"As you spend energy to affect." Friendly question, how much Epic have you played? Have you ever tried putting Toryn Farr on a CR90? Toryn's ECM suite is great, but it devours energy like a kettle. A GR-75 can handle it because its energy is going pretty much exclusively on support, but a CR90? If Tarkin had an Energy Cost then yes, he'd be worse than Toryn. But he doesn't. He's incredibly long range and completely unconditional. I'd go as far to say he'd be unbalanced without the Huge Ship restriction. Definitely a power card. Not to mention that Toryn also takes an action and is also only range 1-2.

I got the Yavin one and it looks fantastic. If you're looking for a plain mat, you may as well just use a yoga mat. IIt's cheap and is a fantastic playing surface.

I just know it's going to be fun pairing Tarkin with Kagi & Sensor Jammer. Your enemy might be afraid to focus because of Tarkin, but then they have to TL Kagi who can change a hit to a focus. Good times.

That would make bbbbz cry.

Major Rhymer is gonna LOVE himself some Extra Munitions. 2 APTs for 8 points on a ship that can take PTL? Yes please.

Bombs did not need a fix, they already produce pretty reliable results if you plan accordingly. But i will not complain they got a buff... But for torps and missiles, this new card and probably wave as a whole does not offer enough to make them worthwile. Fact is that nobody takes Missiles and Torps except as a specific counter to a swarm (ion torps or assault missiles) in anything that even gets remotely close to a competitive environment. Because they are not reliable, too restrictive, and one-use! This is not a good fix and we have every right to complain about it. They had plenty of time to do something that makes sense, and we awaited something that really makes ordnance worthwile taking. Well this is not it, and i think you are the one that does not understand! I dunno...I think this actually DOES fix a lot of the ordnance/torpedo problems for the ships that can use it. The biggest problem was reliability for points spent. A concussion missile on a bomber is actually good when it works, but terrible when it doesn't just due to the fickle dice. To get a focus/TL on a ship you either need assistance or at least two rounds to pull that off (though most likely 3 due to k-turning) The Extra Munitions card does kind of solve the reliability issue though. Take a look at this: Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16) Extra Munitions (2) Concussion Missiles (4) Seismic Charges (2) Munitions Failsafe (1) Total: 25 With a build like this, I don't really need to worry about getting a TL and focus for every shot, because I have a bit of redundancy. I would be very comfortable firing off range 2 shots without modification and here's why. Firing off a shot with no modifications, would result in one of three events: I have an amazing natural roll. I roll blanks/all eyes. I roll poorly and after defender rolls I get about 1 hit through. The first one is really good, so who cares. With the second, I didn't lose my shot due to Munitions Failsafe. With the third, sure I lost a shot, but I still have another one. You also have to remember, that a 4-dice change one blank to a hit result is a LOT better on the TIE bomber than it's 2 dice attack with a focus. Not to mention that this 25 point build also gives me two bombs, which gives me a lot of flexibility. I'm very happy what this change does to Bombers.

I would wear that as a bow tie.

I just sum it up as: "Don't be a jerk."

Honestly, this is the best thing that could have happened. Phantoms are WAY more fun to fly now and even the generics are great.

The straight greens actually don't bother me. If the one banks were green that would be mostly useful at close range where I never, ever want my Defender to be anyway unless I'm close behind. Usually if I get stress on it, I'm pretty far away anyway and a 2 straight will still keep me in arc. If I'm close, I'll 4k behind and clear next round or 5 straight and get out of there. I've been utilizing the hard 1's & 2's more lately too. The dial has really started to grow on me. If there was one title/fix that I would LOVE to have though, it would be cheaper cannons. I would take that over anything else.

I'm not sure I agree. Granted, I was flying this exact same ship prior to the new FAQ was announced, but the changes in the new FAQ do not give it more 'durability' (other than hoping to bump enemy ships with the decloak, I guess---similar to the enhanced scopes + intel agent version). Anyway, I ended up switching to the defender because of difficulty keeping it alive. Part of the problem is its firepower is so great that it attracts a lot of attention----more than a naked delta would. Having said that, if you have two of them and a strong flanker (perhaps echo/whisper) it might make for a pretty potent alpha strike---more so than you could get out of similar cost defenders. However, keeping it alive long enough to get the most out of those 4 attack dice might be difficult since it can't arc-dodge and its decloaks are more predictible (enemy knows where its gonna be before dials revealed). The reason I like it better now, is because I'll always be able to decloak exactly where I want to. On the turn I decloak I'll at the very least have a focus and evade and possibly even a TL. I'm also okay if my opponent knows where I'm decloaking as (just like the 4k)often times there's nothing they can do about it anyway. Yes turrets can still get a shot on me, but 2dice + focus & evade isn't too shabby. Often times I'll even do a straight decloak + kturn to get behind someone. Even in that situation you still get an evade and possibly a TL. Defenders have more hp, but they'll be rolling a lot more unmodified dice than the Phantom for the same cost.

I think the Phantom change REALLY hurts the Defender. Since the Phantom change made the generics viable, you can run a 29-point monster like this one: Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) Fire-Control System (2) Stygium Particle Accelerator (2) Total: 29 You still also have the flexibility of the crew slot. With careful flying the Sigma will live longer, has better action economy and will probably do more damage over its lifetime. Yes it won't be firing every turn, but when it does it really hurts.

This is hardly unique to TIE Defenders. As soon as you are stressed, or are relying on unmodified green dice, and are taking hits from different sources, EVERY SINGLE SHIP IN THE GAME STARTS HURTING. How many times do we hear that a double stressed Soontir Fel is a dead Soontir Fel? Or that stress is a Phantom's worst enemy? Or that green dice cannot be relied on? If you're ALLOWING your opponent to focus down your TIE Defender in the second round of shooting, it's YOU that's at fault, not the ship. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say defenders are made for jousting. Am I right? They definitely are not arc Dodgers and with the white kturn are pretty much used to fit that roll of a jouster. However when a ship is used this way you pretty much have to expect it's going to get shot at A LOT! Whereas other ships are not relying on jousting so therefore will usually take less fire. I think that's what he means. Your going to get shot a lot when jousting and you will only be able to modify one round of shooting or none depending on if you spent your focus token. So yes other ships die just as quick when having unmodified defense dice but when your running a ship that's primary focus is jousting it will be seeing those unmodified dice a lot more than other ships will. This is where things get weird. You would think that they're jousters, but they really aren't. They're more flankers/hit and run ships. Unless it's a 1v1, jousting is a good way to die with a Defender.

Not you specifically, it's been going back and forth for pages and pages now. Someone says, "I would kill x by doing y" and then someone counters with the exact opposite.

This thread has turned into "My dad can beat up your dad."

Fleet Officer! It's crazy good with interceptors. Even turns Alpha Squadron into unholy agents of death.

I think you don't see Defenders often in tournaments not because they are a bad ship, but because they are a risky ship. If you're rolling average dice, they perform pretty well. If you blow a couple defense rolls, there goes half your list. I find that a lot of people like to load up Defenders, they get a couple bad dice rolls and then feel it doesn't perform. That's a big reason why I don't like running Brath and I like to run Vessery at 42 points at max. Though I like him best under 40 pts. Deltas though are pretty great with a Flechette at 32 points. At cheaper point values they still perform rather well, are rather reliable and don't completely hose you when they die. I think they're costed appropriately for what they do, but I'd never be brave enough to take a 50 point Defender to a tournament and I can understand other people not wanting to either.

I really like the change. Now I can fly a phantom in a casual game without feeling like a jerk.

Because their ship is incapable of executing turns? Because having every single turn and bank doesn't count as turns?

I think he's just someone who doesn't make obviously bad choices. Why would anyone fly anything straight at a block of TIEs?

I'm wondering how people think this amazing blocking will work. It's really easy to tell the decloak positions of a phantom (well, except for echo) so...just don't park your ship there.

I would say that since it's your first tournament, just fly a squad that you are REALLY comfortable with.

Well, it's like the guy who always brings a Falcon. Sure, you can build a counter-list...but you're still flying against a Falcon. It just gets boring. I often throw together really crazy lists just for something different...but I'm really starting to burn out on X-Wing.

::sigh:: I wish more people around here were interested in playing for fun. I'm SICK TO DEATH of 100pt tournament format. Just tired of playing the same game, with the same objectives against the same builds over and over again.

Just wondering; what *is* a good indicator to you of the quality of a ship? You argument about Paul heaver means nothing. It says more about him than you. They are defining effectiveness as their own personal experience. There's no way to argue with someone who makes decisions like that. That's what everyone in the thread is doing. The only real tools we have are Mathwing which doesn't tell the whole story. And also, Mathwing does say that Vessery w/ consistent target locks (which is pretty easy to get) has good efficiency.