That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards. not possible if your opponent isn't an idiot. sure you can do it for a turn or two against a single ace, but the usual Soontir-Vader combo will trap you with ease That's...not really an argument. Regardless of player skill Echo can do things that literally no other ship can. At close range, Soontir can't turn around that well. Echo can turn around VERY well and can go many places that Soontir can't. At range, Soontir can more easily keep Echo in arc. As to your second point, I would HOPE that 70+ points worth of ships would be able to trap and kill a single 40-point ship. If you can't, than you would have other more serious problems that need addressing.

That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.

I've been playing with variations of this build for a while now. Vessery's ability actually procs most of the time. Colonel Vessery (35) Ruthlessness (3) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Gamma Squadron Pilot (18) Extra Munitions (2) Homing Missiles (5) Proximity Mines (3) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Zeta Squadron Pilot (16) Zeta Squadron Pilot (16) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder I haven't found a loadout for the Bomber that I'm completely happy with yet. Prox mines are inconsistent, but nice when they work. I alternate between them and Conner Nets. I'm also been switching between Homing Missiles and Concussion Missiles. I've actually been pretty impressed with Concussion Missiles. I find they land more consistent damage than Homing Missiles in practice, though Homing Missiles are dramatically better vs evade-capable ships. I'll eventually find a combination between items that I'm happy with. I opted for higher-PS pilots mostly to assist vs low-PS TLTs. It's been working out so far.

Vessery was always good and just gets better with more target locking options. The new TIE/fo helps Vessery a LOT.

Phantoms have special feature, they love to shoot first, not go last. In case of PS9 Echo always shoots last, no matter who has the initiative. It's not just crucial, it's their life and death question. Against a 9-skill echo is just a Z-95 in terms of survivability. A couple of turns firepower that is. And (s)he is nowhere near expensive... That PS9 would have to be able to shoot at Echo first. Echo can go in directions that no other ship can go in. You move Echo to places where no ship (other than a turret) could possibly shoot her. I mean, Echo can move to positions behind her or even basically remain stationary. Echo doesn't insta-die to PS9+.

The difference between Echo and Lorrir is when Lorrir uses his ability, he ends up stressed with unmodified dice. When Echo uses her ability, she still has her action and two upgrade slots that greatly improve her action economy. Totally agree, but Echo is also a lot more expensive than Lorrir.

There are pilots that need complex blocking to get into range and don't give a ****. And higher PS ones that just don't need that. That's the difference here D: Soontir getting blocked is catastrophic for Soontir. Guri getting blocked...not so much.

Guri has epicly good ability but lousy PS5. She has no use outside local funplay. Echo has cool ability, but lousy PS6 Blue ace has cool ability, but it's near USELESS with his PS6 Garven Dreis ability is of no use if his lousy PS6 is not the highest among the force. Same goes to Dutch Vander Lorrir's ability would have been col, had he been not a lousy PS5 DERPilot Well, it's simply as is. If you take the PS race in mind, in many cases a lower PS would ruin the most used build, but not provide a new one. Guri is excellent against Generics. She's great against swarms, but struggles a bit against Fat Turrets and Arc Dodgers. Echo has a very powerful ability, but is perhaps the most skill intensive pilot in the game. The reason she doesn't show up is because Whisper is almost as good in many cases (and better against turrets), but easier to fly. Garven I'll give you, but Dutch works with anyone close to him. Lorrir... I don't know what he needs. Well, no, that's not true. He, like all arc dodgers, needs a strong action economy. Even if he was PS 8 and had an EPT, he'd be lousy, because his ability wouldn't work with PTL and that's the only form of action economy the Tie Interceptor has (Unless you're Turr Phennir). Guri can EAT PS 4 and lower for breakfast. But you see somebody with higher PS and DERP, no matter how much PTL, AdvSensors and all you try, you won't get that free focus for range 1, you won't evade that fire and most likely not see the enemy that often. PS race.... Echo sees a PS9. Echo dies, Echo goes home. Lorrir has "guri sindrome" being an arcdodger with puny PS, out-arcdodged by almost anyone from Biggz and up. If you're trying to fly a low PS ship to range 1 of a high PS ship, you're doing it wrong. With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem. Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.

There's a few really good EPTs for Turr: Crack Shot Lightning Reflexes Veteran Instincts Lone Wolf Stay on Target Predator Push the Limit I personally don't like to run PTL on him, as he is a lot better when you can abuse those 1 turns. Honestly, I think that Turr can be much more effective than Soontir. The reason you don't see Turr that often though, is that he isn't as reliable as Soontir and when you're going to a tournament you really want reliable pilots. More so than any other Interceptor, Turr lives and dies by how well you can anticipate your opponents' moves and your ability to plan ahead. I prefer Hull Upgrade over Stealth Device, since Turr pretty much never has stacked tokens. An extra (most likely unmodified) die doesn't do much of anything.

Hang on, the Gozanti is going to come with Expert Handling, Marksmanship, and Expose? For real? I've already got more copies of those cards than I'll ever use. Expert Handling I like much more these days, what with all the ATC TIE Advanceds. Depending on what TIEs come with the Gozanti, I'm curious about Expose, why push that one? Expose would need some insanely good synergy to be worth its cost. I mean, INSANE. But, my guess is the synergy will be "fun" and still not enough for anyone to be excited about these EPTs coming in the expansion. I'm assuming they think that people will be using coordinate more? So a ship uses Expose, gets a free action from coordinate to focus or Target Lock. Even so, I don't think I'd want to use expose.

Yeah, autothrusters are great even when not playing against turrets. They help out a lot during the initial approach where arc-dodging ships are most vulnerable.

Not at all. If defensive abilities were any cheaper, THEN you'd have to wonder if FFG did any playtesting, because hard-to-kill ships would become too effective and break the game... Sure, it's a contentious point, but I wont say it's invalid. If anything, it's an edge case, but many of the examples in Kdub's list are completely valid and rather painfully obvious examples of lazy implementation. I disagree. A lot of those cards had a valid use at one point in time and some are still valid. The meta changing makes a card unsuited to the current meta, it doesn't make a card bad.

I've always been a big fan of the Defender and I still think that the biggest thing that keeps it out of competition is the reliableness of its defense for its cost. If you're rolling average defense, it is a really good ship. If you blow a big defense roll it can cost you the game. I've had games where it almost soloed the other squad and games where it died without accomplishing anything due to bad defense die luck. If there was something to make its defense more consistent it would be an utterly amazing ship.

The "plastic toys" comment is just a fun way of saying, "Relax, this is supposed to be fun."

I don't think the Defender necessarily needs a cannon, but if you're not using a cannon there are more point-efficient ships to take. Vessery with HLC is better than HLC on any other Defender, as the HLC gets dramatically better when you're throwing TL + F with every shot. That being said, I don't often put an HLC on Vessery 'cause I feel it makes him too much of an expensive target. I don't like the Mangler on Vessery (or any Defender, really) as it's 4 points for an effect that won't always happen. Also, Vessery's rerolls increase the chances of additional crits anyway. I run ion cannons and flechette cannons on Defenders often. I think the flechette cannon is a steal at two points. Sure you're not going to use it all the time, but it's nice for range 3 shots on high agility ships and for ruining the Aggressor's day.

And I don't. It's the most powerful starfighter in the galaxy. It should perform as such. And then be costed to balance. I'd rather have a ship with interesting pros and cons than a boring super-ship.

Or it is just easier and they are saving production models for actual sales. It's really still up in the air. Phantom and TIE P are painted now. They'll need the actual production models for approval. I figure if they had the production models, it would be odd not to display them.

If they're still just showing the 3D printed prototypes for Wave 8, I'm thinking it's going to be a LONG time before wave 8 is released.

Maybe the Emperor wants a bunch of bombers flying around him, blowing things up while rips out a wicked guitar solo on the bridge of his ship.

Yup. No one worries about Engine Upgrade on Omicron Group Pilots or Wild Space Fringers, and it's good but not great for a Firespray until you get something like VI Fett.Engine Upgrade on Large ships like Han and Dash and Chiraneau does look like a problem, but it's actually due to two more fundamental factors in the game:(1) The more expensive a ship is, the more effective upgrades tend to be.(2) Engine Upgrade (like barrel roll and other ways to change your position and heading) varies a lot in power based on the PS of the ship using it.So Engine Upgrade is typically most effective (that is, provides more value than it costss) on high-PS ships, and Large, high-PS fortresses can leverage that advantage best.I don't know how to fix those issues, nor am I sure FFG sees it the same way I do. But I think Jeff Wilder (and others) are wrong to think that boost on Large ships is the fundamental problem. Boost as an action in the game isnt a problem. Boost on large based ships wouldnt be a problem except that they gain a disproportionate amount of speed from the same action compared to small base ships. Beyond the fact it makes them impossible to catch, which is both bad for gameplay i.e. circling the table edge - and also contrary to fluff and common sense, I would agree. It isnt an issue. When you add PS and MOV into the mix, the problem becomes game changing (literally). I hope the recent changes fix this. I can live with fast, fat turrets. But when they abuse the loophole to fortress points in tournaments by running away and when the fastest small based ships in the game cant catch them, it is bad for the game Large-based ships CAN'T outrun small-based ships especially given the size of the board. Let's say the Falcon and an A-Wing are on a starting line. Both go full-forward and boost. The back of their ships will be at the same exact spot and the front of the Falcon will be one small-based ship in front of it. If they go full-forward again from that same position, the front of the A-Wing will be at the same point on the back of the Falcon and the front of the Falcon will be 1 large-base length in front of the A-Wing. They can't do that again without running off the board. And consider the fact that 1 range band is 2.5 small-base lengths making the entire ruler 7.5 small-base lengths, you're not going to outrun a small ship with a large-base boosting ship.

I'm a big fan of flechettes on Defenders. It's cheap, which is nice on a costly ship. Most ships don't have many greens and their next movement is rather predictable. It's about as effective at range 3 as their main guns. Yes, it's not as effective as ions against small ships, but it's WAY more effective against large ships.

translation: vessery is the goddamn man Vessery is also a massive headache, if you're thinking about fixes. One pilot that's pretty functional, mixed in with three pilots that are three points underpriced...? Well, they could work on the one thing that all Defenders are terrible at: Defensive Consistency.

I'd LOVE to play scenario games, but everyone over here only wants to play 1v1 deathmatch.

You always rolled defense dice after every attack from the TLT. Nothing changed there.

Maybe I'm old, but...why do people care about people complaining on the internet?