meaples
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Posts posted by meaples
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I actually thought the thread ended long ago but realised I just never clicked the 2nd page -.-.
Regarding Paragon title, I thought you could only add that black die if you were in range of using it? The card says you can add a black die to your attack pool but can you actually use it at R3 if the black die can only be used at R1? I may have intepreted "attack pool" as available dice before attacking. Sorta like if you fire the broadsides of an AF2b you have 3 Red + 1 Blue dice in your attack pool but can only use the 3 Red when you actually attack at R3. May be wrong here so gonna need some help to clear it up.
Regarding the defence liason, I'd agree that it wouldn't be completely necessary once you get the hang of planning but the ability to make that sudden move/engineering command may make or break the game. Command 3 ships are by nature slow and sluggish but you can plan ahead to make up for that. Similar to what others have said, what I think makes the Defence liason worthwhile even when you can plan is the ability to execute less predictable and more reactionary moves compared to non-defence liason command 3 ships. I would love to combine the AF2b with the defence liason and engine techs for some serious stunts but sadly the AF2b cannot take said engine techs.
There are still some unspoiled cards left in Wave 1 so we'll have to see if the Dolphin build can be improved even more.
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True on the Neb b list weakness. Anything that hits its side will probably kill it. The idea for that list was just to kill at least 1 enemy ship with its opening salvo. Granted, if you take opening salvo with this list in the initiative bid, you have an extra 2 red dice per Neb b. The alpha with conc. fire and conc. fire token from garm would make it 3+2+1 and a reroll per ship during the initial joust of the match. Can't say if it's enough to kill something but it may just do the trick. Alternatively, a full on corvette list will be quite similar.
Corvette A
Dodonna
Corvette A
Corvette A
Corvette A
Corvette A
Corvette B
Dodonna's pride
E-countermeasures
total: 294 which may be good enough for an initiative bid. If you can drag opening salvo into the picture, you can manage 2+2+1 for each ship for a total of 25 red dice and dodonna's pride having a better chance of scoring the hit.
I might stick with the AF2b list but I'd love to try either the neb or corvette spam list to see the results.
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Was actually thinking of an all corvette list but I was looking at the few downsides.
1) Quite a small range band to ensure you don't get crapped on by black die VSDs or gladiators. A single Gladiator with demolisher and expanded launchers will make your life a living hell. Also, you'd be sitting ducks for the opening long range engagement of the fight. Neb-Bs would be of some use here while you annoy and flank the opponent with the remaining corvettes.
2) If you do plan to run all corvettes, I'd give Garm a try over dodonna just so you can stack movement tokens or conc. fire tokens. If you can afford engine techs, it would greatly benefit the corvettes in getting out of the way. A 4 + 1 moving corvette is wayy to fast for this game.
3) The neb-B should be the salvation if you plan to take a title. You'd want the neb-B to be the main aggressor in the list so your corvettes won't be prioritised and I think the salvation gives it the punch it needs to not be ignored.
4) No squadron is risky but I'd recommend at least an A-wing squadron or 2 to prevent free kills. An imperial or rebel squadron 3 ship with bombers can easily put down 3 black/red dice at a single point of your ship while it's shooting you.
5) Dodonna's pride is definitely a requirement here since it gives the best bang for the buck. 2 faceup damage cards per turn if you get 2 arcs within range will definitely do much more than a stock corvette in the opening salvos.
6) I'm not sure how the turn order will play out since you will be shooting about 4 ships (if you run 6) in a reactive pattern. This is assuming that most armies will contain 2 capitals which means that 4 of your ships may be out of position once the opponent's ship moves. However, if you are not playing a fast moving ship, the path should be easy to predict.
With all being said, I've been wanting to post a list like below for discussion.
Neb b support
Garm
A wing squadron
Neb b support
salvation
A wing squadron
Corvette B
Dodonna's pride
Engine tech
Corvette A
Corvette A
Total 297 pts
You've got 2 A wing squadrons to prevent bomber lists from getting free hits on the Nebs toothpick side armour, 3 fast movers with dodonna's engine tech to run a whopping 4 + 1 in turn 1. Unless I read that wrong and you can do a 4 + (4-1) maneuver in a turn. Basically fly past the opponent with dodonna and force the opponent to turn or get 2 face up's per turn while your nebs pound the front. Corvette As are there to provide a little more room for shooting but you can use them straight up if you prefer and downgrade them to Corvette Bs.
I was thinking of a suicide list like this.
Corvette A
Dodonna
Corvette A
Corvette A
Corvette A
Corvette A
Jaina's light
Corvette b
Dodonna's pride
E-countermeasures
total 294
What you want is opening salvos in either your deck or your opponents. This is purely so you get +2 red dice for each corvette A and +1 for concentrate firepower giving a total of 5 red dice per corvette for the first time you shoot from the front arc which would be hilarious. Corvette B to mop anything that is still alive.
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Actually, I'm just going to throw this out here for discussion.
Neb-B support
Garm
Neb-B support
Salvation
Neb-B support
Redemption
Neb-B support
Neb-B support
There are no tactics with this, just 5 front facing, shoulder to shoulder (so that any shots made on the sides are obstructed) gun frigates. I'm thinking just load em up with Concentrate fire for a 4 red dice frontal, giving 20 red dice if all are in range with re-roll for the 1st attack (Garms command). After that, just sit around with engineering repairing everything or keep throwing concentrate fire until you or the opponent loses... or smash the ships into the opponent.
I've posted a similar list to this before but it wasn't legal.
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Hiya, back with a variant theory list!
AF2b
Garm
A wing
X wing
X wing
AF2b
A wing
X wing
Luke X wing
Corvette B
Dodonna's pride
Total 295 points, 5 points bid for initiative. Without the defence or weapon liason, you will have to plan a bit more than usual but the extra 6 pts was essentially used for initiative. Comments about tackling Imps and Rebs below.
Against Imps,
Naked AF2bs are there to be the meat of the fight, bringing hopefully enough guns to bear while the Corvette B tries to get behind the opponent ships. Essentially, the order of activation matters here and the Corvette B should always play first whilst the AF2bs play second/third. The plan this way is to keep the opponent's eyes on the Corvette rather than the AF2bs. Also, you will have to flank aggresively, so don't be afraid to go at speed. If the opponent has a fast mover and demolisher gladiator, the corvette plays last because the attack-after-move special of the gladiator can probably 1 shot the corvette. Fighter squadrons are there to prevent the definitely lethal TIE bomber/ rhymer range 2 combo. You'd want to commit the X wings first to deal an alpha followed by the A wing last as a finisher to any squadron. The list contains a good number of AA fighters to deal with bombers and act as pseudo bombers with good damage coming from all squadrons. Luke was included for 2 purposes. First, you can slingshot him against a capital and get a lucky crit which will probably take something out or keep him for close range support. Either way, short range fast movers may not have enough squadron backup that a crit may cause some serious problems.
Against Rebs,
Chances are, you'd be facing something similar so it would be recommended that you keep the fleet tight and spend the first 2 turns watching enemy movement. Rebels like to move and flank with broadsides but that is because Imp ships usually can't move fast enough to give chase. I'd wager a tight formation initially which punches through the middle followed by a turn may be a decent way to throw reb players a little off.
Then again, this is all theorycraft and will probably not work in reality so take it with tonnes of salt.
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What about slightly faster cows?
Omicron Group - 21
Engine upgrade
Omicron Group - 21
Engine upgrade
Omicron Group - 21
Engine upgrade
Omicron Group - 21
Engine upgrade
A slightly faster cow is more dangerous no?
Edit: Would tactical jammer actually be of use in the list? I'd just figure the opponent would continue to tip the already tipping cow since it's more likely to fall.
I'm liking Blail's list but is the hero cow worth it?
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Yeah, that would be the best way to utilize the gunnery team. It would be better if we ran the gunnery team with the AF2a but then it would be too expensive to put 3 on the table.
I'm basing all the AF2b lists against this hypothetical Imp list which should arguably be the hardest to bring down by way of ship to ship combat.
VSD I
Admiral Motti
Defence liason
VSD I
Defence liason
VSD I
Defence liason
corrupter
Tie squadon x 2
Tie bomber x 3
Alternatively, the Imp player could just replace the bombers and corrupter with 4 additional Tie squadrons for a total of 6. In this scenario, it would probably be better if AF2bs invested in A-wings as most 3 VSD fleets may be running bombers. Ducksong is pretty on the ball with his AF2b list but what do you guys think would be better? Squadrons or anti-squadron dice?
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Ah my bad. Thanks for the heads up!
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Would love to see it in action
just for the laughs. Even cows can aggro sometimes... -
Added hilarity when you cannot shoot anything because everyone passed you...
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Hi all, after reading the B-wing thread, I was thinking what the effect would be if the imperial variant of this list was used?
Omicron pilot
Accuracy corrector
Anti pursuit lasers
Omicron pilot
Accuracy corrector
Anti pursuit lasers
Omicron pilot
Accuracy corrector
Omicron pilot
Accuracy corrector
Total: 99 points
20 Hull, 20 shield, 12 attack dice, 8 un-modified dice, 4 very annoying large bases with anti pursuit lasers to smash into all fighter groups. Hilarity ensues when nothing can actually move in the game.
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I was thinking of doing the Akbar slash with 3 AF2bs seeing as how they could survive the counter bombardment. I think the MC80 will be the right ship for that case depending on what shields configuration we get. Compared to the Mon cal cruisers, I'd still like to use the AF2bs since they probably retain the best guns in the rebel fleet until something else comes along.
The two AF2bs and 2 corvette balls to the wall list is definitely going to turn heads but I can't help feeling you'd be blocking your own ships if you try and squeeze the corvettes on the weak arcs of the VSDs. Worse, 1 wrong placement and you eat the full battery of both front and side arcs of the VSDs. In that sense, I thought it would be safer to just use the 3 AF2bs or AF2bs with nebs to stay the hell away from Imp ships while trading long range shots.
On the other hand, having the overload pulse and Dodonna's pride in concert with 2 AF2bs will probaly wreck a VSD in a single round of shooting if you get something like Shield failure as the first damage card. Of course, if you don't, there is a good chance the corvettes will be incredibly crippled after the suicide run. I will definitely attempt a list like that nonetheless since it looks like a wild ride.
I wonder if the meta will shift drastically to squadrons after Wave 2 hits, considering the ISD is a really tough nut to crack with rebel ships and the fact that hero squadrons like Han/Boba/etc can potentially decimate a small ship.
Anyway, one thing at a time my padawans.
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I get what you mean with the varied ship build options but I just like the regimented "standard equipment" style. That is just me though.
As for Boothy's list, I have been keen on putting gunnery teams on the AF2bs but my worry is that they will be out of range of another target which makes the gunnery team useless in most cases. I posted a 5 Nebulon build a while back that emphasized a good alpha strike but as I keep looking back, that 1 shield on the side sort of breaks the camels back. However, using it as a support ship (which it is actually) to put 3 dice downrange and force the opponent to deal with it or the AS2bs could prove beneficial. On the other hand, dropping an A wing for another AF2b stock adds quite a bit of force on the table compared to a single Neb-B with an enhanced front arc.
I guess we will have to wait until Wave 1 actually hits to see how much people are willing to bit for intiative and what ships dominate the scene. I do agree that the AF2b may not stand up to the VSD II class of ships with their medium range superiority but having 3 AF2bs while the imps can only afford 2 VSD IIs will give the rebs an advantage in lasting firepower. Against rebels however, a 3 AF2b or 2 AF2b and neb-B list should be able to keep up with all but the fastest corvettes but with the huge amount of shields on the AF2b, I'm sure it can take a beating.
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Hi all, Thanks for the replies!
For the guys who have used mines like these before, are prox mines actually better than seismic charges? I'd be up for just stockpiling seismic charges and get an unhinged for all Y-wings if the outcome is better.
I actually get Blade_mercurial's list idea. If you can bait the opponent into a showdown all in mid lane clash it would be hilarious as you combine ions and bombs for a glorious recipe for destruction. I remember the chicken games we had in Wave 1 and it makes it even better with bombs.
Would outfitting all 4 Y-wings with Ions be better than just blaster turrets? I somehow feel that paying quite a steep price for the turret Ion cannon only to have it front firing a bit strange. Having flown the BTL-A4 title Y-wings before, what usually works better for you guys?
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Hi all, Thanks for the replies!
Yes, the reason I'm liking the AF alot more is the fact that they don't break like a toothpick when prodded at the side. I was actually thinking of dropping all fighters in favor of more upgrades, guns and everything you can throw on 3 capitals. Something I was also toying with looked like this. Looking at the expansion packs, there seems to be some cards that weren't spoiled yet so there may be more options open when Wave 1 finally hits.
Anyway, the no fighter list would look something along these lines.
Assault Frigate MKII A
Garm
Defence liason
Enhanced armaments
Total 119
Assault Frigate MKII A
Defence liason
Enhanced armaments
Total 94
Assault Frigate MKII B
Defence liason
Enhanced armaments
Total 85
It is more likely than not a variant of Ducksong's list. I'd figure if the opponent goes fighter heavy, I'd be up for throwing 10 or so points to buy that 2nd squadron dice than buy a separate bomber/ AA fighter. I really can't decide between enhanced armaments and X17s since they both fill a rather good void in their own way. After facing VSDs, you'd probably manage to throw maybe 1 accuracy to stop the brace but that leaves the annoying redirect which really hurts since you can't get through the VSD's thick shields from the front. In that respect, the X17s may seem like a better idea if you can get a broadside + frontal attack since you'd know something will go through. This can potentially be better than having the extra red dice since getting a single critical on a ship is most of the time quite devastating and the opponent usually has to use an engineering to get it cleared asap.
Somehow, I'd wager the defence liason when paired with garm gives you some pretty tactical options and allows you to spam concentrate fire every round without having to worry about engineering or maneuver until you need it. You can start round 1 with conc. Firepower, keep that token if not in use and save it for later in addition to your free token at the start. This is essentially so that your frigates don't feel so sluggish.
How do you guys feel about fighter complements? Full on or not at all?
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Hi all,
I used to fly 4 Y-wings with Ions wayy back in wave 1 and haven't really been coming back to the game since Scum. That being said, I do like the new cards around and was thinking how would a list like this do?
Syndicate thug Y wing
Bomb loadout
Extra munitions
Proximity mine
Autoblaster turret
Genius
BTL-A4 Y-wing
Syndicate thug Y wing
Bomb loadout
Extra munitions
Proximity mine
Autoblaster turret
BTL-A4 Y-wing
Syndicate thug Y wing
Bomb loadout
Extra munitions
Proximity mine
Autoblaster turret
BTL-A4 Y-wing
Syndicate thug Y wing
Bomb loadout
Extra munitions
Proximity mine
Autoblaster turret
BTL-A4 Y-wing
Is 8 prox mines enough or is it better to go with siesmic charges and some ion cannons? I didn't figure the ion cannons will be needed in this case if you joust with this list, dropping bombs to fill half the map. When the new wave comes out, I'd have a go with replacing some prox mines with cluster mines just for fun. I know this is not the most competitive list but the only way this would be more fun is to lob deadman's switch in there (but Y-wing scum aren't crazy enough, go figure).
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Hi all, this is essentially a long range, low fighter count build that is designed to match the imperials head on.... Not the best rebel strat but the imperials won't expect it
Assault frigate MKII B
Garm Bel Iblis
Total 97
Assault frigate MKII B
Defence liason
X17 Turbolasers
Total 81
Assault frigate MKII B
Defence liason
X17 Turbolasers
Total 81
2 X-wing squadrons
Total 26
1 B-wing squadron
Total 26
Overall: 299
Objectives: Fleet ambush/Hyperspace assault, Minefields, Advanced gunnery.
Essentially, the squadrons are flexible and I choose the X wing/ B wing combo for survivability and either protecting the frigates or doing a solo run with the help of one Assault frigate as squadron commander. The list is capped at 299 to allow aggresiveness. Objectives have been selected to prioritise the fleets general stance (Long range) with the exception of Fleet ambush. It would be incredibly risky if the opponent uses 3 ships, of which 2 of them are capitals but the payoff may be worth it. Alternatively, a standard hyperspace assault can benefit the situation since an ambush fleet of 1 MKII frigate, 2 X wings and 1 B wing squadron is nothing to scoff at.
X17 turbolasers are there to hammer a single point and was chosen over advanced armamaments but can be swapped out at the cost of lower tier squadrons. Defence liason is there in concert with Garm's ability for a free token at the start of the game. This is so that while I am spamming concentrate firepower and squadrons (for one frigate if need be) there will be a chance to use an emergency repair/ maneuver command at full. Again, this can be used on the 5th round.
The list should aim to combat the opponent at long range so I'd keep a solid 2-3 on the maneuver and try to move in a straight line (think akbar slash) since the broadsides are absolutely devastating and can be even better with advanced armaments at the cost of redirect problems against imperials. I like the Frigates general survivability and with the defence liason, they may actually hold out long enough due to the nice complement of shields available to be redirected.
I understand running a low fighter count and strategy that involves a headon collision with imps is a no-no by most rebels but I am keen to try the dolphin brigade.
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I second avoiding minefield objectives for your list. Given that your corvettes don't have long range firepower, the minefields could work against you against camping opponents.
Something about the medium ranged corvettes put me off since Imp ships can potentially cripple them in a single volley but your mileage may vary though so do play it out and see the results.
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Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. I was on the fence about Dodonna compared to Garm since the extra commands could be worth more than the 2 face up damage cards and the fact that you can make full use of Garm's ability. I'll have to try both builds to see if Dodonna is worth it.
True, ramming will be a problem but the free pivots you get from moving at speed should help a little to avoid ramming your own ships. I will have to make use of the VSD's rather large profile to get the ramming in order but I can definitely see problems when trying that on a Gladiator. Still, I wouldn't even try ramming unless I can kill the ship with it.
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Ah, my apologies. Seem to have misread the requirements for commander.
For List 1, take out 3 X17s and add Garm Bel to the salvation. That would bring the total to 299 pts and provide extra commands for the Nebs.
For list 2, ditch the expanded hangers and A wings. Add Garm Bel and an upgrade to the ships of choice. Total should be 293 pts without the last upgrade.
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Hi all, I was just wondering what you guys will think of these builds. Each of them will have a specified tactic at the end of the build that should help put things in perspective.
Neb-B Support refit - 51
X17 Turbolasers - 6
Salvation - 7
Neb-B Support refit - 51
X17 Turbolasers - 6
Neb-B Support refit - 51
X17 Turbolasers - 6
Neb-B Support refit - 51
X17 Turbolasers - 6
Neb-B Support refit - 51
X17 Turbolasers - 6
Totals to 292 pts. Arguably the missing fighters will put people off but since the aim of this list is to knock out an important ship with an alpha strike, it may actually pay off. Frontal facing and close packed formation (a straight line, side by side) should give the 5 ships enough space to direct all firepower onto the first sorry ship that crosses its frontal arc. The build starts with speed 3, T1 maneuver (for pivots)/ T1 concentrate fire (If you want the reroll token) and T2 Concentrate firepower. I haven't tested if the ship can actually make it to the enemy by turn 2 at full speed but if it does, then you should have 4 red dice per ship that will eat through the frontal arc of any ship. VSD's can't redirect all of its shots so you should be able to pound it to bits. Alternatively, you could replace the X17s on the last 3 ships with an Intel officer so that if he uses any of his defensive tokens, it gets discarded. The job of this list is to wipe the enemy capitals before the fighter swarms get you and perhaps if the enemy is focusing on anti-fighter swarms, you may have more time.
What is noticeable here is that if you knock out an enemy ship that focuses on squadron support, you may actually be able to outrun the squadrons since they always activate after you move. Unless your opponent can predict where your Speed 2-3 ship will be the next round, you may be able to avoid most of the fighters.
Initiative is important in this list since you'd want to throw everything you have got into the first ship you decide to focus on. The best part: After 1 round of 20 red dice shooting with extra damage from the salvation, you can end it all with a massive 5 ship ram fest. Taking a stock VSD, your hopefully 20 red dice should wittle it down to less than 5 hull which is just enough for you to ram it to death and watch your opponent's jaw drop.
Death or glory!
Now, the next list is a little more normal but focuses on a drawn out fight with good fighter support. Since the Assault frigate comes in the cheapest per squadron value when compared to all Starter and Wave 1 ships, the list goes something like this.Assault Frigate Mk II B - 72
Expanded hangers - 5
X wing - 13
Y wing - 10
Y wing - 10
A wing - 11
Assault Frigate Mk II B - 72
Expanded hangers - 5
X wing - 13
Y wing - 10
Y wing - 10
A wing - 11
Neb-B Support refit - 51
Salvation - 7
Total 300 pts. Basic concept is to pincer move the assault frigates while spamming squadron until all your squadrons are dead. X and A wings are there for bomber escort and the Neb-B will be your long range artillery support. You should be able to last quite a while if you keep to long range and slingshot your fighters but I haven't really tested it out yet. Alternatively, you can replace some fighters and expanded hangers for enhanced armament for more pew. I haven't given much thought to this list but point for point, the assault frigate should be the cheapest squadron slingshot at 19.25 pts/ squadron value including expanded hangers but only marginally beating the VSD with hangers.
Looking forward to the death or glory build and will definitely try it when I get enough expansions to make the list.
Thanks for reading!
just for the laughs. Even cows can aggro sometimes...
Assault frigate build, suggestions and comments wanted :)
in Star Wars: Armada Fleet Builds
Posted
I just checked the fleed builder, my bad! Some quite interesting cards there that I haven't seen yet. I'll go theory craft something and post a list here later.