It's a very good card in harder difficulties, but less so in lower difficulties. You can argue that is not worth it on standard or easy, but it is a godsend in higher difficulties where you are not only at risk of losing actions, but drawing from the chaos bag is way riskier.

A group of three of us just finished the Core Set campaign "Night of the Zealot". So far, the game is pretty fun, but I have one reservation about it: player elimination. Twice during our campaign we drew an unexpected card (or combination of cards) which would have resulted in the elimination of one of the players in the first few rounds of the game. We didn't savor the idea of one player sitting out all night while the other two played on, so we decided to fudge things to keep that from happening ("Oh, you remember when you decided not to play that card you didn't really need so you still had it in hand and now you don't die?")
In the final quest of the campaign, we ended up losing someone towards the end of the game and decided to let it stand to see how it would play out. It still took us about a half hour to wrap up the game (with a catastrophic loss, I might add!) and during that time, the eliminated player just kind of found ways to busy themselves, cleaning up dinner and such.
I'm a longtime fan of the Lord of the Rings LCG, which also technically features player elimination (if someone loses all their heroes) but in practice if we suffer an early-game player elimination (or even just a really bad start) we just reset the game and try again, and even late-game players don't often need to sit out long since once one deck is eliminated, then the end of the game is generally nearby (we often concede at that point).
Because of the campaign nature of Arkham Horror, though, where losses matter as much as wins, it feels like we should play each game out even if that means having someone sit out for a long time.
My question is this:
After everyone gets better at the game, should we still expect to see early-game player elimination? If so, how do you typically handle it? What does that player do after being eliminated, and how long do they usually end up "sitting out"?

Whisper only gets hardcountered by a PS11 Han, or theorically (i haven't played against it so i don't know) a PS10 fettigator. You shouldn't have troubles arc dodging with whisper anyways.
 
Meanwhile Echo gets hardcountered by pretty much any Han build.
 
Edit - About the list, how do you plan to deal with the mirror match up ? Iniative bid isn't really high enough to ensure you are getting it right, and you don't have rebel captive or gunner.

Everybody is taking for granted they are priced with that in mind, which is just not true for all this weapons. The agility doesn't really matter when you have c3p0 and the falcon has an amazing dial i don't know how you can deny this. An Ywing with an ion turret costs 24 points. Is that really overpriced ?
Totally untrue. The ion will win, it is also a poor example, because Y-wings are very easy to ionize, and their shooting capabilities withouth ion is pretty bad, so i will give you that.
 
I feel like you are just splitting hairs at this point. You want to try to counter an argument as simple "shooting a 360 is easier than shooting with an arc". You can say it is balanced by some other fact, but not that they are hard to use. You are paying those points to have an easier to shoot weapon for gods sake.

Oh sure you want to avoid arcs. Like every other single ship. The big difference is that you can avoid arcs withouth sacrificing shooting capacity, and since you don't need to take that your own firing arc into account, well, you do the maths on who is easier to play.

I am sorry, but i don't understand how you can say this with a straight face. People say turrets are easy, because they are easier to shoot than managing to get into the right arc. It's just common sense. I am not speaking about them being OP, but how easy they are to use compared to other weapons.
 
They may be balanced at top level (results tell that they are totally competitive, most tournaments after wave 4 having half or more falcon lists in the tops for rebels) but the skill floor needed is much lower than any list that doesn't use it. And i will repeat myself, yes, this is because they are easier to play even though they can be hard to master (but i don't see how frekkin hard to master can be to fly a c3po predator/han/luke falcon, but sure, i will give you that)

Whisper + Rebel Captive + Fire control systems + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloak
 
(I am sorry if me writing the full names annoys somebody, but i think it is better for people who are starting out than instead reading ADC VI FC RC and going wtf are they smoking)
 
Why whisper before echo ? and Why the upgrades ?
 
1 - I don't have any troubles with decloak + movement + barrel roll to get out of arcs.
2 - PS 9 is far too important, because if we are not it would turn Han Solo builds into a hardcounter instead of a soft one.
3 - Rebel captive allows you to mitigate movement of a Engine Upgraded Falcon, it is useful in general, and godly in phantom on phantom match ups.
4 - Fire control systems allow for extra damage, because sometimes you won't use concentration but barrel roll. And it is also very useful against sturdy targets (ring ring, Falcon).

I would remove biggs. You don't need the extra points to protect etahn if you build him accordingly.
 
Etahn A'Baht + R2 + Push the Limit + Advanced sensors
Bandit Squadron Pilot x 5
 
This way you have a more swarmy list and you are taking better advantadge of the crit ability of etahn.

The problem with the "fly casual" will be always the same. People think "flying casual" is playing however they play with their buddies, and they get used so much to play that way, that when they play with a stranger they are actually playing the game wrong to dismay of the stranger that's put in a awkward position between calling the guy out and being "that guy", or continue to play with the homebred rules the other guy is using. It is a pretty sh*tty position to be.
 
The best way to maintain the "fly casual" attitude, is to play following the rules by the book. Always. It's not about giving you leeway, but keeping a healthy attitude towards the game you are playing, and it is obvious that it doesn't work the way these people think it should work.

RAI = Rules As Iwantthemtobeplayed.
 
There is no intent.  You don't know the designer's intent.  I don't know the designer's intent.  When someone invokes "Intent" it's never the designer's intent - it's the player's.
 
At best, RAI is the height of arrogance, projecting your preferences for the game onto the designers.  At worst, it's a club to force people to let you cheat because you just don't like the rules.

Boba Fett into a phantom.

About that question, i am guessing it is... What breakfast do you prefer ?

Excuse me for not having been a member of the forum since the creation of the game.
If you'll ease off the condescension maybe new people wouldn't mind posting.

Whisper + Rebel Captive + Fire control systems + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloak
 
(I am sorry if me writing the full names annoys somebody, but i think it is better for people who are starting out than instead reading ADC VI FC RC and going wtf are they smoking)
 
Why whisper before echo ? and Why the upgrades ?
 
1 - I don't have any troubles with decloak + movement + barrel roll to get out of arcs.
2 - PS 9 is far too important, because if we are not it would turn Han Solo builds into a hardcounter instead of a soft one.
3 - Rebel captive allows you to mitigate movement of a Engine Upgraded Falcon, it is useful in general, and godly in phantom on phantom match ups.
4 - Fire control systems allow for extra damage, because sometimes you won't use concentration but barrel roll. And it is also very useful against sturdy targets (ring ring, Falcon).

The problem with the "fly casual" will be always the same. People think "flying casual" is playing however they play with their buddies, and they get used so much to play that way, that when they play with a stranger they are actually playing the game wrong to dismay of the stranger that's put in a awkward position between calling the guy out and being "that guy", or continue to play with the homebred rules the other guy is using. It is a pretty sh*tty position to be.
 
The best way to maintain the "fly casual" attitude, is to play following the rules by the book. Always. It's not about giving you leeway, but keeping a healthy attitude towards the game you are playing, and it is obvious that it doesn't work the way these people think it should work.

This sort of thing alarms me. I have yet to play a game of X-wing where I thought either player had a huge advantage based on his build. It usually panned out where victory was decided by positioning and dice. True, I have yet to play in an official tournament.
 
The whole " I have to build to beat x" thing sounds too much like another minis game that I fled to x-wing to escape.

Omicron + Gunner + Engine Upgrade + Fire control system.

"Pssst.
 
Luke.
 
I am your father.
 
Don't tell the Emperor. okay?"

You're welcome!
 
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1577774/eagle-5-starbago.html?modelId=1577774&materialId=6
 

 

 

 

 

Chewie and 4 Bandits have been doing the Phantoms in quite a bit and seems to be able to hold its own against many other archetypes.
Most hard counters tend to flounder in a tournament setting due to the variety of builds you play against.
I've all but given up on the rock/paper/scissor meta and I'm just taking the build that I enjoy the most and playing it well.

Oh sure you want to avoid arcs. Like every other single ship. The big difference is that you can avoid arcs withouth sacrificing shooting capacity, and since you don't need to take that your own firing arc into account, well, you do the maths on who is easier to play.

Oh sure you want to avoid arcs. Like every other single ship. The big difference is that you can avoid arcs withouth sacrificing shooting capacity, and since you don't need to take that your own firing arc into account, well, you do the maths on who is easier to play.

I am sorry, but i don't understand how you can say this with a straight face. People say turrets are easy, because they are easier to shoot than managing to get into the right arc. It's just common sense. I am not speaking about them being OP, but how easy they are to use compared to other weapons.
 
They may be balanced at top level (results tell that they are totally competitive, most tournaments after wave 4 having half or more falcon lists in the tops for rebels) but the skill floor needed is much lower than any list that doesn't use it. And i will repeat myself, yes, this is because they are easier to play even though they can be hard to master (but i don't see how frekkin hard to master can be to fly a c3po predator/han/luke falcon, but sure, i will give you that)

If you are argueing rules, i don't see how being binary is an issue. Rules interpretations are right or wrong, there are no shades of gray in between.
 
Can you play with your friends however you want and bend/change the rules as you both accept to ? Sure, but that's hardly the debate, so then again, why is being binary an issue here?

If you are argueing rules, i don't see how being binary is an issue. Rules interpretations are right or wrong, there are no shades of gray in between.
 
Can you play with your friends however you want and bend/change the rules as you both accept to ? Sure, but that's hardly the debate, so then again, why is being binary an issue here?