Intel Sweep is only calculated at the end of the game. It awards 75 points to a player if he has more tokens than the opponent. Have y'all been playing it wrong? Does this likely account for everyone's debate on the topic? It makes a heck of a lot of difference. Most definitely important to note. 75 points is about 34% of the points needed for 10-0 (221)...so it's useful but I can ignore it and kill your list, and still win..though the margin is less in that I can't lose ANYTHING. Of course, I don't see how you can get 3 objectives with a VSD before I can get 3 with a GSD, esp with engine techs. The hard-er part will be that you can place your objective ship last...but if you spread out, my combined force will simply decimate you unless you're also combined force..which means I can easily kill your objective ship first and/or you're not picking up objectives? Seriously, you don't want to take two VSD-2s against a gunnery teamed VSD-1 head-on while I flank you, but there seems like no way you can avoid that outcome with 3 honking bricks. If anything, Dangerous Territory seems like a better choice for your list so you can just run over rocks for complete freedom of movement to engage as you see fit, and in order for your opponent to score he has to take hits from the rocks and such.

This is why I love my setup, and see it as the best way to run a fighter wing...you can handle even a 100-point fighter-only enemy while rhymer and friend nuke enemies. Essentially if you look at it like a 100 (or 134) point ship that has muliple parts. If you invest all those points as anti-fighter or as anti-ship you have a ROCK or a PAPER: ie you can be easily countered by the opponent based on their choice and end up wasting a ton of points. Yet, if you take the middle ground and invest that 100 point ship as 60-70% anti-fighter and 30-40% anti-ship...then you ALWAYS have a safe anti-ship investment even if you're against a 100% anti-fighter "squadron-ship". And if they invest ZERO points in squadrons, then you add in those extra fighters to do half effectivess towards ships...and if you're running certain objectives (superior positions is basically my god heh) those points spent on crappy 8point TIES are suddently the most cost effective choice in the entire game. As for AA dice, against an all-ship list with decent AA fire...attack with your ships. Unless they have gunnery team they simply wont be shooting at them as, like it has been pointed out, squadrons are semi-irrelevant to the game. Of course, i'd trade losing all my TIEs to get 1-3 50/50 rolls per fighter for 15 VPs a hit with SupPos running and 2dice AA everywhere.

Starts to get scary when you consider that I'll have 1VSD, 1GSD, 1Raider, and about 9-10 squadrons on hand to combat that. Then again my VSD can delete almost any one of your ships with an attack and has gunnery team...so i'm curious to see how that works out. An extension of my views on Armada is that naked ships are just as bad as no-squadrons. This isn't like X-Wing...you're paying a silly premium for ships compared to what the upgardes cost. My 88 point Demolisher is exponentially more powerful than a naked gladiator..and I would argue it's more useful to a list thna TWO gladiators. So I find naked all-ship lists to be a curious fad of people wanting to replicate swarms from X-Wing and the ever-prolific BBBBZ or new KKKKK scum list to come. My argument, however, is that those things will not hold out strong in competitive play. Sure you'll have fun, but 2 naked VSDs and 3 naked GSDs against my list, to me, is a very simple win with some interesting tactical decisions to make. Of course...this is just from a theoretical framework. Perhaps rolling out 5 imp ships vs my 3 will prove too much dice to handle? Perhaps you'll obliterate my ships fast enough that the withering fire of TRD doesn't matter that much...I'd love to test that though. Armada is, imo, one of the best balanced wargame/miniaturegames ever made. So I want to play infinity games to learn all the fun stuff that's possible, effective, and silly.

Intel sweep is at end of game iirc. A single 75 point objective for most tokens? Fire Lanes is at end of turn. I think each turn?

Oh I'm with you have no fear, so much that I think FFG missed a trick by not making the squadron requirement 50-100 points, not 0-100. I'm just concerned about the number of all ship builds I keep facing (though I have started to get a lot better at beating them now!) Free wins

I'd argue this point...problem is if you build a balanced list anyone who ditches squads will outnumber you. My argument is that not taking squadrons hurts you against sauadron lists. In said situation, my squadrons have a chance of deleting a GSD on their own. And if I "give them" first turn they have 2 objectives that severely favor me having squadrons. The objectives are the things that balance what you're worried about.

What about the concerns of investing that many points in fighters which are frankly almost useless against a ship only fleet? And two bombers? You can't do much real work with two bombers can you? I've no concerns to this effect...and to be honest I hope the rest of Armada players keep their thinking on squads so my games are a little easier to win As stated already, bomber heavy lists are poor investment...of you spend 60-80 points on Bombers and play me you've essentially just thrown those points in the toilet. My 3 bomber ships can go and do anything they want (3 black dice, 2 that can crit is very useful regardless of what people want to claim) while my fighters shred your squadrons. Once in done, my fighters can start shooting 50/50 shots at everything. If you were stupid and played SupPos you'll just lose, statically I'm getting 5-6 tokens a turn if youre all ships...that's just bad juju. I'll get less if you have fighters, but in pure ship builds: a very popular aspect it seems, I'll take my 5 fighters and 3 bombers over another victory any day. Partly due to the fact that I'd rather fly a balanced list, and I'll take the opportunity cost hit on some lists so that I'm not obliterated by others. Tldr: no, 2 Bombers isn't too little, more than 2 is too much. It's an issue to too much, Armada is one of the few warts ew that supremely rewards spreading your forces and not specializing/stacking.

TRD...I find it funny that most people mocked the empire for losing the death star to snubfighters, and now we have new imps repeating those mistakes.

I was mistaking your list for a rebel one...so ya you'd always have the bid on me as I won't give up 11 points for it. My philosophy is a balanced list that can beat anything in any situation I'd I okay well. I get your focused play style, I just feel it's too limited as if someone happens to hard-counter it you've kinda wasted a game. I'd rather have a wet sock that had a chance against paper, Rock, and scissors rather than one of the three big guys.

I see some odd things concerning squads, lots of people taking bomber heavy loadouts with very poor anti-fighter choices. I would argue that loading up on Bombers is worse than taking another ship over the squads...if you're going to invest in squads make sure you can engage with them. I run Rhymer, a bomber, vader, howl, and 2 each of squints and eyes. That's enough firepower to hold off a full squad of fighter-type ships. It also lets me overwhelmingly destroy bomber-heavy lists while my Bombers are off doing the real work. I noticed complaints that Bombers are getting tied up, I think this is why. If you don't have sufficient fighters you can't screen...and as imps your ties are fast enough to keep your bombers back while you set up a screen to engage their fighters and follow that move up with a press forward with ship-threating blackdice. Don't skimp if you run bombers...the risk is too great imo.

They're fast and agile, but again I've not played those kinds of missions since I have to take my ship I want unloading black dice away from the fight to collect things. Maybe when I'm at 400 with a raider. Till then I'll take outpost and come in from the side to collapse a flank while my squads and demolished zip around back and rake fire into the lumbering beasts. I would like to point out, that reason I think Armada is vastly superior to X-Wing is the much reduced effect of dice. I just had a game of xwing on vassal that I lost because: dice. Pure and simple. Armada doesn't seem to have that issue...and if it comes up you'll see it happen 100x more in xwing in proportion. As you said, his dice hurt a lot, but your not taking anything to stop his bombers hurt much more. You also said you could likely have still won if you played better even with some dice stacking against you. I really find this compelling, as my loses in armada never seem to feel like I got screwed, I just know I can fix what I lost to (you stated the same). Basically, best designed game I've played yet PS: still interested on your take of MY objectives, as it's good to look into how you'd play as first player too.

True, but you still have to nav-command every few turns...but perhaps that's just worth it. Problem is high speed as the closer you get the more vulnerable your flanks get depending on the situation. As it stands, I just click better with imperial ships

I've been wanting to try nav teams, but can't find a good setup. Neb-bs with raymus sound perfect...hard ships to use, so figuring a method is always welcome.

A. I'd like to test some of this in Vassal if anyone is willing...as I still see 3 VSDs with no squadrons as easy prey to a balanced heavy-hitter like what I have. B. Only once of your VSDs can capture stuff, and it's slow. The issue would be me not knowing which of your 3 destroyers you'll nominate, but if I'm near it I can just blast it down and my faster glad can swoop up more than you can get in 2 turns to net that 75point bonus? Maybe I'm wrong as I've never played Intel so don't know just how much of a pain it might be. C. If I choose outpost, i'd know where your VSDs will be. You'll have a hard time blasting my bombers away before I get in close and unload enough damage to kill a destroyer each turn if I roll well. If I surround you from multiple fronts with bombers/fighters you won't get great return from your anti-squad dice...and If you don't have gunnery teams (don't recall) I can just sit in front of you if SupPos isn't the mission and you won't even shoot at me since you'll want to hit my big ships. Again, while my opponent did deploy a little staggered, so It was 1VSD against my VSD and Glad and bombers at a time I was able to delete the ship in 2 rounds of shooting easy. Now, if you deploy close enough to support well, you won't have the space to try to flank me...essentially you'll have two VSDIIs facing off to my one VSD-I with Gunnery Team while being flanked by a demonlisher and 8 squadrons, 3 of which with full-use-black-dice. As people have said, you'll have to use navigate commands a lot in order to turn your VSDs properly to engage, so you'll not be reapiring or empowering your attacks as much as I will. I can just sit back and repair shields while I do proportionally more damage per turn to BOTH the ships with my single VSD. Keep in mind, I'm confident in my VSD being able to tango toe-to-toe with two IMPERIAL star destoryers long enough for my support ships to finish the job. So i'm sure as hell not worried about trading shots against two Vic-IIs. Then again, perhaps I roll poorly and you roll well and knock me out? Perhaps I flub some manuevers? So far Armada games seem to be extremely resilient to bad-dice, unlike in X-Wing...so much of the swingyness is simply gone. So I'm not too worried about it...my main worry is not getting a full 10-0 to take first place I am wondering, though, as we have the same point totals. If you ended up going first, what mission would you choose? Precision Strike, Fleet Ambush, or Superior Positions?

I did forget that CR-90's have Support Teams...interesting aspect to it. It can double-2-click via Engine Techs on command at any speed...very impressive to get in double-arc rear-shots out of the little buggers. Since I suck with rebels, perhaps I'll practice that kind of settup.

Just place the regular tokens, and put these on top of them...remove as needed

Agreed. I really want to plan out my Raider addition to my Imperial Armada and see how much I can spend on my VSD.

Amazing

Looks interesting. It's 299pts, mine is also that. So we'd roll for first player. If I lost I'd choose Superior Positions (My blue as well), if you lost you might be inclined to choose the same over Ambush or Precision Strike. So most likely it'll be a pitched battle. I like the tactics, but I always wonder how you'll do against squadrons...esp with SupPos, flanking CR-90's are in extreme danger to swarms of squadrons nailing them in the aft arc. Only 5 damage needs to land...I have 3 black dice and 5 blue...best case gives me 75vp and 55 for your ship just from my squadrons. I point this out due to people's seeming love of non-squadron lists opens them up to severe dangers like I just outlined. That said, it looks interesting and plays towards one of the rebel's primary strengths: kiting and circle-strafing. Esp if an opponent is dumb enough to take Advanced Gunnery, you can put out some really impressive damage at long range. This is amazing against VSDs the like...however with ISDs in Wave 3 there is likely to be less ships you can simply avoid most of the game (VSDs being the only ship at speed 2, baring the MonCal if it's 2...but it can tango with you at long range). Focus fire might really murder things early/fast. Which is nice. Speed 4 corvettes with Engine Techs are beyond agile...though with OLP they forgo damage output to burn tokens early. Of course burning off braces from heavy ships will make your 2-4 round shooting really hurt at long range. Interesting list. I just always have to point out squadron's are dangerous in all-ship lists...esp if you take an objective that benefits them more than you (Superior Positions). Might wana rethink that blue to Intel or Dangerous Territory (I think this is best).

Honestly, I feel that having as many Squadron commands (esp paying for them) as you do actual squadrons isn't the best idea. Firstly, once one dies you're not wasting them. Second, once you're stuck in, your commands might better be spent trying to obliterate enemy ships or fixing holes in yours. I run similar squadron compliments but only with a single "carrier" VSD. Esp with Rhymer, once you get set up and screen him (engage enemies) you're wasting commands telling him to shoot when he has a medium range threat-bubble. I'd dedicate one VSD to combat and the other to mothership or drop some firepower (an interceptor and bomber) for more basic TIEs to order around. Also: objectives? These are very important to your list.

Interesting that MC-30's actually get speed 4. However, I noticed they are unlikely to get support teams (Engine Techs). I'd rather have my Gladiator with Engine Techs and Wulff (or Tarkin) any day of the week. Said glad is speed 4, while having more control over the end of their maneuver (they can hook back hard with a 2 turn that a CR-90 couldn't make even with the same clicks on a 4-range move). Not only that, this ship has the ability to throttle up and down MUCH better than either rebel ship...much faster to slow down especially since ETechs is optional, so they can essentially bleed 2 speed off in a turn if they want. Interesting how well FFG is making ships niche, especially with some people pointing out that both factions (after wave 2 especially) will play similar...though I think those people are simply mistaken. Of course, the MC-30 is likely to have some really interesting combos that makes it the rebellion's mirror to the Gladiator, yet makes it function in an utterly unique role that no imp ship can truly match.

I have to admit I don't feel I entirely understand what you're saying here. Advanced Gunnery is bad for me, or for them? I think that Advanced Gunnery is worst for me because it doesn't generate me any points, rather, it likely costs me them as my opponent flanks my objective ship and gets double value for it. Sure, it may be possible for me to sweep their list in the process, but keeping my opponent in my forward arcs is much harder when they aren't incentivized to move somewhere specific due to objectives. I don't think they can beat 3 VSDs, but I do expect them to always be able to take down one. Are you saying Contested Outpost is good for them, or for me? Obviously, smashing ships together and unloading dice is precisely what I want. I'm also unclear about the phrase "points denial". I am indeed intending to deny my opponent from getting the objective points, but it's not like it's just stalling...getting those points wins me the game. And 30 shields and 30 hull helps keep me there. I think this type of list gets worse in 400 points, because the threat of fighters goes up, and a fighter screen may be required, which means dedicating enough fighters that the concept of blanking your opponent's fighter screen becomes moot. With regards to the concern about playing for a draw, 3 VSD, if placed spread out, can cover a lot of the board. If your opponent slows down and then speeds past you they may not be in range for long, but with effective manoeuvring it's not unreasonable that you might get enough of a shot to take out a small ship like a corvette. If your opponent also is playing tanks and wants to turtle, you may indeed have a draw. But at least the extra firepower of Advanced Gunnery would give you the edge in breaking the stalemate. Advanced gunnery is bad for your opponent. Essentially you pick this is an star destroyer player to force people to choose your yellow or blue objective.The problem I have with this type of list, esp with your blue, is that it lets your opponent take you piecemeal. If you spread out I can engage 1-2 of your destroyers and focus down one at a time. Even outpost (which is what I would Prob pick), let's me roll up your flank with all of my mobile firepower and unload into one ship at a time. A demolisher Rolling your flanks and stern backed with 3 black dice squads and 5 blue dice squads WILL annihilate your ships at a break-neck speed...I've done it once and the sheer size and unresponsive was of your destroyers will not allow them to respond well to a flank being assaulted heavily. Essentially I'll give up 30-60 points from the outpost while I focus on sweeping you from the board. perhaps I'll err and get caught with a VSD volley or two that'll cripple me and hurt my win, but I feel any balanced list would be able to engage you in a favorable position to reduce the danger of those VSDII fronts.

So, I started with a list to help bring some love to the X-Wings for myself. Tarn and Hobbie made the cut with Y's as I love ion turrets...that control. After playing around and seeing some builds (Thanks to Mark B) I saw a very interesting combo for B-wings. So here's what i've put together so far: B-Wing Blue Squad (29) *Fire Control System *Flechette Cannon *Tactician *E2 for above X-Wing Rookie Pilot (23) *R3-A2 Y-Wing Gold Squad (24) x2 *Ion Cannon Turret *BTL-A4 *R2 All my ships are PS2, so I get the flexibility of choosing my shots. With my B-Wing and X-Wing combined, I can toss 3 stress onto a target that both have shots on. I really like this B-Wing, as it synergies with my fleet while bringing some heavy punch when we get in close and start blasting away at R1. At range 3 I can flechette someone the R3-A2 to double-stress. At range 2, the B can double-stress on his own, or use normal cannons if enemy is range 2 and already stressed to pile on more and do reasonable damage. The reason I like two stressers, and two ioners is the combo of both. First long-range shots give me attack that can stress, and one attack that guarnatees it. This should allow me to get my BTLs into range 2, keep my stressers back and ion/stress my primary target/targets. Once I have a turn of ion/stress, It should be reasonable to keep it up for a good portion of the fight in many cases. Esp against fat turrets and dangerous enemies like Fel and the like. Furthermore, BTL's are great when combined with Ion's as they allow for simultaneous control, and respecitable damage output. Much like the new TLT it allows me to pop out two attacks that I'd expect 1-2 damage from total. Against fat turrets i can ion/stress it and essentially pour 3dice primary and 3dice ion shots inot them over and over till they die or fly off the board. So not only do I have the control I love, but BTL gives me extra punch I might be missing from BBBBZ lists and such. Lastly, the R2 is great on BTL's as you don't have the turret to fall back on, so after you K turn or get unexpected stress you can shed it and keep your target in your sights fairly effectively. How's it look guys?

After watching a game with Mark B, and one of his double Firespray lists with Tacticians, I was inspired to apply them to something I've been toying with recently: HoBYY (Hobbie with R3-A2, 2 BTL Ion Y's and a B with flechette cannon). Problem was that Hobbie always went first, and Flechette cannon can only stress and unstressed target...so: X-Wing Rookie with R3-A2 2x Y-Wing Goldies with BTL, R2s, and Ions B-Wing with FCS, E2 mod, Tactician, and Flechettes I'm pretty sure Tactician triggers after the entire cannon attack, so at range 3 my B can ignore a green dice and stress my target, at range 2 he can double stress a target, and range 1 he can unload with 4 dice and a TL/Focus for heavy firepower. Not to mention I can always activate my Rookie last and double/tripple stress a target after my B has fired. Lastly, I have my favorite rebbel ships (BTL Ion Y's with R2s) to provide amazing control and reliable damage with deceptively-good dogfighting powers due to R2. So, it's an aside, but it points out some other uses of R3-A2 instead of all-your-eggs syndrome (I like it on a Rookie for the 3primary dice ship...long live the X-Wing!). But most importantly, there are other ways to provide multiple stresses than claimed: furthermore you can actually take multiple stress-Bs...3 of them with better sensors or a Z added? I prefer the multiple-options of my varried list, but dropping a B from your BBBBZ list to make all your otherr B's stress the heck outa dudes? Perhaps good, perhaps not.

is that before or after you add the conner net? as for the hog, I have to see if r3-a2 double-taps off the TLT otherwise, I'm sticking to the ICT. To me, the appeal of TLT is being able to roll without the title, stress in arc and then fart around with stress while still contributing to the fight with a long range turret. ICT is shorter range, but it's also got ion. Ion is one of the most overlooked but powerful mechanics in the game. I've held to this since the begging (the Ion). I try to pack it in whenever possible: yet people tend to say I should swap in HLCs or other nonsense instead.