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  1. Yeah the missing out on forgotten actions is a bit more forgiving - I usually let one or two pass, but I've been stung on that when at the end of the match after handing one out earlier i needed a "forgive" myself and was told no! lol
  2. This is the thing, isn't it. I DONT play "slack rules". I dont always play well either, I forget to do actions, I frequently forget to use howlrunner's re-roll effect, etc. But I don't ask for freebies such as "can i have that focus I forgot to put on", and I don't wave range rulers around early, pretending I am looking for target locks. Whilst in theory you can have a checklist of "allowed slackness" that is discussed before a game, in reality you set up and play it, whether online or not. The checklist of what is allowed or not is already in place, no? The gamemaker wrote it! Anyway, my question - in practice what do you usually do, do you pull people up on it? Mention it at all? or say nothing?
  3. Yes they do. That reason is to make sure that both players have an equal understanding of how to play the game. It is perfectly OK for players to mutually decide to change a rule, enact house rules or allow some sort of short cuts. That said, it does need to be by mutual consent and the examples you gave are really taking things too far and breaking the spirit of the rules, at least in real life, face to face play. I have only limited experience playing on Vassal, and never X-Wing, but the realities of the computer interface do make some of formalities of the rules more tedious than beneficial, and I personally would cut people considerably more slack in that venue than I would in real life. Thanks for your input. Id argue against the "the realities of the computer interface do make some of formalities of the rules more tedious than beneficial" idea though. At least on vassal. example: They type: "TL from B1 to howlie" - then presses CTRL+L I watch it. If its in range, its a lock. If it isnt, they chose another action. Not much different to when taking a shot. Or any of the other things that happen, such as "Wedge using SwarmT, Biggs now PS9"
  4. SO I don't want to be a nark, but I do have a thing about rules. Games makers make rules for a reason, so why don't people just follow them? Annoyingly FFG have a section in the rules FAQ that they call "competitive play". It says when playing in tourneys you have to be strict to the rules. Well this is as much as saying "when you are not in a tourney you can take liberties and cheat a bit". Example 1: My best buddy introduced me to xwing a few months back, mostly so he could practice beating me at it before tournaments!! When measuring moving his ships he used to happily wave around his range ruler and grin "yeah im er, just measuring to see if there are any target locks about??..lol" Explaining that the rebels get to have a bit of a cheat there. A week or so ago I pointed out to him the FAQ about target locks - if you measure one and it IS in range you HAVE to target lock that ship. He now behaves himself but tells me he does miss having a bit of a cheat with the ruler. Example 2: Im playing x-wing on vassal. Ok so I am not in a tourney but I do want people to play fairly. My opponent sticks on all his ships fire arcs at once. Works out who can shoot who then starts shooting. I complain and he tells me that all his ships are at same pilot skill (PS4) so he can do that. I know from the FAQ that he is supposed to do his ships one at a time. Example 3: Also on vassal, my opponent sticks on his Target Lock range finder and then says, hmm, I will target Academy pilot 1. Whereas I know he is supposed to decide and nominate his "victim" first and then see if the TL is in range. I guess my question is, do you pull people up on the target lock rules or not? I never mind if I lose a game (I learn loads from those games), but I always play to win as competitively as poss, in a friendly way. I would prefer consistency on rules..
  5. This is interesting, I hadn't thought of this. You are saying that interceptors are expensive because they are great movers. (you certainly don't get much hull for your money.) - and due to falcons (and their 360degree arc) you are wasting a lot of your investment? If that is the case, what you are saying is that falcons are cheap for what they can do, so people play them, and the knock-on effect on tournament play is that imperial players have limited choices when listbuilding?
  6. I gotta feel for you sekac, its rough when people get misquoted. You typed "I've got no problem with turrets as a concept.. ..If I resented them, I wouldn't use them" - and someone replies to tell us that you think "that there should be no turret in the game"! You have also been accused of trolling. Most readers would see that you are not trolling though. :-) I started this thread complaining that an all turrent list wasn't much fun to play against, due to lack of maneuvering in the game and lots of replies have been as if I had asked for advice for winning. I had kinda expected to hear "yeah, they are a bit cheezy arent they?". That said, some good tips have come forward, so thanks to everyone for your inputs, even those who were "misreading" :-D
  7. YES this was kinda my point. Not that it was an impossibe list to play against, but the that fun factor died. There have been good suggestions in this thread about how best to fly against turrets, but thus far no good suggestions about how to make playing against an all-turret list any FUN.. ;-) What makes them not fun? Is avoiding arcs the only fun part of the game? Because frankly I just enjoy playing. Against Turrets or not. It's a fun game. Fair competition, a mental challenge, good placement for range 1 shots, succesfully running my opponent onto an Asteroid or blocking them at just the right time. All of that is fun whether they have a turret or not. Thats a good question - assuming you are not being rhetorical? I think it was a mixture of dissapointment followed by a feeling that something was missing? I haven't been playing long, but always play imperial (not much choice really, I use the hand-me-downs from my buddy who always plays rebel and loans me all his imperial gear. I think he only bought the imperial stuff to get the upgrade cards). I had been encouraged to fly the dark lord himself. I was told "I know he is only 2 dice attack but hes fun to flap around the board like a bat in scooby doo." So initially there was dissapointment - knowing there was not going to be any opportunity to "get behind" my opponent. Then generally something felt missing from the game. It wasnt fun. I dunno, maybe I was on my man-period. The game felt flat. Anyhoot, I have not played any turret ships myself. I have played lists that are high in Tie Fighters, Interceptors, or used firesprays. Even using Lambda I find a big part of the game experience is spinning the movement dial over and over wishing the move you needed was on there! For me, the game is trying to guess where the opponent will be, and trying to move in a way that you dont hit too much stuff. You know? The bit where you look at the table and think to yourself "assuming he moves to that spot, If I get into that spot there I might just scrape into range 1 on him and only have one of his fighters able to hit me - split his attacks and get a close in shot - seems worth it". THAT was missing. So because my 4-turrent opponent was not trying to outmanouver ME, I didnt feel like I had any kind of "movement battle". It kinda reminds me of watching a game when two people just went joust-koigren-joust-koigren repeat until someone won. It was dull to watch. Where is the fun in that? Those two guys should have just put their lists into a computer program which spits out the winner. Some people like snakes and ladders. You know? The game where you don't make any decisions and just roll and roll to see who ends up at the top first.. Not me.
  8. YES this was kinda my point. Not that it was an impossibe list to play against, but the that fun factor died. There have been good suggestions in this thread about how best to fly against turrets, but thus far no good suggestions about how to make playing against an all-turret list any FUN.. ;-)
  9. I dont agree with this at all. Ions are a rebel weapon - so are going to often (mostly) be up against imperal ships. What sheilds do most imperials have? Oh none on the tie fighers or interceptors. Ions roll 3 dice. Thats pretty tough. Ok so only one damage? Thats a third of a tie gone - and then ioned too. Two turrent ships - you are at 6 dice.. it adds up to regular and consistant damage.
  10. Thanks for the input everyone. "they are here, get used to it" - I suppose this is pretty good advice! "stay at range 3" - kinda awkward. You have to fly backwards to pull that one off really. On a 3x3 map you are either bombing away at full pelt then koigren turn getting one hit before getting shot as you run, or you are skirting the edge keeping away but not getting any shots in. Well thats how it seemed on the night. Believe me I was trying to stay at range 3 or further.. "you can deal with them" - well yes I can I suppose, and would have "dealt" with them a lot better with a more competitive list. But my point was not that I lost, but that the playing lost a lot of it's enjoyment. I've had a lot of games that I have lost but were awesome fun none-the-less. This wasn't one of those games. Seems to me that the game was designed a "dogfight in space" game. With turrents you are losing a big part of the game, the bit where you and your opponent are making decisions designed to outmanouver each other, to get shots where the other cannot or to get dice advantage. "turrents make sucky ships more playable" - well I guess so. But the points system seems to be well balanced I think. A sucky ship might be just what your list needs to fulfil more overall "hull" or whatever. Tie fighters are rubbish. They are also cheap and 3 agility is awesome. Y wings might be rubbish, but you get a lot of ship for your points. I have only played one tourney and didnt see anyone play such a list during that so it probably isnt that competitive - which means I wont have to endure it again very much. This game is great because it is Star Wars (which is cool!) plus it is a fun game to play, whether you win or lose. I think I am complaining because Ive had a game that wasnt as fun as I am used to. Ok I'll stop complaining now.
  11. Ive only been playing a couple of months but I am already addicted, and yesterday I decided to stop playing low-ps multiple ships lists and branch out with some more "trick" pilots. So after watching episode IV (1977 version - yeah Im oldskool) earlier in the week, I'm up for having fun with Vader and two ties. Did my research and discover that the two ties are Backstabber and Mauler. So that's one crew sorted. Then I spend all the remaining points on carnor jax all souped up. So I bring the gear along yesterday evening to have a game with a guy I don't know too well. And well assuming you read the title of this thread you can guess what happened. All the fun I thought I was gonna have with Vader and Carnor dodging around (plus barrel-rolls with the ties) didn't happen. No dogfighting really, just being shot at with 360 degree turrents. I thought this was a dogfighting game? He had loads of Ywings and a Mouldy Crow, ALL with turrets. I wasn't expecting my list to be particularly competitive. I was going for a "cinematic" experience chiefly. But I DID expect to be dogfighting and having fun. :-( It really took the shine off of the game. Am I alone?
  12. Thats 32 points that is. 1 more point and you have a firespray. Im guessing engine upgrade helps a lot? I used advanced sensors to mitigate the poor dial a bit but I can see that engine upgrade would help (although it costs actions).
  13. I like that they make it clear that when "thinking" about doing a target lock, you have to declare a specific intended target first, and if it is in range you MUST do the lock. It stops all that cheating about range and shots during manouver where people pretend they were checking for target locks when really they were seeing what shots were "on". Is this "must do the lock" rule new, or did I just not know about it earlier?
  14. Great stuff. I particularly like the A-wings.
  15. I don't like the idea of random lists at all. Some are gonna just be a bit too poor. Quazi-random, well that has some merit. BUT I DO think the idea of inventing a fresh competition format is a good idea. So I've tried to invent a new tournament format for you: The tournament organisers create 4 FIXED lists. Maybe at 80points (should make the battle a bit shorter). They DONT publish the lists in advance, but they DO issue an invite to 20 players (and maybe 2 or 3 reserves who might get a game if there are drop outs). Now these 20 players are going to have to bring a number of ships and their cards, as instructed by the tournament organisers. The organisers are going to put together four 80 point lists, and the entrants will need to bring the ships that they have been told to bring. In the days before the tournament the entrants will be speculating as to how the four lists might use the ships out of the full roster, but they won't know until the day of the tournament! The 20 players are split into 4 pools of five players. In the "swiss rounds" each player plays a 60min timed match against all the other 4 players in their pool, and has to play the list they are told to play! The player with the most wins (modified or whatever) after the swiss rounds goes through to the knockouts. In the event of a tiebreaker (lol) the player with the most total kill points during the swiss is the one who goes through. Each pool will have a winner, so with four pools of players, you have two semi-final rounds and then of course a final. The players get to choose which list of the four they want to play in their semifinal match. (untimed match). Same rule for final game. What do you think people?? With clever listbuilding a tournament organiser should be able to create something that is fun to play, fair for all, and uses stuff that doesnt get dusted off very much. The better players should come out on top, because they can see "how" a list might best be played after only seeing it for five minutes, and (if desired) you could make a tournament that doesnt include all that many different ships, just core and a handful of other ships from each faction so you dont have to be Mr Rich to take part..
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