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ErPanfi

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  1. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to MBarber82 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    Just so you guys see the big picture, I collected the awesome assets the community had lost due to this whole mess:
     
     
    The best online deck building tool that worked perfectly on mobile devices and was used by thousands of avid players.
     
     
     
    The best deck builder for iOS, built by the same guy who brought us the tournament organizer app. Net Deck is off the App Store as of yesterday afternoon.
     
     
     
    This was a really handy tool that allowed you to see every Netrunner card anytime they were mentioned in a text. It became inoperable once NetrunnerDB went down.
     
     
     
    They are a German YouTube team that provided pretty good tournament coverage in English, comperable to Team Covenant quality-wise. They were not affected by the API takedown but chose to refrain from covering Netrunner in the future in fear they will be next. They are not protesting but simply afraid they will come under legal action by FFG; so, why put any effort into Netrunner.
     
     
    The Android platform's own deckbuilder app cannot fetch card data any more either.
     
     
    Littlechiba.com is unable to display card info anymore.
     
     
    NRTM (which is the best tournament orginizing aid hands down) is no longer able to update its identity database automatically, making using the app a lot more cumbersome.
     
     
     
    They had it coming, and I don't think anyone is disagreeing with them being gone. The fact so many others had to suffer is whole other matter...
     
     
    I'll update this post once more of the collateral damage comes to light. Oh, and I am too jumping on the boycott train against FFG. I know it seems like an overreaction for many of you, but I just don't feel good about giving them my hard earned cash. Good thing Doomtown Reloaded came along.
  2. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to mauigreen in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    I'm a casual gamer & avid netrunner fan I heavily relied on the chrome Netrunner lookup extension that utilized NetrunnerDB. The lookup extension allowed me to participate in discussion on BGG & other sites easily, because it was so easy to reference the card(s) being discussed.
     
    Bottom line is that without these online deck builders & associated tools for players, this game is just too cumbersome for me to enjoy the game. CardGameDB is poorly laid out, and no where near as easy to use. 
     
    i feel like this is the end of Netrunner for me unless some amazing tools appear in the near future. It also makes me very weary of getting involved in any LCG game from FFG for fear of similar treatment in the future.
     
     
  3. Like
    ErPanfi got a reaction from kotlok in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    A quick link, just FYI.
  4. Like
    ErPanfi got a reaction from mrspank in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    SIGNED
    NetrunnerDB is a solid site, with precious features and much data stored within and extensively referenced in various communities (Reddit, bgg, etc...).
    I understand that copyright issues needs to be solved but, honestly, a whole site takedown is not the right solution.
     
     
    By the way, I just gave a try to the new version of CardGameDB today... It's literally unusable with small screens, and it doesn't provide nothing more than NetrunnerDB, while presenting more setbacks in various areas.
     
    Seriously, if that is the official deckbuilding tool there much work to do on it.
    A few hints:
     - import is only by plain text (export is also on OCTGN format, though), and often it fails with "Data column(s) for axis #0 cannot be of type string". No user readable error messages? Seriously?
     - Information about cost/strength graph must be filtrable by card category: I want to se the strength of my ICEs paired with the cost of ICE rez... Not Ice rez+Asset rez+Operations
     - Maybe I'm not that savvy, but... is there any use for the influence pie chart?
     
    Maybe part of your agreement with Alsciende may be to have his consulence on how to improve CardGameDB? ;-)
  5. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to Eridine in Post here if you don't find the NetrunnerDB C&D unreasonable   
    I am not now and have never been employed by Fantasy Flight Games, any of its parent companies, any of its subsidiaries, or indeed any gaming company, and the only association I have ever had with Fantasy Flight Games, any of its parent companies, any of its subsidiaries, or indeed any gaming companies, has been purchasing and ejoying their products, specifically in the case of Fantasy Flight Games, Android: Netrunner.
     
    To everyone in this thread, it has been a pleasure speaking with you, and I look forward to continuing to do so tomorrow, but it is time for me to get some sleep. I'll see you all later.
  6. Like
    ErPanfi got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Post here if you don't find the NetrunnerDB C&D unreasonable   
    Seconding Alsciende here: there's a line between what is legal and what is right, and shutting down a whole site only to prevent use of the images, imo, is not right. 
     
    I'm looking forward to an agreement that allow NetrunnerDB to survive without any copyrighted infringement, but this requires FFG to state clearly what isn't licensed to use, in order to avoid similar situation in the future.
  7. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to Alsciende in Post here if you don't find the NetrunnerDB C&D unreasonable   
    @Eridine, to start with the end, it's always my great pleasure to have a conversation with civil people, even (and particularly) when we disagree. I'm glad that you presented another point of view in a respectful manner (in no small part because FFG has not yet replied to my letter.)
     
    I wouldn't call the images "high-res", but that's bickering over words. What I'm trying to say, mainly, is that those images cannot be used to counterfeit the cards. At least, no more than the ones provided by FFG themselves. I shouldn't have used the term "criminally". I meant "harmfully". Arguably, providing 1200dpi versions of the card would enable true counterfeiting of the cards by a professional printer, and that would be more harmful to FFG than those 72dpi images.
     
    Now, on the legal angle of the discussion, the level of harm I'm causing is irrelevant (I guess), as long as I'm infringing on their copyright. That's ok, I get that. But if we talk about the reason that FFG could have to grant me a licence to use their copyrighted material, it's different. Since I'm not causing any harm to their company (arguably, I'm even supporting their activity), since the material I'm putting online is already online, one could hope that they'll agree to grant me a licence to continue operating, within certains boundaries and under certain rules.
     
    Unless they have other motives to shut me down, of course. As you said, they may want their tools to be the only tools available. I'm fondamentally opposed to this idea, but I know that it's perfectly within their right. A:NR is their creation.
  8. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to Alsciende in Post here if you don't find the NetrunnerDB C&D unreasonable   
    Hi Eridine, I'm the owner of netrunnerdb.com, thanks for posting an explanation of your opinion here. I'd like to add a few things.
     
    You think that FFG has a couple of good reasons to send a C&D. I'd like to adress the first one. You are saying that netrunnerdb.com provided high-res card art through its API. That's at least as vague as speaking of IP instead of copyright.
     
    Netrunnerdb.com is hosting 300x418 pixels images of the cards. Jinteki.net was (it's not anymore) hotlinking these images on its pages. The API has nothing to do here. 300x418 pixels images are exactly what fantasyflightgames.com is hosting, and far less than what cardgamedb.com is hosting for some cards.
     
    A card you all know, on netrunnerdb.com (300x418):
     

     
    The same card, on fantasyflightgames.com (300x418):
     

     
    The same card from cardgamedb.com (430x600):
     

     
    So, did netrunnerdb.com provide criminally-large versions of the cards? No. The images that jinteki.net hotlinked to on netrunnerdb.com are provided by FFG itself on its websites.
     
    I'm not saying here that I have the right to use these images even if FFG doesn't want me to. But I didn't and I don't provide "high-res" versions of the cards. Or at least, be specific about what is "high-res" and why it's harmful for one website to host them and not for another.
     
    Your second reason is that FFG acquired a deckbuilder and would want other deckbuilders to close to foster traffic and usage of its acquired deckbuilder. I can't argue with that. It's not factual, it's a matter of opinion. FFG can forbid the usage of all its copyrighted material to everyone if that's their wish. (Here we can note that FFG cannot, in fact, forbid the existence of a deckbuilder that would not use any trademark or copyrighted material.) Is it a good reason? I think that's to everyone to decide for himself. 
  9. Like
    ErPanfi reacted to Eridine in Post here if you don't find the NetrunnerDB C&D unreasonable   
    To Alsciende: You are correct, some of my phrasing was poor there. My use of the term API was vague, but I thought the way I used the term would help communicate the it's meaning and the situation as I understood it to people who were unfamiliar with what was happening. Of course, this was nullified by the fact that the images were being hotlinked to, rather than being specifically and purposefully made available through your API, as I thought was the case. My apologies for the mistake.
     
    As to whether or not the images are "high-res," it is true that I never provided a definition, but I am comfortable with saying that images that match the quality used by the people that produce the product are of high enough quality to deserve that moniker. I will admit that it is possible that that term might have a specific industry meaning that those images do not fit, in which case I will withdraw that statement. Also, I do not believe I claimed that it was harmful for one site to host them over another, just that it was an infringement for a site to host them if that site isn't owned by/hasn't been granted a license by the owners of the copyrighted material in question.
     
    As to netrunnerdb.com providing "criminally large" versions of cards, I agree that they weren't, because the size of the infringing item isn't a factor in whether copyright infringement rises to the level of being a criminal matter, as opposed to (as in this case, and far more commonly in general) being a civil matter. (if you are interested in the relevant factors taken into account in determing whether copyright infringement rises to the level of criminality, check 17 U.S. Code § 506 (a)(1)) Even though these pictures were not criminal, they certainly were infringing, whether or not FFG had posted them on their website.
     
    I would lastly like to thank you very much for responding to my thread, compliment you on the stellar work you did on netrunnerdb.com, and just say that while this is the first time that I have personally interacted with you, I do spend a decent amount of time both here and on BGG, and so I'd like to take this opportunity to compliment you on being a beacon of civility on the internet.
  10. Like
    ErPanfi got a reaction from mysticpickle2 in Petition against NetrunnerDB Cease & Desist   
    SIGNED
    NetrunnerDB is a solid site, with precious features and much data stored within and extensively referenced in various communities (Reddit, bgg, etc...).
    I understand that copyright issues needs to be solved but, honestly, a whole site takedown is not the right solution.
     
     
    By the way, I just gave a try to the new version of CardGameDB today... It's literally unusable with small screens, and it doesn't provide nothing more than NetrunnerDB, while presenting more setbacks in various areas.
     
    Seriously, if that is the official deckbuilding tool there much work to do on it.
    A few hints:
     - import is only by plain text (export is also on OCTGN format, though), and often it fails with "Data column(s) for axis #0 cannot be of type string". No user readable error messages? Seriously?
     - Information about cost/strength graph must be filtrable by card category: I want to se the strength of my ICEs paired with the cost of ICE rez... Not Ice rez+Asset rez+Operations
     - Maybe I'm not that savvy, but... is there any use for the influence pie chart?
     
    Maybe part of your agreement with Alsciende may be to have his consulence on how to improve CardGameDB? ;-)
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