Yep. It was just a simple example, as best as I can tell, I have done more advanced math on the game than anyone else (including the developers), so I'm well aware of the subtleties. I could crash the thread by actually calculating the expected damage for each suggested list but I'm overdue on analyzing Missiles and Torpedoes! I actually use your jousting values for comparison purposes regularly. I don't pretend to understand the math but so far I have found your values to be generally consistent with game performance.

What it's got going for it is maximum firepower, 15 red dice. Only the eight TIE swarm beats that, and those come in 2 dice attacks rather than 3 dice attacks. Looking at only dice, some other squads also match / exceed: 4x Sigma Squadron Pilots (16 dice in 4 attacks) 5x Alpha squadron pilots (15 dice in 5 attacks, 90 points) If you are looking at raw damage output you should take a look at this thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/179055-which-fleet-has-the-most-raw-damage/ There are a bunch of builds based off of alpha strikes and sustained damage output.

I think the K will end uo like the x wing in that the named pilots will see use for their abilities but not the generics because the Z95 is still a better/more efficient use of points. Something like this might be fun: Talonbane Cobra (28) Predator (3) N'Dru Suhlak (17) Lone Wolf (2) Binayre Pirate (12) Binayre Pirate (12) Binayre Pirate (12) Binayre Pirate (12) Total: 98 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Drop Suhlack to a pirate to have some upgrade points to play with if you want or drop a Z95 to add a few cluster missiles and glitterstim to the Z95s to have an awesome alpha strike.

As a former 40K & WHF player, I'm partial to maps with NO gridlines whatsoever! Honestly, I can see how it might be an interesting exercise but the existing flightpath mechanics are so much more organic, I can't imagine switching back to any sort of grid-system. In a scenario like the urban terrain maps we're talking about here, a few degrees difference in how you orient your ship during deployment/maneuvering can mean the difference between success or splattering your fighter into the side of an obstacle. That's exciting, to me! I have played a lot of 40k too and though I enjoyed playing it a lot of games had "disagreements" over range/movement. The hex based games remove that, but like I said I enjoy both. I think X wing does a nice job of mitigating that issue without resorting to hexes or grids, but that is primarily because you are not required to adjust for 3d terrain or obstacles too often and the rules for dealing with it are very clean. If you wanted to have 3D terrain in X-Wing I would use similar rules as for asteroids for buildings and debris for rough terrain. Pass through it and roll of damage/stress land on it roll lose action/attack, but rather than ending on the building you bump bases like it was a ship in x-wing now to avoid balancing ships on buildings. Interesting thing about this is you could have speeder and land units in the game and I am kind of fond of the snow speeder.

I've been thinking about this, and as a Battletech player, I am partial to hex maps. I was thinking about trying to convert the standard maneuver templates into hex based templates.

I did something similar with the scum z95 ace with lone wolf instead of a y and Palob with opportunist in a casual game. Palob was the star of the show Palob Godalhi (20) Opportunist (4) Blaster Turret (4) Moldy Crow (3) N'Dru Suhlak (17) Lone Wolf (2) Boba Fett (Scum) (39) Push the Limit (3) K4 Security Droid (3) Engine Upgrade (4) Total: 99 View in Yet Another Squad Builder .

That's the plan.

Just freeing up points for another named pilot. Like this:Tarn Mison (23) R2 Astromech (1) Biggs Darklighter (25) R2 Astromech (1) Total: 50 Besides, with R2s beginners get extra help with stress. Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13) Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13) Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) Total: 50 You probably considered this other swarm but I thought I'd point it out just in case. I will look at Tarn/Biggs. Biggs would definately be more thematic. As for the Tie Swarm, the reason I went with a 3 Tie versus 4 is I only own 3

Good feedback on the hull versus shield I will either go all shield or all hull, probably shield. The dagger was just for points to add to 50. I think I will make them both dagger to give them the same PS and a bit of a bump versus the Ties and Z95s. edit: apparently I already made that mod after I updated the builds both of the X-Wings have hull upgrades

This is an odd number of builds; What's up with that? Three Imperial builds Four Rebel builds Two Scum builds I still think you've unbalanced some of the builds within themselves, Like Luke and Vader. swap Predator for Lone Wolf, and give the shield/hull upgrade to the Z-95. Tarn plus R7 is cute, but I would go with two hull upgrades, two R2s, and a second named pilot. Did you consider not using Kavil? There are only 3 couples playing so I only need 6 builds total. I built more so the last person selecting could have some options. Only one of each build will be in the tournament. I appreciate your feedback on the builds. I went with Lone Wolf on Luke as it has both an affect on both offense and defense and with in experienced players, with only 2 ships I thought Lone Wolf made more sense. As for the SU on Luke, the point was to play more thematic games, not necessarily optimized lists so I wanted to keep the iconic characters more survivable/potent. I used the same logic for making Vader so focal to that build. I considered not using Kavil but I wanted something with the Ys to make them more interesting and differentiate the 2 Ys from each other and with such inexperienced players I think there will be a lot of out of arc shooting so his ability will trigger often. As for Tarn, I have never played the "classic combo" of R7 with him so I wanted to see how it fared and to give every player some extra fluff for the game. What is you logic for R2 on Tarn versus R7? Again these aren't meant to be min/maxed just relatively balanced among themselves.

Each player will pick a build to play through out the tournament. Only one of each build will be in the tournament. Husbands will play wives and we will score 1 point for a win and once all of the combinations of spouses play we will tally up the wins and declare a team the winner. We have 3 couples playing so there will be 3 rounds.

I left both Wedge and Soontir off the builds out of respect for Syal. I wouldn't want to make her choose.

At the risk of being accused of necro'ing a thread the date for the tournament is set for the weekend of July 18 and 19th. Based on feedback I have altered the 50ish point builds some. I fattened up Boba Fett, added a shield and hull to the Tarn/X Wing build, changed ATC to AC on Vader, and I changed the autoblasters to blaster turrets on the Y wings. I think they are pretty balanced, the X and Y wing lists are 53 and 54 points but I don't think those points will unbalance the builds. Here they are, thoughts? I only need to add one Tie Fighter to my collection to field them all simultaneously. Build: Scum Boba Fett FIRESPRAY-31: · Boba Fett (39) Engine Upgrade (4) Heavy Laser Cannon (7) Build: Han Solo YT-1300: · Han Solo (46) · Chewbacca (4) Build: Mini Swarm TIE FIGHTER: · "Howlrunner" (18) Swarm Tactics (2) TIE FIGHTER: · "Backstabber" (16) TIE FIGHTER: Black Squadron Pilot (14) Build: Luke Skywalker X-WING: · Luke Skywalker (28) · Lone Wolf (2) · R2-D2 (4) Shield Upgrade (4) Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Build: Tarn Mison X-WING: · Tarn Mison (23) R7 Astromech (2) Hull Upgrade (3) X-WING: Red Squadron Pilot (23) R2 Astromech (1) Hull Upgrade (3) Build: Darth Vader TIE ADVANCED: · Darth Vader (29) · Squad Leader (2) Engine Upgrade (4) TIE/x1 (0) Accuracy Corrector (0) TIE FIGHTER: Night Beast(15) Build: Generic B Wing B-WING: Blue Squadron Pilot Fire Control System B-WING: Dagger Squadron Pilot Fire Control System Build: Scum Y-Wing Y-WING: · Kavil Blaster Turret R4 Agromech Y-WING: Syndicate Thug Blaster Turret R4 Agromech

I would make the elite pilots separate from the ships so you could put Corran in an X wing or Luke in the Falcon. They would operate like upgrades with each pilot having a different point value. You could limit what pilots have access to what ships if there was a potential of abuse that would unbalance the game.

I am a casual and relatively new player so I am taking it on face value that the X-Wing needs about a 2 point bump. How about something like this: Rogue Squadron 0 points: Pilot Skill 3+ X wing Only Take a modification at -2 points Add a second modification slot This can get you a cheap shield or hull upgrades and doesn't have an opportunity cost. It could also allow you to add EU and AT to offset the glass cannon nature of the X and give you a repositioning option, but with a cost. It's similar to the X1 title but different enough to make it interesting. Maybe add a new modification like maneuvering thrusters that adds a barrel roll to the action bar for 4 points if you want a BR on a ship.

There's that.Anyone else notice that this pilot bears a distinct similarly to the new Emperor card? No range. A reason for weapons engineer?

Jan Ors allows you to convert focus to evades, not as good as C3PO, but still good.

So what do you think of the builds?

I understand, but part of the allure to our wives was to have the chance to beat and embarrass their husbands. We are getting a fair bit of run out of all of the wives being part of the dark side, therefore Empire. All in all we are a pretty good natured bunch, but competitive. Also only 2 of the husbands are avid gamers and the rest are not that much more experienced than our wives.

So some of my friends and I have convinced our wives to do a husbands vs. wives X-Wing Tournament (4 couples) and I am trying to come up with some fun 50 point (more or less) builds that are simple to play and relatively balanced for everyone to play. So here are the parameters I set for myself in building the squads 50 +/-points to keep the games fast and small This is a casual game so we can proxy unreleased content like the X/1 title We will be using actions No debris or asteroids to keep maneuvering simple. Stay away from control builds or cascading abilities to keep simple for the new players (wives), who are not gamers, but are being great spouses just to consider this All of the couples have played some causal games, with the intro rules without actions or stress. Here is what I have put together to date. I wanted to get the communities input on the balance of the builds. I am not looking to optimize the builds but have them be balanced so no one has "the killer build" and no one is non-competitive because of a poor build. I have tried to stick with the big names from the movies to keep the pilots relevant to our wives, who may or may not have seen the movies, or thematic, i.e. Tie swarm. Build: Scum Boba Fett FIRESPRAY-31: · Boba Fett (39) Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Binayre Pirate (12) Build: Han Solo YT-1300: · Han Solo (46) · Chewbacca (4) Build: Mini Swarm TIE FIGHTER: · "Howlrunner" (18) Swarm Tactics (2) TIE FIGHTER: · "Backstabber" (16) TIE FIGHTER: Black Squadron Pilot (14) Build: Luke Skywalker X-WING: · Luke Skywalker (28) · Lone Wolf (2) · R2-D2 (4) Shield Upgrade (4) Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Build: Tarn Mison X-WING: · Tarn Mison (23) R7 Astromech (2) X-WING: Red Squadron Pilot (23) R2 Astromech (1) Build: Darth Vader TIE ADVANCED: · Darth Vader (29) · Squad Leader (2) Engine Upgrade (4) TIE/x1 (0) Advanced Targeting Computer (1) TIE FIGHTER: Black Squadron Pilot (14) Build: Generic B Wing B-WING: Blue Squadron Pilot Fire Control System B-WING: Dagger Squadron Pilot Fire Control System Build: Scum Y-Wing Y-WING: · Kavil Autoblaster Turret R4 Agromech Y-WING: Syndicate Thug Autoblaster Turret R4 Agromech On the surface I think Vader, Luke and Han are the class of the field, in that order. I am thinking about adding some upgrades, probably hull, to Tarn and the generic X wing to make that list more competitive and dropping the ATC on Vader to an AC to make him a little less potent. I think Boba will be hard to balance, I may drop the second ship and just fatten him up, but I am worried he won't have enough offense alone. The the Scum Y-Wings with autoblasters are of questionable, but I didn't want to ask newbies to manage their actions to fire the blaster turret and I didn't want to do ion in order to avoid control lists. I am not tied to 50 points limits it's okay if the lists are different point values as long as they are balanced with each other. I wasn't sure if this belonged in the list building sub forum or in the main forum, so I apologize if I put this in the wrong forum. Thoughts on build balance, other build suggestions, tournament format and general feedback is welcome.

SLAM is an action, so you cannot SLAM if you are stressed. Good point however the question regarding taking on stress from a red maneuver still holds.

There have been a couple of questions about SLAM and dropping bombs that have made me think a bit about the SLAM action. My question is if you use SLAM to do a green maneuver do you shed stress? Also if you use SLAM for a red maneuver do you get stress? I don't think so because, check for stress and clean up happens before actions. Am I missing something?

It's a maneuver. So if it's green do you shed stress? If it's red do you gain stress?

By my math that's 16.775 expected damage for the alpha strike, and 12.434-13.263 expected damage after that (assuming that the Scyks stay out of N'Dru's way and at range 2-3). I posted this in another topic but thought it appropriate for this topic too. Suhlak gets two 4 dice attacks with expected damage of 3.5 per 4 die attack, and the rest get two 3 dice attacks with expected damage of 2.25 per 3 die attack. The Glitterstim works like a focus for offense and doesn't require an action. So 32 attack dice will yield 7+(4.5*4)=25 expected damage from an alpha strike. None of the expected damage calcs are mine. I am using someone else's calcs and I am taking them on face value. I welcome confirmation of the math. N'Dru Suhlak (17) Lone Wolf (2) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Binayre Pirate (12) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Suhlak gets two 4 dice attacks with expected damage of 3.5 per 4 die attack, and the rest get two 3 dice attacks with expected damage of 2.25 per 3 die attack. The Glitterstim works like a focus for offense and doesn't require an action. So 32 attack dice will yield 7+(4.5*4)=25 expected damage from an alpha strike. None of the expected damage calcs are mine. I am using someone else's calcs and I am taking them on face value. N'Dru Suhlak (17) Lone Wolf (2) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Binayre Pirate (12) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Black Sun Soldier (13) Cluster Missiles (4) Glitterstim (2) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder