I see your point. I'm not especially bothered by bolter porn - it has its time and place, but I, too, am tired by how basically all Space Wolves stories have the same narrative: Wolf faced by overwhelming odds. Wolf still charges the hell in (or does some similarly stupid, impulsive and boderline suicidal act). Wolf still comes out on top, against all odds, either by unrealistic luck or by unrealistic abilities. It's like a shonen manga or a Saturday morning cartoon for kiddies. No lessons ever learned, not character development, nothing. Still, playing a Wolf in Deathwatch can be a blast if the player sticks to one and only one of the above offered interpretations. Sweet mother, naaister gilde... :D That's f---ing golden. Ik heb het nog niet gehoord, maar dit is werkelijk briljant. :D Hats off to the translator. You're on a roll today, aren't you?

All right, all right, Ishtar and stuff, but still, it's a loanword in Latin, so if it's behaving a bit weird, it's not surprising The problem is I started to read the novels of the late Mr. Pratchett much earlier than 40k codices, and he does a brilliant job with Dog Latin - it's accurate, funny, smart, it laughs at itself and it doesn't look out of place anywhere. Guess my expectations are too high after he raised the bar. My mother tongue doesn't get a similar treatment, so it's harder to relate - Hungarian is not plugged in very often in western pop culture, the most it gets is the occasional Hollywood baddie when they can't find a Russian or Urdu speaker around, and Edward James Olmos in Blade Runner, but he cusses, and that appeals to the inner 12-year-old My dad has the habit of littering his speech with German sayings and expressions, and when I was a small kid, he always jokingly finished the German parts with "as the educated Arab would say". Took me a while to figure out that the Arab is speaking German because he's educated (hey, I was in pre-school), but it appears that this instilled the view in me that speaking a language has to be done in an educated way as it is part of a certain cultural standard I'm curious - why is that? What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

That is certainly the mature, adult-like approach You see, when they make up a word, like Astartes, I can fly with that, but when it resembles something existing, I instinctively and automatically focus on it, trying to understand the meaning, and when it turns out that nope, it's nothing, I just get angry because I unintentionally wasted time and energy trying to decipher gibberish. Either that, or I don't really pay attention, but still the red lamps and alarms go off in my head, warning me that something is off. It was pretty much the same with faux-German parts in Japanese pop culture - they use it with some regularity, but almost always badly, and if you don't speak it, it's just background noise, but when you do, it's a bit annoying (I do wonder whether it's the same for you, Lynata - I seem to remember your mother tongue is German, right?). The only part where High Gothic is worse is that I can usually spot German gibberish for what it is quite quickly, but I don't really interact with anything Latin since more than ten years, so I have to dust off the mental grammar rulebook, go through the declination and conjugation tables in my head and then realise it was all for nothing. It's like a small and annoying curse - I didn't ask for my awesome skill of partially understanding simpler Latin texts in my elitist hubris, it was thrust upon me by virtue of being a compulsory class Ultimately I try not to think about Astra Militarum too much, in the hope that after a while it will fade into the background, just like the majority of older, established High Gothic Faux-Latin. Except for the Raven Guard's motto, I'd sooner disband the team than to allow anyone saying that out loud And I solemnly promise that from now on I'll try to keep my bitching and whining about High Gothic in check. I don't usually get so easily ticked off by something this unimportant - sorry, folks. Graeco-Roman Ultrasmurfs were always cool, it's a bit of a shame that this got axed. I never had a problem with the whole Fantasy Counterpart Culture approach in 40k. I feel people went a bit overboard with the Matt Ward and Ultrasmurfs movie hating. Awww, why? His TT ability to infiltrate everything up to Scout Titans is the source of many good stories, I quite like that I'm on board with Cadia taking a major hit, but Creed's just too funny to discard. And any and all AL conspiracy theory is fun if thought out well. I kind of like the idea of a sort-of-loyalist endgame, but I'm just as satisfied with them representing the tendency of Chaos to rip apart itself. As for Logan, I do have a sort of headcanon I feel I share with the majority of 40k fans, where the Wolves don't have such an unhealthy fixation on wolfing their wolfy wolves. There is, of course, the part where a lot of their titles and whatnot are just exonyms, like how Wolf Lord is Jarl in Fenrisian, but I draw the line at wolf riders and Santa's Super (Antigrav) Sleigh. You can tell about them in some other post, then I'm a fan of including little shout-outs in my games to entertain myself. I once had a Daemon named after Visitor Q (especially after he told me about the movie - brrrrrr), and certain /tg/ Chapters also made a few appearance.

Well, for that to work you need to accept and embrace that your game will firmly occupy the extreme high end of the silly over-the-top-ness scale. There were a couple of fan-made comics doing the rounds on /tg/ about a bunch of orks masquerading as space marines, but for the life of me I can't remember the title. This one here shows the potential pitfalls though: Anyway, what is he looking for by playing an Ork? Physical strength? Marines got that covered. A super-choppy character? That too. The chance to act silly? There are plenty of close-combat-oriented Chapters with poor impulse control, who, with a little tweak here and there, can be made quite Orky - just roll a sillier Space Wolf or White Scar or something similar. Playing a Space Marine is no reason for acting all serious and monk-like all the time. So yeah, first and foremost ask him what he hopes to gain by playing an Ork, and try catering to that. As for the lady - well, the gender of the Marines is probably their least important characteristic. Still, I can sort of sympathise as I'd surely be slightly uncomfortable playing an SoB (or any other female character in any roleplaying game) at first. A SoB is a logical choice as it's as close to a Marine in role and attitude as it can get, and it crosses off "genetically altered" and "hormonal male supersoldier", but still leaves you with "heavily armoured, extremely violent". If she's willing to take that, good. If it doesn't fly with her either, you certainly need to check whether Deathwatch is the best-suited for the group at this point or not.

We're playing merry hell with thread coherency, but if that's the price of having a little life in here, I'm willing to pay it. As for headcanon - I don't think I have any. Not a coherent, all-encompassing one at any rate. I don't really think about what the Emperor might have actually wanted, or what kind of endgame might Chaos as a faction have in mind - I'm generally more focussed on smaller-scale, self-contained stories than on events of a world-changing magnitude, because there's less room for error in the first category. In fact, I'm willing to forgive a lot if I sense it falls under the jurisdiction of the Rule of Cool. My main concern is having powerful stories and narrative elements around as a source of enjoyment, and, as a corollary to that, a coherent continuity, because unexplained changes break my immersion. As an example: new wargear introduced as a result of experimenting or discovering a new STC design is a-okay, new wargear handwaved in by saying "we always had those, dummy, why didn't you notice before" is just plain wrong.* *I admit I don't really like Centurion Squads either. Here, I said it. They're sort of cool, but dammit, this is not how you do it. And I know there was an STC fragment thrown in, but they're hinted to be in service for a long time. They were kept up in the attics of hundreds of Fortress-Monasteries across the Galaxy, I s'ppose. Mind you, this doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading about or I'm not inspired by well thought-out theories of fellow fans - in fact, quite the contrary. So, what's your take?

Sorry. Old habits. You don't say Macbeth on a stage, you don't mention any space dwarfs, certainly not by name, and you don't say "Candlejack" out lou- [hours later, crawling back in:] It doesn't even mean that, it means more or less Stars of martial [somethings] - the second word is an incorrect plural adjective, not really latching onto anything. Aaaaaaaaargh. But, you know, as much as we talk about canon and its details (and this ties nicely into Lynata's statement on how "there's no canon"), the important notion is the Your Dudes one. 40k is not about the Emperor, or Mankind, or the Great Game of the Chaos Gods, or, dunno, the Greater Good or Lord Dante; it's about your very own ragged (or glorious) tabletop army or RPG Kill-Team. It popped into my mind as we were talking about Cpt. Tycho, who, from being a playtester's special character, actually ascended to a canonised state, but there are countless other examples (Adept Castus Grendel, anyone?). I tend to lose sight of this ever so often, while trying to source the colour of Marneus Calgar's underpants because I think knowing it would facilitate my players' immersion in one of my games* *please note I never actually tried to source the colour of Calgar's underpants, nor I intend to do so, ever. Just sayin'

Which story? Where? I need weapons to fight back, dammit! Anyway, the guy is a good friend of mine, and I'm trying to slowly wean him off of this habit, but still, it's frustrating. I feel it is always harder to accept the changes made to established elements in the universe if they happened after one immersed himself and internalised the then-available knowledge. I started with 40k in the mid-2000s, so I hate Horus Heresy books, Newcrons and the name "Astra Militarum" with the power of a thousand burning suns, but I'm not nearly as agitated about, say, GW dropping the Sq

My thoughts exactly what monster are you? I just realised my WD collection ends at #231. There used to be a White Dwarf archive on GW's website around 2010 with certain articles available in PDF format, so maybe the Wayback Machine can come to the rescue. Also, great. Now the Huntsman's theme song from Freakazoid will be stuck in my head for the rest of the day... if there's an emergency, sound the Horn of Urgency... [indistinct humming] ...kill me... That they are, but I guess everyone who entered the 40k scene by reading Ian Watson's novels first still retains a soft spot for them. The Pain Glove and carving one's own finger bones in remembrance of the fallen were the first epic grimdark moments I encountered, and nostalgia dies hard.

I wish it were like this, it'd be funny Sadly it takes the form of lengthy lectures about the origins or background of present-day in-universe stuff, so it's not the words of the divine Lorgar, it's the words on divine Lorgar GM: [Detailed in-game description of Ecclesiarchy rituals, followed by interaction with a high-ranking member, who hints that he finds the practices of the Marines sort-of-heretic. Conflict with Kill-Team starts to brew. GM is happy.] Joe: [spontaneous outburst on the irony of the Ecclesiarchy following practices and theology established by Lorgar. Explanation at length on Lorgar's actions, motivations and mental state during and after the decision to venerate the Emperor as god. Invocation of at least half a dozen lesser known supporting characters during these events, leaving everyone dumbfounded. A number of players leave to smoke.] after 10 minutes or so... GM: Anyway, where were we? [Process to build atmosphere and tension has to start again from scratch, with a generous amount of forced improvisation to avoid repetition. GM tries to hide frustration.] Truer words have never been spoken. Still, it doesn't help how I see the HH line

Nice play on the Spanish Inquisition scene. That aside, well, basically what the Slaneeshi Visitor said: have fun. From your other blog entries it looks like you managed to create a suitable environment for that, and that's all what matters, the rest is just technicalities. It's kind of hard to offer specific advice on a stream-of-consciousness piece, but if there's anything we can help you with, ask away.

Yeah, that sounds like a good place to get supplies from. When I ordered my (used) copy of Rites of Battle, the best offer was from the Eastern Washington area. I was lucky a friend was visiting family in NY, so at least I didn't have to pay for transatlantic shipping, because the price on that makes directly ordering from the US generally unfeasible.

Short version: well, you did suggest a few books earlier based on how an important aspect of 40k is particularly well explored in them - that's good enough for me Long version: I mostly read Space Marine literature, chiefly because I'm always on the lookout to nick quotes, Chapter rituals and background, interesting characters, plot hooks and any other ideas for my games. All that dissemination gives me a pretty solid overview on recent Black Library material on Marines, so I can tell you how, for example, David Annandale is a brilliant psychologist, and his descriptions of a Space Marine's thinking and dilemmas are absolutely fascinating, while also being true to the universe. On the other hand, the military parts of his novels are bad. And I mean totally, immersion-breakingly bad. I'm nowhere near to being a military buff, but even I can spot how the soldiering in his books has nothing to do with modern (or futuristic, or early, or any) warfare. That means that his novella, Forge Master (part of the Overfiend collection), is simultaneously the best and worst 40k SM stuff I'll ever read. Still, if you have a Salamander Techie player, it's a recommended read for him as the writer describes the process of identity building for a Salamanders Techmarine: the struggles between emotion and logic; the dilemma to reconcile the twin desires to be involved as his Chapter culture suggests, and to be removed, as the Machine God dictates; to re-balance his own sense of self - it conveys everything on 60-odd pages Nick Kyme didn't even touch in a whole trilogy. Nick Kyme, on the other hand, works beautifully in his Marines Malevolent short stories toward showing how negative human emotions - jealousy, misinterpreted pride, anger - can work in concert in a Space Marine Chapter to make Machiavellian utilitarianism and Social Darwinism the core of its being. This is good, because it's easier to get drawn in if the heroes are not faultless, and the Malevolents are as humane with all their pettiness as it can get. Periodically though I just get enough of that, usually after reading two or three bad stories in a row, and I feel the need to explore something else. The comics look like they're something worth checking out (I didn't even know about the Redeemer, can you imagine?), and I completely agree with what you said about the short stories in general, and the older, less thematic compilations in particular. There might be a re-reading in order. I'm currently at the point where I'm growing more and more unwilling to take on major 40k novel cycles, and I want to stop that tendency by reading something good, whatever the topic may be, that's the main reason behind asking for personal preferences. I give Horus Heresy a wide berth as a general rule, but based on those items of your list I've already read, your taste seems to be solid I'll be sure to check them out. Especially Firecaste, as it sounds silly enough, and the Chaos stuff, as it was a bit of a blind spot for me before, except for ADB's stuff. As for the Flesh Tearers, I recommend it. James Swallow created a well-written character in Seth, and Andy Smillie, who writes most of the new stuff, stayed largely faithful to that. As someone from the nameless masses of 1d4chan so aptly, if a bit uncouthly, puts it: "Swallow's take on Seth is a guy who understands exactly what he is and will play his given role to the hilt, and **** the pitfalls. He consistently strikes a balance between acting like a complete d**k and yet somehow hitting the precise level of d**k that he gets you steamed while also garnering exactly the attention he needs to get his point across. It's like he's attained a zen level of d**k other d**ks could only hope to emulate." Swallow's stuff is mostly buried in the latter half of the Blood Angels series, but Smillie's short stories are collected in an anthology, Trial by Blood. Casually dropping a tvtropes pothole? You're more evil than I expected - sad thing, it almost worked Either way, ADB is an unapologetic fanboy, I wouldn't put it past him to purposefully recreate a classic. Which White Dwarf number has the original? Finally, I have a specific question: Is Phalanx any good? I like Ben Counter's short stories, but Malodrax recently left a bad after-taste I'm keen to get rid of. I like the Fists too much to completely swear off reading about them.

I'm hunting the GM's Kit, mainly because that's the last print product of the DW line I don't own yet (and, to a lesser degree, because my inner 12-year-old screams WANT, WANT, WANT at the GM screen ) - it's outrageous what people are asking for what is ultimately a booklet and a colourful piece of cardboard on Amazon or Ebay. Luckily at the moment it looks like I can get it from a Polish shop at the original list price. I wouldn't mind a second edition - while actual play has not started yet, I have the DH2e core book and the streamlining looks good, I'd love to try it with Deathwatch. Barring that, an Errata update is something for which I'd even fork over hard-earned money, because the known mistakes, omissions and ambiguities are killing me, and the fact that a lot of those are actually resolved and only need compiling and editing just adds insult to injury.

How lively this place has become in the last few days Anyway, loyalist Chapters subscribe to the notion of protecting of Mankind as an abstract concept, which generally includes an unwillingness to straight up commit genocide (at least when said humans are loyal). The tolerance for collateral damage, however, is a sliding scale, Marines Malevolent or Black Templars being closer to one end, Salamanders to the other, and it is influenced not only by Chapter culture, but also by countless other factors (nature of the threat, strategic or tactical situation, etc.), and it is always evaluated on a case-by-case basis. So the question is basically whether individual human live is inherently valuable for Marines, right? For that, the answer - I think - is a resounding no. Marines usually approach such philosophical questions using Service and Sacrifice as cornerstones, and the value of an individual human lies in possessing a potential to render future service, even for the most mortal-friendly Chapters. So I think no, normal people as a rule don't matter, the only variable is the constantly changing threshold of acceptable collateral damage.

I've read At Gaius Point, and it's a good one, if a bit too short. ADB is usually a safe bet, I was glad he tried his hands with the Sons of Sanguinius. I don't recall reading about Tycho's death outside the Codices though. I'd like to read that story - which one is it? And while we're at the topic of 40k literature, what are your personal favourites, guys? I'd like to get some recommendations, if you don't mind. Also, for some reason I've yet to read a truly bad story about the Blood Angels & Co. Mediocre - yes, of course there were a few, but one without any redeeming qualities - no. While I admit that might be only because I haven't yet mustered the courage to start C.S. Goto's The Blood of Angels, I suspect it's also because the two-faced archetype somehow resonates with the reader.

Looks like you're mixing up the preferences of the Imperium with the preferences of Ciaphas Cain, which is a forgiveable sin Remember though that he himself preferred to drink tanna when he (or rather Jurgen) could get his hand on it. I also have to admit that I'm a bit intrigued. What else besides a taste for tea could characterise a retelling of the Imperium of Man as British Empire... IN SPAAAACE? Furthermore, I maaaay have watched too much Archer and Frisky Dingo recently, causing a bit of a popcultural cross-contagion, as evident from my post above. Nonetheless, I still like the idea of an alcoholic, overconfident, Rick-of-Rick-and-Morty-crossed-with-Archer type Apothecary.

"You, useless medical servitor. Oh wait, you're the assistant. You, useless assistant. Get over here. Get me some vicodin, fresh band-aids and a crate of whisky. Hold on. Make it two crates, and that freaky stuff you got me last time. It's all right. I've prescribed it for myself." Here, FTFY

Yay, a consensus! And all it took was a massive derailment of one measly thread! Seriously though, it's good to have my headcanon challenged occasionally. My next campaign will surely bring the restrictive aspects a bit more to the fore. Also, I didn't read James Swallow's SoB novels, but I'll check them out. I consider him a good writer, at least by BL standards - his Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers stuff are, for the most part, quite fascinating. I like to see a hero who refuses to embrace the comfortable Manifest Destiny-esque narrative and looks for the small inconsistencies, not to mention his take on Seth is masterfully contradictory. Hooray for antagonistic, yet relatable Marines!

You certainly can - at least I can't find any suggestion to the contrary in any of the relevant descriptions. The same thing makes it hard to provide references: there's no rule explicitly stating you can, it just doesn't say you can't. That also means all skill check modifiers apply, including the bonus provided by Narthecium. Lore also supports this, as Apothecaries rarely do major surgery on the field - enhancing the healing abilities of the Battle-Brothers bodies or stabilise their state when damage overwhelms said abilities is usually the best they can do healing-wise. Of course, there are also some extreme cases where common sense has to apply. I obviously wouldn't allow an Apothecary overseeing his own recovery while in a sus-an healing coma, and I'd only let an Apothecary tend to himself in cases of, say, multiple limb loss, when in a fully kitted-out facility, with available medical assistants or servitors present. Such cases aside, however, he can just as freely insert himself with hormone cocktails or sus-an coma-inducing drugs and apply bandages as he would with anybody else.

Hmm, yeah. I guess they must cut down on something else in order to fit that in? As it notes in the codex, many Chapters regularly change some of the times and details just to keep their Battle Brothers on their feet and disrupt regularity, so perhaps there are days where the company's Captain is like: "Right, today's midday meal will take place in the villages! Here are your individual allotments". Or perhaps visiting the villages counts as a "special duty" which commonly takes place between the evening meal and rest period (other examples include working in the Forge or the Apothecarium). Or it is rotated just like the honour of guarding the Fortress-Monastery's walls. The Marines who make up the watch aren't able to attend the timetable either, after all. The Salamanders' lore is a weird thing, as it is riddled with internal inconsistencies: e.g. 5E Codex and Index Astartes IV states there are seven companies overall, then proceeds to associate the "seven line companies" with the seven clans of the seven Sanctuary Cities (which would make elevation of Scouts or Codex reassignment between companies tricky). Imperial Armour vol. 10 repeats the same (at least it assigns Scouts to a separate "sub-company"), but a page later states the First Company is manning Prometheus. Maybe those "villages" are the nomadic settlements outside the Sanctuary Cities? Anyhow, in light of this, and Nick Kyme's novels, the presented timetable seems to be quite unmaintainable, with all that recreational / meditative blacksmithing going on. Maybe it's a corrupted record, and not only the sidenotes are of Black Templar origin, but the whole document - it would certainly fit my mental image of the Templars. I'm growing convinced our stances are basically the same in this, with only cosmetic differences. I also enforce the limits imposed by just being a Space Marine in my games, but it mainly serves as a backdrop. In a roleplaying game, especially in Deathwatch, where the Marines are pushed well outside of their comfort zones, there must be more leeway in expressing the remaining humanity, individuality, identity and (Emperor forbid) freedom of choice - in one word, personality - than in the monolithic, isolated cultural environment of a Chapter. I think about, search for, and line up arguments supporting this slight increase in elbow-room, because I'm a huge canon geek at heart, and I need my universe to stay internally consistent. If a player wants to be a "face" type Marine (of course no-one does, but bear with me for a sec), it's only all right if there are internal arguments supporting it. Choose a human-friendly Chapter. Choose a background of regular interaction with mortals, like living in a Nocturnean village, or ruling over one of the planets in the Realm of Ultramar for some period as a consul. Be prepared for massive penalties, as people crap their pants at the sight of you. The list goes on and on. War is the only thing of note, I agree. But there are many ways of waging war, and Deathwatch gathers experienced Marines, who need to learn (and, in fact, might even grow to appreciate) unconventional tools or methods to get the desired result. No wonder they usually get promoted upon returning to the Chapter. One of my favourite parts in one of my favourite Black Library novels, Death of Integrity by Guy Haley, is the beginning of Chapter 7, where the Chapter Master of the Blood Drinkers, suffering from the Thirst and already on the precipice of falling victim to the Rage, is shown painstakingly putting together huge and complex stained glass windows depicting Chapter legends, while reciting litanies. The devotional activity, mind-focusing in its delicateness, is not surprising from a Marine, but it's coming from a brutally utilitarian reason: he does it to fight the Thirst. As he himself puts it: "The creation of art was a tonic to the soul, a distraction from the infernal itch of the Thirst." But it also intertwines with an appreciation of art, a desire to create something beautiful, and the immersion in said beauty. As his Reclusiarch says a few pages later when visiting him: "Artistry is the great foe of savagery." For me, this probably the best 40k example of how a very utilitarian goal can be achieved through seemingly very unconventional means, how in forging the way to peak efficiency, as befitting a Marine, humanity and personality still can be expressed.

Now if a girl ever tells me these exact words, I'll immediately propose... Hell, even a paraphrase will do If I may, I'd like to draw your attention to Amenophis IV, on p. 115 of The Achilus Assault. I think you will find The Array and its people to your liking

That picture reminds me a lot of the (older) artwork for Paranoia. (Especially the marines in the background.) It even looks like it was made by the same artist, which is actually possible. The pool of RPG artists whose "talents" didn't limit them to drawing exclusively half-naked barbarian chicks in chainmail bikinis couldn't have been that big in the late 80s It wouldn't even be the weirdest way 40k and Paranoia ever crossed paths - that honour belongs solely to Vulture Warriors from Dimension X Meet Plenty of Cheerful Orks with Plasma Cannons, from the olden days when White Dwarf had a much, much broader scope. Edit: Messed up quoting. Can't fix it. Meh, whatever.

Be careful what you wish for I know it was a joke, but still, I couldn't resist

Oh. Uh. Guys, I only brought up horny teenagers (that is, a group of humans with poor judgement and even worse impulse control) as an extreme example of how normal humans' lives just might become visible for Marines under the same roof, not to disturb the hornet's nest that is Marine sexuality. For what it's worth, I think if you start with a 10-year-old, who has very rudimentary interests in that department, and start dissecting him in body and mind, giving hormones a radical overhaul in the process, and so on, doing it for years, there's a teeeeny tinty chance sexuality might not develop as it normally should Anyway, moving on. That is a very good point. In recent background, its arguments and implications are probably summed up best (and in a very enjoyable way) in the new(-ish) Iron Hands literature - primarily Flesh by Chris Wraight (in HaB 7) and the new Deathwatch Short Story, Deadhenge. The problem with this approach is that in my opinion it takes away too much from the Marines as characters, giving substantially less in return - it essentially makes the Marines cookie cutter characters, which makes for bad entertainment, be it literature, roleplay or something other. Sacrifice is already a central narrative element in 40k, and it's even more so in Space Marine context, so I value a more subtle approach to this theme, like voluntary sacrifice, over something I feel is best described as ham-fistedness, like obligatory or unknowing sacrifice. That aside, I do like the sheer brutality in the second, and you gave me some food for thought for my next adventures, but I feel it needs to be used in moderation - the dose makes the poison, after all Since the Scorpions Chapter is the brainchild of Forge World, their background is detailed in various Imperial Armour volumes, where the writers take great pains to emphasize how they're more Catholic than the Pope (that is, how they're somehow more Codex-compliant than the boys in blue), how the central tenet of their beliefs is genetic purity, and how they scorn anybody they perceive less pure (other Marines, human soldiers, especially Abhumans). Everything we know about them seems to evoke Nazi Germany, so yes, I consider them to be more Serious Business than usual. I'll check this Napola stuff. For me, it sounds like it is the kids who crave Space Marine positions because of the implied elevation in social status, not the Salamanders themselves. I think on every recruiting planet where the Marines' existence is common knowledge, aspirants want to get on board for all the wrong reasons. How should they know what's in store for them, after all? And Know Thine Enemy fails only where all bad GW background texts do: half of the people involved couldn't write military sci-fi if their life depended on it. I suspect Gav Thorpe is one of them, although he is usually a competent enough writer to hide this fact and compensate elsewhere.

I think the emotion of fear might be the key to understanding here, as it is as well established as it can get within 40k. Marines understand fear on an abstract level - they don't feel the gut-wrenching panic, but they know about it, can formulate their plans around it, and, generally speaking, experienced Marines can handle it in enemies and allies alike. Other emotions must be the same - romance, jealousy, even sexual drive must be something they learn about in theory. There are tales, myths and legends acting as repositories of human knowledge, experience and societal norms in our world, and it's hard to picture that it would be so much different in a Chapter, other than a massive shift of balance in favour of military lessons. But, then again, just think about the amount of military history classes they must sit through - these motives and emotions come up inevitably when analysing the acts of long-forgotten human allies or enemies. It's human history after all, and human history is in large part actually driven by such emotions. Some xenos, I imagine, also experience emotions, so if the weak point of some tentacle monster or knife-ear is sentiment, it needs to be understood in order to exploit it. There's also a learning curve for Marines, I give you that. Presumably an Assault Marine in the 8th can't handle regular people as well as a veteran sergeant, who has seen things, man, or the 4th Company Captain, who - as Master of the Fleet - has to regularly approve ordering shipments of condoms, nappies and schoolbooks. In that sense I concede defeat, what I just wrote combined with Imperial customs and reverence towards Marines and their own monstrous appearance might very well warrant a blanket interaction penalty. It's just... when the Raven Guard spies on an enemy officer announcing plans to get a few drinks and bed the missus in Visitor Q's example, I can't help but imagine the Marine recalling how Corax exploited a very similar situation during the liberation of Deliverance, where Sector 02-Epsilon fell in twenty minutes after catching Overseer Verwoerd off-guard in a seedy hotel room with his lover, a crate of crappy boxed wine and some fluffy handcuffs (the presence of which still baffles the scholars). What actually got me thinking was when my alternate GM's campaign kicked off last month and he asked for a character background, including childhood events. Doing a bit of a research, I realised the Red Scorpions whisk off recruits still in their infancy. Since the organ implantation still needs to wait until the kid is 10, that leaves them with a massive orphanage (they carry off infants, they have to start with a high number to have room for all the projected losses), complete with daycare, kindergartens, school and all. As a personal bit of info, I attended an old-timey all-boys boarding school and I think it must be somewhat similar, with added Boy Scout survival skills and Hitlerjugend indoctrination. Then I remember the silly stuff we pulled with my classmates, just because we were bored, and suddenly I can't take the Scorpions, one of the most Serous Business Chapters around, well, seriously. Because what else can you do? Put them in a coma until they reach 12? The missing development would make them physical and mental wrecks. Anyway, that kickstarted my train of thought of how life in a Fortress Monastery is actually much more human than we think, and even the Marines of the most isolated of Chapters share this living space with a small town's worth of people (including a given percentage of horny teenagers) at least tangentially. My point is, they can't possibly be totally blindsided by the mere concept or existence of, say, motherly love or human sexuality. They might not know the appropriate answer or reaction, especially in an unknown cultural environment, so yeah, bring on those penalties, but their brains don't melt away like some cheap sci-fi robot when exposed to a logical fallacy, just because somebody tells them humans have uses for those things between their legs. Edit: Wow. I just realised there's automatic censoring. Funny how for me (being a non-native speaker) these swearwords occasionally don't register as that offensive, especially after watching some police procedural show or listening to a hip-hop track. Anyway, I'll keep that in mind in the future.