Pentagon Wars was based on the work of James Burton, who was part of the Fighter Mafia led by John Boyd that was also responsible, to some degree, for the F-15 not being a swing wing (thank god) and the passage of both the F-16 and the A-10. My air force mentor had me read Boyd's biography. He has been incredibly influential in air force doctrine in the years since he died, particularly for fighter pilots. So it's very appropriate to bring this comparison to the K-Wing. I think, I can say with reasonable authority that John Boyd would have despised the K-Wing.

More like some people win and I don't lose, but I cede the point.

That sounds awesome. I definitely want to try some more scenario play. The 100 point tournament list stuff is fine, but variety is the spice of life.

I don't normally say negative things on this forum, but it's hard to encapsulate the disbelief/disappointment I felt seeing the release pics. I was floored by what they decided to do. I also knew that expressing that disappointment would result in the ire of fanboys, who seem to not be able to criticize decisions that are made by people working for companies they buy things from, or pictures of ships made by comic book artists. That's okay. I was expecting that. My real issue though is, aside from the stuff regarding the K-Wing, I'm getting awfully tired of the drive-by sarcasm on this forum. It's getting harder not to reply to it in kind, which is almost always the wrong decision. That's why I edited my post. My initial response was to reply in kind, and I had to rein it in. I stand by everything I've said about the K-Wing though. It's ugly and ridiculous. FFG's modelers may be incredibly talented, I have no doubt that they are, I love the models I've spent my hard-earned money on, but at the end of the day, a polished turd is still a turd.

I get what you're saying, Gadge, but I think the medium base would have been problematic on the Aggressor because the large base is part of what balances it within the game. The Aggressor's dial is pretty sweet, but the large base helps to hold it back from being too good, considering all the other neat things it possesses. A medium base would eliminate some of the difficulty in playing it well, and would make the ship "better" on the tabletop, which might unbalance it. I don't think the medium base idea is bad on the whole, and I think you agree with everyone saying it's not going to be a thing, but I think if we were going to introduce it, we'd have to pick the ships carefully and then they'd have to have their dials messed with to keep things in balance. Would it have been a good idea? I'm not sure. Scale in Star Wars is so hard to figure out sometimes, and I'm still getting the hang of how differently large-based ships fly from small ones. I'm not ready to process the capabilities of a medium just yet.

Yeah, dumb. It would be like having a turret that could shoot your own radar dish. No ships like that in the Star Wars universe. Sorry, I've clearly lost my objectivity here. Should probably go grade papers and get away from the keyboard.

Will do. I'm done.

Ad hominem is the fallacy of the validity of a point depending on who says it: that if you cast aspertions on someone's character it somehow weakens their point. We're also both guilty of a quite a lot of "appeal to motive" in this exchange, which is "of course you'd say that because you want this." If I say your point" holds as much water as a colinder" I'm simply saying it doesn't hold up to examination, and I go on to express reasoning behind that statement. That's not an attack on you and certainly not an attack on you in order to make you appear wrong. I'm fairly sure we haven't been over the territory of statlines not perfectly matching lore and starship behaviour not matching aviation. The reason I vented against you is because my frustration is with you, or more correctly your posts over the last few days. As I said, prior to the Wave VII annoucement I held you in very high esteem and I still do: it wouldn't be fair to overwrite an opinion formed over the timescale of weeks and months based on two days. he forum itself is prone to teacup storms and a few days of skyfalling I've simply come to expect, as irritating as I find it, but I didn't expect it from you. To see the K-wing intelligently deconstructed, discussed and critiqued in terms of avionics, that I fully expected and almost looked forward to, but your posts read more like you'd taken it as a personal insult. I expected you to call it wildly impractical, but not "retarded" and "filth." It's the people one respects who's actions one judges most harshly. I guess that's where "never meet your heroes" comes from. And my reactions have been, well, let's be honest, less than measured, because I feel profoundly disappointed and not listened to. They read the forums, and this is not the first time the K-Wing has been deconstructed, and it won't be the last. It will probably be the last time I do it, because there is no point at this juncture to continue. Alea iacta est, as some Roman dude once said. I feel the same way about the choice of the Kihraxz, and I strongly feel that the news releases concerning it will show it to be a Scum medium fighter. Yes, that's a nebulous category, but basically, more hull than the Scyk, more weapons slots, and less maneuverability on the dial, and probably in its action economy. That would be my guess. I could be wrong - I was certainly wrong about the K-wing. I never imagined for a second they'd produce it. But if I'm right, and it is a Scum medium fighter, I think you would have to agree that it doesn't make much sense, considering the ship in question was a light fighter in the game they took it from, and there are other fighters from that game which are medium fighters, and one of those would certainly fit with the Scyk better, all questions of aesthetics aside. Which, all things considered, would strongly suggest that my argument regarding the Dunelizard/Vaksai is more pot-like and less colander-like.

Would love to see little missile tokens and missile dials to chase ships around the board. Give each missile a set number of turns it can maneuver before it goes ballistic or self-destructs. So, the short-ranged ones have one or two turns to maneuver into the target, and the long-ranged ones have 3-5 turns. Give them a proximity fuse, so they maybe don't have to overlap, just get within range 1 or something. That would be cool.

Really? Padme is no good? That's disappointing.

Thanks guys, I've got all the episodes on amazon, so I'll give it a look sometime when I'm not fruitlessly arguing with people on the internet.

This is super cool. Thanks so much for posting it!

What does that mean? Lol have you ever seen fickle post? I can summarize 80% of his posts. "Turrets are stupid and I hate them because they ruin the game!" Lol Fair enough. My K-Wing hate is not approaching anything close to 80% of my posts, and I'm sure I'll get over it eventually...probably.

To TIE Pilot: No, my lack of response to that part of your post is because we've been over this territory and I think you're wrong, and you think I'm wrong, and that's probably going to be the end of the matter. I would however, object to your assessment of my argument as holding as much water as a colander. Again, verging on the ad hominem there. I think it's interesting that you take umbrage with me venting my personal frustrations on an imaginary ship, and the design process that led to its acceptance, and then proceed to vent your personal frustrations on me personally, all the while, making as your primary argument, the notion that my expression of my frustrations is "childish." What do we call the expressions of your frustrations then, considering that they involved directly insulting somebody?

What does that mean?

Hate to tell you but there's no space combat it's all 1st person I think. Yeah, there's no space dogfighting, but there is atmospheric dogfighting, which is my favorite thing anyway. I'll enjoy that. And the cockpit views look pretty sweet.

I also thought it was a bit slow to begin with, but it does pick up. The season finale was very good and this trailer makes the second season look fantastic. As for clone wars, it was fairly hit or miss. Some of the stories were amazingly good, but there were also jar jar episodes that were nigh unwatchable. About where in the season does it start to pick up? I kind of stopped around episode three (including the pilot). Part of that was just being busy, but part of it was that I wasn't super excited to keep going.

I may have been vitriolic about the K-Wing, but at least I've never gone around insulting anybody on the forums.

I like that idea a lot. That way there is no incentive to not race, but there is an incentive to maybe widen the turn around a pylon to really stick it to an opponent.

If me suggesting that you don't want to agree with me is an ad hominem, what do we call this? Or this? Or this? Or this one? Or by the same logic you used when addressing my post, we might say that this is an ad hominem as well The use of "maybe" here does nothing to detract the pure ad hominem I could also address the overall tone of what you've said, but I think I can leave it there. Suffice it to say, I've found your conduct to be less than polite.

I don't care whether they have prequel stuff or not so long as they continue with what they did in the Battlefield series and give stick and rudder control for the ships. If they want to be super-nice and enable a TrackIR or mouse-look option while in the cockpit, I'll be even more excited. Definitely getting this game when it releases.

There was a guy posting in off-topic about his pod racer game he made-up. The rules for that might be helpful. Though, as it stands, I think your idea sounds like a blast to play.

I have to say, I had a hard time getting into Rebels. The first three episodes didn't really grab me much, but I like the looks of the trailer. I've never seen the Clone Wars either though, so I only know about Captain Rex and Ashoka from my brother. I'm thinking of binge-watching the Clone Wars once this semester is over, as I kind of like the prequel era, and this new not-quite-GCW era.

You haven't treated the design team or the artists at FFG with respect. You've said that you'd rather quit the entire game outright than ever see a "retarded", "hideous" ship used by another player, saying you need to "get this K-wing filth out of my eyes." If you don't think that comes under the definiton of "denigrate" then I don't know what does. Saying you don't like the design of the ship is fair enough but this is above and beyond this. Your response to the K-wing is nothing short of vitriolic. Yes, and my vitriol is directed towards the K-Wing, an imaginary spaceship. Your vitriol is directed towards me, a human being. I think that distinction should be fairly clear. As to the straw man argument, you made several. The first one you made was claiming I called the designer's decision retarded. I never did. You invented that and then accosted me for it. The second straw man argument you made was that the entire basis for my argument was subjective - it wasn't. I mentioned the medium/light fighter distinction, which you glossed over saying we don't have cards. We don't need cards to know that a four hull one shield ship is a medium fighter. That's the same number of hit points as the X-Wing, and people have already said it's going to be the Scum's X-wing equivalent. I think you would agree with that yourself if not for the fact that it supports my argument for the Vaksai or Dunelizard as a better alternative.

I get that, I just didn't like the snarky post, so I replied with overwhelming logic. It's my thing.