You have all you need! That's what my fleet is. ISD just to sit on a shelf and look at. Perhaps another raider for more ordnance experts and they are fun little picket ships.

Also, this. Which goes to my predictability caveat.

Well, that's the funny part. Exactly like the tactic, as envisioned by the fictional character, it works in Armada. The MC-80 is a trundling mess. If a Star Destroyer gets you in it's front arc perpendicular to your path; there is zero chance of you getting away. However, with those MASSIVE side arcs, there is almost no way that a Star Destroyer jousting with you can avoid your side arc while you blitz past them. You'll take at least 2 solid shots from his front...and he'll take just as many return shots...if not more depending on activation control and positioning. Once you jet past his front arc, he can't turn to get it in sight for a while while you just lazily bank and keep him in your own sights. Of course, there's tons of other factors; but I honestly believe that MC80's excel at Slashing. It also draws fire onto you that you might otherwise want off another ship like a closing Nebulon-B with heavy frontal firepower. Basically, yes OP. Slash to your hearts content. Be sure to support it and commit to it though. And don't be predictable.

Trollin gud bro

You fellas aren't helping create an assurance of game balance for us concerned Imperial commanders, you know that right? I ended up losing that Game by 30 pts, which is almost a draw... But still. Lost despite that. I'm trying my best to think up some good anti ackbar stuff, but i need people to play against. =( My primary issue is that I despise tailored lists. Sure, you can invent some specific list to beat Ackbar, but, to me, that's really unsporting (unless they ask for you to bring the pain) and wasteful of actual improving play imo. I build my lists specifically to be all-comers at all times. Thus, I would argue, that you find out what kind of list sounds fun and put it out there and then refine it in play or in points to assist with problem lists.

I highly doubt they'll save 30%. I don't think these types of products are as affected by mass as usual shipping...plus the savings on replacements from damaged components and, as Toqtamish stated: visibility on shelves for us nerds who aren't painfully aware of the product.

I want to, at least once, play a 1-2 thousand point game with multiple cap ships on each side blasting away. Of course, I still prefer the quick(er) normal game and I like designed around constraints that tournament points/style provide. So it'd be a rare thing indeed. Also why I'm not all that interested in X-Wing epic play.

Your point is valid. However, my point (in theoretical land) stands. Of course, only if you have Turrets in game (which is one of my complaints). It doesn't matter what the perfectly flown game looks like. You just have to look at the fact that, against turrets, you can't shoot them w/o them shooting you. IE dice can make you lose no matter how perfectly you fly. But, don't get me wrong, I adore X-Wing in every way save turrets+dice.

Speed is as much a weapon in my hands as the ships themselves....but I admit, I still haven't figured out this darned ship. I fly Glads way better. Hmm... Ozzel bears considering. List planning..... I kinda like taking a nav token first turn and then I can "mini-ozzel" him as needed. Speed 2 is gold for Raiders, but Speed 4 is obviously amazing for getting into position over the first half the game.

My stance is simply this: In X-Wing it is possible to lose fly, literally, a perfect game and lose because of dice. In Armada; that simply isn't possible. My only caveat would be that if, theoretically, both Armada admirals flew identically perfect games and had identically reliably lists, then dice would naturally be the decider. Of course, I don't see this situation ever happening in reality

Actually: the dice modifier systems of both games is what's interesting, to me. X-Wing, of course, is more reliant on actions to modify dice. Armada, too, can do that through actions...but it's absolutely more limited than X-Wing. CF simply adds one and the token re-rolls one. Compare that to re-rolling all the ones you want vs boosting the hit chance by quite a few percentage points. However, the fact that you can build your entire fleet to mitigate dice rolls to a point where random chance really can't devastate your plans is key to how Armada plays and feels. It's true, in Wave 1, I had a number of instances where my well-lain plan was foiled by dice and tokens. I've had "scary" VSD front arc shots bounce off and do next to nothing numerous times. Of course, that's my fault for relying on a single point of attack. However, my list, now, is set up to mitigate as much randomness as possible. I have screed to guarantee all of my ships at least do something when I get in close. I have APTs to guarantee i'll lay on some damage cards. I have HTTs with Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts on my VSD to ensure I'll land something scary on anything I skillfully get in arc and blast. This harkens back to my commends months ago about the exponential increase in ship value when upgrading it. Sure, you can take another Raider for the cost of my VSD upgrades...but both ships' reliability are much less than the single beefed-up VSD. This is where my comments on sacrificing ship power for activations comes form. Sure you can take 6 Raiders, but you'll not have much to increase their reliability...so if you fly really well and line up shots expertly, THEN roll poor you've screwed yourself before the game started with such a "random" list. Either way...Armada is simply a masterpiece in miniature wargames. I love it to death.

AFMK-IIs are amazing warships. They might looks fugly as sin, but they fly like butter and shoot like chocolate (esp with ackbar)

My game against Doobleg showed me that "predictability" of ackbar conga lines...of course I was dumb and didn't quite realize the weakness at the time. I think the more mobile lists with options will fair better in the long run. I'm actually impressed in that I think the way Armada is designed, the profile of the MC-80 and other rebel ships, and the text of Ackbars card: FFG has expertly created a situation in which the famed (in EU at least) Ackbar slash is actually one of the best tactics to pull off with him and Home One. Whenever I do a rebel list with Ackbar in an MC-80 I plan on diving dead-center and pounding each half of the enemy fleet with some variant of ship/squadron depending on the terrain and deployment. I suggest it to my brother every time he builds his rebel list, as it helps to bypass the front-arc deadzone and Achilles heel of the MC-80 imo. I'm just glad the Rebels have a "powerhouse" admiral that brings the threat level of the faction up a few notches, even when he's not taken. Helps with parity of the factions I feel.

Indeed. I use it as a crit-delivery missile...APT with screed and Prescision Strike as my red allows me to pull 15-30 points per shot with him (and Demolisher). If I have fighters to shoot, the side arc is meh so I'll take them!

Bitharne vs Iskander4000 tentatively set for 9PM PST (-8GMT) Thursday night. If I get a shift at work we might have to make it an hour later.

Exactly this: except for the "400 points just isn't enough." Well, yes, but let me put forth the argument that I gave my brother, who feels the same... BECAUSE 400 is a little low and calls for such sweeping compromises is what makes it the most balanced and interesting point level. If you had more points, then you can very easily take max squadrons, 4 activations, AND lots of bells and whistles. Simply: you'd get your cake and eat it too, and so would everyone else. Then you'd end up in the Warhammer-land of which flavor cake is best. I never really considered the point levels in Warhammer as being one of the issues that hurt the balance of the game (Very few, I feel, would argue that Warhammer fantasy or 40k was terribly well balanced) beyond the sheer lazyness/incompetence of the book writers. However, I think it might actually be a factor; and with a game with only two factions to worry about and a MUCH better balance team working on it...I honestly feel that having a fairly contentious limit on points drives a far more balanced and interesting game. So, I agree, that 3 activations is pretty much standard, while 4 is likely more "ideal". The problem lies in the opportunity cost of getting 4+ activations on the rest of your list. You'll, as i've argued before, dump squadrons or power to get those numbers. Of course, the beauty of Armada immediately shows through here is that if you like swarming people with raiders, it's viable and fun but you'll have to make sure you can play around your limited ship power and relative lack of squadron assets. If you want to run 2 Large ships you'll have to dance around your lack of activation presence, but it can be done if you understand your strengths and limit your weaknesses. Armada is amazing, and 400 points is perfect imo. (Round time for tourneys is too high though)

From my experiences...I can never use my raider for this. No one seems to take squadrons hehe

Wait a month till someone makes some epic Admiral Vader list...

Amen brutha, amen.

I actually did some measurements using movie shots compared to those models. Taking into acount perspective the longer, sleeker Disney version is more movie accurate. It also has a bridge that is better proportioned than the FFG ISD, of which the bridge is not wide enough. As for the colours, white is the colour they had in the movies. I much prefer it to the medium grey FFG has given them, but that's a matter of personal taste. And? It doesn't change the fact that I like FFGs ISD more: dimensions and colors. Looking at some of the google-search images, it looks to be somewhere between the two OP pictures. Not as narrow and not as "squished". However; I'm super glad they didn't do the ANH model, that tower looks like bantha poodoo (I know lots of you like it for some unknown reason ) I also keep getting **** when I say how awful the ISD in rebels look: it makes me wana throw up the model is so bad heh

The right-hand ISD in OP looks like complete tosh. Doesn't measure up to any of the images from the movies as far as i can see. Perhaps the ISD FFG released is "stubby"...but I'd argue that it looks better. The primary reason I love the VSD over the ISD is the sleeker, thinner verticle profile; and I feel that the ISD FFG sold us takes on some of those aspects to make it look better. Also, contrary to the above points, the dark grey is FAR better looking than the white from the movies and pic above imo.

Well said.

@Netace, I completely disagree with almost your entire stance on dice; though not, necessarily, the statements you made. Your descriptions is exactly why I never cared for 40k, the game of: "let's just dice off and see who wins!" I've always preferred Fantasy due to the movement phase and positioning being more important than dice: Armada very much mirrors fantasy over 40k, and X-Wing vice versa. You state that you can't not take hits if you can shoot in Armada. That's very misleading imo. Sure, but you can also get two shots off when they get one; you can trade a 5black3red for a 2red1blue attack; etc. X-Wing's movement phase is gorgeous; but the core of the game is about dice-offs and there is simply no side-stepping that case. I roll around with 8health 1agility ships due to this factor, and I can still just melt if they roll well regardless. In Armada, you can always respond. You can always plan. You can mitigate damage reliably (If you consider their armaments that might limit you: XI-7s for instance). What's more, there are many more ways to curb random chance in Armada. I have seen my "devastating" victory front arc shot bounce off and do nothing...hence I have loaded her to the nines with rerolls, extra dice, and a turbo to mitigate enemy tokens when dice don't go my way and give accuracies I might need. So yes, dice are important, that much is obvious. However, Armada is, in my estimation, the absolutely best disigned dice game to reward good play and mitigate the kinds of absurd events that can stem from 40k or X-Wing dice-offs.

I'm of the opinion that Armada doesn't really have these situations in any meaningful amounts. Sure, freak events might happen where you roll up an average of 2-3 damage every single attack and seem to get no where; but it's usually down to the context and other choices that make "bad rolls" seem to lose games for you. For instance, I could claim this on my first Sullust game: demolisher get's 1-shot by dominator. He had a really good roll and killed me outright. Of course: A. I deployed so that the GSD was in the path of the VSD B. In my attempt to grab a token I barely bumpled a rock, that crit me and drained some shields (didn't come into play IIRC) C. I moved too far which let me into his blue band D. He rolled up enough damage to bring me to 1 Hull remaining E. The crit happened to be double damage All of these events lead up to a situation that, due to the impressive roll, seemed like "it came down to dice". When that is obviously not the case when you look into the context. So far, I've never felt like I've lost a game due to to dice like I do in X-Wing (X-Wing is that game, hence I generally play a few times and tend to use beefy ships that don't rely on green dice so I feel less cheated when my 5green dice Ace dies to a long-range turret ship) It seems, as another post on here is discussing, that deployment is far more important than dice; and, especially, your positioning, activation order, and objective play. That's why I love this game so much: it is the first mini-game I've played where I feel that you are rewarded for taking options instead of redundancies; and it seems to be almost completely about how you play and not how you roll. Of course, dice are dice, and they can screw any well-lain plan...this is why I love all the options to mitigate RNG on dice in Wave 2.

Seems like bidding to ensure second player is the norm...or at least always taking second when you have the option.