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Eyeless1

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  1. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from bleezy in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    To say that the SSD would have to roll 100 dice is...not right. I mean how many dice does a CR 90 throw? 2? 3? And the Vic throws 6. Does that mean that a Vic only have x2 or x3 the fire power of a corvette? I dont think so, but correct me if im wrong. Its a relative scale guys.
    Also, do we know the measurements of the ISD? IMHO, if its the size of the x wing transport, then if the SSD was the size of the x wing corvette, even an inch or two longer, that would work for me. And that would mean a manageable length.
  2. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from NewTroski in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    I would to say that I totally called the ISD throwing 8 dice out its front arc, somewhere near the beginning of this thread.
     
    Now, the SSD doesnt need to throw 300 dice. that would be absurd, and yeah, its got alot of guns, but the ISD only throws 8 dice but have many more guns than the corvette with throws 3. So all the SSD has to do is throw the most dice. 
    Im thinking 10 or so, of various colors like the ISD. There are few ships in this game that could survive 10 dice getting thrown at them, which is how any ship would be if the SSD went up against it. Like I said, it doesnt have to do hundreds of things in order to match the fluff. All it has to do is do more than any other ship.
     
    SO off the top of my head, 
     
    Attack
    Front-10 dice of various colors
    Sides-6 or so. Make its broadside as bad as a MC80 broadside. But its still the front that deals the most damage.
    Rear-2
     
    Shields
    Front - 6
    Sides - 4
    Rear - 2
    Bridge deflector shields-1
     
    15 Hull, maybe less?
     
    2 Redirect tokens
    1 Brace token
    1 Contain token
     
    Command-5 (because its huge and the commander of such a large ship would have alot to do, plus it would react much slower than other ships)
    Squadron-5 (to go along with the whole "its a giant carrier" thing)
    Engineering-5 (not 6, cuz being able to repair 2 damage a turn would be absurd)
     
    Cost it around 200-250 points, depending on how much the ISD costs. This would need balancing of course.
  3. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to Deathseed in So how would you play against my opponent   
    I would admit that you were in error to start an insurrection against a legitimate government and beg for mercy from the Imperial courts.
  4. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Shadow2Lead in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    But in armada an ISD is not x10 larger than a CR90 because the scale is relative, so yes ill keep ignoring any one who says an SSD model has to be gigantic. As long as its the biggest thing on the table, but still a manageable size, im fine with that.
    And as for "epic" games taking several hours. X wing is the only miniature game i know that can be played within an hour. Most of the others usually go much longer. I wouldnt mind a 4 hour game of armada.
  5. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Thalomen in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    This here is a productive argument.
    I have spent 7 years in the US Marines, so i know big guns and what they are capable of.
    When i argue about accuracy. I know that missles are the most accurate. Even now we can shoot a missile from hundreds of miles away and have it fly through a window to kill everybody in a given room, but not hurt anybody next door. But laser bolts are different.
    A tank turret can do a 360 in about 8 secs. Its fast. But when youre shooting at a target 2000m awayand the target is moving. Its hard to hit. And we have technology to track and target and stuff. It works. But it cant account for crazy things people do.
    Ships are always moving, for the most part, in naval battles. Likewise if i was a cpt of a Neb B or something up against a SSD, I would 1) try and hyperspace away only to realize there are Interdictors nearby 2)use superior manuvering to out run the SSDs guns. This does not mean, same speed, same heading. This means slowing and speeding up and loop de loops and all that jazz.
    This means more work for the gunnery crews/computer which give me more time to get away. Yeah modern artillery guns can reliable hit an area target, not so much a point target. But if you have a shell that leaves a 100ft crater, you only need to hit 99ft away (speaking theoretically here). Yes the SSD has a lot of guns. But they wouldnt be aimed at the exact same point, but rather a ship sized area. Like I said, if you fire 100,000 laser bolts you will hit something. But I question the point target accuracy of something so large. Even with advanced technology.
    ISDs carry quite alot of fighters too, but foghter rules are separate. This is mostly to keep things simple. If rules get to complicated it CAN be bad. But if you would care to give a sample of rules it could possibly have, which fit in armada, I'd give you feed back.
    Yes the CR 90 is over powered when compared to everything else. But that wont change. I do like your idea or escorts and carriers and such, but its also to late to change that. Its a neat idea. But we cant redesign the game around the SSD. BUT we can try and use the armada system to find a working compromise for the SSD. I think the system allows for a SSD to fit in for reasons i and others have said
  6. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from spacemonkeymafia in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    So basically we will argue about it until they release a model for it. Cool
  7. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Jo Jo in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    So basically we will argue about it until they release a model for it. Cool
  8. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to jme in Phantoms just got nerfed, hardcore   
    Doesn't this also make it more difficult to block a Phantom's decloak, as well?  Like, wouldn't I have to be blocking his possible decloak positions the turn before, since my low PS ships won't get to move before the Phantom decloaks?
  9. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from CobaltWraith in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    So basically we will argue about it until they release a model for it. Cool
  10. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from CobaltWraith in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    But using your argument, an ISD isnt an ISD unless its x10 a Cr 90. How come nobody is complaining of the lack of scale there? A ISD has way more fire power than a corvette, but i highly doubt that it will throw more than 10 dice.
  11. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from gredert in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    I agree with you. Its not the same thing, and dont compare an x wing ISD to the x wing CR 90. The base scale is set to the xwing, not the corvette. So an ISD in xwing is wanting something that x100s bigger than an x wing, not x10 bigger tgan the corvette.Now, they added the corvette to x wing, which is roughly x10 a x wing.
    Having a SSD in armada would be much easier than an ISD in x wing.
    Yes they would have to scale it down. But does that matter as long as it is the biggest thuthing on the table?
  12. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Icareane in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    Ill tackle the balance issue then.
     
    So what we see on screen (and thus actually cannon) is a few laser blasts from its guns, and then an A-wing crashes into the bridge which effectively destroys it. Not to powerful when it comes up against plot armor if you ask me.
     
    But then there is everything else about it thats not in the movie. Seeing as I havent read any books, but have played quite a few PC games (like Empire at War) I cant say Im an expert, but Ill throw in my two cents, combined with a lot of wookiepedia browsing. 
     
    The EU has lots of stuff, just saying I know its there. Ive read wookiepedia many a time when Im bored and the SSD is just so glorious....
     
    Realistically, the SSD is huge so it could take quite a few hits before you even dented its combat effeciency. Likewise it has so many guns it can certainly dish out punishment. But not all those guns can be pointed the exact same direction. However, thanks to whoever designed the SDs, the wedge shape lets you focus most of your guns forward, but not every single one. And when your ship is 19km long, that would just make it harder to focus guns accurately on a single spot. Especially if youre shooting guns at the back of the SSD to a target that is now a great many Kms away. Yes technology gives you more accuracy, missiles would be more accurate because they arent plain energy slugs, but they are range limited. Yeah space=no friction=missiles can go further. But once they are out of fuel, at whatever point that is, you cant control them. As for laser bolts, nothing you can do after its left the cannon. Unless youre the Covenant from Halo and can control them magnetically, but I havent heard that kind of technology in Star Wars. Oh, and dont forget, your target would be moving if it was captained by any sane person. And just about every other ship that a SSD would go up agaisnt would be much more manuverable than an SSD. So if anything it needs lots of guns to counter the drawbacks of being so huge. If you throw 100,000 laser bolts down range, youre going to hit something.
     
    Its fighter and secondary ship complement is irrelevant to this discussion because Armada allows you to take your own fighters separate from your ships. And to give the SSD a rule that kept spitting out fighters would make things to complicated.
     
    I will try and put that all into whatever scale FFG is using. Which is erratic. And I dont think anybody has figured it out yet?
     
    So lets start with what we know: The lowly CR90 shoots 3 dice in the front arc. The Tantive IV has 6 guns. A Victory II SD has 180 guns and missile launchers (granted these include light guns), and it shoots 6 dice off the front. So we can see the FFG's scale already has problems. There is no way that 6 guns is only half as effective as 180. And a Vic II is x6 as large as a CR90. 
     
    Already we have a big problem with scale. 
    An ISD is roughly x10 the size of a CR90, but I doubt we will be seeing it throw 30 dice off the front. More like 8 or so, even though it as hundreds of guns. Also, the model is not x10 the sive of the CR 90 model, because RELATIVE SCALE! The ISD is one of the biggest capital ships so its going to have one of the biggest models. How would you know the difference between a Vic and a ISD, because the ISD is bigger(and the bridge towers look different but thats inconsequential to my argument). Yeah its not x2 a Vic, but it is bigger. 
     
    So a SSD has thousands of guns, is 19km long. In Empire at War(pc game for you uninitiated folks) the SSD is massive, has lots of guns and is awesome. But its not x11 of the ISDs in the game, so even then its also scaled down. Its still very powerful and can take on many ships. But, unsupported it will still crumble. It moves very slowing and turns worse than the flying albino space whale so after a ship moves out of its front arc its damage output per target decreases drastically. Also, its very vulnerable to fighter bombers. Yes, in the game it can pump out fighters every 10 seconds, but if you have a large enough fighter force, and plenty of bombers you could take it out and only lose a few ships (target the hangar bay with bombers first, then the shield generators, then everything else).
     
    Granted that is a different game, but it has the same feel as armada. Giant space battles with capital ships (lets be honest to ourselves, none of us got the game so we could do the land battles). I think the SSD in EaW is balanced quite well.
     
    How to put it into Armada? well that would require a few things
     
    1)finding the proper model size. It doesnt have to be x11 a ISD, and sticking to what FFG has done so far it really only needs to be the biggest thing on the table. There have been several discussions as to how big this should be. I think anything more than 20" is getting to big, it just needs to be the biggest thing. But since Armada only lasts 6 turns (or in epic maybe 10 or so who knows) worrying about turning it around shouldnt be to much a problem. They could also make a different movement tool for it tool. I also dont think its neccessary to have a rebel equivalent, but thats another argument
     
    2)play testing rules for it, which I dont have the time for. But off the top of my head... I think its agreed that a volley from a SSD front arc would be enough to destroy most ships single handedly. SO why not have it throw 10 dice so so. Few things would require more dice than that I would think. It doesnt matter that it has 2000 guns if it can destroy a ship by only using 300 of them. Maybe it could get a rule that lets it shoot 3 times. I dont know. Like I said rules for it would require time to make. But my main argument here is that if (in universe) few things can stand up to it then have it throw the most dice, but it doesnt need to throw 100 dice for few things to stand up to it in Armada. Find that sweet spot and bam, you got it. 
     
    Plus with 10 or so dice, defense tokens would really come in handy. When you get it by 6 dice the option to half the damage is good, but when 10 dice are coming at you, halving the damage would be great!
     
    So a relative model size, good reasonable rules, and cost it relative to what it does and bam, you have a SSD for Armada. It can be done.
    I hope I did a good job.
  13. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from NewTroski in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    Ill tackle the balance issue then.
     
    So what we see on screen (and thus actually cannon) is a few laser blasts from its guns, and then an A-wing crashes into the bridge which effectively destroys it. Not to powerful when it comes up against plot armor if you ask me.
     
    But then there is everything else about it thats not in the movie. Seeing as I havent read any books, but have played quite a few PC games (like Empire at War) I cant say Im an expert, but Ill throw in my two cents, combined with a lot of wookiepedia browsing. 
     
    The EU has lots of stuff, just saying I know its there. Ive read wookiepedia many a time when Im bored and the SSD is just so glorious....
     
    Realistically, the SSD is huge so it could take quite a few hits before you even dented its combat effeciency. Likewise it has so many guns it can certainly dish out punishment. But not all those guns can be pointed the exact same direction. However, thanks to whoever designed the SDs, the wedge shape lets you focus most of your guns forward, but not every single one. And when your ship is 19km long, that would just make it harder to focus guns accurately on a single spot. Especially if youre shooting guns at the back of the SSD to a target that is now a great many Kms away. Yes technology gives you more accuracy, missiles would be more accurate because they arent plain energy slugs, but they are range limited. Yeah space=no friction=missiles can go further. But once they are out of fuel, at whatever point that is, you cant control them. As for laser bolts, nothing you can do after its left the cannon. Unless youre the Covenant from Halo and can control them magnetically, but I havent heard that kind of technology in Star Wars. Oh, and dont forget, your target would be moving if it was captained by any sane person. And just about every other ship that a SSD would go up agaisnt would be much more manuverable than an SSD. So if anything it needs lots of guns to counter the drawbacks of being so huge. If you throw 100,000 laser bolts down range, youre going to hit something.
     
    Its fighter and secondary ship complement is irrelevant to this discussion because Armada allows you to take your own fighters separate from your ships. And to give the SSD a rule that kept spitting out fighters would make things to complicated.
     
    I will try and put that all into whatever scale FFG is using. Which is erratic. And I dont think anybody has figured it out yet?
     
    So lets start with what we know: The lowly CR90 shoots 3 dice in the front arc. The Tantive IV has 6 guns. A Victory II SD has 180 guns and missile launchers (granted these include light guns), and it shoots 6 dice off the front. So we can see the FFG's scale already has problems. There is no way that 6 guns is only half as effective as 180. And a Vic II is x6 as large as a CR90. 
     
    Already we have a big problem with scale. 
    An ISD is roughly x10 the size of a CR90, but I doubt we will be seeing it throw 30 dice off the front. More like 8 or so, even though it as hundreds of guns. Also, the model is not x10 the sive of the CR 90 model, because RELATIVE SCALE! The ISD is one of the biggest capital ships so its going to have one of the biggest models. How would you know the difference between a Vic and a ISD, because the ISD is bigger(and the bridge towers look different but thats inconsequential to my argument). Yeah its not x2 a Vic, but it is bigger. 
     
    So a SSD has thousands of guns, is 19km long. In Empire at War(pc game for you uninitiated folks) the SSD is massive, has lots of guns and is awesome. But its not x11 of the ISDs in the game, so even then its also scaled down. Its still very powerful and can take on many ships. But, unsupported it will still crumble. It moves very slowing and turns worse than the flying albino space whale so after a ship moves out of its front arc its damage output per target decreases drastically. Also, its very vulnerable to fighter bombers. Yes, in the game it can pump out fighters every 10 seconds, but if you have a large enough fighter force, and plenty of bombers you could take it out and only lose a few ships (target the hangar bay with bombers first, then the shield generators, then everything else).
     
    Granted that is a different game, but it has the same feel as armada. Giant space battles with capital ships (lets be honest to ourselves, none of us got the game so we could do the land battles). I think the SSD in EaW is balanced quite well.
     
    How to put it into Armada? well that would require a few things
     
    1)finding the proper model size. It doesnt have to be x11 a ISD, and sticking to what FFG has done so far it really only needs to be the biggest thing on the table. There have been several discussions as to how big this should be. I think anything more than 20" is getting to big, it just needs to be the biggest thing. But since Armada only lasts 6 turns (or in epic maybe 10 or so who knows) worrying about turning it around shouldnt be to much a problem. They could also make a different movement tool for it tool. I also dont think its neccessary to have a rebel equivalent, but thats another argument
     
    2)play testing rules for it, which I dont have the time for. But off the top of my head... I think its agreed that a volley from a SSD front arc would be enough to destroy most ships single handedly. SO why not have it throw 10 dice so so. Few things would require more dice than that I would think. It doesnt matter that it has 2000 guns if it can destroy a ship by only using 300 of them. Maybe it could get a rule that lets it shoot 3 times. I dont know. Like I said rules for it would require time to make. But my main argument here is that if (in universe) few things can stand up to it then have it throw the most dice, but it doesnt need to throw 100 dice for few things to stand up to it in Armada. Find that sweet spot and bam, you got it. 
     
    Plus with 10 or so dice, defense tokens would really come in handy. When you get it by 6 dice the option to half the damage is good, but when 10 dice are coming at you, halving the damage would be great!
     
    So a relative model size, good reasonable rules, and cost it relative to what it does and bam, you have a SSD for Armada. It can be done.
    I hope I did a good job.
  14. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from horsepire in Popularity   
    I call GW the Nefarious Drug Dealer. I love warhammer, and I cant stop playing...but I hate GW so much....
  15. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Jut in Miniature Market Shipments   
    Got my shipping notification from MMX woot woot!
  16. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to Beatty in Official; Armada Wave 1 set for late April/ early May   
    Wait, are you refering to the Deep Throat reference? If so that's a Nixon's Watergate reference.
  17. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to R22 in Official; Armada Wave 1 set for late April/ early May   
    We need Michael H.... (Sorry, the surname escapes me) who writes for the most loyal name in news to do an article on this Star Wars "Deep Throat" we seem to have.
  18. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from thechuckfrank in HELP: New To RPGs and have to GM for Pathfinder Afficionados   
    Set up a timeline of things that happen. And create location agnostic events-events that could happen anywhere and arent fixed to specific location.  Then just let the players do whatever they want. You can herd them in the direction you want by blocking roads with more zombies they can fight and such.
  19. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Vlad3theImpaler in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    But in armada an ISD is not x10 larger than a CR90 because the scale is relative, so yes ill keep ignoring any one who says an SSD model has to be gigantic. As long as its the biggest thing on the table, but still a manageable size, im fine with that.
    And as for "epic" games taking several hours. X wing is the only miniature game i know that can be played within an hour. Most of the others usually go much longer. I wouldnt mind a 4 hour game of armada.
  20. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Commander Kahlain in And with a week to go, the forum has gone bat crap crazy!!!!   
    The SSD will come!
    This thread has just been "Tarkin Doctrinated"
  21. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to lordreaven448 in X-Wing style possible 3rd faction?   
    *Runs into conversation*
     
    CIS AS THIRD FACTION!
     
    *Runs out of conversation before people start complaining about the prequels*
  22. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from arctica2010 in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    I love large games. 1000 points would be awesome!
    Whenever I play x wing its usually 300 points or more. 
     
    How many points would it be to recreate the Battle of Endor.......?
  23. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Beatty in And with a week to go, the forum has gone bat crap crazy!!!!   
    The SSD will come!
    This thread has just been "Tarkin Doctrinated"
  24. Like
    Eyeless1 got a reaction from Archon Dan in Interdictor; how would it work   
    In the pc game Empire at War, dont interdictors have an ability that messes up missles?
    I think its better to be more complicated rule wise thsn x wing, but bad to be as complicated as 40k
  25. Like
    Eyeless1 reacted to NewTroski in Super Star Destroyer discussion thread   
    I think some people are putting the Executor on a pedestal. There's a lot of EU material that talk about how tough the SSDs are and how many ships they are equivalent to. But all that is questionable - writers take various liberties with base material in order to craft their own take on Star Wars and make an interesting story.

    I see two major objections to the SSD: power-scale and size-scale.

    So lets look at what we know is canon, and the only scene in which an SSD fights: From RotJ, we know that it fights in the fleet action, and that it is important enough to single out as a target, and that when a small Rebel fleet focused their firepower on it, it went down. Based on that, I would say that power-wise it would fit well in a larger scale "Epic Armada" format. The Rebel fleet wasn't huge, but it was still able to focus fire down an SSD, while still being engaged with a much larger fleet and having the DSII taking out some of their most powerful vessels. So it seems to me that it is powerful, but not so powerful that it can't be represented in Armada.

    Next is the size scale. We already know that Armada is on a sliding scale. Most people seem to think of it as a linear relation, but as someone earlier pointed out, the data points we have conform quite nicely to a logarithmic scale, and it also makes more sense when you're talking many orders of magnitude difference in the size of the things being modeled.

    Here is my slightly different take on the size of an actual SSD model in Armada - by starting with the CR90 in X-wing. If we take the CR90 to be roughly 4"x12", giving an area of 48 sq.in. The play area of X-Wing is 36" x 36", for an area of 1296. The CR90 takes up ~3.7% of the total play space. If we reverse that for Armada play space of 36" x 72" = 2592 sq. in., 3.7% of which is 96 sq. in. of area. Now, pick some reasonable lengths, say 15 or 16 inches and we get 15" x 6.4" or 16" x 6". These seem like reasonable numbers to me - yes, this will be a large, expensive piece, but it won't be setting any records for the miniature games market.

    Since we have cleared up the "large base typo", we know that the ISD model is probably between 5 and 6 inches long (129mm ~= 5 inches, plus some overhang), that makes the model of the SSD between two and three times larger than an ISD model. This is pretty much what one would expect when dealing with a logarithmic scale.

    For some people, this is not enough of a size difference. However, I have another idea to alleviate this problem as well - it will require a slightly more beefy structure on the base, but we simply elevate the SSD model more than other models. This creates a forced perspective for someone looking down at the table, and causes the SSD to appear larger in relation to the other ships.

    Hadn't intended for this to be a treatise when I started, but it's out there now, let me know what you think. I can go into more details on what I think the rules for it should be  



     
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