I am again going to call BS on this line of thinking. A-wings are flankers with a missile platform. Why would anyone just fly into tanks with 360 degree firing arcs? That's not being sporting... that's being dumb. Given the set up of the two squads and how the alpha round went.... why would the A-wing player do anything other than what he did? Furthermore, this is a viable tactic that was used over and over again in WW2. Bombers would eventually lose their fighter support due to lack of fuel, and then the bombers themselves could only fly so long if they wanted to have enough fuel to get home. AAs and defending fighters would harass the bombers and force them off flight path. The fighters didn't need to engage directly, just force the bombers to use up fuel. But back to this game.... Part of the reason why so many people think Interceptors and A-wings are not worth their points is because of the mind set that one always has to be attacking. In a tournament setting this is not the case. The goal is to have scored 12 more points than your opponent by the end of time. Avoiding further losses and not engaging in risky combat is a valid, legal, and sportsman like tactic. Stalling and causing turns to take longer is not. Furthermore, forcing your opponent off of their original strategy is part of how you SHOULD be playing this game. Not being able to change or being unwilling to change your tactics is how you often lose this game. And how dare anyone fly the banner of "Fly Casual" as means to call defense-first play unsportsmanlike. Do not tar or sully the beauty that is Fly Casual by demanding that people play the way you "feel" they should. We have our rules and we stick to them. Fly Casual means to continue having fun while playing even in the face of defeat. It means shaking hands with the person you just played and leaving your excuses and hubris at the door. Defense first is a viable strategy, and you'd better start preparing your lists for it now! A-wings are getting upgraded and the Interceptors already have been. The meta is changing. Swarms and jousting are not the only way to play this game. I think you misunderstood my post. I don't have a problem with how the OP played (based on his description, which is all we have to go on) I was commenting on someone who's sole tactic is to get 12 points and has no intention of ever really playing after that. For those that know Blood Bowl, it's like you're playing a team who's ahead by a point in the second half. They have possession of the ball and half your team is off the pitch due to KO's, injuries or whatever. The player then doesn't try to score and just runs out the rest of the match giving you no chance no matter how good or poor a player you are. Based on the OP's description, he should have won. My comment was more aligned to stalling tactics in general which is also kinda trolling. There're people in this thread who say an all ion list is trolling, but an all-evade list isn't. Both of them CAN be but that doesn't mean they are. It all comes down to how they are being flown and everything in this thread is based on a second-hand account. Also, this is from someone who loves all A-Wing and Interceptor lists. I do understand your point, and my previous comments were not solely directed at you. What is wrong with going into the game with the original game plan being win the alpha strike and avoid risky combat and any losses thereafter? Also, why would that not be fun to play against? I'll answer both questions. 1) Nothing. It forces people to play in a different mind set and there are some players that think there is only one way to play this game. 2) I would have loved to step in and take those 3 Y-wings in an attempt to hunt those A-wings down! An opponent forcing me to change gears is not "unsportsmanlike" nor does it cause me to stop having fun. I'm having fun every time I push a little piece of my childhood around the table. I also know that there is NOTHING inside of the rules that an opponent can throw at me that I can't find a counter for. Finding the counter is PART OF the fun! So yes... BS on both counts. To address your "trolling" concern. There is no (let me repeat that) THERE IS NO "troll", "newb", "unfair" list in this game. ANY 100 point squad has a chance of beating any other 100 point squad. Those who wave the flag of "Fly Casual" will tell you this and will certainly NOT use any such language as to suggest a player is [insert name here] based on their list. Lulz. For someone who seems to act as the authority on "Fly Casual", you have an interesting definition of "casual". As you seem to have the definition of, "as long as something isn't strictly forbidden, it's totally cool." There is such a thing as violating the spirit of the rules you know. I have a feeling that you would whip out a Star Fortress against a new player and shrug your shoulders if they made a comment that it isn't fair. So the discussion is over and it's time to warp words and throw mud, eh? Please... explain to me how the A-wing player "violated" the spirit of the game. Maybe you can enlighten us all with what the spirit of this game is... being we can't find it in the rule book. (And yes, don't act like a jerk IS in the rules.) And yes, I do play under the banner of "Fly Casual". I have never made an excuse for my loses, been a jerk to my opponents, or used silly terminology to demonize types of lists or tactics I have trouble defeating. If the "spirit" of the game is for A-wings to run head long into a group of turreted Y-wings, then maybe the name of the game should be changed to Star Wars Joust. Why even have the 3x3 play area and asteroids? If you actually read my post you would realize that I agreed with the OP. Didn't think he did anything wrong based on what he said. (which is, of course, only one side of the story) What I was saying is that lists in and of themselves are not good or bad. You can fly like a jerk no matter your list and THAT violates the spirit of the game.

Do you really think you're going to be well though around here by calling someone names? Funny... Nothing in the OP said anything about his response to being called a name. So unless you were there, you have no idea how the OP responded... All you're doing is throwing around baseless insults. He came here and asked a question that's a pretty fair thing to do. Much more reasonable then anything you've posted here so far. Based on your posts so far, it seems like if anyone is likely to have issues for sportsman ship at a Tournament, it will be you. The hypocrisy in your post is quite telling.

I just love it when someone tries to say that a Tournament and teaching a newbie how to play are the same thing... Because clearly if you do something in one situation you'd do exactly the same thing in the other. New player can't play in tournaments. Gotcha. I'll remember to tell that to someone the next time they ask. No offense dude, but get your head out of your you-know-what. Vanor didn't say that new players weren't welcomed to tournaments, or that they wouldn't be helped. Tournaments ARE a different beast than a casual pick up game though. I just entered my first tournament a while ago, and I found everyone there to be VERY helpful. That doesn't mean they weren't out to win though. We also had time between games, so that most of the players there helped de-brief me, and told me what I could be doing better, and what I had done wrong as well as right. This community is generally very gracious and helpful. I imagine that most tournaments are much the same. If I see someone who is in need of help, I'd throw him a bone. I may want the win, so I would probably give out advice during the match only sparingly, and then after the match in much more detail. I dare you to find someone here who wouldn't. Sure found one. The OP. Could have easily said, "Sorry you felt that way, wasn't my intention. Here's what you could have done to beat me." Instead of going to the forums to look for people to prove to himself that he's right. Also, above bolded for hilarity.

I just love it when someone tries to say that a Tournament and teaching a newbie how to play are the same thing... Because clearly if you do something in one situation you'd do exactly the same thing in the other. New player can't play in tournaments. Gotcha. I'll remember to tell that to someone the next time they ask. "Hey, it's totally cool to act like a jerk! The rules don't say I can't!" Some people play the game for fun and this thread is full of people dumping all over the Y-Wing guy. That game probably wasn't fun for him and he conceded. To him, it wasn't very sporting. Then, the OP comes to the forums to make a thread to drudge up people to agree with him to support his theory that he is right. Without even hearing the other side of the story, you dump all over him and congratulate the other guy for doing a good job and following the rules. But hey, he's not here to defend himself is he?

I am again going to call BS on this line of thinking. A-wings are flankers with a missile platform. Why would anyone just fly into tanks with 360 degree firing arcs? That's not being sporting... that's being dumb. Given the set up of the two squads and how the alpha round went.... why would the A-wing player do anything other than what he did? Furthermore, this is a viable tactic that was used over and over again in WW2. Bombers would eventually lose their fighter support due to lack of fuel, and then the bombers themselves could only fly so long if they wanted to have enough fuel to get home. AAs and defending fighters would harass the bombers and force them off flight path. The fighters didn't need to engage directly, just force the bombers to use up fuel. But back to this game.... Part of the reason why so many people think Interceptors and A-wings are not worth their points is because of the mind set that one always has to be attacking. In a tournament setting this is not the case. The goal is to have scored 12 more points than your opponent by the end of time. Avoiding further losses and not engaging in risky combat is a valid, legal, and sportsman like tactic. Stalling and causing turns to take longer is not. Furthermore, forcing your opponent off of their original strategy is part of how you SHOULD be playing this game. Not being able to change or being unwilling to change your tactics is how you often lose this game. And how dare anyone fly the banner of "Fly Casual" as means to call defense-first play unsportsmanlike. Do not tar or sully the beauty that is Fly Casual by demanding that people play the way you "feel" they should. We have our rules and we stick to them. Fly Casual means to continue having fun while playing even in the face of defeat. It means shaking hands with the person you just played and leaving your excuses and hubris at the door. Defense first is a viable strategy, and you'd better start preparing your lists for it now! A-wings are getting upgraded and the Interceptors already have been. The meta is changing. Swarms and jousting are not the only way to play this game. I think you misunderstood my post. I don't have a problem with how the OP played (based on his description, which is all we have to go on) I was commenting on someone who's sole tactic is to get 12 points and has no intention of ever really playing after that. For those that know Blood Bowl, it's like you're playing a team who's ahead by a point in the second half. They have possession of the ball and half your team is off the pitch due to KO's, injuries or whatever. The player then doesn't try to score and just runs out the rest of the match giving you no chance no matter how good or poor a player you are. Based on the OP's description, he should have won. My comment was more aligned to stalling tactics in general which is also kinda trolling. There're people in this thread who say an all ion list is trolling, but an all-evade list isn't. Both of them CAN be but that doesn't mean they are. It all comes down to how they are being flown and everything in this thread is based on a second-hand account. Also, this is from someone who loves all A-Wing and Interceptor lists. I do understand your point, and my previous comments were not solely directed at you. What is wrong with going into the game with the original game plan being win the alpha strike and avoid risky combat and any losses thereafter? Also, why would that not be fun to play against? I'll answer both questions. 1) Nothing. It forces people to play in a different mind set and there are some players that think there is only one way to play this game. 2) I would have loved to step in and take those 3 Y-wings in an attempt to hunt those A-wings down! An opponent forcing me to change gears is not "unsportsmanlike" nor does it cause me to stop having fun. I'm having fun every time I push a little piece of my childhood around the table. I also know that there is NOTHING inside of the rules that an opponent can throw at me that I can't find a counter for. Finding the counter is PART OF the fun! So yes... BS on both counts. To address your "trolling" concern. There is no (let me repeat that) THERE IS NO "troll", "newb", "unfair" list in this game. ANY 100 point squad has a chance of beating any other 100 point squad. Those who wave the flag of "Fly Casual" will tell you this and will certainly NOT use any such language as to suggest a player is [insert name here] based on their list. Lulz. For someone who seems to act as the authority on "Fly Casual", you have an interesting definition of "casual". As you seem to have the definition of, "as long as something isn't strictly forbidden, it's totally cool." There is such a thing as violating the spirit of the rules you know. I have a feeling that you would whip out a Star Fortress against a new player and shrug your shoulders if they made a comment that it isn't fair.

I am again going to call BS on this line of thinking. A-wings are flankers with a missile platform. Why would anyone just fly into tanks with 360 degree firing arcs? That's not being sporting... that's being dumb. Given the set up of the two squads and how the alpha round went.... why would the A-wing player do anything other than what he did? Furthermore, this is a viable tactic that was used over and over again in WW2. Bombers would eventually lose their fighter support due to lack of fuel, and then the bombers themselves could only fly so long if they wanted to have enough fuel to get home. AAs and defending fighters would harass the bombers and force them off flight path. The fighters didn't need to engage directly, just force the bombers to use up fuel. But back to this game.... Part of the reason why so many people think Interceptors and A-wings are not worth their points is because of the mind set that one always has to be attacking. In a tournament setting this is not the case. The goal is to have scored 12 more points than your opponent by the end of time. Avoiding further losses and not engaging in risky combat is a valid, legal, and sportsman like tactic. Stalling and causing turns to take longer is not. Furthermore, forcing your opponent off of their original strategy is part of how you SHOULD be playing this game. Not being able to change or being unwilling to change your tactics is how you often lose this game. And how dare anyone fly the banner of "Fly Casual" as means to call defense-first play unsportsmanlike. Do not tar or sully the beauty that is Fly Casual by demanding that people play the way you "feel" they should. We have our rules and we stick to them. Fly Casual means to continue having fun while playing even in the face of defeat. It means shaking hands with the person you just played and leaving your excuses and hubris at the door. Defense first is a viable strategy, and you'd better start preparing your lists for it now! A-wings are getting upgraded and the Interceptors already have been. The meta is changing. Swarms and jousting are not the only way to play this game. I think you misunderstood my post. I don't have a problem with how the OP played (based on his description, which is all we have to go on) I was commenting on someone who's sole tactic is to get 12 points and has no intention of ever really playing after that. For those that know Blood Bowl, it's like you're playing a team who's ahead by a point in the second half. They have possession of the ball and half your team is off the pitch due to KO's, injuries or whatever. The player then doesn't try to score and just runs out the rest of the match giving you no chance no matter how good or poor a player you are. Based on the OP's description, he should have won. My comment was more aligned to stalling tactics in general which is also kinda trolling. There're people in this thread who say an all ion list is trolling, but an all-evade list isn't. Both of them CAN be but that doesn't mean they are. It all comes down to how they are being flown and everything in this thread is based on a second-hand account. Also, this is from someone who loves all A-Wing and Interceptor lists.

Just to throw another hat into the ring... 1. What the OP did is totally supported by the current rules. 2. His opponent performed poorly. Without having watched the game, I can't say for certain whether the OP tried to engage at all during that time. But, running out the clock in a strategy game is kind of a **** move and definitely goes against the idea of "fly casual." Winning is good and winning is fun. Winning when removing the "playing" part of the game isn't fun at all.

I would LOVE to go, but sadly it is the same day as the Imdaar Alpha event.

All of the ships for the individual missions need to be pulled from your master "fleet" list. That list is 200 points. So you get 200 points of options to make your smaller lists from. So for mission h1, you need to make a list that's 125 points. But, you can only make that list using the ships, pilots, mods, etc. that make up your 200 point list. I hope that makes sense.

That is good news (as that's where I buy my stuff), though it would really make my dreams come true if you were open later on weeknights. XD

I am. I live in St. Charles and am looking for people to play in the St. Louis area.

How about this list I just came up with called, "A Black TIE Event" Howlrunner (18) BSP + Draw Their Fire (15) x2 BSP + Opportunist (18) x2 BSP + Veteran Instincts (15) 99 pts The ships with Draw Their Fire are their to stop crits from hitting the more valuable ships. Howlrunner & the ship with Veteran Instincts work to strip tokens, giving the two ships with opportunist an extra die along with the rerolls from Howlrunner.

Unless the bases are larger then a large base, a large base is 3.2 inches so, this has 2, then add in about 1.5 inches for a center connector. Huge ships are around 8 inches give or take and a range increment is about 4.6 inches so range 5 would be 23 inches, no where near the size you believe. These ships also move slower then the small ships, moving at a speed of one a small ship going 1 really achieves the speed of a huge ship going 2. These ships also don't bank the same way as a normal fighter, meaning it will take less forward space, BUT more space behind them (would hate to fish tail off the board) to actually get them to where they are needed. Personally I wouldn't want the board much larger then 3 feet due to it would take large ships at least 2 turns to get into range of each other if not more unless they gun it. This also makes it more reliable to put the huge ships into the center of the map instead of the sides. The point of this game mode is to make a much larger battle not increasing the time it takes to start a battle. Seeing how the ships move, they wont have to be that concerned with flying off the map, unless you are planning on just running to the edge then trying to turn it back around. Mostly I see people getting mad that this mode isn't turning this game into an 8 x 8 play area where you have to walk across the board just to reach your model, taking around 6-7 turns to do anything. On a side note, yes we will need bigger playing spaces, but hey I already think I have a solution for mine, just double the cardboard displays I have that I glued some felt onto. Two next to each other would give me more then enough room and be sturdy enough to hold the ships with 6 inches of overhang on the table. Thr transport is 8 the corvette is about 11. Any imperial ship is going to be over 12. Range 5 is almost 2 feet. As I said it's off the board. I didn't say I wanted an 8 foot table but 4 foot between players would of been preferred. My guess is they wanted small ships firing on huge ships on turn 1. But it basically makes range 5 more fluffy then useful You need to remember though, that players generally deploy in opposite corners. The diagonal distance from corner to corner will be roughly 6.7 feet. If you deploy your huge ship all the way in your corner, that's a LOT of distance that the enemy needs to cover to get in your range...

I'm pretty inexperienced myself, though I have a lot of ships. I've just been having a hell of a time finding people to play.

Thanks for the info! Wargamers Cave is a little bit of a trip from my house, but it's only about 15 minutes away from my work. (I work in downtown STL) I may have to check it out sometime soon. Maybe we could meet up there sometime for a game?

I'm a relatively new player in the STL area, specifically St. Charles. I'm looking for some regular people to play with. Right now I've only played games against my wife, who isn't really interested in playing. So is there anyone out there who wouldn't mind a new opponent or who knows of an active place to play?