. I have also seen the inner workings of 4 LGS two fake and two real... don't ask. 

    The first was a long time ago. He was running a sports shop that sold MTG cards. Few people wanted the sports stuff but my friend managed to pretty much keep the store running off of the MTG sales. His competition was Ebay, Walmart, and a LGS that had been there for years and in a better location. He always said his secret to success was that it was better to sale 3 boxes of cards to the magic community and only make 1/2 profit, plus all the good will, then it is to sell one box at full profit.

    So let me restate my main points.

     I am a customer who hopes to see Armada take off. I really like the game and my small town looks like it has a interested community but is a little slow to invest. X-wing is still super hot right now and people are not really sure they want to pay for both.

    My LGS has of right now sold 0 starter sets at the asking price of $99.99. How much money has armada made my LGS to help keep the lights on? 

    I know of 3 other people who have the starter set. One of them works at the store and got his at cost, one of them almost got his at the store but a X-wing player got the sale instead. One of them wants to support the store but is selfish and greedy so he got his from amazon saving himself $30 and used the money he saved to buy 2 X-wing ships from the LGS. The last guy wants to support the store but is not giving the store $30 just to support the store.

    Many of you see a bunch of greedy people taking advantage of this store.

    I see a store that is missing sales and might very well kill Armada before it gets a chance.

    If I had been running the store I would have offered the starter at $79 when you preorder anything from wave 1.

    Honestly anyone here think this is a worse idea then offering the starter at $99?

     

  18. Posted

     

     Secondly, at 249.99 it is not worth stocking the item.  Why would I invest $225 (cost plus shipping to the store from the distributer) to make $25?  Does that make ANY sort of business sense to you? 

     

    lol yah it makes good business sense if you want to make $25 bucks.  You said your LGS went under... wonder why =p

    Listen I understand what you are saying about risk... but the damage was done remember? you had to Ebay the **** things or whatever it was you did. 

    So here I am. I got $250 in hand and I want your toy. Do you wan't my money or did you just really like Ebaying things? 

     

  19. Posted

    No I don't think mom and pop stores should sell at 15% I said they should sell at a 50% markup with a $20 max difference or not stock the item.

    Please don't misquoted me. 

     

    So you have a cost of $200 plus $25 shipping or in other words $225 bucks.... pretty much the same cost if I had just ordering it from Amazon correct?

  20. Posted

    A Premium Format figure has a retail cost of $299.99.  My cost was $199.99.  Then I had to pay for shipping on each piece- on average $25 per piece.  No now I am stuck sitting on $225 in costs in order to make a $75 profit.  And that piece would sit there for a while.  When it did sell, if they used a credit card, there went another 3%.  Now my profits were down to $66.  If I had to list it on eBay or Amazon in order to move it, I had to compete price-wise, which meant knocking at least $10 off of my asking price (MSRP) then the e-tailor took their 15% cut.  In the end, those types of transactions ended up netting a $26 profit off of a $225 cost.  I call it profit, but it really isn’t.  $26 didn’t even cover my salary for the amount of time that I’d spend getting to that point, let alone any other overhead that it would incur.  The owner never saw a penny of those transactions once all costs were factored in.  I still remember when I called the Sideshow rep when I took over and found out that we had bought 13 of the T-800 statues but had only pre-sold 2.  I cancelled 9 of them and used the $1800 to restock higher margin and less expensive items that I was able to turn over much more quickly.  That $1800 ended up netting me around $1500 in profit as opposed to the $600 I would have made on the statues and it had a much faster turnaround- which meant I could restock and bring in newer items that would sell more quickly.

    You can’t compare your small FLGS to big box retailers, the small shops can’t compete price-wise.

    So base cost of $199.99

    Retail cost of $299.99

    You Charge $289.99

    Your profit $26

    Using a little fancy math here, Amazon tends to charge about a 15% markup. They can do this thanks to volume of sales. So chances are Amazon has this same item for same for about $229.99 Do we agree on that?

    Your mark up is about 50%. That is a pretty standard industry average.

    If you walk in to my store and offer me 249.99 .... why the hell would I EVER say no?

    I can only think of two reasons.

    1) I think in time the item will move and I don't mind the loss of shelve space tell that happens.

    2) I am bad at my job.

    "You can’t compare your small FLGS to big box retailers, the small shops can’t compete price-wise."

    If you are a FLGS you can not afford to think like this.

     

  23. Posted

    A Neb-B escort with Tallon, Yavaris and 2 B-wings is 100 points. It can match damage at long range with a Vic and is deadly at close range with up to 4 red, 5 black, and 5 blue is pretty nasty. I am not sure it is worth the points as it lacks tank.

  25. Posted

    If I was running a store I don't think I would charge to use tables. The traffic and community it generates would probably make me more money then charging for the table in the long run.
    I would probably also only charge $79-85 for the Armada core set. At that price I am competing with amazon, making money, and it is a investment as I will have a easier time selling the expansions if I have more players.       

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