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yeti1069

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  1. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from azato in Illness and Disease   
    Rather than add new talents to combat disease (I could see adding maybe one), the results of the Resilience check could be used to affect the d% roll...
    Success = unaffected by the disease.
    Advantage on a failure could reduce the roll by 10.
    Triumph could delay the effects of the disease for another day, or allow you to ignore (not be affected by) the symptom from the disease.
    Threat could add 10 to the roll.
    Despair could double the effects of the symptom for a day, or force you to roll twice on the table (not adding +10).
     
    I think disease recovery should maybe be a little faster than critical injury recovery, where appropriate. I would probably have each symptom, or each tier of severity dictate how frequently you get to roll a Resilience check: once a day, once every two days, once a week, once a month? Medicine checks could grant a new roll, or hasten how fast you get to try a new roll? The tough part, I think, is balancing the streamlined nature of the system with the fact that some diseases (in real life) last forever (are incurable), for years, months, or weeks.
  2. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from StriderZessei in Ongoing Sense   
    Stepping away from the mechanics and game play for a moment and looking at the films, the impression i have is that Sense's ongoing defensive effect is up most of the time for Jedi. They often get attacked while unarmed, and managed to draw and activate their lightsaber between the attack initiating their offensive action (swinging a lightsaber, or firing a blaster) in time to block the attack. Now, in a rounds based game, this doesn't quite work, but I feel like requiring an Action to commit a die is a little excessive, both because it appears to work in contrast to what we see in the films, and because it feels a bit punitive to remove that action at the start of each encounter.
     
    Personally, I'd split the difference and change it to requiring a Maneuver to commit a die--if you want to commit more than one, it will require another Maneuver. This way, at least, you could have some interaction between Sense and Foresee (grant a free pre-combat Maneuver to your party).
     
    That said, I also think it's reasonable to commit the die to defense whenever danger may be about. Meaning you'd just need to spend an Action for the offensive commit. The only problem I see with this approach is ensuring that there is some cost to players who do this. Suffering Strain is one way, but that feels a little much, and is fairly vague as to when that should kick in and for how often. Is it stressful to concentrate like that for 10 minutes? 30? An hour? half a day? Once you decide the stress has built up enough to suffer Strain, how often should it come up again? At the same interval? Every minute thereafter? What's the stop a character from dropping the commit when that time comes and then recommitting again a moment later? Do you then start measuring up-time vs. downtime ratios? Unless the character is very Force-focused, and has other powers, the times where they will want to use a power immediately, outside of initiative, but can't because they have a die committed will be super-rare. For someone like the character I'm building, who may want to be bale to use Move without a moment's hesitation to prevent someone or something from falling, or employ the dice to an unexpected Charm or Athletics check, that may be an inconvenience, but I can't imagine too many such circumstances arising where taking a moment to regain my potential would really mean anything.
     
    As an aside, if you have a Force die committed, do you still roll your Force dice with enhanced skill checks? That is, if I have FR 1 and commit a die to Sense, then roll a Charm check with the upgrade to Influence that adds my FR to the skill pool, do I get to roll the Force die or not? What about for the similar Overwhelm Emotions talent?
    As an aside to the aside, if you have both the Control Upgrade to Influence and Overwhelm Emotions, do you get to roll 2x your FR when making those Charm, Coercion and Deception checks?
  3. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from GM Hooly in Genesys Talents Expanded   
    Some talents I came up with:
     
    Illusionist
    Tier: 2
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast. Decrease the difficulty of the spell by one to manifest the effects as an illusion rather than their normal effects. Checks to disbelieve your illusions are made against the Magic skill you used to create the effect.
    Intense Concentration
    Tier: 1
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: Yes
    Spells you concentrate on require an additional Threat to break concentration per rank of Intense Concentration. (RAWR this requires one T to negate a maneuver)
    Master Illusionist
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Illusionist Additional Effect, you may spend a Story Point to increase the number or size of the effect(s) you manifest. (Not sure how to clarify this so it's less vague)
    Persistent Spell
    Tier: 3
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast that allows for concentration. Increase the difficulty of the spell by two to change the concentration of the spell to an Incidental on your next turn, instead of a maneuver. You may spend ^^ to extend this benefit for an additional round for each ^^ spent.
    Persistent Spell (Improved)
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    The Persistent Spell Additional Effect only raises the difficulty of the spell by one.
    Persistent Spell (Supreme)
    Tier: 5
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Persistent Spell Additional Effect, you may spend 2 strain as an Incidental on your turn to maintain concentration without having had to spend ^^ on the initial spell.
  4. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Noahjam325 in Genesys Talents Expanded   
    What do you all think of these?
     
    Invested Focus
    Tier: 5
    Ranked: No
    You gain the Focused additional effect for any spell that allows for Concentration. This increases the difficulty of the check by 1. If successful, expend 2 additional strain and reduce your ranks in the associated Magic skill, and your associated characteristic by 1 each to maintain Concentration on the spell for as long as your ranks and characteristic remain lowered without having to spend a maneuver each round.
     
    Mystic Surge
    Tier: 4
    Ranked: No
    Take the Mystic Surge maneuver to double the effects of the next spell you cast, before the end of your next turn. After casting that spell, you lose the ability to cast spells for the remainder of the encounter. (Summon an additional ally, double the damage dealt on Attack, increase the skills of a target affected by Augment twice, etc...).
     
  5. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Sturn in An Idea for access to Magic via Careers and Talents   
    On top of all that, while I do want characters to be flexible and have options, by giving every caster all of the spells and effects at once, there's nothing mechanically to differentiate one from the other: everyone has all the spells, whereas if they are making choices on what to learn, that further defines their character. 
  6. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from DarthDude in MyriadPro's Edge of Tamriel - Second Edition (Name Change!)   
    This is really cool!
     
    Question: do characters gain access to all Magic actions available by skill they are trained in, or do they have to "learn" these somehow?
  7. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from RebelDave in Genesys Talents Expanded   
    Some talents I came up with:
     
    Illusionist
    Tier: 2
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast. Decrease the difficulty of the spell by one to manifest the effects as an illusion rather than their normal effects. Checks to disbelieve your illusions are made against the Magic skill you used to create the effect.
    Intense Concentration
    Tier: 1
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: Yes
    Spells you concentrate on require an additional Threat to break concentration per rank of Intense Concentration. (RAWR this requires one T to negate a maneuver)
    Master Illusionist
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Illusionist Additional Effect, you may spend a Story Point to increase the number or size of the effect(s) you manifest. (Not sure how to clarify this so it's less vague)
    Persistent Spell
    Tier: 3
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast that allows for concentration. Increase the difficulty of the spell by two to change the concentration of the spell to an Incidental on your next turn, instead of a maneuver. You may spend ^^ to extend this benefit for an additional round for each ^^ spent.
    Persistent Spell (Improved)
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    The Persistent Spell Additional Effect only raises the difficulty of the spell by one.
    Persistent Spell (Supreme)
    Tier: 5
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Persistent Spell Additional Effect, you may spend 2 strain as an Incidental on your turn to maintain concentration without having had to spend ^^ on the initial spell.
  8. Thanks
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Noahjam325 in Genesys Talents Expanded   
    Some talents I came up with:
     
    Illusionist
    Tier: 2
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast. Decrease the difficulty of the spell by one to manifest the effects as an illusion rather than their normal effects. Checks to disbelieve your illusions are made against the Magic skill you used to create the effect.
    Intense Concentration
    Tier: 1
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: Yes
    Spells you concentrate on require an additional Threat to break concentration per rank of Intense Concentration. (RAWR this requires one T to negate a maneuver)
    Master Illusionist
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Illusionist Additional Effect, you may spend a Story Point to increase the number or size of the effect(s) you manifest. (Not sure how to clarify this so it's less vague)
    Persistent Spell
    Tier: 3
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    Gain a new Additional Effect you may add to any spell you cast that allows for concentration. Increase the difficulty of the spell by two to change the concentration of the spell to an Incidental on your next turn, instead of a maneuver. You may spend ^^ to extend this benefit for an additional round for each ^^ spent.
    Persistent Spell (Improved)
    Tier: 4
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    The Persistent Spell Additional Effect only raises the difficulty of the spell by one.
    Persistent Spell (Supreme)
    Tier: 5
    Activation: Passive
    Ranked: No
    When you cast a spell with the Persistent Spell Additional Effect, you may spend 2 strain as an Incidental on your turn to maintain concentration without having had to spend ^^ on the initial spell.
  9. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from ZorinIchiona in Simplified Adversaries   
    I like this a lot!
  10. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from IndianaWalsh in Simplified Adversaries   
    I like this a lot!
  11. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from ZorinIchiona in Let's make "spells"   
    I used some of what others have already written as a baseline to write my own version of Enchantment. How does this look?
    Enchantment
    Concentration: Yes
    Skills: Arcana, Primal
    Select a single creature or minion group within Short range and make an Easy (d) Magic check. If successful, the target is filled with a specific emotion or sensation of your choice, such as anger, attraction, calm, disgust, fear, friendliness, or peace. All social checks the target makes are either upgraded or downgraded once to reflect this altered mental state.
    After the spell ends, the target is aware that they were feeling or behaving unusally.
    Additional Effects
    +d    Additional Target: May select additional targets equal to your ranks in Knowledge. May spend aa to select additional targets equal to your ranks in Knowledge for each     aa spent.
    +d    Easy Feeling: After the spell's effects end, the target no longer is suspicious of their emotional state or actions.
    +dd    Suggestion: Your target takes a suggested action or maneuver associated with the emotion you have instilled in them, such as attacking someone in anger, hitting on     someone they are attracted to, calmy taking a rest, disgusted avoiding someone or something, running away from something in fear, offering assistance to someone     they feel friendly toward, or attempting a peaceful resolution to a conflict. You may offer a suggestion each round as part of maintaining concentration on the spell.
    +dd    Forgetfulness: The target has no recollection of what transpired while under the effects of the spell.
    +ddd    Charm: The target feels particularly friendly to the caster, or a single target the caster designates, doing anything they would normally do for a dear friend.
    +ddd    Dominate: The target obeys all commands of the caster, even those contrary to its nature. The target may attempt a Discipline vs Discipline check as an action on their     turn in order to break free of this mental control, receiving a number of b on their check if your commands have been agaisnt their nature. This cannot be combined with the Additional Target effect.
     
    I'm not sure Charm and Suggestion are different enough to warrant having the two separate effects. It could mean reversing their difficulty, where Charm provides the friendly feeling, but you have little control over what they do: "Help me out" could result in a wide variety of actual actions. While Suggestion could be a bit more specific in what you're trying to get them to do?
    I was thinking Dominate should be dddd, but I wanted it to be able to combine with Easy Feeling. It would be nice to allow it to combine with Forgetfulness also, but maybe that's something that should only be doable with an implement or talent reducing difficulty for this?
    I feel like this does a fair job of not trampling on the other spells in what it is doing and trying to do. The upgrade/downgrade on social skills is a little bit like what Augment and Curse do, but a) more specific, b) more vague, c) doesn't affect combat rolls, or rolls critical to survival (like resisting spells or hazards), and d) is on the more narrative end of the spectrum as far as spells are concerned, which seems appropriate.
     
     
     
  12. Thanks
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Rebelarch86 in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  13. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Rebelarch86 in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
     
     
    So, I checked my bookshelf...Aftermath is the book I was referring to, and is absolutely unreadable. I have, literally (pun intended) never attempted to read a book that is so poorly written that I could not get past page 10. The choppy, comic book scene-setting style is atrocious when used for more than a line or two here and there.
    You can't gate relevant information behind that garbage and then hold it up as proof that the new series has more substance or setting than can be found in the films alone.
     
    As for the argument that the political situation is relevant only to setting-conscious fans...that may be true, but here's the problem. Either the film is designed to build upon the earlier movies, or it's built to stand on its own. If it's the former, then it has to explain why we are essentially in the same situation as we found ourselves at the beginning of A New Hope despite 30 years passing, and all of the events through the end of Return of the Jedi having transpired, and if it's the latter, then we need to know more about the relationship between Han Solo and his son, and why Kylo Ren is the miserable bastard he is now, in order for the scene between the two of them to hold enough weight for the viewer. That scene is predicated on the existing nostalgia and love for Han Solo: we don't get enough information in the movie for it to have the gravity, the emotional impact, that it is clearly meant to have without assuming the viewer is carrying Star Wars baggage already. Similarly, the absence (or even just the notion) of Luke Skywalker requires the viewer to be familiar with the original trilogy, The Force Awakens does basically nothing to explain who this guy is, or why he's so **** important that these warring rival factions are expending so much time and energy looking for him.
     
    So, if we have to know who Luke is, and we have to have an existing love for Han (and Chewie--there are several jokes in the movie that work only if you are already familiar with these characters), and, to a lesser degree already revere Leia...then how do you deal with a movie whose entire premise says, "Yeah, I know the Rebellion essentially won their war against the psuedo-Nazi Empire at the end of the last movie thirty years ago, but this movie is going to revolve around a Rebellion fighting psuedo-Nazis who are almost entirely indistinguishable from the Empire with zero explanation as to why the only apparent change in the universe over 30 years is that it's actually rolled back 34 or 35 years, to before the Rebellion succeeded."
     
    That's my problem with TFA: we don't get enough information to make the things that are unique to the film at all relevant or impactful on their own, and we get no explanation as to why we're in the mess we find ourselves in.
     
    For TLJ, it just repeats huge chunks of The Empire Strikes Back, and fails to build on any of the stuff the first film failed to deliver. For the last year, every person I've brought up my issues with TFA with has said, "It's part of a trilogy, they had to save it for the next movie," and yet, the next movie does almost nothing to help the first. Sure, we get some explanation as to why Kylo and Luke had a falling out, but there's none that explains how or why Snoke got involved, or why Kylo was going dark in the first place, and, again, we are shown Kylo being torn between his rage and his remaining attachment to his mother, but in only the most tenuous fashion, but without any explanation as to what happened between him and his parents. Is his rage justified? Is it just a whiny brat rebelling against his parents in an especially homicidal fashion?
    TLJ doesn't give us much more for Rey's character, either--she's so one dimensional: she wants to find her parents, or her heritage, and she repeats the line that the galaxy needs Luke, as if she is no more than the recording of Leia beseeching Obi Wan so long ago. Eventually we're shown glimmers of her struggle to make sense of her powers, and find her place, but they're just that; glimpses. Then everyone else is flat, or pointless.
     
    Ultimately, probably the single biggest problem with both movies, even beyond the aforementioned issues, is that the films are a pile of action scenes stacked on top of each other, eschewing the pacing and development, and memorable dialogue from the original trilogy. There's so little interpersonal time spent in these films. Everyone is so separated, and every scene just leads into another overwrought action scene. And these weren't even that good. The prequel trilogy was fairly terrible, but at least I can be thoroughly satisfied watching a video compilation of all the lightsaber duels stitched together and set to Duel of the Fates, but none of the scenes in either of these movies really came up to even that level. The only scene I really liked in TLJ was when Luke projects himself to **** with Kylo, and even that they dropped the ball on--Luke embarrassed the little **** in front of all his men, but there's no moment where we see the impact of that, and Luke's jibe that he'll see Kylo around loses it's punch when he dissipates into the Force immediately after. So, all his angst and anguish over two movies comes down to, essentially, playing a practical joke on the bastard who betrayed him and murdered his best friend (by the way, Luke gets informed of this and then we don't even get to see his reaction! And he basically never touches back on this loss, or wound, again), and feels satisfied enough to become one with the Force.
     
    ******* awful.
  14. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from atruefool in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  15. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Ogrebear in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    We don't know who Snoke is, where he's from, how he (founded?) this new organization, why he cares about Luke, or how he got his grips on Ben Solo.
    Tarkin is supposed to be a cog near the top of an evil empire, and fills that role. He isn't the leader, or founder, and doesn't express desires that leave one feeling puzzled. He's an arm of the evil government, analogous in some ways to Nazi Germany, is ruthless, and known to the hero (Leia clearly knows enough about him to recognize and despise him at their first meeting), and they have some back-and-forth dialogue.
    The Emperor is explained as having seized control of the government by dissolving the Senate (how, we don't know, but we know he did it, and is now in power of the already-established government--he committed a coop). He becomes impressive, because he cows Darth Vader, who was the most powerful, most evil, character in the films, which lends the Emperor some credence ("Who is this guy that commands DV?!"), and he's mysterious. When we finally meet him, he remains somewhat mysterious, cowled and seated as he is, but reveals to us some of what we need to know: he is also a Force user, Darth Vader, mega-badass, is his apprentice.
    Snoke is mentioned a bit, but no one really talks about where he's from, how he came to power, how this organization of his has risen so swiftly, etc... No one really seems to fear him, or speak as though his wrath or presence is momentous, and his lapdog throws temper-tantrums. Kylo is faaar less impressive than Vader. So, Snoke gets less cred through association than the Emperor does, and is mysterious in all the wrong ways, because the answers to the questions about him and the FO are kind of central to what the **** is going on in the two movies.
  16. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Ogrebear in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  17. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Ogrebear in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
     
     
    So, I checked my bookshelf...Aftermath is the book I was referring to, and is absolutely unreadable. I have, literally (pun intended) never attempted to read a book that is so poorly written that I could not get past page 10. The choppy, comic book scene-setting style is atrocious when used for more than a line or two here and there.
    You can't gate relevant information behind that garbage and then hold it up as proof that the new series has more substance or setting than can be found in the films alone.
     
    As for the argument that the political situation is relevant only to setting-conscious fans...that may be true, but here's the problem. Either the film is designed to build upon the earlier movies, or it's built to stand on its own. If it's the former, then it has to explain why we are essentially in the same situation as we found ourselves at the beginning of A New Hope despite 30 years passing, and all of the events through the end of Return of the Jedi having transpired, and if it's the latter, then we need to know more about the relationship between Han Solo and his son, and why Kylo Ren is the miserable bastard he is now, in order for the scene between the two of them to hold enough weight for the viewer. That scene is predicated on the existing nostalgia and love for Han Solo: we don't get enough information in the movie for it to have the gravity, the emotional impact, that it is clearly meant to have without assuming the viewer is carrying Star Wars baggage already. Similarly, the absence (or even just the notion) of Luke Skywalker requires the viewer to be familiar with the original trilogy, The Force Awakens does basically nothing to explain who this guy is, or why he's so **** important that these warring rival factions are expending so much time and energy looking for him.
     
    So, if we have to know who Luke is, and we have to have an existing love for Han (and Chewie--there are several jokes in the movie that work only if you are already familiar with these characters), and, to a lesser degree already revere Leia...then how do you deal with a movie whose entire premise says, "Yeah, I know the Rebellion essentially won their war against the psuedo-Nazi Empire at the end of the last movie thirty years ago, but this movie is going to revolve around a Rebellion fighting psuedo-Nazis who are almost entirely indistinguishable from the Empire with zero explanation as to why the only apparent change in the universe over 30 years is that it's actually rolled back 34 or 35 years, to before the Rebellion succeeded."
     
    That's my problem with TFA: we don't get enough information to make the things that are unique to the film at all relevant or impactful on their own, and we get no explanation as to why we're in the mess we find ourselves in.
     
    For TLJ, it just repeats huge chunks of The Empire Strikes Back, and fails to build on any of the stuff the first film failed to deliver. For the last year, every person I've brought up my issues with TFA with has said, "It's part of a trilogy, they had to save it for the next movie," and yet, the next movie does almost nothing to help the first. Sure, we get some explanation as to why Kylo and Luke had a falling out, but there's none that explains how or why Snoke got involved, or why Kylo was going dark in the first place, and, again, we are shown Kylo being torn between his rage and his remaining attachment to his mother, but in only the most tenuous fashion, but without any explanation as to what happened between him and his parents. Is his rage justified? Is it just a whiny brat rebelling against his parents in an especially homicidal fashion?
    TLJ doesn't give us much more for Rey's character, either--she's so one dimensional: she wants to find her parents, or her heritage, and she repeats the line that the galaxy needs Luke, as if she is no more than the recording of Leia beseeching Obi Wan so long ago. Eventually we're shown glimmers of her struggle to make sense of her powers, and find her place, but they're just that; glimpses. Then everyone else is flat, or pointless.
     
    Ultimately, probably the single biggest problem with both movies, even beyond the aforementioned issues, is that the films are a pile of action scenes stacked on top of each other, eschewing the pacing and development, and memorable dialogue from the original trilogy. There's so little interpersonal time spent in these films. Everyone is so separated, and every scene just leads into another overwrought action scene. And these weren't even that good. The prequel trilogy was fairly terrible, but at least I can be thoroughly satisfied watching a video compilation of all the lightsaber duels stitched together and set to Duel of the Fates, but none of the scenes in either of these movies really came up to even that level. The only scene I really liked in TLJ was when Luke projects himself to **** with Kylo, and even that they dropped the ball on--Luke embarrassed the little **** in front of all his men, but there's no moment where we see the impact of that, and Luke's jibe that he'll see Kylo around loses it's punch when he dissipates into the Force immediately after. So, all his angst and anguish over two movies comes down to, essentially, playing a practical joke on the bastard who betrayed him and murdered his best friend (by the way, Luke gets informed of this and then we don't even get to see his reaction! And he basically never touches back on this loss, or wound, again), and feels satisfied enough to become one with the Force.
     
    ******* awful.
  18. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Ogrebear in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    I tried reading one of the books--can't recall which right now--and it was absolutely unreadable. I got 10 pages in and have never opened it again. 
     
    The movies simply don't stand on their own: we're missing critical information to understand what is happening in the galaxy and why. So little of TFA and TLJ make sense. 
  19. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Dayham in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  20. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from The Imperator in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  21. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from copperbell in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
     
     
    So, I checked my bookshelf...Aftermath is the book I was referring to, and is absolutely unreadable. I have, literally (pun intended) never attempted to read a book that is so poorly written that I could not get past page 10. The choppy, comic book scene-setting style is atrocious when used for more than a line or two here and there.
    You can't gate relevant information behind that garbage and then hold it up as proof that the new series has more substance or setting than can be found in the films alone.
     
    As for the argument that the political situation is relevant only to setting-conscious fans...that may be true, but here's the problem. Either the film is designed to build upon the earlier movies, or it's built to stand on its own. If it's the former, then it has to explain why we are essentially in the same situation as we found ourselves at the beginning of A New Hope despite 30 years passing, and all of the events through the end of Return of the Jedi having transpired, and if it's the latter, then we need to know more about the relationship between Han Solo and his son, and why Kylo Ren is the miserable bastard he is now, in order for the scene between the two of them to hold enough weight for the viewer. That scene is predicated on the existing nostalgia and love for Han Solo: we don't get enough information in the movie for it to have the gravity, the emotional impact, that it is clearly meant to have without assuming the viewer is carrying Star Wars baggage already. Similarly, the absence (or even just the notion) of Luke Skywalker requires the viewer to be familiar with the original trilogy, The Force Awakens does basically nothing to explain who this guy is, or why he's so **** important that these warring rival factions are expending so much time and energy looking for him.
     
    So, if we have to know who Luke is, and we have to have an existing love for Han (and Chewie--there are several jokes in the movie that work only if you are already familiar with these characters), and, to a lesser degree already revere Leia...then how do you deal with a movie whose entire premise says, "Yeah, I know the Rebellion essentially won their war against the psuedo-Nazi Empire at the end of the last movie thirty years ago, but this movie is going to revolve around a Rebellion fighting psuedo-Nazis who are almost entirely indistinguishable from the Empire with zero explanation as to why the only apparent change in the universe over 30 years is that it's actually rolled back 34 or 35 years, to before the Rebellion succeeded."
     
    That's my problem with TFA: we don't get enough information to make the things that are unique to the film at all relevant or impactful on their own, and we get no explanation as to why we're in the mess we find ourselves in.
     
    For TLJ, it just repeats huge chunks of The Empire Strikes Back, and fails to build on any of the stuff the first film failed to deliver. For the last year, every person I've brought up my issues with TFA with has said, "It's part of a trilogy, they had to save it for the next movie," and yet, the next movie does almost nothing to help the first. Sure, we get some explanation as to why Kylo and Luke had a falling out, but there's none that explains how or why Snoke got involved, or why Kylo was going dark in the first place, and, again, we are shown Kylo being torn between his rage and his remaining attachment to his mother, but in only the most tenuous fashion, but without any explanation as to what happened between him and his parents. Is his rage justified? Is it just a whiny brat rebelling against his parents in an especially homicidal fashion?
    TLJ doesn't give us much more for Rey's character, either--she's so one dimensional: she wants to find her parents, or her heritage, and she repeats the line that the galaxy needs Luke, as if she is no more than the recording of Leia beseeching Obi Wan so long ago. Eventually we're shown glimmers of her struggle to make sense of her powers, and find her place, but they're just that; glimpses. Then everyone else is flat, or pointless.
     
    Ultimately, probably the single biggest problem with both movies, even beyond the aforementioned issues, is that the films are a pile of action scenes stacked on top of each other, eschewing the pacing and development, and memorable dialogue from the original trilogy. There's so little interpersonal time spent in these films. Everyone is so separated, and every scene just leads into another overwrought action scene. And these weren't even that good. The prequel trilogy was fairly terrible, but at least I can be thoroughly satisfied watching a video compilation of all the lightsaber duels stitched together and set to Duel of the Fates, but none of the scenes in either of these movies really came up to even that level. The only scene I really liked in TLJ was when Luke projects himself to **** with Kylo, and even that they dropped the ball on--Luke embarrassed the little **** in front of all his men, but there's no moment where we see the impact of that, and Luke's jibe that he'll see Kylo around loses it's punch when he dissipates into the Force immediately after. So, all his angst and anguish over two movies comes down to, essentially, playing a practical joke on the bastard who betrayed him and murdered his best friend (by the way, Luke gets informed of this and then we don't even get to see his reaction! And he basically never touches back on this loss, or wound, again), and feels satisfied enough to become one with the Force.
     
    ******* awful.
  22. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from DurosSpacer in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
  23. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from DurosSpacer in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
    ****MAJOR SPOILERS*****
     
     
    So, I checked my bookshelf...Aftermath is the book I was referring to, and is absolutely unreadable. I have, literally (pun intended) never attempted to read a book that is so poorly written that I could not get past page 10. The choppy, comic book scene-setting style is atrocious when used for more than a line or two here and there.
    You can't gate relevant information behind that garbage and then hold it up as proof that the new series has more substance or setting than can be found in the films alone.
     
    As for the argument that the political situation is relevant only to setting-conscious fans...that may be true, but here's the problem. Either the film is designed to build upon the earlier movies, or it's built to stand on its own. If it's the former, then it has to explain why we are essentially in the same situation as we found ourselves at the beginning of A New Hope despite 30 years passing, and all of the events through the end of Return of the Jedi having transpired, and if it's the latter, then we need to know more about the relationship between Han Solo and his son, and why Kylo Ren is the miserable bastard he is now, in order for the scene between the two of them to hold enough weight for the viewer. That scene is predicated on the existing nostalgia and love for Han Solo: we don't get enough information in the movie for it to have the gravity, the emotional impact, that it is clearly meant to have without assuming the viewer is carrying Star Wars baggage already. Similarly, the absence (or even just the notion) of Luke Skywalker requires the viewer to be familiar with the original trilogy, The Force Awakens does basically nothing to explain who this guy is, or why he's so **** important that these warring rival factions are expending so much time and energy looking for him.
     
    So, if we have to know who Luke is, and we have to have an existing love for Han (and Chewie--there are several jokes in the movie that work only if you are already familiar with these characters), and, to a lesser degree already revere Leia...then how do you deal with a movie whose entire premise says, "Yeah, I know the Rebellion essentially won their war against the psuedo-Nazi Empire at the end of the last movie thirty years ago, but this movie is going to revolve around a Rebellion fighting psuedo-Nazis who are almost entirely indistinguishable from the Empire with zero explanation as to why the only apparent change in the universe over 30 years is that it's actually rolled back 34 or 35 years, to before the Rebellion succeeded."
     
    That's my problem with TFA: we don't get enough information to make the things that are unique to the film at all relevant or impactful on their own, and we get no explanation as to why we're in the mess we find ourselves in.
     
    For TLJ, it just repeats huge chunks of The Empire Strikes Back, and fails to build on any of the stuff the first film failed to deliver. For the last year, every person I've brought up my issues with TFA with has said, "It's part of a trilogy, they had to save it for the next movie," and yet, the next movie does almost nothing to help the first. Sure, we get some explanation as to why Kylo and Luke had a falling out, but there's none that explains how or why Snoke got involved, or why Kylo was going dark in the first place, and, again, we are shown Kylo being torn between his rage and his remaining attachment to his mother, but in only the most tenuous fashion, but without any explanation as to what happened between him and his parents. Is his rage justified? Is it just a whiny brat rebelling against his parents in an especially homicidal fashion?
    TLJ doesn't give us much more for Rey's character, either--she's so one dimensional: she wants to find her parents, or her heritage, and she repeats the line that the galaxy needs Luke, as if she is no more than the recording of Leia beseeching Obi Wan so long ago. Eventually we're shown glimmers of her struggle to make sense of her powers, and find her place, but they're just that; glimpses. Then everyone else is flat, or pointless.
     
    Ultimately, probably the single biggest problem with both movies, even beyond the aforementioned issues, is that the films are a pile of action scenes stacked on top of each other, eschewing the pacing and development, and memorable dialogue from the original trilogy. There's so little interpersonal time spent in these films. Everyone is so separated, and every scene just leads into another overwrought action scene. And these weren't even that good. The prequel trilogy was fairly terrible, but at least I can be thoroughly satisfied watching a video compilation of all the lightsaber duels stitched together and set to Duel of the Fates, but none of the scenes in either of these movies really came up to even that level. The only scene I really liked in TLJ was when Luke projects himself to **** with Kylo, and even that they dropped the ball on--Luke embarrassed the little **** in front of all his men, but there's no moment where we see the impact of that, and Luke's jibe that he'll see Kylo around loses it's punch when he dissipates into the Force immediately after. So, all his angst and anguish over two movies comes down to, essentially, playing a practical joke on the bastard who betrayed him and murdered his best friend (by the way, Luke gets informed of this and then we don't even get to see his reaction! And he basically never touches back on this loss, or wound, again), and feels satisfied enough to become one with the Force.
     
    ******* awful.
  24. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from DurosSpacer in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    I tried reading one of the books--can't recall which right now--and it was absolutely unreadable. I got 10 pages in and have never opened it again. 
     
    The movies simply don't stand on their own: we're missing critical information to understand what is happening in the galaxy and why. So little of TFA and TLJ make sense. 
  25. Like
    yeti1069 got a reaction from Yaccarus in The Big Issue with Canon (Minor Spoilers)   
    Compare:
    Episode IV: A NEW HOPE
    "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. We are given an a brief explanation of the state of the galaxy.
    During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.  This tells us what happened right before the movie begins, and...
    Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy...." ...why the initial scene and characters are important.
    Episode V: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    "It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy. Update on what has been going on between movies.
    Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.
    The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space...." The Empire is looking for the rebels, which leads us to the beginning of the film.
     
    To:
    Episode VII: THE FORCE AWAKENS
    "Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed. This doesn't really tell us what the state of the galaxy is--just that some new enemy has arisen from the ashes of the old, and that, for some reason, Luke is missing. It also tells us he is the last Jedi, but not why, or why that's relevant, or why the First Order cares.
    With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Who is the Republic? Presumably, it is the governing body formed after Return of the Jedi, but if it's a governing body, why does it need to support a resistance, rather than field an army? A "resistance" is "an underground organization composed of groups of private individuals working as an opposition force in a conquered country to overthrow the occupying power, usually by acts of sabotage, guerrilla warfare, etc..." Why is a General leading an underground group? How is the First Order an occupying power? This may seem irrelevant, but it doesn't make much sense on its own, and makes even less sense when viewed with the knowledge that the Rebels defeated The Empire in the last movie. And this crawl clearly assumes you've seen the previous films, because it requires you to know who Luke Skywalker is, and that he is important.
    Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts...." This whole crawl, while dallying with galactic politics, really feels like it is leading up to a movie that will be focused on Luke and Leia, and should deal with some interpersonal drama...then the movie just doesn't.
    Episode VIII: THE LAST JEDI
    "The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. This happened, like, a day ago, right? Rey's first scene picks up just a few moments from where the last film ended. How much time has passed that they're mobilizing to seize control of the galaxy?
    Only General Leia Organa's band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight. Again, a rising tyranny isn't typically opposed by a resistance--the resistance comes after your territory has been taken over.
    But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...." This kind of skips the first part of Empire Strikes Back--the bad guys have already discovered the rebel base. Compare this all to the crawl for ESB: in that, there is mention of the rebels scoring a win in destroying the Death Star, but now are facing a counterattack by the Empire, whereas here, there's no mention of the rebels having scored any sort of victory.
    I suppose the core of the problem with the new movies is that they rush from one thing to the next. They breeze by whatever has happened in the galaxy over the last 20+ years, the First Order goes from being unknown (to the viewer) to being the dominant military force in the galaxy in the first couple of seconds of text, basically. The government reads like it's already written-off before the movie begins. Rey becomes an ace Jedi with even less training than Luke had in ANH. Characters jump back and forth across the galaxy in minutes, or hours, rather than hours or days. In the new films, there's hardly any down time, or character development, or exploration. We don't get longer, stiller, quieter shots, really--everything is action, or vapid dialogue, or more action.
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