I am not familiar with Kill Team nor with Lazer Riderz. It doesn't sound like Kill Team uses spaces on the board or there wouldn't be a need to measure movement that would suggest a miniatures game. Lazer Riderz doesn't sound like it has spaces either so that also suggests a miniatures game. I thought I was clear that it isn't what the game pieces are or how they are acquired that makes something a miniatures game. By well-defined board to you mean play area? Or do you mean a board like the play area used in Imperial Assault or a Heroclix map? Do you want to argue that Monopoly is a miniatures game since it has model houses and model hotels and a miniature car and a miniature shoe and miniature man on a horse?

Star Wars: Crisis Protocol perhaps? Something that is not Imperial Assault but isn't as big as Legion. Something where they can produce 30 dollar unpainted miniatures of Han Solo and Luke Skywalker that they can sell as much to "hobbyists" as to "gamers." I think about a story I heard about Games Workshop. The executives showed up one day only to lose their stuffing that their employees were playing games. They weren't a game company they were a model company. Is Atomic Mass a game company first or a model company first?

Those remarks from Atomic Mass and the entire situation really bring to mind a story I once heard about Games Workshop. The executive types showed up one day to find all the employees playing the game. The executives lost their heads over this. They did not consider Games Workshop a game company but a model company. Given the pace of releases for Crisis Protocol has been characterized as "rapid" and that the expansion strategy has been characterized as "power creep" I find myself considering whether or not Atomic Mass considers themselves (or perhaps Asmodee considers Atomic Mass) a model company. Does Star Wars: Crisis Protocol seem particularly far-fetched?

Yes. I would call the old Mage Knight a miniatures game and Heroclix a board game. I am not distinguishing miniatures and board games by which rules they use or whether they have rules in common but by spaces being marked on the board. This is by no means some sort of uncommon convention that I've pulled from my backside. That a game piece can be a miniature of something is not what determines whether the game piece belongs to a miniatures game.

That is more than we knew before. However, I do not find it at all conducive to allaying my fears. And that means what exactly? Nothing. Tells us nothing. Standard boilerplate. And this combined with the use of "hobby miniatures" is worrying if you don't want to paint your ships as "hobby" typically gets used with things that need assembly and painting.

I find your protestations specious and disingenuous. You seem to be arguing that the X-wing MINIATURES Game is not in fact a miniatures game.

Well I'm not going to cancel my X-wing pre-order. I have reason to suspect that it will in point of fact ship and even if the recent news on moving bring changes I am not on board with I want these upcoming ships to more or less "complete" my X-wing game. I am considering cancelling my pre-order for the Clone Wars Armada items. I was under the impression that additional expansions would be quite likely for January but that was something of an informal announcement. Without assurance of the Q1 2021 alleged expansions I am in limbo with regards the Armada items I have on pre-order. I do not feel simply the starters and squadrons packs provide the complete Clone Wars experience I would be after. The Q1 expansions even if that is all there is would amount to "enough." Had my pre-order for Armada not been made prior to this news I would not make one until more information about what's next was shared with us. I have little reason to think things are simply going to continue on as before given the leads for the games have been discharged with the move to the new studio. I suspect for some it is simply a question of cutting ties sooner rather than later. Change is painful and giving up things is a change. Perhaps these folks have been seeking a way for quite sometime to make a change regarding their X-wing spending. Perhaps they have found one here. I certainly see the possibility of cutting my Armada habit. My Armada largely sits unused and it grows more difficult to justify continued purchases. I'm not that far from there with X-wing.

There's an idea. Maybe throw in Outer Rim, Rebellion, and Imperial Assault (and whatever other Star Wars properties they have) and sell the whole kit and caboodle to Hasboro?

I have always been under the impression as to whether or not something is a board game or a miniatures game is whether or not the playing area has spaces already defined on it. Risk is a board game which until recently used abstractions for soldiers. Risk boards have spaces. Axis and Allies is also a board game because though it has miniature soldiers for pieces the board has spaces the same way Risk boards have spaces. Imperial Assault was not a miniatures game because the playing area had spaces. Rebellion - board game. X-wing no spaces. Armada and Legion no spaces.

That's all fair and especially a good point on it possibly being a surprise to Atomic Mass and doesn't particularly discount my point of making a change because they are not happy with the status quo.

I do not know. I don't have the numbers. I do know they appear to have the let the leads of all of these games go. That very much suggests not continuing on the current path. I'm out in the woods making wild-backside guesses. So...

Depends on the non-fighter things I need to shoot. Most lock-based can also be dumb fire so I tend to either dumb fire only or choice of lock or dumb fire. I don't usually use lock required secondary. Mostly X-wings/TIE ln with concussion and rockets.

New things sell more than old things? They are perhaps only selling this to an established base and are not attracting new players or bring lapsed players back frequently enough? Corporations want to grow products lines and profits. From our point of view we do not need new editions. Our point of view is not the one that counts.

You need to "spam" the ping target aspect. As soon as you see something headed for an objective you need to protect you need to lock it and hit triangle (PS4) and have your mates go after it. Blows up you do it again. If no targets make sure you ping what you need to protect so the squad doesn't wander off. With Thorne you need to concentrate on just the stuff going after the shuttle. If you can blow that up fast enough your squad can take care of the rest. That's why you have to keep on top of them with pinging targets. They tend to lose focus or get caught in their own troubles. I did the campaign on Ace and tended to trying to maximize health and damage output when I had loadout options and/or fighter choice.

I'm saying freak outs is why this is being framed as "moving" the lines and not being phrased as impending cancellation of these lines.

See. I am not constitutionally capable of wishing folks who put my friends out of work good luck at doing my friends' job. Those folks find themselves in the position of needing to earn more than the most minimal of courtesy which in my case is not wishing them ill.

In the X-wing boards someone was saying they cancelled their pre-order for the ships do in the next 2-4 weeks. If they are cancelling Armada and/or cancelling not going through with the Q1 2021 expansions for Clone Wars Armada I will be cancelling my pre-order for the December Armada releases. They are already likely to take a hit on these upcoming product lines without a straight-up cancellation announcement or with announcement of new editions of these three games or changes to the way products for these games release. I suspect a cancellation announcement could also have the dreaded "scalpers" popping up to try and extort the fans for these final products.

I am not wishing them ill. I am however unwilling to greet this news with open arms and cheers and salutations. If Asmodee is the problem here they are not going away. They are simply making the responsibility for cleaning up a problem of their creation that of another of their studios. My FLGS pretty much said I was on my own with regards to getting the Clone Wars Armada and the new X-wing stuff upcoming. He doesn't carry Crisis Protocol either. That is an Asmodee distribution issue. Why should I suspect that to cease because a new studio is in charge of these games? These sorts of changes don't come about because everything is fine. When things are not fine changes follow. Change is rarely all good and even when good tends to come with pain. Hence my lack of enthusiasm.

Duplicate post. Assuredly not my doing.

Is it a license to create these specific games or these types of games? They do not need to keep making Armada specifically for the license to create a fleet battle style Star Wars miniatures game to remain valuable. Does anyone have any idea what it is Atomic Mass may have convinced the higher ups of in order to have these games shifted to their studio? There is a lot of information we don't have and yes I'm speculating just like the rest of you. I am going to speculate on the pessimistic side. Corporations don't make the sorts of moves we're seeing here if they're happy with where things are and where they perceive things to be going. Any sort of status quo remaining in place for these games seems unreasonable to my logic.

Should we even expect these games to continue? Going by the rumored layoff it seems they've kept the minions who would best be able to get the products past the point of cancellation to market while dismissing those most responsible for creating new products. By my reckoning there are four X-wing products, four Legion products, and six Armada products that we should expect by the end of the year. The only other things claimed are an additional four Armada products that have not had a particularly formal announcement but which may be past the point of cancellation. These may well mark EOL for all of these games.

That is an excellent point. It seems to me they kept the minions who would get the product that is too far along not to release to market. By my reckoning there are four X-wing products, four Legion products, and six Armada products that we should expect by the end of the year. The only other things claimed are an additional four Armada products that have not had a particularly formal announcement but which may be past the point of cancellation. These may well mark EOL for all of these games.

Their resume is not extensive enough to be more than fear inducing particularly given the type of game on the resume and given that many of these Atomic guys seem to have designed a game I did not care for on my exposure to it. Well wishes is simply a new hope if you will. He who lives on hope has a slender diet. I have a substantial contribution to my diet tied up in a pre-order based on the idea that I would be fed more in Q1 2021. The present contribution is not palatable without assurances the additional feed will be provided. Also given the nature of this Crisis Protocol game I am quite unsure what it is I will be wishing them well at. The reports around employee dismissal suggest having kept the minions who might be necessary for fulfillment of getting the final products in these lines to market while dismissing those who are chiefly responsible for their creation. I have little reason to suspect that any of these three games will continue to look like what we are accustomed to if they in fact continue to exist. This news certainly explains why there was no firm word on whether the Clone Wars Armada Starter ships would see individual release. By my reckoning there are four X-wing products, four Legion products, six armada products with another four claimed but not having been shown in a typical announcement article in the pipeline far enough that we should expect their release. These products may mark the end of these product lines. What exactly might I be wishing this studio well at?

My primary question in this is what is the story on the Q1 2021 Clone Wars Armada expansions. While my sympathies go out to those who find themselves unemployed I have a not insubstantial ($400+) pre-order in for Clone Wars Armada Starters and Squadron Packs. This was based on the information (not official but from company sources) that additional expansions were coming in early 2021. Now it seems unreasonable to expect information about what might be in the works past Q1 2021 and this news explains the non-answer as to whether there would be individual ship expansions for the Clone Wars Armada Starter Pack Ships. It does not seem unreasonable to expect a next day or two announcement on these expansions. I am also curious whether I should still expect my pre-orders for the four upcoming X-wing expansions alleged for the next few weeks and for the Clone Wars Starters, Squadrons, and the Card Pack to be fullfilled. It seems reasonable that they will be however this sort of news tends to disrupt all sorts of things and to bring unforeseen fallout. Again while my sympathies go out for those who have lost their employment because of this my pre-orders do not seem to have prevented that and those dollars spent (I had to pay in advance for these items) will not help those individuals and I am not a charity. I would like to know how this is going to effect me in the near term. I also point out that this sort of information being forthcoming will directly impact whether I am still present for the short, medium, and long term.

Hopefully this will fix the distributor issues for the FLGS. That has been a mess of Asmodee's own creation. I wonder how much blame for the sales not there has been misplaced on the minis design teams.