Yatta.

Episodes VII-IX. Eventually the game will reach its zenith. We will have to accept that.

The fact that a proportion of FFG's player base are going to a third party for models and creating alternate rules to field them says otherwise. There's a proportion of players that dremels their Falcons and installs LEDs. However, it's a very small proportion that doesn't warrant FFG to produce one after that small demand. Can you prove there's such sufficient demand that the company should change their game design and adopt a new faction?

That has actually already happened. The models are available as well, and selling. Which should go some way to suggest there's a real demand there that FFG can potentially capitalise on. They already are capitalizing on it, and thus there's no business need for a third faction.

The Rebel player still has to spend some of the 300 points to build the Transport and/or Tantive. They're not free to play, you're just limited to one of each, or two Transports, max. Or none, if you prefer to spend all 300 on traditional ships instead.

This post has brought me closest yet to accepting/wanting a fringe faction. Just nearly.

No they weren't. There are some large groups, like the Black Suns. But none could really be much of a match for the Rebellion let alone the Empire. But considering that a typical game in X-wing is 4-6 ships, there would be many pirate forces that could be a match for that. Even the largest game is a CR-90 and some escorts, which again would be a suitable target for a pirate raid. Sure, but I wouldn't call that a faction then if they weren't a unified force.

I'm not well versed in the EU. Were the pirates, smugglers, and bounty hunters a singular, unified force like the Empire and Rebels?

There was the argument made that both the Rebel Transport and Corvette containing crew, modifications and pilots that can be used in the 100 point game as well as Epic could negatively affect those who didn't want to/couldn't afford to buy the Epic scale ships. Wes Tarn, Hobbie and Jek (and many useful droids), are only available to those who buy the Rebel Transport. C3-PO and Han Solo to those who buy a Corvette. A lot of people voiced concerns about this, and that it might continue. Those concerns never occurred to me, but are certainly valid. Of course the same argument could be said for any unit people don't want to buy, but has upgrade cards that they want.

Please tell me how the introduction of the huge ships could possibly be a "greater complication to the status quo than the introduction of a third faction".

Cool. I do too. I want to get some epic games in. But, did you also make the case against those before they came out? They seem like they could potentially be a greater complication to the status quo that the introduction of a third faction would be, especially if that third factions uses a number of already existing ships, but then with faction-specific pilot cards. Please tell me how that's even possible.

I like the huge ships, if nothing else for the epic game play (exclusively now), upgrade cards, and the cool models.

If you're Imperial, you get 300 points of ships. No Tantive. No Transport. If you're Rebel, you get 300 points of ships. You may spend some of your points on up to 5 epic point ships. Tantive costs 3 and Transport costs 2. You still get 300 points and you still have to pay for those ships with your 300 points. You can include: 1) none of them 2) one Transport 3) one Tantive 4) two Transports 5) one Transport and one Tantive I suggest you read up on the epic game format here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/X-Wing-Epic-Tournament-Rules.pdf

Thanks for your input. First, do no harm. The two faction format isn't broken and the three faction format, as far as I can tell doesn't add anything. Second, a third faction restricts purchase. Some players choose only one faction or another due to limited funds. They might buy a single Firespray if they're a committed Imperial player, to supplement their fleet, but wouldn't otherwise buy enough units to have not just a viable 100-point build, but several unique builds. Third, additional factions limit those ships to just those factions. You can't use an X-Wing in an Imperial squad because it's not part of their identity. That makes sense. But FFG had put the Firespray, YT-1300, HWK, Z-95, etc, into a Fringe faction, then neither Imperial nor Rebel player would ever have a chance to use them in builds. Or FFG would make them available to both, which dilutes their identity even more. Fourth, the beauty, to me, of the mythos of Star Wars is that it's this simplified sci-fi fantasy. It's black and white, good and evil. There is little room for gray, which is why even guys like Han get swept up into one side or another. There are surely other reasons. These are just the ones off the top of my head.

I just think it would be a great way for them to put more fringy ships out there, which also double as civilian/on-combatant ships as plot devices in missions. Sithborg, others, and I have asked no less than four times already, and I don't believe anyone has answered yet: how does a third faction introduce fringe ships in a way that the current Imperial/Rebel dichotomy does not? If bounty hunters were released with Imperials and smugglers with Rebels as has already been done, how is this in any way inferior to creating a third faction just for them?

YAYYYYYYYYYYY!

Can you be happy using the Firespray, YTs, HWK, etc as unaffiliated ships in house rules? Must FFG release a third faction that everyone else has to deal with?

Simmer down you two (FTS Gecko & WonderWAAAGH). You aren't adding anything constructive to the discussion anymore, just trying to see who can push the bigger button. That's fine and dandy, but could you please do it in private messages instead? Thanks.

I agree, but obviously some people on this thread feel very passionately that only including those ships in a third faction somehow creates diversity. I find that more limiting, because then you couldn't fly Imperials with bounty hunters, or Rebels with smugglers. I was hoping to hear some intelligent contrary points of view.

Let's suppose FFG intends to produce three new bounty hunters and three new smugglers. How is creating a new, third faction and dedicating most of Waves 6 and 7 entirely to that faction any better than producing those same bounty hunters and smugglers, but incorporating them into Imperial and Rebel factions? Sithborg has been trying to get at this several times before, but no one has answered yet. Edit: supposed FFG intends to produce three, not four, since we already have Firespray and TY-1300. Slight rewording, too.

...again with the "too late to change"! The game is not even two years old, for pity's sake. Too late to undo the precedence of YT's going Rebel and Firespray going Imperial. It seems they already made it clear this will be a two faction game.

This.

Everyone wants to redesign another company's game.

There were plenty of WWI weapons still in use during WWII. It would be plausible to still find Clone War era ships still flying but I agree they should be separate for game play. Good point, but they were obsolete. The prequels weren't even really about the ships anyway, since it wasn't a full blown civil war. They were the (poorly executed) drama of the fall of a republic, with some ground warfare and special operations. Even if FFG decided to wade into the prequels for ships, there just wouldn't be as much to use. Certainly none as interesting as we've seen so far.

I'd quit playing. Agreed. They are so lame looking Yea, I like to pretend he prequel trilogy never happened for the most part. Three people that can't accept differences in taste, style, and so on would leave? Oh, sweet. Release the N1, FFG! Obviously more than just three people feel that way. From the responses on previous posts, I think it might be the vast majority. Why? The technology, culture, and battle lines of the Galactic Civil War were distinctly different from those prequel timeline and Clone Wars. It'd be like fielding WWI and WWII armies onto the same battlefield. They should be different games, or at least different phases of an extended game.