Think about it one more step ... why would you exhaust your shield on an attack that missed. Rules as written of course state that dice are thrown simultaneously. I think there is a better mechanic to be had if they were not entirely simultaneous. We would need a descent 2.1 revision for that.

Carbini ... spending surges after defense dice are rolled is important because of pierce. Pierce is supposed to be powerful

I get the sense that there is something that was missed. A card that says before defense dice are rolled if it can be used after you see the attack result but before defense is thrown and surges spent is a good mechanic and I would like to see it played that way. Likewise attackers still need to see the defense roll before deciding how to spend surges. If we were to interpret "before dice are rolled" as you must play it before attack dice are rolled.. after attack dice are rolled as before defense dice are rolled and after dice are rolled as after defense dice are rolled, the world makes more sense.

So back to the original topic.... what needs nerfs and what needs some minor buffs to level set balance?

Actually skills and feats that move you without taking a move action or spending fatigue to gain movement points allow you to move while you are immobilized. It is a way to get around it. Read the limitations on the immobilized card very carefully, and think about all the things it doesn't stop you from doing. It doesn't say "you can't move" ... it says you can't move via these specific methods.

Nope. Moving was clarified as your model changing locations... not just taking a move action or moving via fatigue, etc etc.

He makes one hell of a geomancer too.

Socialize with people... on the phone?! The Phone!?!?! What the hell is this, the dark ages!? (jk)

The organized play site for Descent does not have any list of retailers that are running the game nights in September. Is there going to be a list of dates and places?

Hold on... if Mok is down ... "A hero cannot use skills or abilities while knocked out, unless an effect specifically allows it." Mok does not get a free stand up... he needs to stand up or be stood up before the healing engine can begin. Otherwise it is once per turn, not once per round... that means each player turn... AND somehow if it could miraculously happen, the overlord turn too.

Asking people on the internet to formulate an actual argument that follows the rules of logic and rhetoric? Inconceivable!

Ok so the consensus is that the Bard situation is manageable it seems and does not need an official nerf. What else?

Just drop the bard Good nerf for that power would be if it only targeted characters who were still standing perhaps.

Does it seem like it to everyone else that in order to deal with power creep and some munchkinlike items classes and overlord issues that we need an official nerf-pack to take off a couple of the rough edges? No amount of play testing before releasing the products will catch many of the issues we have found over the course of the game. There simply are never enough play testers and time to realize all of the consequences of the design choices that are made. On the other hand many of us like a game that is close to competitive. Do we need occasional nerf packs with to level set?

I keep trying to come up with a good excuse to take the time to go to Pax Aus ... maybe next year.

I am considering running a Descent Campaign at PAX Prime with most quests run after 6pm so it does not interfere with daytime fun. I was planning to do it a bit of drop-in-drop-out as necessary, but let me know if you want to play and get started. To keep it lean mean and fast I will probably only use the base set plus one small box expansion, and a lieutenant. Anyone headed to PAX interested? If I can get a full party we can start Thursday night

This is so wrong and I won't be able to get it out of my head next time R-r-r-radow Ragons are on the board.

Big box campaign expansion, or little box side quest expansion?

Thanks that is what i was looking for. I wanted to make sure that if I played this on her when she moved 3 spaces she would suffer the stun without being able to go, well I'll move an extra space cause I have MP to burn thus not triggering the "no mp" portion of the card. And also make sure I did not have to wait until jain used the 10 move to hit her with it. Not being a move action did not necessarily preclude the feat having or not having an MP pool. The MP system in this can be wonky if you sit down and think about it. Can be is an understatement. It helps if you think of movements points as only generated by things that specifically state that they generate movement points, as well as move actions. Anything else at all that involves movement of any kind does not use movement points for it. Interesting, did not know that (but for some reason i play skill cards like that)... couldn't she just use 1 fatigue to generate a movement point before using her heroic feat, then use the movement point after the heroic feat is done? That way pit-trap would not stun her as she has movement points to lose ? Using fatigue to move does not generate movement points persay. That is why pit trap is so effective against fatigue movement.

I am not going to debate with you on who the better gamer is. I have no reason to doubt you and am sure that you do really well. I agree with you that this game is well balanced; my friends and I have had a blast with the Shadow Rune Campaign (although I own everything, thus far we have only played the starting campaign) and have played the Overlord in turn. I believe that the problem lies in the lack of mortality for both hero and OL. There never seems to be mortal repercussions as a direct result of a poor decision that I or another have made. If anyone dies in this edition of Descent, they are simply "revived" in the next turn. That's it, no permanent setbacks or fear of committing their forces of good or ill to battle so and so as everyone is rewarded for failure by earning an experience point regardless. This to me cheapens the overall experience for me on a personal level. And lets be clear, you and I know that the heroes can play the "loose to win" strategy whereby each player focuses on treasure hunting until the end of the game, collects the best treasure before the final battle and then commits to operation "Ground and Pound". If the heros gave me every choice of quest, every relic I wanted, and all the XP bonuses... I could hand them the act 1 and 2 shopping decks and tell them to take everything they wanted I would still paste them.

Very true, they need to be used with precision - with great strength comes great responsibility. Ideally you want to take out all the heroes in a single turn which totally screws with their actions. awww... I dream of "rocks fall - everyone dies" ... but then I wake up 3 down with fire breath is the closest I ever came.

Harpies are like a glass canon. You can go all in and take down almost anyone of your choosing, but they will get mopped up fast if the other heroes have any serious action economy (burst, multi-hit, etc.)

How many heros? The game is really only balanced with 4. After that you need a badass gamer as the overlord to makeup for the fact that you have 4 brains working against you. I love the challenge and often stomp the heros.