Ulf Beorstruk
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Posts posted by Ulf Beorstruk
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The Inquisitor is definitely the 'right' way to go, in so far as I've played that list many times and its always pretty good. I really want to stay at 4 ships though, because I just feel it works better right now.
List 1 is less dice reliant, but less potent as well. Tractor beam is interesting in that it makes dice reliance for offense less scary, since you're reducing the variance in defense reduction and hopefully the range bonus. Plan on committing your action to defense, and you're ok.
The last list I ran was Rexlar, Ryad, Howlrunner and Academy, and went 5-1 at the tournament, so this is an attempt to refine the concept of that list a bit. -
I have been playing around with a few variants of a PS 8 TIE list, and am torn which one to bring to the table tomorrow. I'm looking to the brain trust here, which one of these would you take? Our meta is very varied, so its got to be considered against any and everything.
List 1
Omega Leader (Juke, Comm Relay, Stealth Device)
Vessery (VI, Tie/D, Tractor Beam, Stealth Device)Howlrunner (Crackshot)
Academy Pilot
List 2
Omega Leader (Juke, Comm Relay)
Vessery (VI, Tie/D, Tractor Beam)
Scourge (Adaptability)
Zeta Leader (Adaptability)
The Omega/Vessery bromance is nothing new, but its what's driving this list. The insta-TL makes the Tractor Beam more accurate to take down the defense on the main target that the mini-swarm will burn down.
The first list is a lot more defensive and uses the the fourth ship as a block, while the second is about getting a lot of offense out of the TIEs. After Vessery's tractor and Omega's juke, you should hope there's some damage on the target to get Scourge going, and taking the stress on Zeta is really not that scary.
So, thoughts on the two lists? Which should I run?
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I'm big on flying 5x Cartel Marauders - it's entertaining and challenging. I'd love to see a title that emphasizes this type of play:
Title
0 Pts
Kihraxz Only
Gain one red die for every other friendly ship with Title that has the defender in arc, at range 1-3.
Gain one green die for every other friendly ship with Title that the defender has in arc, at range 1-3.
I think you could potentially strip the 'Kihraxz Only' line and put in something like 'PS3 or less' and allow it to be used on any ship. It could get a little ridiculous with an 8-ship Tie swarm... but I would risk it just so that list could be competitive again.
Am I reading this right that it would give 5 Kihraxz flying in during the opening engagement 7-dice primarily attacks each? That is way far on the potent side.
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I really like this, but especially at the lower point value games where you don't have epic ships feeding you TLs. As has been said, Reinforce is really good, so making it a hard choice with the other actions makes for an interesting gameplay mechanic.
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I don't get the personal investment against S-foils in any form.
It's an established thing they can do in the canon, both in games and movies.
It's an unused design space.
It's for a ship that needs an update.
Why not use it?
Just seems like a silly thing to care about.
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You can't tier individual ships either, or at least not practically. So much of the ship's value is in what you're combining it with in your list.
You could probably put together a tier list of how easy each ship is to work into a competitive list, but its probably more practical just to look at something like ListJuggler at how often each ship is showing up in high-performing lists.
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Punisher has boost, not barrel roll. Bwings and mist hunter would use large base barrel rolls, which as you say is really limited, especially since the same pack will give Bwings a non-action BR when they stress- heavy frame costs them half their extra maneuverability.How would heavy frame work with the barrel roll? Movement isn't really a game term, and if you read that as maneuvers then the Punisher's barrel roll is being really limited. If you meant movement to include the action, then it probably needs a better explanation of that. Seems really cheap compared to Hull and Shield Upgrades, of course.
Double-tapping ordinance still seems dangerously good, but if it were to have it then the Fire-Linked card would be how to have it, with range restrictions and one-time use. Had to check Tomax though, because that could have been trouble.
I like Overdrive, though PS 9 seems high.
I dond disagree about the effectiveness of doubletapping ordinance, but I think that its a thematic buff for an underpowered ship that is supposed to carry and simotaniously launch four times the bombers payload. Its not something any other ship should be able to match, because only the punisher has that many launchers.
Your cards disagree with you on the BR
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How would heavy frame work with the barrel roll? Movement isn't really a game term, and if you read that as maneuvers then the Punisher's barrel roll is being really limited. If you meant movement to include the action, then it probably needs a better explanation of that. Seems really cheap compared to Hull and Shield Upgrades, of course.
Double-tapping ordinance still seems dangerously good, but if it were to have it then the Fire-Linked card would be how to have it, with range restrictions and one-time use. Had to check Tomax though, because that could have been trouble.
I like Overdrive, though PS 9 seems high.
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Ok, went on a different track for these ones.
Scramjet Variant: This is directly porting over the title from the new TIE Striker. The initial reaction to the Striker was somewhat underwhelming for such a cool new ability to be added to the game, and I think this is because its joining the Imperial faction which already has a lot of really effective mobile ships. Scum, in contrast, really don't have an effective mobile fighter, and I think this could fill that role nicely. Lore-wise, this reflects the very large wing attachments that look to me like ramjets or scramjets. Points-wise, its got the same 0 cost as the Striker, which I think is very comparable as a ship and already 3 points cheaper, so I'm ok leaving this as 0. It is a bit of a drawback as well, as with the ship's dial the minimum effective distance forward it can move in a turn becomes 4. Giving it this title gives it a hell of a lot of vroom, which could be tricky to really effectively use, which I like for the idea of an overcharged, souped up scum ship. I also think it will be a lot of fun.
Vaksai Variant: This probably seems like you're getting a lot for the cost. Twice the effect of a hull upgrade, plus a regen ability comparable to the rebel regen options, is a lot for 5 points. However, this is I think balanced by the fact that the ship was already pretty significantly overcosted for what it could do, and this title does not really fix the big issue of this ship, which is maneuverability. Instead of mitigating the weaknesses, this makes the ship a bit less susceptible to them. What it gives the scum is a really rugged fighter that can go the distance as a support ship. Regen-wise, its probably slightly less effective than R2-D2, because even though the trigger is easier to achieve, it happens after the combat phase, and more significantly the Kihraxz's max shield of 1 means that it cannot retreat for several rounds to build back a stock of shields. For the lore, the Vaksai was a heavy-duty version of the Kihraxz, so I think it fits.
Vectored Deflectors: The game really doesn't favour all-purpose fighters or jousting ships right now, so this is an attempt to boost the joust a bit. Its a better version of the Concord Protectorate title, but where that ship wants to be right in at knife range and has the maneuverability and defense to get there, the Kihraxz it hoping to be exchanging long to medium range head to head fire. It takes up the missile slot, so taking this will mean sacrificing the ordinance role. The Kihraxz will be entirely reliant on being able to get into jousting situations. Given that, and that you're already paying for the missile upgrade slot, I think its a fair 0-cost alternative.
This isn't Kihraxz-only, so given the restrictions the other ships that can take it are the A-Wing, K-Wing, Z-95 and Scyk. For the A-Wing, I think this actually presents a pretty interesting choice with the Chardaan refit. The K-Wing gives up a lot in not being able to equip ordinance, but would still be possible to use with a turret. However, the K-Wing really doesn't want to be jousting, especially with a turret, so I don't think this would overbalance it. The Scyk certainly needs all the help it can get, so I'm not concerned there. The Z-95 is the only potential concern then among the other ships, as swarming them with this defensive buff might get out of hand. I'm not sure though, and the Headhunter already has less defense than the swarmable TIE. Still not sure.
So what do you all think of these? -
So investing the design space to make them better ordinance carriers probably isn't the way to go. They're in a really awkward spot between existing, better options, when you can go 5 points up for the uboat or down for the headhunter, as shown above.
So what is the reason to take it? The mechanics of the game really favour specialists over general purpose fighters, but it doesn't fit well to any specialization in the game.
It's definitely not an arc-dodger. It's not an ordinance platform. Thinking further on the Scyk titles, its not even a particularly good candidate for a cannon, as you're already paying for that native 3 primary attack. Scum just doesn't have the abilities to be rugged workhorses that Rebels can be through astros and support.
The suggestion above was that it should be embracing the jousting role, but how do you even do that in a system that has largely made jousting obsolete? The only ship that manages to do it well is the x7 Defender, so maybe that needs to be what we're looking at. Their dials are significantly different though, and the 2 agi hurts a lot in comparison, so even an identical version of the title wouldn't get it exactly right for them.
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Isn't one of the droids very similar to that? R5 astro lets you do that in the end phase without a roll for a point. Maybe drop it to only mitigating the damage on a hit result, and if it does you receive a stress? I think that would be ok for 2 points and a unique droid. But let me know what you think.
True, its easy to forget how bonkers better the Astromechs are to the equivalent Salvaged Astromechs. Compare R5 Astro to Salvaged Astro, which your card seems to fall between.
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I wouldn't allow either of those at my table. Munitions are already good. The problems with the TIE Bomber and Punisher are not with them. Predicting your needs is already built in to the cost of munitions, too.
These cards buff underpowered ships without buffing balanced ships. Does it matter that it makes munitions OP on a munition-based ship?
Yes, because of how it affects the game. The munition shot you're making with the ship is not underpowered, its how it performs the rest of the time. Making the munition attack twice is absolutely broken, no matter what platform is making them. You're not fixing any of the ship's problems, just overpowering its strength. Think how much better this is than even Corran. Especially when you happen to have exactly the right game-breaking munition equipped.
Speaking of which, Variable Loadout absolutely breaks the economy of munitions. The uncertainty in choosing munitions is already part of the cost. They should be more expensive if you know exactly what you want. Instead, you're discounting them and making them better. More importantly, letting you choose exactly what you need really gives you a ridiculous edge. It takes away the purpose of blind list making. It takes away the chance element of loadout. It adds a whole other step to the game that only it gets to take advantage of.
Archangelspiv reacted to this -
Really like this, solid work.
R5-G4 seems slightly strong, as that's a lot of potential damage mitigation. My recommendation would be to drop it to 2 points, then have it flip the card facedown without resolving its effects. Probably not strictly necessary though.
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I wouldn't allow either of those at my table. Munitions are already good. The problems with the TIE Bomber and Punisher are not with them. Predicting your needs is already built in to the cost of munitions, too.
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they had something similar to that for fighters in the star trek game. I'm pointedly trying to keep it simple and avoid having unique rules for formations or extra stat block cards.
Fair enough, I meant more that looking at some of their upgrades and abilities could give some cool ideas for you own about how groups might fight differently.
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One:
Just give them a unique ability such as an in-built "outmaneuver ability".
When you are outside the firing arc of the defender, you may reroll up to 2 dice
It would also be interesting because in contrast to the Protectorate fighter title, where you want to be in arc if the enemy.
Or two:
Make them attack or defend more precisely
"During attacking or defending, roll one additional die. After rolling, cancel one die"
I like these ideas in general, but maybe not for the Kihraxz.
As was said, they're not meant for outmaneuvering. Their dial isn't terrible, but its not great either, and they have no native repositioning ability. The scum already have (at least in theory) a dedicated interceptor and knifefighter, so the first idea there would probably fit better in one of their roles. I'd like it a lot on the M3-A.
The second ability feels more like an EPT or a pilot ability. Nothing about the ship inherently makes it feel like it should be more precise than anyone else.
I know 'feeling' isn't a very objective way of assessing things, but those both seem like they could belong to nearly any ship in the game. I'd like the fix to give the Kihraxz a defined role, rather than simply make it better than everything else.
Punning Pundit reacted to this -
Have you seen the D&D Attack Wing game?
Another flightpath system game made by Wizkids that actually had quite a lot going for it before they decided to cancel it. It had troop blocks, 6 minis that all had their own base and lined up in a block, moved as one, had one stat line, etc. The card showed the stats for 1 mini, then then it came with tokens in the shape of the stat line on the card, showing the stats for 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 mini units. At max size, they had a lot of attack and no defense, then as it got lower they lost attack and gained defense, much like you've described above. You might want to take a look at their system, see if there's anything that might be useful for your swarm idea.
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Allow the Kihraxz to take the 'Heavy Scyk' titles.
The Kihraxz really doesn't have a role right now, which almost fits because in the lore it was designed as a general purpose fighter. However, it was also stated to have been designed modular, so that a large number of variants could be made by customers.
This fix would both fit with the lore, and give the Kihraxz something to do. It beefs it up a little, which it definitely needs, and gives it the option to either become a cannon-bearing gunboat, or carry two different missiles, or make use of extra munitions, giving it a role.
Even with this, its not going to be setting the world on fire, but it might make it at least somewhat usable.
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On 2016-12-06 at 11:21 AM, No Pickles said:That definitely looks cool. I guess it hinges on what the missions / encounters / modules are like. Do you have any made up we can try?
I am working on a module right now, based on one of the sidequests we played through in our alpha-testing campaign.
Having a GM running the NPCs makes a big difference in difficulty, as even the best AI procedural system has limits. The enemy's cards being hidden also makes it a lot harder than you might think, as even a humble Scyk could suddenly have a lot of difficult options. There are definitely things on the players' side, like more munitions, but one of the aims was to make PCs much more skillful, but not a whole lot more survivable.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Ialxdpp9QBNEQzSURyN0Q3X0k/view?usp=sharing
X-Wing Saga is an attempt to introduce an RPG element into X-Wing, specifically calling back to the Star Wars Saga roleplaying system. The intention is that the vast majority of the in-game combat will take place using the X-Wing system, which remains largely unchanged. Character statistics and skills are introduced to provide a framework for roleplaying outside of combat, while talents and class abilities allow your character to become a more skilled and dangerous pilot throughout their career.
It is important to note that this system takes on a more cinematic approach to characters, treating them as heroes far beyond in ability what even elite aces can do a standard X-Wing game. These are not meant to be balanced in the way a competitive game must be. While heroes have a wide suite of abilities, they are also often facing off against overwhelming odds or seemingly impossible tasks, or might suddenly find themselves up against an enemy Non-Player Character every bit as skilled as them. This is not a game about competitive balance, but storytelling within the X-Wing system.
These rules also draw inspiration from EU sources such as the Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron novels, and flight sims such as X-Wing and Tie Fighter. Some changes have been made to better reflect these sources, including placing a greater emphasis on munitions and making ion weapons far more dangerous.
The rules as presented assume some familiarity with both the X-Wing and Star Wars Saga roleplaying system, although it should be recognizable to anyone with experience with a d20 game. Most of the actual gameplay rules of the Saga system are not referred to as combat is intended to be almost entirely using the X-Wing system. However, it can be integrated into a more full version of the Saga RPG very easily.
Initial alpha testing has been done, but we would greatly appreciate any feedback or comments. -
You forgot to add Kyle Katarn to that.
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Is this telling us that X-Wings will never get a S-foils dual card?
This would be very sad.
Because we really need X-wings to flap around mid-combat.
Why not? It's something they can do in the movies and games, and its a way to add versatility to a ship that desperately needs it. I don't get to hate for it/
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I just can't see ground assault working well for this game.
First is the issue of maneuvers. The T-65's atmospheric top speed is 1,050 km/h. Couldn't find a speed for an AT-AT, but since Luke could out-jog it and human walking speed is 5 km/h, let's give it a generous top speed of 10 km/h. If you want maneuvers that fit with the background then, then AT-AT's max movement is 1/24th of the 1 speed template (if its on a small base).
Then there's relative power of weapons. The speeders on Hoth couldn't hurt the AT-ATs, since as they say its 'too thick for blasters'. Starships don't use blasters though, they use laser cannons. In one of the Rogue Squadron books they go up against some AT-ATs again, but flying their X-Wings instead, and absolutely obliterate them. The speeders are the equivalent of army jeeps with a mount for an assault rifle, compared to modern fighter cannons.
The only way ground assault could be made balanced is if it was a self-contained expansion. You can use ground units and speeder-level vehicles against each other, but not against general X-Wing stuff.
Hateful 8's Tie list help
in X-Wing Squad Lists
Posted
Results: 5-1 with List 2, overall quite happy with it
Game 1: Rey and Poe
Mowed through it, got the TB on the Falcon and devastated it, then it was just a matter of chasing down Poe. Lost Scourge only, and only because I was stupid and careless with him.
Game 2: Triple Scouts
Took down a scout a turn, or near enough. Interesting mindlinked list, but uboats are pretty dead in the water right now.
Game 3: Imp Vets (Vader, Inquisitor, Fel)
He played it a bit too safe to start out, and I got on top of him early. Took out the Inquisitor before he could get his procket off, and then was able to block and eliminate the rest fairly easily. Four 8's is an interesting match against 3 9's, because you don't need to worry about what you're saving for defense.
Game 4: Imp Vets (Omega, Vessery, Inquisitor)
Similar to the previous game, got on top of them and didn't let up. The extra ship for shooting and blocking is so useful in these matchups.
Game 5: Dengaroo
Only game I lost, Dengar taking out two of my ships in the opening engagement. Rolled maybe two evades the whole game. Dengaroo is just my absolute heel. Only managed to beat it once, ever (mindlinked Palob, Guri and Manaroo).
Game 6: Palp Vets
Swarmed the shuttle quickly, burned it down, then blocked out the rest and won a close one. Only had Vessery left by the end.
Overall quite happy with the list, you're throwing a lot of dice on both offense and defense and if you can get your blocks in you've got a very good chance against the three ace lists or big fat turrets. Its fun to fly too, all acting at 8.