trustybroom
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Posts posted by trustybroom
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the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.
That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.
ScaredOfCrows reacted to this -
I've been playing with variations of this build for a while now. Vessery's ability actually procs most of the time.
Colonel Vessery (35)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Proximity Mines (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)
Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)
Total: 100
View in Yet Another Squad BuilderI haven't found a loadout for the Bomber that I'm completely happy with yet. Prox mines are inconsistent, but nice when they work. I alternate between them and Conner Nets. I'm also been switching between Homing Missiles and Concussion Missiles. I've actually been pretty impressed with Concussion Missiles. I find they land more consistent damage than Homing Missiles in practice, though Homing Missiles are dramatically better vs evade-capable ships. I'll eventually find a combination between items that I'm happy with.
I opted for higher-PS pilots mostly to assist vs low-PS TLTs. It's been working out so far.
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Vessery was always good and just gets better with more target locking options. The new TIE/fo helps Vessery a LOT.
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Echo is only food for Han, VI Chiraneau, and Dengar. You don't need to move last to arc dodge when you have that much displacement ability. Granted, you do need to be good at predicting where your opponent will be and visualizing where Echo's side de-cloaks put her, but that's why I called her one of the most skill intensive pilots in the game.
And fortunately for Echo, TLT has Han and Chirpy running scared.
Phantoms have special feature, they love to shoot first, not go last.
In case of PS9 Echo always shoots last, no matter who has the initiative.
It's not just crucial, it's their life and death question.
Against a 9-skill echo is just a Z-95 in terms of survivability.
A couple of turns firepower that is. And (s)he is nowhere near expensive...
That PS9 would have to be able to shoot at Echo first. Echo can go in directions that no other ship can go in. You move Echo to places where no ship (other than a turret) could possibly shoot her. I mean, Echo can move to positions behind her or even basically remain stationary. Echo doesn't insta-die to PS9+.
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With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem.
Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.
The difference between Echo and Lorrir is when Lorrir uses his ability, he ends up stressed with unmodified dice. When Echo uses her ability, she still has her action and two upgrade slots that greatly improve her action economy.
Totally agree, but Echo is also a lot more expensive than Lorrir.
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There is this amazing thing called blocking. It really does help with Guri getting in close.
There are pilots that need complex blocking to get into range and don't give a ****.
And higher PS ones that just don't need that.
That's the difference here D:
Soontir getting blocked is catastrophic for Soontir. Guri getting blocked...not so much.
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I was just thinking if we would see a broader diversity of pilots if the best pilot ability would not simultaneously have the highest pilot skill.
I know, that thematically best pilots should have highest pilot skills (best of the best), but for the sake of the game it would be healthy to have some pilots with super abilites with lower PS (like Tarn Mison). I assume this would shuffle the PS competition leading to a better mixture of pilots.
For example Soontir Fel could have PS 6 (or PS 9 but different ability). Many players would also take a PS 5 pilot with Soontirs ability. Other would prefer higher PS pilot but with less good pilot abilities. Same of course with most of the other ships, like A-wings with Jake and Tycho or T-70 with Poe or E-wings with Corran etc.
Maybe this could be concerned for many pilots in the following waves.
Thoughts on this?
Guri has epicly good ability but lousy PS5.
She has no use outside local funplay.
Echo has cool ability, but lousy PS6
Blue ace has cool ability, but it's near USELESS with his PS6
Garven Dreis ability is of no use if his lousy PS6 is not the highest among the force.
Same goes to Dutch Vander
Lorrir's ability would have been col, had he been not a lousy PS5 DERPilot
Well, it's simply as is.
If you take the PS race in mind, in many cases a lower PS would ruin the most used build, but not provide a new one.
Guri is excellent against Generics. She's great against swarms, but struggles a bit against Fat Turrets and Arc Dodgers.
Echo has a very powerful ability, but is perhaps the most skill intensive pilot in the game. The reason she doesn't show up is because Whisper is almost as good in many cases (and better against turrets), but easier to fly.
Garven I'll give you, but Dutch works with anyone close to him.
Lorrir... I don't know what he needs. Well, no, that's not true. He, like all arc dodgers, needs a strong action economy. Even if he was PS 8 and had an EPT, he'd be lousy, because his ability wouldn't work with PTL and that's the only form of action economy the Tie Interceptor has (Unless you're Turr Phennir).
Guri can EAT PS 4 and lower for breakfast. But you see somebody with higher PS and DERP, no matter how much PTL, AdvSensors and all you try, you won't get that free focus for range 1, you won't evade that fire and most likely not see the enemy that often.
PS race....
Echo sees a PS9.
Echo dies,
Echo goes home.
Lorrir has "guri sindrome" being an arcdodger with puny PS, out-arcdodged by almost anyone from Biggz and up.
If you're trying to fly a low PS ship to range 1 of a high PS ship, you're doing it wrong.
With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem.
Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.
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There's a few really good EPTs for Turr:
- Crack Shot
- Lightning Reflexes
- Veteran Instincts
- Lone Wolf
- Stay on Target
- Predator
- Push the Limit
I personally don't like to run PTL on him, as he is a lot better when you can abuse those 1 turns. Honestly, I think that Turr can be much more effective than Soontir. The reason you don't see Turr that often though, is that he isn't as reliable as Soontir and when you're going to a tournament you really want reliable pilots. More so than any other Interceptor, Turr lives and dies by how well you can anticipate your opponents' moves and your ability to plan ahead.
I prefer Hull Upgrade over Stealth Device, since Turr pretty much never has stacked tokens. An extra (most likely unmodified) die doesn't do much of anything.
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21 Huge ship only+ Expert Handling + Marksmanship + Expose + Agent Kallus = 25 . There is only room for one more non huge ship specific upgrade, so it will not come in multiples. Therefore, one of the last three cards is not a title.
Hang on, the Gozanti is going to come with Expert Handling, Marksmanship, and Expose? For real?
I've already got more copies of those cards than I'll ever use.
Expert Handling I like much more these days, what with all the ATC TIE Advanceds.
Depending on what TIEs come with the Gozanti, I'm curious about Expose, why push that one?
Expose would need some insanely good synergy to be worth its cost. I mean, INSANE.
But, my guess is the synergy will be "fun" and still not enough for anyone to be excited about these EPTs coming in the expansion.
I'm assuming they think that people will be using coordinate more? So a ship uses Expose, gets a free action from coordinate to focus or Target Lock. Even so, I don't think I'd want to use expose.
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OP's complaint is valid
Not at all. If defensive abilities were any cheaper, THEN you'd have to wonder if FFG did any playtesting, because hard-to-kill ships would become too effective and break the game...
Sure, it's a contentious point, but I wont say it's invalid. If anything, it's an edge case, but many of the examples in Kdub's list are completely valid and rather painfully obvious examples of lazy implementation.
I disagree. A lot of those cards had a valid use at one point in time and some are still valid. The meta changing makes a card unsuited to the current meta, it doesn't make a card bad.
blade_mercurial reacted to this -
I've always been a big fan of the Defender and I still think that the biggest thing that keeps it out of competition is the reliableness of its defense for its cost.
If you're rolling average defense, it is a really good ship. If you blow a big defense roll it can cost you the game.
I've had games where it almost soloed the other squad and games where it died without accomplishing anything due to bad defense die luck. If there was something to make its defense more consistent it would be an utterly amazing ship.
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The "plastic toys" comment is just a fun way of saying, "Relax, this is supposed to be fun."
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I have a question about the Defender and would like to hear people's opinions. Does the Defender need a cannon to be effective? If so, which cannons? Does it have to be HLC? Or can it be Mangler? I know about Ion for control, but I'm mostly thinking about damage dealing capability.
I've generally used Col. V without a cannon and use those points for more ships with TL ability. I also throw in a high PS Tie Adv. for those anti-ace moves. I'm wondering if I used an HLC in that list would it work better? The problem with that is I will have to knock out a high PS ace.
I don't think the Defender necessarily needs a cannon, but if you're not using a cannon there are more point-efficient ships to take. Vessery with HLC is better than HLC on any other Defender, as the HLC gets dramatically better when you're throwing TL + F with every shot. That being said, I don't often put an HLC on Vessery 'cause I feel it makes him too much of an expensive target. I don't like the Mangler on Vessery (or any Defender, really) as it's 4 points for an effect that won't always happen. Also, Vessery's rerolls increase the chances of additional crits anyway.
I run ion cannons and flechette cannons on Defenders often. I think the flechette cannon is a steal at two points. Sure you're not going to use it all the time, but it's nice for range 3 shots on high agility ships and for ruining the Aggressor's day.
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And so okay, you can have your super defender, if you don't mind it costing as much as (more than?) a loaded RAC.
And I don't. It's the most powerful starfighter in the galaxy. It should perform as such. And then be costed to balance.
I'd rather have a ship with interesting pros and cons than a boring super-ship.
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If they're still just showing the 3D printed prototypes for Wave 8, I'm thinking it's going to be a LONG time before wave 8 is released.
Or it is just easier and they are saving production models for actual sales. It's really still up in the air. Phantom and TIE P are painted now.
They'll need the actual production models for approval. I figure if they had the production models, it would be odd not to display them.
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If they're still just showing the 3D printed prototypes for Wave 8, I'm thinking it's going to be a LONG time before wave 8 is released.
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Why would the pilots in charge of escorting the Emperor need a bomber?
Maybe the Emperor wants a bunch of bombers flying around him, blowing things up while rips out a wicked guitar solo on the bridge of his ship.
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Yup. No one worries about Engine Upgrade on Omicron Group Pilots or Wild Space Fringers, and it's good but not great for a Firespray until you get something like VI Fett.Engine Upgrade on Large ships like Han and Dash and Chiraneau does look like a problem, but it's actually due to two more fundamental factors in the game:(1) The more expensive a ship is, the more effective upgrades tend to be.(2) Engine Upgrade (like barrel roll and other ways to change your position and heading) varies a lot in power based on the PS of the ship using it.So Engine Upgrade is typically most effective (that is, provides more value than it costss) on high-PS ships, and Large, high-PS fortresses can leverage that advantage best.I don't know how to fix those issues, nor am I sure FFG sees it the same way I do. But I think Jeff Wilder (and others) are wrong to think that boost on Large ships is the fundamental problem.I respectfully disagree, I believe Boost is not an inherent problem with game balance...
Boost as an action in the game isnt a problem. Boost on large based ships wouldnt be a problem except that they gain a disproportionate amount of speed from the same action compared to small base ships. Beyond the fact it makes them impossible to catch, which is both bad for gameplay i.e. circling the table edge - and also contrary to fluff and common sense, I would agree. It isnt an issue. When you add PS and MOV into the mix, the problem becomes game changing (literally). I hope the recent changes fix this. I can live with fast, fat turrets. But when they abuse the loophole to fortress points in tournaments by running away and when the fastest small based ships in the game cant catch them, it is bad for the game
Large-based ships CAN'T outrun small-based ships especially given the size of the board. Let's say the Falcon and an A-Wing are on a starting line. Both go full-forward and boost. The back of their ships will be at the same exact spot and the front of the Falcon will be one small-based ship in front of it. If they go full-forward again from that same position, the front of the A-Wing will be at the same point on the back of the Falcon and the front of the Falcon will be 1 large-base length in front of the A-Wing. They can't do that again without running off the board. And consider the fact that 1 range band is 2.5 small-base lengths making the entire ruler 7.5 small-base lengths, you're not going to outrun a small ship with a large-base boosting ship.
Vorpal Sword reacted to this -
I'm a big fan of flechettes on Defenders.
- It's cheap, which is nice on a costly ship.
- Most ships don't have many greens and their next movement is rather predictable.
- It's about as effective at range 3 as their main guns.
Yes, it's not as effective as ions against small ships, but it's WAY more effective against large ships.
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Rexler is at least less of a terrible buy than the generics.
The PS1 is about 76%.
Vessery is about 85% without his ability kicking in, and 100% with.
Rexler is about 85%.
As an interesting comparison point, Rear Admiral Chiraneau without upgrades is around 79%, and Han Solo without any upgrades is, I think, around 84% (Han's numbers aren't updated in my thread yet).
translation: vessery is the goddamn man
Vessery is also a massive headache, if you're thinking about fixes. One pilot that's pretty functional, mixed in with three pilots that are three points underpriced...?
Well, they could work on the one thing that all Defenders are terrible at: Defensive Consistency.
ViscerothSWG reacted to this -
I'd LOVE to play scenario games, but everyone over here only wants to play 1v1 deathmatch.
heychadwick reacted to this -
Hi, I have a doubt regarding Twin Laser Turret. According to the latest FAQ edition:
QuoteTwin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. During the second attack, the “Declare Defender and Weapon” step is skipped.Does this mean that we can role defense dice twice, since they are considered two separate attacks? This can change this weapon a little...
You always rolled defense dice after every attack from the TLT. Nothing changed there.
ObiWonka and Silver Crane reacted to this -
Maybe I'm old, but...why do people care about people complaining on the internet?
Echo for the loss?
in X-Wing
Posted
That's...not really an argument.
Regardless of player skill Echo can do things that literally no other ship can. At close range, Soontir can't turn around that well. Echo can turn around VERY well and can go many places that Soontir can't. At range, Soontir can more easily keep Echo in arc.
As to your second point, I would HOPE that 70+ points worth of ships would be able to trap and kill a single 40-point ship. If you can't, than you would have other more serious problems that need addressing.